Natural Disasters and Geography

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bansy
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Natural Disasters and Geography

Post by bansy » 10 Aug 2006

Can any BK explain how volcanoes and mountain ranges and rest of nature etc were created if the world is only 5000 years.....does all this happen at the end of the Confluence Age, and if so how long after the Confluence Age and before the Golden Age will it take to create the Himalayas, the continents, etc. Or did some of the natural landscaping get done during the Golden Age though no-one got hurt ?

Does all the current condition of the earth planet (e.g. rivers, erosion, sand dunes, etc) get returned to its original pristine state at the start of the Golden Age, since everything will be perfect at that time. If everything happens over again exactly as it was each cycle, does that mean that trees and flowers grow exactly in the same place, and bees will pollinate exactly as it was 5000 years ago, etc ? Does the sun itself also return to its original state ?

(BTW here's a few nice animated explanations of how disasters occur, it's not of spiritual nature, but maybe the earth plates is part of the answer to understanding the "history and GEOGRAPHY" that BKs have to study.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4972366.stm )

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Post by amaranthine » 11 Aug 2006

Hi Bansy,

I know of Lots of Murlis that explain what it's like now and what it will be like in the Golden Age but I know of no Murli which explains how any of this happens or even if it will.

I find this omission in itself interesting and the conclusions I draw are:

1. Gods task is purification and the information we are given relates to this only.
2. This aspect of the cycle cannot be explained using current scientific knowledge or paradigms.
3. It is not the role of BKs to explain how this will happen.

So as a BK I cannot answer your question in the way that I expect you want it answered. If I came from a different culture I may say 'forget about it, it's not important - have faith'. This in effect would be the same answer.

My own feeling is that the answer lies with consciousness and its effect on space time.

I find this subject fascinating and my belief is that you have to trust your own feelings and experience, and try and explain things from that perspective. If everyone explained things based on current knowledge (scientific or otherwise) discovery would never happen. As for explaining how this happens don't ask a BK as they will not be able to illuminate you, ask a BK how to experience the soul or God and hopefully they will do a better job. If you want this sort of question answered, all I can suggest is that you keep track of current scientific discovery - that's what I do, to the best of my ability.

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Post by bansy » 11 Aug 2006

Hi amaranthine,

Thanks for the honest reply. Maybe the contents of the Murlis are not fully understood.
I find this subject fascinating and my belief is that you have to trust your own feelings and experience, and try and explain things from that perspective. If everyone explained things based on current knowledge

Yes, but how else can one try to explain things ? As a student of Raja Yoga, I think the task is to study and churn, and that includes even things that are beyond the unimaginable, if you are to be master or the world, to go from the limited to the unlimited. Or just stay plain ordinary and limited and pass something on or dispel an opportunity to learn and churn, on the assumption someone somewhere or even God has to give one the answer in which case the student failed in his/her task as a Godly student....
Even if the answer is a "dream" or an "imagination", as long as it has pure thought behind it, that dream is as good as truth. Because if you are a truly BK, then you share the seed and the roots of the Tree of Humanity, so whatever you ask or reply has great repercussions and power. With humility the foundation of all virtues.

The problem that exists in the BK world is the fear of doing something wrong and it would be easier it seems to just to remain silent.
ask a BK how to experience the soul or God and hopefully they will do a better job.
Experience is personal so I don't think it cannot be explained truly between souls, that is for the task of God, though we can share those experiences as it will encourage good wishes and pure thoughts for the brotherly souls. In the meantime, while He's at work, it does not stop the students from progressing on with their studies, the deeper one goes, the deeper into the unlimited.

I am not having a rebuff at you, amaranthine, I hope more BKs can be more open as you. I do wish the dreamers out there are the creaters and masters too. In the material world, they seem to be. We should aways do to the best of our ability, and maybe just that extra step more without the fear of falling.

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Post by amaranthine » 11 Aug 2006

No rebuff taken bansy. I agree with everything you say. I am sure it is the role of BKs (all BKs included in this) to dream and imagine, to think outside the current padigms, then hopefully somehow either directly or indirectly for these dreams to inspire the scientists to explain/prove these ideas in a scientific way rather than a 'spiritual' way.

From my imaginings I am certain that such questions as;
  • how does starlight reach us if the cycle is only 5000 years old
  • who do you explain Indian glaciation within a 5000 year cycle
  • how do you explain the diversity of language etc etc.
would not be asked if we understood the role human consciousness has in this drama.

And just beceause a lot of BKs (this time I mean BKs) do not ask these questions does not mean they understand this! (I do not think anyone does at the moment) but this is the importantant bit, most BKs do not think you need to understand this in order to become pure.

I don't think you need to understand it either but I do find that through churning about it and discussing it (with anyone) I get spiritually intoxicated which of course has a positive effect on my Yoga and thus my efforts to become pure.

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Post by bansy » 11 Aug 2006

do not think you need to understand it either but i do find that through churning about it and discussing it (with anyone) i get spiritualy intoxicated which of course has a positive effect on my Yoga and thus my efforts to become pure.
Truly agree. I always feel there is always a time for silence (of thoughts), a time for silence (with God), and the rest of time to be engaged in learning and churning, spiritual study and practice having much more meaningful and healthier than material study, though most of us need a little of the latter to support ourselves and our bodies that carry our souls.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » 13 Aug 2006

"Can any BK explain how volcanoes and mountain ranges and rest of nature etc were created if the world is only 5000 years."

1) It is important to understand that there is no such a thing as "creation" things have always existed and they just change through time. Science has a law which explains this idea neatly : "matter cannot be created neither destroyed, it only transforms." (law of conservation of matter/energy.) Matter transforms, that is all. Today you see a mountain range, tomorrow according to the different forces in nature and human interaction .. it may not be as it was before. Once we understand time, we can see that the world is not "only 5000 years" but eternal. 5000 years is the duration of the cycle or in other words; for matter to go back to what it was before at one time. (See Recurrence Theorem by Poincare.)

2) Most westerners have a "blind faith" in science, ignoring that questions such as "the origin of anything" it is not in the realm of science. Thus someone comes up with a theory which will be supported if it fits the current ideology. (ie Christian doctrine) Once we understand that linear time cannot exist because there is no answer to the chain of "cause and effect" and because the 3 aspects of time (past, present and future) are not present in the "beginning" then we can see that cyclical time is the logical and reasonable answer.

3) If you watch the movie documentary with Al Gore "the inconvenient truth" he points out that population has increased from 2.3 billion souls to 6.5 in the last 50 years or so (baby boomer generation). It is irrational to think, that humans have been around for even 10,000 years. The rate of population increase by simple extrapolation will give us the answer. Of course, some choose to ignore that because Mr. Ph.D has written something different. This is a matter of reasoning alone.
Please take a look t the following links:
http://www.godhascome.org/images/Time.htm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bang.html

4) Science is the "religion" of the 21st century. There is so much blind faith and speculation. Scientists are the new priests.

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Post by bansy » 13 Aug 2006

Hi avyakt7,

Welcome to the forum.

I accept that things have always existed and the mountain ranges and river existed. What is not clear is in Murlis it says everything happens again exactly as it was 5000 years ago. Then, for example, how does the sediment that has been slid from the mountain top via a glacier, down a river, get returned to its original position when it has fallen into the bottom of the ocean ? How do the bends on a river that have been eroded over time get returned ? Some people have sat at the banks of those very rivers fishing and having picnics, and will do so again.

I agree matter transforms, but how do you transform energy (and thus mass) back to its original position in space and "time". I recall another poster mentioning how it would be possible (or impossible) to return the beeping space satellite that has now exited the solar system go back to NASA, or on a grander scale the solar systems and stars that have moved and expanded at incredible speeds, to back to their original position.

"Science" has come under pressure, so I try to seek the answer to this truth using pure imagination. I've tried Jagdish Chandler's books and although there are stimulating topics in there, no-one really has the ultimate answer. "Time" is an odd topic and time itself will oddly answer for itself.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » 13 Aug 2006

Thank you for your welcoming message.

Matter is made up of atoms. Any atom has the capability of becoming (being in the state of) another atom. If you mix cofee with water, in 5000 years history and geography will repeat. The atoms that have been combined will go on and transform into something else once you drink that mix, so there is no longer the mix that you prepared, however; history will repeat and you will do the same procedure again, using the atoms which make up coffee and water at that time. Everything that exists recycles. You cannot create anything new. In your example, the " dynamic picture " of the sediment that has been slid from the mountain top via a glacier, down a river will be "re-created." The "Picture" needs to be there in "time." Atoms will make up that picture again. This makes complete sense once we understand the Drama and predestination. It cannot be otherwise.

God's knowledge is a game of Paradoxes, we require a different way of looking at things in order to understand. If we want to look at God's knowledge based on what science tells us, we are getting into a "shaky" point of reference.
Time exists? Yes, it does.. but it doesn't. Do you see this?

In my experience as we practice what God has told us to do, our intellect starts looking at things with a fresh view. As we "learn to unlearn" (another paradox) we will be able to understand things which we were not able before. Jagdish's books are good especially if you are looking at the practical aspects of the knowledge.

I have found that God's knowledge is logical, reasonable, consequent with previous premises...and very deep and subtle. There is no need to read books about this, all you need is a logical mind free from pre-conceptions.
God does an excellent job in putting deep aspects of knowledge easy to understand, however our understanding is "numberwise."

You can do "churning" on these points, as I have done, however, they will not increse your loving feelings for God nor your "embibing" of divine virtues. It is just for your mind to be satisfied for a little while until another question comes up and doubts fill your mind. However, once you have the experience from God, once you feel Him... your life turns around your heart understands and your mind follows. However, I understand, everyone has his/her own time... it is perfect.

Anyway, Hope you had the chance to read the links I sent you. I will be more than happy to share what i found, these "little things" which can create a mountain of thoughts, which are not "manmanabhav" BTW.

Best.

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Post by bansy » 13 Aug 2006

Thanks for the reply.
I have found that God's knowledge is logical, reasonable, consequent with previous premises...and very deep and subtle. There is no need to read books about this, all you need is a logical mind free from pre-conceptions.
God does an excellent job in putting deep aspects of knowledge easy to understand, however our understanding is "numberwise."
You can do "churning" on these points, as I have done, however, they will not increse your loving feelings for God nor your "embibing" of divine virtues. It is just for your mind to be satisfied for a little while until another question comes up and doubts fill your mind. However, once you have the experience from God, once you feel Him... your life turns around your heart understands and your mind follows. However, I understand, everyone has his/her own time... it is perfect.
The churning on such points and one's feelings and relationship with God are seperate matters. I would not judge others on how they are or not studying the 4 subjects, or what their relationship with God is, or how much imbibing of values or how pure another soul is, regardless if they are a BK or not, or numberwise. The gates are not closed yet, have they ?
What I will share though is the open mind and opinions for all who give any view, because there is some truth in all of them, and I am happy if one gives an answer which may have similarly been previously given by another or different from another, since it based on one's churning at that point. But the study is continous, and from what I've learnt so far, God has not revealed all the secrets otherwise the Golden Age has dawned. If God has not revealed the secrets, then whatever concepts or preconcept one has learnt has not been completed either. This Cycle is not finished yet from what I understand, though someone can correct this.

One of the main things that has a paradox is we are told not forget the past and not think of the future but live in the present, then yet why bother than about mentioning about 5000 years and the Golden Age and the future of the next birth. Yes, be free of mind and have joy as much as possible now.

My Q have no direct science. I never mention anything about science. It is about nature. And a drama is made up of events and actions.

BTW, I do think all thoughts regarding the study as related to God's Gyan is "manmanabhav". Otherwise, why bother to have try/tried finding out about it ? Everything here is His.

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » 13 Aug 2006

The word “judging.” Let’s go a bit deeper. Once we understand that out of 6.5 billion souls, every one of them has his/her own “reality”, his own opinion, his own “truth” which is unique, we can see that there is no basis for “judgments.” God on the other hand, is sitting up in the mountain looking at us in a detached but loving manner, giving us the “reality” of the group, the world, according to “time.”.

You see churning as separate from feelings for God, I see it different.. we are both right, different realities… you see that “all thoughts regarding the study as related to God's Gyan is "manmanabhav".... I see it differently… some will ask: “who is right?” the answer is both... but none… or someone may say that you are right… will that make it “right”?

You say that “drama is made up of events and actions.” I say, actions are made up of thoughts and thoughts of sanskars which are fixed, recorded in us. Thus I could say that the drama is made up of sanskars, right? These sanskars when in action become Karma. Thus, the drama is made up of karma.. right? But karma is “action.”... So you are right…but.. so do I.

In your post you mentioned: “we are told not forget the past and not think of the future but live in the present, then yet why bother than about mentioning about 5000 years and the Golden Age and the future of the next birth.”

Past is Past. Do not think about it. The future is good… think about it. The present is good, think about it. However, The past is your future and the future, your past… contradictory? Different “realities,” different levels of understanding for different souls.

It is important to know that feelings towards God will take us away from “the world of words.”. Experience of God is the first and foremost important aspect. That is on “my own little reality.”

Thank you for the opportunity to share.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Aug 2006

I would agree that the answers to these questions have to lie in the area of "understanding the role human consciousness". But can I first note that "God" used to teach us that there were 5 Billion souls, then 5.5 Billion, now it is 6.5 ... of course, it was the Hindiwallas editing the Murli but "God" got the blame! I guess not so many Western BKs stuck around to notice the changes. Most left and the new ones did not know what had gone before. This is what is unique about this forum and this time. The whole Family can get back together again, prodigal sons and daughters too.
avyakt7 wrote:If you mix cofee with water, in 5000 years history and geography will repeat. The atoms that have been combined will go on and transform into something else once you drink that mix, so there is no longer the mix that you prepared, however; history will repeat and you will do the same procedure again, using the atoms which make up coffee and water at that time. Everything that exists recycles. You cannot create anything new. In your example, the " dynamic picture " of the sediment that has been slid from the mountain top via a glacier, down a river will be "re-created."
How?

OK. Let's step away from the "easy" stuff like Natural Disasters, Geography and even geology ...

Each Cycle hundred of tonnes of metals and dug out of the Earth and propelledhundreds of miles into outer space to become space junk. In Outer space the metals do not degrade or degreade exceptionally slowly [no oxygen to oxidize]. Some are headed out beyond the solar system. How do those elements find their way back to miles under the surface of the planet so that they are dug out next Kalpa? If each Kalpa hundred of tonnes are dug out and there are an infitite number of Kalpas then given that we have a good approximation of what the mass of the planet Earth is, in a very short calculatable time there are going to be no metals or no planets.

It is an extension of the old "Flag on the Moon" equation that bedevilled bright BKs.

Of course, you can step back defensively and say, get drugged up on Shiva and it will feel so good you wont want to think about such things ... but there has to be an answer how. If you can answer, then we can move on to Poincaré.

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Post by sparkal » 23 Aug 2006

This is not a BK centre, so souls can churn as much as they like surely. I cannot see any place here for 'lets not talk about this, we should just be remembering Shiva'. Let the moderators weed out things, get them working hard, real hard :P .

Otherwise, when looking at matter, the material world, things within time and space, the answers are more likely to come when we approach the ER, matter from a detached spiritual viewpoint. This is where the teacher views things from. Simple, stand back, simply detach. Easier said than done for some. Others find it easier. So we are all different. We have no right to judge, the self. Judging others is less harmful, but strengthens the habit, tendency.

We can make it easier by considering that we never left the Subtle Region and have always "resided" there. Then we can simply leave fixed time and space and drop back in at the appropriate point in the drama for my sanskars, or, lives "recorded within the soul". When we step outside, we are then in a position to start approaching this subject for real. When we approach it from a material viewpoint, we cannot see the wood from the trees.

None of this is "the truth", it is just something I have written. It may change next week and I will not have a moments guilt or fear of being reprimanded. We will find out all we need and no doubt wish to know eventually. We should not fear that I don't think. Victory is our birth rite because we are already complete, including Shiva. Once again, we can only understand this if we look at it from a certain viewpoint or points. And it may change next week.

With so much withholding of information and fabricated truths, only a fool will know "the truth". This is "Ravans kingdom of illusion", the world is like an onion, layers of illusion and lies. So we should perhaps keep an open mind, there is no end, the drama is on going.

There is no point teaching primary school children rocket science, so there is balance in everything. We are all here ... hold on, is that another billion over there?
Love

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Post by mitra » 30 Aug 2006

bansy wrote:
I accept that things have always existed and the mountain ranges and river existed. What is not clear is in Murlis it says everything happens again exactly as it was 5000 years ago. Then, for example, how does the sediment that has been slid from the mountain top via a glacier, down a river, get returned to its original position when it has fallen into the bottom of the ocean ? How do the bends on a river that have been eroded over time get returned ? Some people have sat at the banks of those very rivers fishing and having picnics, and will do so again.

I think matter may be different - i mean the molecule with which the matter is made up of . But the shape, size etc can be the same!

IBHS
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