Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

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Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Aug 2008

Getting back to the core of our activities here, documenting and questioning the development of Brahma Kumarism, I had a couple of questions on the basis of some observations regarding Mahatma Gandhi, who latterly the BKs have used for good quotes and a flattering association but of whom the early Prajapati Brahma-kumaris referred to as the "blind dictator" of the "devilish crow race" (Congress Party), one which poured "filth emanating out of their qualities of 'Rajo' and 'Tamo'" into society.

Some questions;

from 1915 onwards, the most important Sindhi leader in Gandhiji's life was Acharya Jivatram Bhagavandas Kripalani (born 1888 in Hyderabad, educated in Karachi). I ask again if he was related to any of the Kripalani clan operating the BKWSU?

In writings of his, this other Kripalani was sent a copy of Gandhi's ashram rules but Kripalani found the rules "very strange" particularly the rule that "husband and wife should live as brother and sister". The other Kripalani threw them away as "impractical".
  • a) was this typical or classical spiritual advice or was it something new to Gandhi?
    b) Given Gandhi's influence of the time, can we draw an assumptions that the idea that "husband and wife should live as brother and sister" came from him and were later applied to the Lekhraj Kirpalani ashram ideal?
Whilst the Brahma-kumaris generally sucked up to Lekhraj Kirpalani's old customers, the British Royalty, sending them voluminous "gifts" and accusing Congress of "treason against the King", the other Kripalani and his wife Sucheta (married in 1936), went on to become notable freedom fighters in the 'Quit India Movement' working closely with Mahatma Gandhi during the Partition riots. Sucheta also became one of a few women elected to the Constituent Assembly, was part of the subcommittee that drafted the Indian Constitution and the first woman to hold the position of Chief Minister in any Indian state.

Gandhi visited Sindh seven times, in 1916, 1917, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1931, and 1934 and it was a "Sindhi friend'' who had helped Gandhi when he arrived in London for his law studies. The other Kripalani became thought of as the "spiritual leader of the socialists" and one of the last Gandhians.

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by arjun » 22 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:In writings of his, this other Kripalani was sent a copy of Gandhi's ashram rules but Kripalani found the rules "very strange" particularly the rule that "husband and wife should live as Brother and Sister". The other Kripalani threw them away as "impractical".

a) was this typical or classical spiritual advice or was it something new to Gandhi?
b) Given Gandhi's influence of the time, can we draw an assumptions that the idea that "husband and wife should live as Brother and Sister" came from him and were later applied to the Lekhraj Kirpalani ashram ideal?
I don't think the above rule was invented by Gandhiji. I don't know where he adopted this rule from, but this idea is part of the concept of Vanprastha Ashram in Hinduism, where couples who have crossed 60 try to abstain from sex and other vices and try to devote their maximum time in Bhakti. In fact Manusmriti, an ancient Hindu scripture says that one should indulge in sex only for procreation.

This concept of couples living as brothers and sisters probably also existed in the early Buddhist viharas where married couples used to lead a celibate life. Anyone with information on early Buddhist history could comment further.

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by mr green » 22 Aug 2008

I think I've seen them at Glastonbury

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by tom » 22 Aug 2008

arjun wrote:I don't think the above rule was invented by Gandhiji. I don't know where he adopted this rule from, but this idea is part of the concept of Vanprastha Ashram in Hinduism, where couples who have crossed 60 try to abstain from sex and other vices and try to devote their maximum time in Bhakti. In fact Manusmriti, an ancient Hindu scripture says that one should indulge in sex only for procreation.
I had friends from rooted Sufi Muslim families from Middle East, who had no connection to Hinduism or Buddhism. They told me, that according to their tradition parents who cross over 60 abstain from sex. I met also their parents who were living as brother and sister a happy and faithful life.

So where does this tradition come from?

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by alladin » 22 Aug 2008

If the culture was really that of "indulging" in sex only for procreation purposes, no wonder interest both from men and women would wane early! In what kind of shape do you imagine those over 60 guys were? How attractive were their wives, once in their fifties or sixties? Is it a matter of "abstaining" from or of giving up because ... In any case, this all refers to a pre-Viagra age. Devilish scientists are helpful in their own way!

The body is dirty, sex is dirty, so one should stop such a sinful activity as soon as possible! It is just in recent years that doctors of the body and mind are saying and providing evidence that sexual activity can actually be beneficial. Also, it is becoming socially acceptable that elderly people "still do it"! In the past, just the idea was source of embarassement and even disgust!

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by tom » 22 Aug 2008

alladin wrote:If the culture was really that of "indulging" in sex only for procreation purposes
I don't think so. This elderly couple was married in very young age with great love. As I met them husband was 70, wife 10 years younger. They showed great understanding to their adult children's and grand children's love affairs and marriages-divorces. A traditional great couple living together with modern younger generations.
In what kind of shape do you imagine those over 60 guys were?
They were both healthy and in good shape living a life devoted to God and to their religion and to their family. Funny, my friend told me that, as their parents decided to abstain sex, they all noticed with big surprise that their mom was in her very mature age pregnant to their fourth brother. And she gave birth to a healthy baby after they separated their bedroom. The light atmosphere around this elderly couple was nice. They were laughing about themselves.
It is just in recent years that doctors of the body and mind are saying and providing evidence that sexual activity can actually be beneficial.
Of course, the doctors are right. We should all have the wisdom to make the right choices individually for ourselves,not because the Seniors told us to do so.

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by tom » 22 Aug 2008

We were almost going off topic, from the similarity between traditions - like Gandhi's ashram rules - in different continents and religions, to the "sex-life of elderly people". So to return to the topic:
ex-l wrote:Getting back to the core of our activities here, documenting and questioning the development of Brahma Kumarism, I had a couple of questions on the basis of some observations regarding Mahatma Gandhi, who latterly the BKs have used for good quotes and a flattering association but of whom the early Prajapati Brahma-Kumaris referred to as the "blind dictator" of the "devilish crow race" (Congress Party), one which poured "filth emanating out of their qualities of 'Rajo' and 'Tamo'" into society.
From the Sakar Murli of 01/07/2008
"We are establishing our divine kingdom, just as the Congress Party got together and helped (to gain independence). Gandhi Bapu served through his body, mind and wealth. He also' had to go to prison, and so that was serving through his body. His mind was also engaged in that."

"Those of the Congress Party also had to tolerate a great deal. Innocent women were put in prison. It was the men who endured the most suffering."

"Even Bapu Gandhi had a large army. Among them there were good, well known ones and some who were ordinary. That Bapu liberated you from the British. Baba is now giving you children Shrimat in order to liberate you from the enemy Ravan."

"Innocent ones are assaulted for vice. People of the Congress Party were put in prison. Whereas you are imprisoned in the bondage of Kans and Jarasandha etc."

"The battle of you children is with Maya, Ravan. By following Gandhi's instructions Bharat was liberated from the foreigners. Maya, Ravan has ruled over you for 2500 years. This Maya is very strong. It took them (Congress Party) 40 to 50 years of effort to liberate themselves."
Murli quotes quite contradictory to Om Radhe's own descriptions of Gandhi and Congress Party in Divine Decrees which she signed as Divine Daughter of Divine Father, the Gita Gyan Inventor Prajapita Brahma.

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by mr green » 22 Aug 2008

You bunch ... that was a good joke.

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Aug 2008

No it wasn't. As much as the BKs might drag the corpse of Gandhi onto a stage if they thought it might benefit them (and do in terms of his choice quotes), Gandhi played lead in his own band and was not interest in them. Its probably one of the earliest evidenced examples of the VIP hunting. Now they make do with his namesake Sonia.

A bit of a history lesson next ... Gandhi was a keep player in "cleaning up" India's sexual morals. More than folks realise today. But he had his own kinks.

Gandhi's brother-sister husband-wife stuff was not limited to individuals above 60 years old but all couples. He thought that husband and wife should have sex only for purposes of procreation and swore off sex at age 36, requiring a similar vow of his disciples. He even made a big scene in public when he had a nocturnal emission in 1936 (age 67). Yet he slept with and was massaged by naked women, it is also reported he had baths with them. If you try this on at a BK center, you will get definitely get chucked out ... even these days. Or may be not, as jannisder writes or her BK.
gandhi.gif
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Gandhi's sleeping arrangements attracted public attention in 1946-47, when he was trying to quell violence between Muslims and Hindus. It came out that Gandhi was sleeping with his 19-year-old grandniece, Manu. In part an effort to stay warm in winter, but also to test his vow of brahmacharya, or total chastity. He thought that if he could spend the night in a woman's embrace without feeling sexual stirrings, it would demonstrate that he had conquered his carnal impulses and become "God's eunuch." Manu was not his first brahmacharya partner he'd also slept naked with another young woman in his ashram, starting when she was 18.

Gandhi slept with at least ten girls and women in his bed including other men's wives.
  • · Sushila Nayar who was only 15 when she came to the Sabarmati Ashram and became Gandhi's intimate companion. They bathed together and even used the same bath water, but Gandhi assured everyone that he kept his "eyes tightly shut".
    · Lilavati Asar, associated with Gandhi from 1926-1948, slept in his bed and gave him "service," which meant bathing and massaging.
    · Sharada Parnerkar slept "close" to Gandhi and rendered "service." She was very ill in October, 1940, and Gandhi gave her regular enemas (I can think of a few senior sisters I would recommend that to - with or without the dhristi to their third eye first ).
    · Amtul Salaam, a Punjabi from Patiala was also a bedmate and masseuse. Gandhi once wrote about the joy he gave Salaam when she received a massage from him.
    · Prabhavati Narayan who lived in an unconsummated marriage with Jayaprakash Narayan. Because of her lack of sexual interest or desire, Gandhi thought that Prabhavati would be a perfect married brahmachari. In addition to sleeping with Gandhi, she also gave him "service."
    · Raj Kumari Amrit Kaur, married to a Rajasthani prince, India’s first health minister and was a Gandhi associate for 30 years. Although older, she slept right along with the younger women in Gandhi's quarters. She also helped with baths and massages.
    · Sucheta Kriplani, a member of Parliament and professor at Benares Hindu University, member of Gandhi’s Peace Brigade in East Bengal in 1947. Although Gandhi invited Mrs. Kriplani to his bed on a regular basis, he insisted that married couples in his ashrams always sleep in different quarters.
    · Abha Gandhi, started sleeping with Gandhi when she was 16; she also bathed him and washed his clothes.
    · Kanchan Shah, a married woman, had a "one night stand" with Gandhi and was banned from brahmacharya experiments because she reputedly wanted to have sex with him. Gandhi gave the following instructions on brahmachari marriage to Shah and her husband: "You should not touch each other. You shall not talk to each other. You shall not work together. You should not take service from each other." Gandhi of course received "service" from his women on a daily basis. On the hypocrisy of taking what he denied to others, Kumar has this to say: "The vow of brahmacharya was a revenge he took upon everyone else."
    · Manu Gandhi, his brother’s granddaughter, and constant companion for the last eight years of his life.
The scenario appeared to be that they first slept next to him, then slept under the same cover without clothes. Significantly, Gandhi admitted that "all of them would strip reluctantly. . . and they did so at my prompting." As to the reason for complete nakeness, Sushila Nayar recalls Gandhi's explanation to Manu: "We both may be killed by the Muslims at any time. We must both put our purity to the ultimate test. . . and we should now both start sleeping naked."

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Re: Gandhi and the Brahma Kumaris

Post by mr green » 24 Aug 2008

I am taking notes for when the Cake Guru emerges from his time of isolation and enlightenment.

Anyway, it was a good joke.

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