Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Dec 2012

mbbhat wrote:2)PBKs believe that- entrance of Krishna can be predicted means entrance of soul of DL in Gulzar Dadi can be predicted.

Now- would they like to predict about next turns? are they going to happen practically or going to miss like the first two?
It's not the PBKs that are doing the predicting in advance ... or rather scheduling.

It is the BKs who are doing the scheduling in advance, in contradiction to what the Murlis say.

This is what we would call a "false premises" and "shifting the blame". It's typical of the way you discuss ... it's illogical. Messy, tiresome mud-flinging rather than a clean, congruent argument.
** -Do in lowkik world, when ghosts enter in a person, they whisper?
If you believe in spirit possession or mediumship and that it is spirit possession or mediumship ... then the answer is, "yes, in some cases" but there is a great variety in the way it manifests all over the world.

You should study it in order to compare spirit possession and mediumship within the BKWSU.

Of course, many or even most people don't believe in spirits or mediumship and think it is just some kind of trick, acting, or mental illness.

Angels of light can also be evil. Satan was an angel and many fell when he left God's side.
mbbhat wrote:Anyhow, for me it is- Waah Baba, Waah drama.
"Waah, waah, Baba, Waah ..." is precisely the noise an infant or baby makes in English when it is upset or crying.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by mbbhat » 10 Dec 2012

Dear complete FB soul,

Recently you had asked around two to three questions without knowing the front end or back end when i had done discussion. Here also the case is similar

You had not understood at all.

All the best.

And- very much thank you for the personal comment once gain.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by arjun » 10 Dec 2012

mbbhat wrote:You only had written to my post in some topic- -Murli says Krishna's birth can be predicted as "entrance in Dadi can be predicted "
There is no use explaining to you. You simply don't understand simple English. So, please continue to write whatever you wish. :cool:

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by Roy » 11 Dec 2012

A few points on the angelic or Avyakt stage...

“Farishta (angel) means those who remain detached from this vicious world, i.e. vicious atmosphere, vicious vibrations, vicious (human) nature & resolves, vicious vision or thoughts. They remain detached from all these matters. They always remain beloved for Father and Father remains beloved for them ... Just as Father comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service and not as a part of karmic bondage and they become detached whenever they wish. Are you free from such karmic bondages? This is only called farishta (angel).” [Av 17.10.81]

"Angels mean those who are detached from the physical body, those who always have a body of light. Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba Krishna did, in 1968/69)? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma(Prajapita-Ram, after intensely studying the Murli for 5-6 years, from 1969/70) became Avyakt (i.e. renounced the corporeal world intellectually, whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]


With regard to the whispering BapDada point...

"You are wondering why Baba is not speaking more loudly. According to the sanskar over a long period of time, when Baba comes into the corporeal from the subtle, it does not seem right to speak loudly. All of you gradually have to conduct your activities through signals while going beyond sound. You have to practise this. Do you understand?" [Av 01.03.09; 19.06.70]

For me this is definately a yukti of getting around the problem of Brahma Baba Krishna speaking in such a strained manner. It is not actually a natural whisper; it appears that it is very hard for Brahma Baba Krishna, to speak any louder or more fully than he does through Dadi Gulzar... it is not a choice for him to speak in this way, imo. I am not saying that what is said in this point is not accurate... because we shouldn't speak loudly unnecessarily, or speak at all when it is not necessary... But as Arjun Bhai has mentioned... we cannot go around whispering to each other either, as that would be most impractical. No, this point is sidestepping the issue(probably for very good reasons to do with the children's faith and stability at this difficult time in the Yagya), by using truth to hide another truth; which is that Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna, can speak no other way through Dadi Gulzar than he does; probably because his subtle body affects Dadi's vocal chords. This phenomena is accurate in drama; because it simply proves that Father Shiv does not enter Dadi Gulzar, along with Avyakt Brahma Baba; as otherwise no such problem would arise; due to the fact that the incorporeal stage that Father Shiv always remains in; would naturally draw Brahma Baba into this stage also; thus negating his subtle body temporarily; and therefore no loss of voice power would occur.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Dec 2012

Roy wrote:For me this is definately a yukti of getting around the problem of Brahma Baba Krishna speaking in such a strained manner. It is not actually a natural whisper; it appears that it is very hard for Brahma Baba Krishna, to speak any louder ... it is not a choice for him to speak in this way ... it simply proves that Father Shiv does not enter Dadi Gulzar.
So far, mbbhat has established that as far as he is concerned,
  • a) it is perfectly acceptable for Lekhraj Kirpalani/Shiv to lie
    b) it is perfectly acceptable for Lekhraj Kirpalani/Shiv to make false statements
    c) it is perfectly acceptable for Lekhraj Kirpalani/Shiv/the BKWSU leadership to change these at a later date
and yet the utterances still to be consider true, the pathway to truth, and to an Age of Truth.

How can one engage with such a mentality in which falsehood can be truth, and the fixed and eternal be changeable without any concern for the wholeness and integrity of those that speak and teach it?

You may a well just say, "anything is anything and everything is nothing".

I, personally, cannot believe God lies or tricks humans into believing in either himself or the truth. This idea has come into Brahma Kumaris from Hindu Bhakti and is not Gyani. It comes primarily from Krishna Bhakti in which Krishna is a thief, a tricksters, a seducer of women, proud and warlike and so on.

BKs believe Bhakti is a memorial of them and the Confluence Age ... but only the bits they find flattering! BKs are still doing Krishna Bhakti but projected at Lekhraj Kirpalani.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by Roy » 11 Dec 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:BKs believe Bhakti is a memorial of them and the Confluence Age ... but only the bits they find flattering! BKs are still doing Krishna Bhakti but projected at Lekhraj Kirpalani.
There is no doubt this is true... and what i find interesting is the fact that Brahma Baba Krishna the mother, is talking to his children as parents do now in the larger world. They protect their children from the truth, by telling them "white lies"; so that this tradition imo, starts here in the Confluence Age, as do all other things... good or bad.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by mbbhat » 12 Dec 2012

So far, mbbhat has established that as far as he is concerned,
thank you for following me.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by warrior » 13 Dec 2012

Explanation as per BKs of what went on the 30th/11/12.
Nirwair bhai.PNG

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by arjun » 13 Dec 2012

Om Shanti. The explanation being offered by BKWSU for the act of vanishing by Avyakt BapDada is totally misplaced. When Brahma Baba was alive, BKs did not used to know that when Father Shiva entered and when He departed from Brahma Baba's body. It is only when knowledge used to be given through his mouth that BKs used to know that yes, ShivBaba is speaking through him. There used to be no change in voice or facial expressions when ShivBaba was present or when ShivBaba wasn't present. Moreover, ShivBaba could narrate knowledge through Brahma Baba anywhere and anytime, but in case of Gulzar Dadi none of the above criteria apply. When BapDada vanished for nearly ten minutes during the Avyakt Vani dated 30th Nov, 2012, Gulzar Dadiji started speaking in her original voice while BapDada speaks in whispers. Had it been Supreme Soul Shiv speaking through her, then she should not speak in whispers, the entry and exit of Shiv should not be pre-determined/predicted and Shiv should be able to speak through her anytime or anywhere. But sadly none of this happens. But despite clear indications in the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis BKs are unable to realize that it is just the soul of Brahma Baba and not Father Shiv speaking through Dadi Gulzar.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by mbbhat » 14 Dec 2012

arjun wrote: When Brahma Baba was alive, BKs did not used to know that when Father Shiva entered and when He departed from Brahma Baba's body. It is only when knowledge used to be given through his mouth that BKs used to know that yes, ShivBaba is speaking through him. There used to be no change in voice or facial expressions when ShivBaba was present or when ShivBaba wasn't present. Moreover, ShivBaba could narrate knowledge through Brahma Baba anywhere and anytime, 2)but in case of Gulzar Dadi none of the above criteria apply. ...
Behaviour of parents with children changes as the children grow. So- after 1969, BapDada's way of meeting children can change. It depends on drama. [even after 1969, there had been great changes. initially, BapDada would had milan for 40 times a year, used to give toli, etc. Murli was lengthy. now, reduced number of milans and also duration]

If PBKs like to compare the old with the new, is it not their responsibility to compare fully?.

1)In olden days, BapDada was not reading something and explaining (like what Mr. dixit is doing).

2) Baba used to say- bachche, bachche, But dixit never speaks so.


[these are already these things are discussed, so no point in argument. But, just pointing that- PBKs wish to take half knowledge - what suits to their needs.

It is OK. Left to them.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by arjun » 14 Dec 2012

1)In olden days, BapDada was not reading something and explaining (like what Mr. dixit is doing).

2) Baba used to say- bachche, bachche, But dixit never speaks so.
Already discussed and answered several times. You are free to have your beliefs.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by mbbhat » 14 Dec 2012

Already discussed and answered several times. You are free to have your beliefs.
i had already said it in the last post in this topic. What is the need of you to say it again?

But, I just pointed there that PBKs take only half truth. and we know that half is dangerous.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by arjun » 14 Dec 2012

Om Shanti.

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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by arjun » 16 Dec 2012

Om Shanti. The Hindi version of the second Avyakt Vani of the season dated 15.12.12 is attached herewith.
OGS,
Arjun
AV-15-12-12-Hindi.pdf
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Re: Avyakt Bap-Dada Season 2012-13

Post by warrior » 19 Dec 2012

Om Shanti everyone
04 - Avyakt Murli - 15-12-12 - English.pdf
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