What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

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Post by andrey » 09 May 2008

alladin wrote:Hi. I personally find lots of fascinating and useful points in the Avyakt Murli. As far as sakars go, definitely Bhakti import. However, certain concepts are not exclusively Hindu. They are present in all major religions and appeal to people who still have the need for feeling guilty, low, dirty, ready for marthyrdom, wanting to "surrender, renounce" etc ... The idea that God found us and speaks to us directly and we are the Gopis dancing with Krishna playing the flute, maybe also appealing to some. Good material for a psychotherapist to investigate upon!
There is even this research that Christ did not exist, but is a taking and making from here and there. For example, that he used to be chased to be killed and saved in a basket - it is like the story of Krishna.

For example, also Christmas is something connected with some sun god. The word Easter also means something. "Walking on water" is like the rays of the sun that reflects. There is a whole story i may post some links if interested.

I think that Hindu religion and Bhakti is not one and the same. I don't know exactly the differences and cannot well describe. Maybe religion is more like ideas, values, way of life and Bhakti is just a practice. Like Christianity and in it there is, e.g. fasting, prayer. Or maybe i mistake bakti with pooja.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by jannisder » 09 May 2008

I like any God that says that every man should have one woman. One!!

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by bansy » 09 May 2008

I like any God that says that every man should have one woman. One!!
Is it ever written that one woman can have more than one man ? 8) :P :evil: :biggrin:

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 May 2008

In some areas of Tibetan under Tibetan Buddhism polyandry is practised, usually between brothers, as is easy divorce for women.

It works, they can be happy because of their faith. I should imagine the women are very happy (it always serves to keep a spare one handy in case the first one breaks). It also has a profoundly positive effect on a vulnerable environment as it reduces the birth rate.

As an aside, it is also thought that the original "vestal virgins" and use of the word translated as "virgin" in the Ancient world was not virgin as it is understood now but used for a woman who was in charge of her own life and sexuality and not OWNED and controlled by a man.

The Murli is only wonderful to those that have been conditioned to believe it is god. On the basis of the evidence I have seen, I suspect you could hypnotise any suggestive person to believe the back of a Cornflakes packet was the word of god (see mr green kumaris).

I must try sometime ...

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by andrey » 10 May 2008

Jannisder has said that there are conditions in BK, but where there are no conditions. Even the love of the mother this example of unconditional love if we say to a mother that you child is not, in fact, yours and had been changed in the hospital with another one. She may think a little but and still say OK, it is still my child, but will think a little bit. why is she not having the same love for each and every child in the world, in the same way as for her own+ There is the condition that it has been born through her body. So we all have bodies and there are conditions based on it. Only the bodiless one can be unconditional.

In the bible, also someone said that i now have seen God face to face so my life is guaranteed, secured.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 10 May 2008

ex-l wrote:The Murli is only wonderful to those that have been conditioned to believe it is god. On the basis of the evidence I have seen, I suspect you could hypnotise any suggestive person to believe the back of a Cornflakes packet was the word of god (see mr green Kumaris). I must try sometime ...
I hope ex-I does try. It is not often that I play the part of soothsayer but here goes. Please keep in mind as you read the following that you should read it as if the writer has a lithp and has nothing against cornflakes, cornflake packets, ex-I or :mrgreen:.

In time any temporary benefit (reward of faith in the words written on the back of cornlake packets) would cease, then ex-I would get down to the real work. True he could be distracted by a lot of munching and crunching for a time but sooner or later he would begin to wonder why he was receiving no guidance in building a constructive life for himself. He, in his investigations may even encounter the information that for rats the packet was more much more nutricious than the flakes and try that. No matter how deeply a hypnotic suggestion is planted in the mind it will sooner or later surface and for ex-I I truly hope that it would be sooner rather than later. If this did not happen ex-I would be referred by friends and family to a doctor to be treated for overdose of cardboard.

When the doctor checked this out and gave his diagnosis it would be a great surprise to ex-I, (for how could the word of God when ingested lead to any problem) regardless he would be referred to a psychiatrist. I understand that Cornflakes are available on psychiatric wards so his munching on the word of God could continue for a short while but the shrink would be vigilant and friendly. He would take ex-I aside and say "try yoghurt there is much more culture in it." Ex-I would intuit that that his now best friend (the shrink) was there to help him and he had nothing to lose so he'd decide to try his advice. In a few days he would start to feel much better. Perhaps ex-I would think "the ingesting of yogurt is the true god". His relections would continue, he would even think thoughts about the difference between what inside the packet and what was written on it. Please now drop the lithp.

We are, (those who have encountered Murlis) what is inside the packet, the Murli, what is outside the packet, tells us how we are and what we will become. As the study progresses we become less what we are and more what we will become, this is the Murlis wonder. All kinds of minds examine the Murli, for deep study one must examine oneself as deeply as one does the Murli. If one chooses to not to examine and instead ex-I-amines cornflake packets as spoken through the mouth of :mrgreen: you now know where it may lead.

Happy munching!

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 May 2008

We should be careful or else this topic will descend to the level of the "mr green kumaris" one.

The real question is, should I be remembering the Cornflakes box, which is perishable, or should I be remembering the unlimited, free plastic, giveaway spaceman on the inside my himself? Surely, the answer must be that proper remembrance is to remember both the box and the giveaway spaceman because how could one possibly tell the difference between one free plastic, giveaway spaceman from another free plastic, giveaway spaceman without a box?

The problem is that since the Cornflake box passed its sellby date in 1947 and was composted, Frostie Janki Kripalani replaced it in all centers with pictures of 'Coco Pops' Kripalani and started getting Shreddies with the old recipes without so much as a Cheerios. Her actions provoked the 'Crunchy Nut Cornflakes' to split from the kitchen table starting their own breakfast party and a load of ex-Fruit and Nut Flakes to Ready Brek away. Now you can generally find the Special Jank-K doing VIP service with the Sultana Bran or at interfaith meetings with Quaker Oats.

Make mine Baked Beans because come Destruction, everything else is going to be toast.

On a serious note for jannsider and other newcomers to the BKWSU ... because the Murlis are actually neither that clever, universal or interested - whilst being terribly repetitive - one of the things were told was that the Murlis were only meant for BK Brahmins who had had lots of births in India as Hindus and therefore needed all the subconscious Hindu Bhakti washed out of them by going over all the "Krishna is not God" stuff etc ... endlessly.

Why is not "God" (allegedly) more interesting?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by andrey » 10 May 2008

If God and soul canot be proved in material way with any proof, then how can one also disprove them. In what way?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 May 2008

One does not need to. That is the classic difference between an atheist and an agnostic. See Thomas Henry Huxley, David Hume etc

I think the point jannisder is making, and any reasonably intelligent person would agree is that, to date, the evidence that the focus of the BK worship, the channelled entities they call Shiva or BapDada, is God is far from conclusive or convincing. One might accept even accept that there is mediumship of spirits going on, but it is NOT the mediumship of God. "A god" perhaps but not "the God" as it is presented.

Within agnosticism there are varying degrees of openness and disbelief, e.g. apathetic agnosticism, noncognitivist ignostism etc.
Agnosticism maintains that the nature and attributes of God are beyond the grasp of man's finite and limited mind; those divine attributes transcend human comprehension. The concept of God is just too big a subject for a person to wrap his or her mind around. Humans might apply terms that attempt to characterize god such as, "infinitely perfect", "spiritual", "omnipotent", "eternal", "incomprehensible", "infinite in intellect and will and in every perfection" but, the agnostic would assert, these terms only underscore the inadequacy of our mental equipment to understand so vast, ephemeral and elusive a concept.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by john morgan » 11 May 2008

Faith is not something that another convinces me of. It is something that I create with my own thought.

It may be that certain experiences are influential in the depth of faith that I experience, such is the magic of contact with the BK. The downside of experiencing this, for me, was that there were experiences which completely obliterated my faith too. Faith is positive and doubt is negative, I can consciously choose either. The experiment of living one month with faith then one month with doubt will reveal the contrast. There is also the option of neither having faith nor doubting with which to experiment. It's all a simple matter of conscious choice.

It is said in the Godly Versions that if Krishna spoke the Murli such is his beauty that no one would wish to leave him and the business of the world would stop.

God is invisible, well hidden, and so are we. The knowledge of the Cycle infers that in certain souls the potential of experiencing all qualities exists. It also infers that all qualities can be experienced at the current time. It is the responsibility of each person to create influences in their own lives that have a favourable impact on ourselves, on others and the world. Unless we learn to do this our future is bleak. Some find that study of the Murli greatly aids the creation of elevated thought. Thought is our tool of creation and to use it to the best of our ability may be the reason that we are all here. Thoughts translate themselves into attitudes and actions and create the world in which we live.

There are those who can impress us greatly with their sophisticated learning and thinking though the qualities of simplicity and straightforwardness are priceless. The responsibility, is great perhaps to deal with it in small bites rather than huge mouthfuls is the best way.

From the huge library in the sky, we consciously and deliberately choose those things that serve us. In the human world, if a person that I wish to love me loves me I am happy. The moment I doubt their love, sadness comes. It is the same with Godly love. That there is so much happiness that we can easily access by becoming following the steps to become conscious of Gods inheritance is indisputable. We simply choose only the qualities that can help us in our aim or quest. Realising that thought is the master power is essential for building the scaffolding by which we can scale the heights that surpass our wildest dreams of possibility.

"Though hast annointed my head with oil and my cup runneth over" This is Christian language, could it be Gyan or even better? I've never read the bible, perhaps this is the right time. Certainly it could be a lot more useful than any wallowing in the flotsam and jetsam of the past. :roll:

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 May 2008

I guess you have been out of the BKWSU for a long time as I have. I wonder what makes up the pre-Murli Senior Sister's class these days.

From their published material and service ploys, we can evidence an evolution (or decline from an orthodox BK point of view) in the inclusion of non-BK sourced wisdom. I think both you and I saw this start to happen in the West, although I think it has always happened in the East in a culturally relative manner. What I am talking about is the inclusion and inspiration by "wise words" from other humans, religions ... and, of course, incidental bits of nature that one senior or another has witnessed.

In service, at the intellect of confident and educated BKs, this started gradually as "padding" to make the Knowledge more interest and palatable and to "normalise" BK Gyan e.g. a quote from Gandhi, here; another from the Bhagavad Gita there. But we BKs all knew it was not "the real stuff". What I am raising in the 'Tao of the Traveller' topic, and to some extent the business topics, is that the pendulum appears to have swung right over to the other side and the window dressing, the "Bhakti", becoming the 90%; and the Gyan becoming the 10%.

From my point of view, I think there is wonderful, practical, inspiring truth to be found everywhere. The Tao Te Ching being one such example, you have given us many others. On one hand, it is a shame this is not recognised more and incorporated honestly and openly; but, on the other, to do so would mean the dissolution of BK-ism. From the orthodox point of view, there is a paradox. Every other religion and wise sage is meant to be inspired by BK Gyan at the Confluence Age and then only to an imperfect part. But here we have BK Gyan being inspired by them, individuals are religions which are by the BK definition; Kali Yugi, impure, not leading to enlightenment.

If intellectually starved day after day, and you must remember how continuing to read other "Bhakti" was taboo, then the plain dal and roti of BK Gyan might provide subsistence nourishment, regurgitated as much of it is from elsewhere as Lekhraj Kirpalani picked it up from his reading and newcomers to the Mandli. Again, an intellectual fast might also be good for the mental digestion system but if prolonged for too long will surely lead to malnourishment and stunted growth?

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by jannisder » 26 May 2008

I took care of my BK friend being seriously ill. (Thanks to BKWSU, he had no one else to turn to). In BK terms, I am a Shudra ... Maya even because I am in love ... with him and even trying to get him out of the cult.

The Murli says ..."you have NO ONE except the Father" ... I consider that as a lie!

And ... "people are cheats" ... I see that as an insult.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by arjun » 26 May 2008

sister Jannisder wrote:I took care of my BK friend being seriously ill. (Thanks to BKWSU, he had no one else to turn to).
I appreciate your kindness in taking care of your BK friend when the BKWSU did not care about him.

Such cases happen both in BK and PBK world of Brahmins. When you are doing great service everyone becomes your well wisher, but when you are in dire need of help, it could be possible that you will not get help from the ones you would have expected.

The best method according to my experience is not to have expectations from others. Go on helping others to the extent possible and when you are in need God will certainly help you in some form or the other, not necessarily a BK or a PBK.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by global » 24 Jun 2008

Sister Janisder, that was very honourable of you to look after someone. This IMHO is a true good person.

Yes, all one big family, so try to see them as such. I am not sure how any non-Hindi speaking person can believe 100% the Murlis. You are getting second grade translated information and for those who speak Hindi it is impossible to know that the words you are reading have not been changed or altered to suit the BKs.

We are talking about a long time since Dadi Lekrahj has left. Who even knows if the words coming out of his mouth were even written down correctly.

Many points in the Murli's do not sound, IMHO, like something that a Divine spirit would say but some manipulators trying to use the good hearted souls for their own verbal/mental and sometimes physical abuse.

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Re: What is so wonderful abouth the Murli?

Post by ermine » 25 Jun 2008

Dear sisters and brothers

What did you think about it when you were a BK? What is the best and most important thing to do; to listen or to be connected with the Supreme Soul in meditation in order to achieve a full emptiness and completely full feeling of nothingness? Whether the word is part of materialistically interpreted energy or just effective spiritual tool or trigging instrument to cultivating feelings of soul? Or probably is it illusion regarding to BK or PBK? Murli?

Sorry for unsuitable question.

Yours sincerely

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