Dangerous cult warning signs

DEDICATED to BKs.
For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by jannisder » 06 May 2008

Dangerous Cult Warning Signs
If the spiritual group with which you, or a loved one, are involved is characterized by 7 or more of the following 10 warning signs, it is probably a dangerous cult! You must take corrective action immediately! If you are a member, you must escape! Stop going to the meetings! Leave the compound! If your loved one is a member, you must do everything in your power to get your loved one out of the cult!

THE WARNING SIGNS:
  • The spiritual group claims to have received special instructions from one or more "messengers from the sky."

    The spiritual group uses a special set of rules that you must obey or be cast out.

    The spiritual group promises eternal life in a paradise if you obey its set of rules, and threatens eternal suffering if you do not obey its set of rules.

    The spiritual group demands that you give up as much of your assests and your yearly income to it as possible.

    The members of the spiritual group call each other "brother" and "sister," even when they aren't related at all.

    The spiritual group is led by a group of enlightened masters who wear strange clothes and speak in esoteric parables.

    The spiritual group demands that you accept its teachings without reservation, even when those teachings are in direct conflict with your understanding of basic scientific knowledge.

    The spiritual group demands that you select your spouse and your closest friends from its membership.

    The spiritual group demands that you place your children in its training program.

    The spiritual group teaches that giving up your life for the sake of the spiritual group may become necessary sometime in the future.
Please take these warning signs seriously! If you, or a loved one, are in a dangerous cult, as determined by the above checklist, you must do everything you possibly can to remove the potential victim from that dangerous cult!
Convince me that brahma kumaris is NOT a dangerous cult.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 May 2008

Ah, well, you see ... its not that the Brahma Kumaris are a "dangerous cult", it is that all dangerous cults are a "MEMORIAL of the BKWSU from the last 5,000 Year Cycle".

Does not that make sense according to Gyan? If Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Hinduism are partial memorials of Baba and the BKWSU ... are not the cults and sects too? It seems only fair. Its just that the cult and sect leaders are impure souls we poor dharna (embodiment) and memory who only saw a small part of the BKWSU and then when they reincarnated at the end of the Iron Age, copied what they saw to start their own religion.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by bansy » 06 May 2008

Hi Jan dear

Maybe you could write to the author of the list and have him/her explain the reasons for composing this list and the experiences from it. Maybe invite him/her on this forum so as to get a better understanding, any differences or commonalities.

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by jannisder » 06 May 2008

So true!! Ex-I

And even fix their knowledge in a very accurate way to make you believe that all we say is false.

All according to basic psychological knowledge that more educated people learned in school about mind power, persuasion and control. There is a Murli point on this ... somewhere.

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by andrey » 07 May 2008

If we apply these signs to any religion it will also match, however is religion dangerous. Nowadays it is popular view religion was made for control of men for to be used from the elite. Once any new religion was also looked the same way. Now that religion has no more power, sects and cults have more power, but matters of religion has their place in society. Wherever the society is weak and sick it is due to lack of virtues or religion. Even Avyakt Bapdad says about the 4th power - the spiritual power. Political power and authority, the power of science etc and the third one they are all less. Even if we take the Bk or the outside world, the political class is considered less then the spiritual class. Political authorities, center in charge, zone in charge will all conform to the religious authority of the learned Dadi. But in the righteous rule both the reigns of the political and the religious rule or authority or power has to be in one hand only.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by new knowledge » 08 May 2008

Brother andrey, convince me that AIVV/Advance Party is not a dangerous cult, with special reference to the 10-point-formula given by sister Jannisder? Give detailed explaination how none of these 10 points applies to AIVV.[/color]

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by andrey » 08 May 2008

Yes, It applies, it applies to the Bk, but it also applies to any religion. Muslim, chistian, Buddhist, just these groups are bigger.

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by jannisder » 08 May 2008

Warning signs of a destructive cult
Do you know someone in a destructive cult?
Warning signs!
Anyone could attack a group they disagree with by unfairly labeling it a destructive cult. How would you know whether it really were such a cult or not? is not there an objective method to evaluate groups for cultic tendencies? Yes. The following early warning signs can help you reasonably determine whether or not a group is likely to be a destructive cult, and if you should be concerned about a friend, coworker, or loved one being involved with it.

The main reason that the following destructive cult tactics are so damaging to both the individual and society is because they debilitate rationality and reduce empathy. Rationality and empathy are indispensable in making good personal and social decisions. History is littered with personal and social catastrophes where a lack of rationality and lack of empathy were its core causes.

Ask yourself if the following criteria apply to the group you are concerned about.
A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.

A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.

A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.

A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.

A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.

A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.

A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.

A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives.

If you know someone who belongs to a group that demonstrates a significant number of these warning signs and you would like more information on how to deal with destructive cults or mind control, go to http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by andrey » 08 May 2008

It applies here also. Even desctructive is well said. After all we wait for the destruction of the whole world. Maybe it does not apply to dictation. Because the sam as with the BK everyone is free to folllow or not. It is only when one asks thathe is said what to do and not in a form of dictation, but rather advice. Many peole live lightly with these "Godly" advices, they don't feel it as oppression. They follow them, because they believe they are good. You may say that here is exactly the machine working, that they make start thinking like this for to exploit you, but there are also people who leave and then return, so either the world is no good or there is some attraction.

Maybe it does not apply to the double standards. We are advised to view anyone equally. However it is normal that we don't talk BK matters with a nonBK, because he is not informed and there is also the danger to seem like a dangerous, destructive cult member and bear either mocking or direct attack.

If you really think peole in the cult are victims you would feel pity with them and try to help and not get angry with them. I fif they don't understand they are in danger, then one would not get agitated and wil make attempts to explain with love and concern.

jaycdp
Not sure
Posts: 95
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: canada

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by jaycdp » 08 May 2008

If BKs are cult then what is Islam?
What is Christianity?
What is Budhism?
What is Hinduism?

So these religions must be super cults right?

Compared to Christianity Brahmakumaris are royal.
Compared Islam Brahmakumaris are first class.
Compared Hindus brahma kumaris are brahmins and high caste.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 May 2008

jaydcp wrote:If BKs are cult then what is Islam ...
A religion. (I notice you don't compare the Brahmakumaris to Buddhism?) This is a well discussed topic in academia, I suggest you try to Google.

The problem with your broad brush is ... which Islamic group ... which Christian denomination ... which Buddhist sect ... which Hindu caste ... which Brahma Kumari? It means nothing. I think it is safe to describe the Brahma Kumari as a parasitical millenarianist cult because of their cryptic and supremacist nature alone. "Parasitical" because at least the other religions are self-sustaining by sexual procreation whereas the BKWSU can only continue and expand by taking individuals and resources away from other social groups, families, religions etc. They closely fit one Indian ideal of "holiness" but it is not a universal one. On closer scrutiny, what do they actually do, e.g. how much money in for how much social benefit out?
andrey wrote:Even if we take the BK or the outside world, the political class is considered less then the spiritual class. Political authorties, center in charge, zone in charge will all conform to the religious authority of the learned Dadi.
Except in developed nations where the church and the state are very clearly divided. They both bow to the Judiciary (law). And everybody bows to the Tax man. Is you statement currently or historically true? No. Of course not. What "religious authority and who conforms to the religious authority of the learned Dadi!?!

Historically, hierarchical Power has always used and created religions (e.g. Rome creating Christianity) to gather, mentally control and suppress the people (not to over look any positive aspects, e.g. the education and secular learning that went on in the monasteries, temples etc). Then those in charge of religions became politically powerful, often challenging political power. From Spain or Tibet, for examples, both owned lands, armies, trading fleets, slaves etc. Try basing a world view on some real history books?

I, personally, do not like the approach of the so-called anti-cult movement, mostly because it is often frightened mask of fundamental Christianity. A religion that feels threatened by new religions. I also find it xenophobic (fear of foreigners) to the point of racism, e.g. hateful of brown or black men with accents and funny hats. In my opinion, it has also been corrupted by the exaggerations of American society, one that I find unreal, violent and far more money orientated than what I am used to. American religions reflect America as a whole and so the cultic debate has been blown out of proportion. Yes, cultic leaders and religions have proven to be highly aggressive and dangerous ... BUT ... taken out of those contexts, many of the observations or categorisations are fair and accurate.

Recently, I have had a bit of a turn around and started to see the role and cohesive value of families creating society. I can see why family organizations wont to protect families from cults and understand why they see cults as parasites on mainstream society. One invests 21 years into a child and then some Hoodoo Voodoos come along, take the best years of their lives, breaks apart the family unit to do so, teaches them to lie and leaves a trail of empties behind them.

In the West, the "cultic movement" model is fairly sterotypical and involved a fairly regular sector of society, Cults very often do feed off the naivety of younger people's energy; target vulnerable people, students etc. What I would still really like to know in detail is how the BKs translate into Indian culture?

Beyond the early days when Lekhraj Kirpalani supported them all financially, how do individuals become inculcated now? Are families still being broken apart? Are families GLAD to be broken apart (i.e. dumping daughters), do BKs in India carry the responsibility of their physical parents through old age and sickness? Is that money taken out of the families and given to the millenarianist group instead?

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by andrey » 09 May 2008

Yes, now power is divided. This was exactly the point. Now the power and rule of administration and religion is divided. This happenes when there is division of the country and church, when there is division, there are two contries and two churches, then there is such division. This division goes more and more, people become more professional, more specialized. In the past there used to be so-called "encyclopedia people". All in one.

When there is no division between life and religion, religion and country, where there is one ruler he will be the best example, the best man, the greates philosopher and the most skilled ruler. this can be establishe by all in one. Father, teacher - Satguru. If the world is a family, administrative power is in the Father. Yes, mothers rule, but Father is the head. And he is also spiritual authority.

I know in history there are examples when the king is also head of the church. There are, however, church men who do the church job. He is more just like a head by a title, so it is not in real sense. Such examples cannot be found in written history, because such undivided rule had existed only in Golden and Silver Age and there is no written history for then.

Regarding the supremacy of spirituality even today if politicians and kings go to see the pope they bow down to him and kiss his hand. He does not bow down to them, but they bow down to him. In India also the highest caste is Brahmins.

You say, "BK fits an Indian ideal for "holiness", but not a universal one" Which is the universal ideal for holiness? Please, answer.

Hindu religion is universal. Gita is universal scripture for all the religions. All the principles are contained there. If all the religions originate from one and there is division we can call this "The Big Bang theory". It may also apply to land, people etc.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 May 2008

There is no universal ideal for holiness. I am even wrong to write "Indian ideal" because in Indian there are many different ideas. Perhaps I ought be more specific to locality and gati, e.g. "middle class Vashnavite Gujerati".

Historical facts disagree with your analysis, you have a romantic imagination andrey.

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by andrey » 10 May 2008

If there is no universal ideal for holiness then why do you say something complies with it or not?

The Golden Age can still be a possible historical fact nevertheless we may not have remains and proofs. It is possible there is no history of then. If it is not possible to prove it then how can one also disprove it?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Dangerous cult warning signs

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 May 2008

That is a non sequitor, andrey. I cant say if something "complies" or not to something that does not exist. One could say if something complies to e.g. a traditional Mandarin, a Jesuit, a Fon, a 17th century German ... etc concept of holiness but not suggest that there is such thing as a universal standard for all times and places.

In the BK model, one only gets close to an alledgely "absolutely standard of holiness", e.g. Laksmi and Narayan, for a single second before they start to decay by excluding all others and most of reality. The BKWSU and PBK seemingly just ignore and dismiss all contradictory evidence, e.g. history, archeology, anthropology.

Whether something as numinous and chimeric as BK Gyan is true or not boils down to a "balance of probability" based on as many factors as possible; track record, provenance, conduct, available evidence, contradictory evidence etc.

In the BKWSU's case, I think their collective record/conduct is so persistently FAR OFF the scale of reasonableness, it is hard for followers and others to grasp it all. I think that is partly how they model works. It is so much to take onboard that is overloads and fuses the brainbox of individuals, traumatising them. Very typical cultic behaviour.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests