Are BKs equal to Islam?

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2012

Yes, mbbhat,

how do you feel about the degree of Bhakti being carried on and encouraged by the Brahma Kumaris? It has got to such a level that they are worshipping their senior sisters like deities, and I have even heard senior sisters encouraging followers to remember them as a shortcut to remembering ShivBaba (Gulzar, Janki etc).

To be honest, it disgusts me. I thought Gyan was the Path of Knowledge. If I had wanted to continue on doing Bhakti, I would have followed a Bhakti cult.

It is clear that the 'shape of the minds' of most BK Hindus, especially uneducated woman, are in the shape of a Krishna Bhagat and the BKs exploit this by merely swapping Lekhraj Kirpalani for Krishna. No other mental change is required. In my opinion, most of them are still doing Krishna worship and the recent.

What interested me about the Advance Knowledge is that despite the fact that I have never taken the course and never had any direct contact with Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs say almost the same thing. It's logical and obvious. It's Krishna worship to which they have recently added themselves as the other 16,000 + deities.

As far as the BK Islam concept goes, it also makes sense and it is not unique to BKism. Elsewhere it is called "correspondences" ... symbolic reflections. It is congruent with The Knowledge that if the branch are to reach out of the seed and trunk, each religious tendency will be prevalent within the BK religion.

Why fight that? It is not a bad thought.

Whereas most BKs exist within the broad base of Hinduistic lifestyle, some BK tend to a Buddhistic, Islam or Christian way.

What is incorrect about that? Nothing.

If one also accepts the facts that Bharat was invaded by the Mughals, would it also not be logical that the BKWSU would at some point be over run by BK-style Mughal Islam-ites? Personally, I think there are numerous factions within the BKs; Islam-ites, Vatican-ites, Sanyasins and so on and they are all conflicting slight with each other for power. At present the biggest one is the struggle between BK Islam-ites and the BK Vatican-ites.

Can you understand that on a metaphorical level?

Where do you fit in the tree? Why are you upset at this? The PBKs of Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be blame for trying to see the truth, nor pointing it out.

The high ranking BKs are just acting like a vain and pompous high caste who don't like their dirt and hypocrisies pointed out.
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mbbhat
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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2012

Dear fluffy soul,

the pictures what you have posted need not represent Bhakti .It is INTOXICATION that we are going to become deities.

In one Murli Baba has said- if you have intoxication that you become so, take your photo with deity dress and see it oftenly.

And these photos will automatically do service a lot,since it would directly give the message that human can become deities.

-------------
Dear Arjun soul,
The Murli points you have posted are not at all new to me. They inform 1)respect should be given to Sakar and 2)Just Sakar should not be remembered.

It neither says - one should remember ShivBaba is Chariot, nor says one should not have those photos.

There are Murli points that says- do not keep photo of Brahma , but another one that- you should keep to give knowledge to others.

Any how, continue.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2012

Intoxication is just the word or concept the BKs want people to think but realistically what is going on is that they are superimposing the ideas onto their own mind and the minds of the general public.

It would be very, very, very difficult to argue against the view that BK worship Lekhraj Kirpalani as Krishna and the senior sisters. We all know they do, they even call them "worshippers" or, e.g. "Dadi Bhagats".

By present these forms to the general public, they are trying to superimpose themselves onto already existing shapes in the mind of the general public and use the mental conditioning of Hinduism to their benefit ... i.e. that we are the deities. They are not.


Most Western BKs also think that the Indian portrayal of deities and Sat Yuga is naive, ugly and childish (it is full of Aryan cultural prejudices), and they strongly hope (they say know) that the real heaven does not look like that.

Honestly, it is not only ridiculous ... in a country where millions of children still starve to death it is an obscene waste of money.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2012

Murli point- sabhi drama ke vash may hain = all are in bondage of drama.

Baba has said- those BKs who do faults will have to face tribunals. It is there for them.
Even if you shout or not.

So are the BKs. And you know- just 108 pass without punishment! So- majority of BKs will fail!!
Murli point says- if you need to see highly intellectuals, they are here. Also if you need to see highly foolish (mahaamoorkh), they are here (BKWSU).

So- your and PBKs' comments are perhaps silly to me.
-------

rmn

Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by rmn » 03 Aug 2012

I HAVE SENT THE PHAMPLET TO KARUNA FOR CONFIRAMATION ALL ARE REQUESTED TO WAIT TILL REPLY COMES FROM HIM.
BY SEEING THIS PHAMPLET PBKs ARE VERY HAPPY THAT, BKs ARE BELONG STO Muslim, AND PBKs ARE COMING IN SATYAUG. PL WAIT SOME TIME.
THANQ

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Aug 2012

rmn wrote:BY SEEING THIS PHAMPLET PBKs ARE VERY HAPPY THAT, BKs ARE BELONG STO Muslim, AND PBKs ARE COMING IN SATYAUG. PL WAIT SOME TIME.
No, that is not what the PBKs think.

Even thought I am not a PBK, I can understand what they are saying and that is not what they are saying. You are only advertising your own ignorance and stupidity if you say so. I also understand that
  • a) the Seniors at the BKWSU study elements of Advance Knowledge, so they know what Virendra Dev Dixit is saying (although they hide this from BK followers), and
    b) Karuna has relatives who are in the PBKs and so much know very well.
You should ask a PBK for clarification politely firm before advertising your prejudices.

It strikes me most of the BKs' response to the PBKs is based on stupidity and ignorance and done is a very disrespectful manner and is not divine in anyway at all.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 04 Aug 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:Honestly, it is not only ridiculous ... in a country where millions of children still starve to death it is an obscene waste of money.
I agree and this is why no kind of Bhakti ritual is followed by PBKs and this avoidance of Bhakti rituals has been consistent ever since AIVV has started. I have myself been with the AIVV for nearly two decades and have seen that all forms of Bhakti have been consistently avoided. There may be Bhakti sanskars in individual PBKs but at the organization level every effort is made to avoid wasteful Bhakti rituals whereas ever since Dada Lekhraj has left his body Bhakti rituals have been continuously increasing.

The photos that you have uploaded are from a recent programme held in Madhuban where nearly 1600 BK teachers who have completed around 20 years of service as a surrendered sister were honoured. Each teacher was given around 40 gifts (including a golden badge worth 15000 rupees and other household articles) but I have come to know that most of those teachers gave to Janki Dadiji (as a representative of the Yagya) more amount than the worth of those gifts. This is nothing but the foundation of giving and taking that takes place in the path of Bhakti. This exchange of money and gifts sounds hardly appropriate since the teachers and Dadi, both are part of the Yagya. If the teachers were to be really honoured, they should have been strictly asked not to give any amount. The teachers collected amount from the BKs, gave to Madhuban and got back gifts and then again organized programmes in their respective centers to show the gifts to all their students. What does all this have to do with knowledge? Anyway, Baba has said that those who wish to do Bhakti may continue to do so.

Many poor teachers who could not collect the requisite amount missed the chance to be honoured (although they wanted to be there) and there were also some such wealthy teachers who did not like this Bhakti ritual and did not attend this function deliberately.

I have come to know that the next programme on the agenda of BKWSU is to honour those teachers who have completed more than 30 years of being surrendered. Naturally, the amount to be exchanged and the number of gifts will be bigger and more attractive. ;-)

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2012

Honestly, it is not only ridiculous ... in a country where millions of children. still starve to death it is an obscene waste of money.
BKs do not create additional children to add into population to create children.

Why even poor people still create children in this country?

I think it is better to join ANNA HAJARE's movement for those who comment like this on BKs.
-----
But I also have raised voice against this programme with some senior sisters who asked money to donate to Madhuban to participate for the above programme.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Aug 2012

arjun wrote:The photos that you have uploaded are from a recent programme held in Madhuban where nearly 1600 BK teachers who have completed around 20 years of service as a surrendered Sister were honoured. Each teacher was given around 40 gifts (including a golden badge worth 15000 rupees ..)
Excuse me, are you writing real gold ? What is the point?

15,000 rupees is $ 269 (USD) ... are you sure? That is a total $ 430,450 on jewellery alone.

If that is true, it is evil and insane. The BKs have learned another trick to accumulate more money.

In India, 32% of the total Indian people earn less than $ 1.25 per day while 51% live on less than $ 2 per day. 42.5% of children suffer from malnutrition, 2.1 million dying before reaching they reach the age of 5 every year (i.e. four every minute).
mbbhat wrote:Why even poor people still create children in this country?
That is easy, it has been shown time and time again ... lack of (real) education, especially the lack of education of women. Whenever social workers start education programmes of basic literacy, birth rates drop. Real education and real empowerment of women, and not more parasitical medieval religion.

The other major contributing factor are welfare/pension programmes. Poor people need children to support them in old age. Experience has taught them some will die, and so they need to produce some extra to cover for that. If the BKs carried out real social work, and used the wealth of their followers selfishly for good, I would have no criticism of them.

In fact, this is the reason I left them.

Child malnutrition rate in India is twice as great as sub-Saharan Africa ... one of those badges could have fed a child for a year. I'd respect the BKs more if they just adopted and educated orphans ... even if they indoctrinated them.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2012

"Bahut bachchey saadhaaran roop dekh moonjhtey hain, ultaa bolney lag padtey hain. Achchey-achchey bachchey unko bhi Maya chamaat maar deti hai. Samajhtey hain – bas jo kuch hai niraakaar hee hai. So toh theek hai na. Niraakaar nahee hota toh ham tum kaisey hotey. Parantu niraakaar ko toh rath jaroor chaahiye na. Rath bigar kya karengey, ShivBaba kya karega? Rath may aaye tab toh tum unsay milengey. Tumhee say sunoon, tumhee say baithoon. Toh rath jaroor chaahiye na. Achcha saakaar bigar niraakaar ko Yaad kar dikhaao. Kya tumko gyaan prernaa say milega? Fir merey paas aaye hee kyon ho? Yah Baba bhi kahta hai ki varsa toh ShivBaba say lena hai. ShivBaba kahtey hain mai is saadhaaran tan may baith padhaataa hoon. Padhaai toh jaroor chaahiye na. Bahut achchey-achchey bachhon ka maatha hee fir jaataa hai. Doh-chaar center kholtey toh bas ahankaar aa jaataa hai. Fir ultaa boltey rahtey hain. Fir kabhi buddhi may aa bhi jaataa hai ki yah hamney theek nahee kahaa, fir pashchaataap kartey hain. Baba kahtey hain mai saakaar bigar kaisey samjhaaunga. Ismay prernaa kee toh baat hee nahee." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 22.09.07, pg 2&3)

• “Many children get confused on seeing the ordinary form; they start speaking in an opposite way. Maya slaps even the nice children. They think – the incorporeal one is everything. That is alright, isn’t it? Had the incorporeal one not been there, how could I or you have existed? But the incorporeal one certainly requires a Chariot, doesn’t He? What can He do without a Chariot? What can ShivBaba do? Only when He comes in a Chariot that you can meet Him. (It is said that) “I shall listen only to you, I shall sit only with you.” So, the Chariot is certainly required, isn’t it? OK, remember the incorporeal without the corporeal and show. Will you get knowledge through inspiration? Then why did you come to me in the first place? This Baba also says that the inheritance has to be obtained from ShivBaba. ShivBaba says I sit in this ordinary body and teach. Knowledge is certainly required, isn’t it? The brains of very nice children get twisted. No sooner than they open two-four centers they become egotistic. Then they keep speaking in an opposite way. Then sometimes it even comes to their intellect that whatever they spoke was not proper. Then they repent. Baba says how will I explain without the corporeal (medium)? There is no question of inspiration in this at all.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.09.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs)
----------
It is clearly seen here that- Baba has spoken so for those who are egoistic and do not have respect to the Chariot. Hence Baba has spoken so.

Else- why should Baba speak in every and almost Murlis that- you should forget body and all bodily relations and even the Chariot?

Anyhow- it is up to PBKs to take meaning according to their judgement.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 04 Aug 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:Excuse me, are you writing real gold ? What is the point?
Yes, in fact I came to know that Dadi Janaki was not in favour of giving real gold badges, but Sister Munni (Dadi Prakashmani's close aide) persuaded her for this.
At the time of surrender ceremony BK teachers are given gold plated badges. But this time it was real. I don't know the logic behind this. If any teacher loses her badge due to any reason, the Yagya stands to lose more than 15000 rupees. When Baba has said in the Murlis that losing even a handkerchief is an indication of body consciousness, then is not wearing golden badges and then losing it body consciousness?

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2012

If any teacher loses her badge due to any reason, the Yagya stands to lose more than 15000 rupees. When Baba has said in the Murlis that losing even a handkerchief is an indication of body consciousness, then is not wearing golden badges and then losing it body consciousness?
Murli point- when you become world emperor, why should you bother about some loss? And if you are content your expenditure is safal (correct).

But more problematic is- can then the BK sisters be carefree while walking, or moving anywhere? I think this is a great Maya.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 04 Aug 2012

Murli point- when you become world emperor, why should you bother about some loss?
We haven't become yet. So, every paisa counts. Moreover, we are sevadharis (servants) not emperors in this Confluence Age.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Aug 2012

If any teacher loses her badge due to any reason, the Yagya stands to lose more than 15,000 rupees. When Baba has said in the Murlis that losing even a handkerchief is an indication of body consciousness, then is not wearing golden badges and then losing it body consciousness?
mbbhat wrote:Murli point- when you become world emperor, why should you bother about some loss? And if you are content your expenditure is safal (correct).

But more problematic is- can then the BK Sisters be carefree while walking, or moving anywhere? I think this is a great Maya
Thank you for being honest and reasonable in this second point. It would have been my response ... and makes me thing the badges will spend most of their time locked away in a box and only brought out for special occasions like ceremonial medals.

Elsewhere, I was reading an article by Kailash Satyarthi, founder of Bachpan Bachao Andolan (Save the Childhood Movement), about how it only costs 1,000 to 3,000 rupees to buy a child slave in Bihar or Nepal. For the price of one badge, 5 to 15 children's lives could be saved.

Bachpan Bachao Andolan has saved about 80,000 children so far but up to 200,000 children a year fall into the hands of slave traders. For the price of these badges, the BKs could have saved them all.

mbbhat, I think you misinterpret that Murli point. Of course, I have read many Murli points and stories encouraging BK to be careful with resources, e.g. I remember BKs being encouraged not to waste single grains of rice whilst washing them under the threat of losing jewellery in the Golden Age for each one.

I suspect in such a quote he is consoling someone who has lost something not to worry, rather than encouraging people to be careless or extravagant.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 06 Aug 2012

There is another Murli point that says- If your time and thought sbecome safal (fruitful), then all other things are automatically fruitful

So- I think unless one's time and thoughts do not become safal, ball always lies in his court, even if he points on others.

And , there is a Murli point- khaavo, peevo, ghoomo, etc but remember Baba.

And one more, if you have money, you may travel even in aeroplane.

Another Murli point- Baba does not prohibit anything except - Biscope (cinema).

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