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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2006

amaranthine wrote:In the Light of Meditation

This is a BK book (Gyan) published by a lokik publishing house. Are you suggesting that its given away for free?
No.
  • a) I am just asking how the money is split and where it goes. A bit of transparency in the family business and a clarification of the Maryadas as they now stand.

    b) how the decisions are made over who gets to sell Gyan and use it for their own personal and professional advantage and who does not.
There is talk-talk and walk-walk. If Mike is unpaid, surrendered, taken care of like the senior sisters, all his revenue going back into the organization, then I might be tempted to withdraw 'some' of my criticisms. But not all. The danger is these people are setting an example of what BK Raja Yoga is and there are many a young BK that are now following them into the woods.
button slammer wrote:My prediction is that Mike George will assume control when Dadi Janki retires. I suspect that through the use of NLP Mike has 'primed' the power badges for his imminent take over. They know it will be in the best interests of all concerned parties. :|
Can we have a Murli point on that!?!

Nah, not without a sex change operation. Remember, they have to keep the "sisters up front" PR image. They have invested too much PR in promoting that. Even if it is the brothers that run the business and make the pay offs behind the scenes.

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Re: Mike George Lies [ ...ooops spin ] and BKWSU copyrightin

Post by amaranthine » 01 Oct 2006

amaranthine wrote:This is a BK book (Gyan) published by a lokik publishing house
ex-l wrote:To counter amaranthine's point, the book introduces God, Cycle, Golden Age and all the rest

Funny, i thought counter indicated an opposite view. looks to me like we are of the same opinion! as far as i am aware the publishing rights to this book are with the BK organisation.

Anyway, I am getting a bit weary of all these long (and in my opinion slightly neurotic) posts. to an outsider i think it's beginning to look like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and a massive axe to grind, and for want of a better word, all these anti-bk posts are beginning to look like a personal crusade which is far more rooted in your personal experience than it is in reality.

Of course, this is all my opinion and not fact, so i hope you see it as such and there is no steam coming out of your ears right now (you do come across as being a very angry young man).

Funny thing is, i really like your old school bk values - as i see them, and look forward to seeing your posts - the ones that don't seem so neurotic that is. so from now on i will engage in discussions about Gyan rather than how the bk organisation is currently run.

i will finish by saying that the whipping up of this anti bk-administration feeling is only how i see it and i do find it wearing - but again this is only my opinion.

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Re: Mike George Lies [ ...ooops spin ] and BKWSU copyrightin

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2006

amaranthine wrote:Funny thing is, I really like your old school BK values - as I see them, and look forward to seeing your posts - the ones that don't seem so neurotic that is. so from now on I will engage in discussions about Gyan rather than how the BK organisation is currently run.

Well, thanks for the positive affirmation on that first aspect ... that post was not discussion which is why I took it off as a new topic. I apologise if I should have taken your name off it, you seemed to be covering up for Mike but if what you are saying is that you think some of what he is doing is wrong, then thank you again. I'd rather be neurotic than collude with the hypocrisy any day. Personally, I feel fine. I am not angry at all. I am absolutely right about the values involved here and such stuff is light entertainment to me. Its probably Kali Yugi of me, but really enjoy farce and satire.

I am the neurotic one or am I just exposing the corporate neurosis?

I might admit up to a little contempt and disgust at the double values the BKWSU express. But that is only from a Brahmin point of view. The rest of the world must be asking what on earth is this all about. It only takes sitting with a coffee, spending 5 minutes on Google to see what contortions of reality, spiritual dishonesty the BKWSU is up to. The rest of the world is starting to know. The real problem, and what is quite emblematic of the times, is that the BKWSU will play to values and sensibilities of the high status Shudras they suck up to for a sympathy factor and ignore or suppress the Brahmin values we are talking about here.

Poor them ... some embittered, *neurotic* failed ex-member flaming them on the internet over things they say they stopped believing in long ago. But you and I and they know it is not true and it is all still going on inside. The whole world is mad. The question is can we get the rest of the world to buy our madness and how much will they pay? Where this does not equate to other's money, it might equate to other's time and adulation

If I can flood the search engines with a counter balance to their PR spin, so that the World starts asking questions, then may be we will see some overdue change from within. Trust me, I am all about Positive change, Values Education, Hope and Vision. And why should Mike and those other senior Wesern BKs care? If he has bunged up a quarter of a million plus from selling Gyan, launched a career coaching executives on Positive Thinking at hundreds an hour, they can disassociate themselves from Gyan or the BKWSU and just get on with Plan B of making money, investing in property, doing and having nice things at other's expenses. Just like the BKWSU are.

I wonder if they would hire a Shudra lawyer and use Shudra law against a Brahmin who was exposing them for breaking Brahmin law? What is worst is that I think is that I am going to end up become a proctologist in the Golden Age if I carry on. I have spent such a long time looking up their behinds. That is IF the Golden Aged deities have "procts" that require inspecting.

" Aye, the younger generation ... tut tut tut ... they don't make Brahmins like they used to do in the old days ... why I remember when you used to be able to get 20 BKs to turns up for a service programme, work for 40 hours unpaid, talk Hindu all night for free, screw up their day jobs for some casual hand to hand existence, call themselves "BK" and wear Om Shanti badges at all time." Ah ... those were the good old days.

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Post by john » 01 Oct 2006

amaranthine wrote:Anyway, I am getting a bit weary of all these long (and in my opinion slightly neurotic) posts. To an outsider, I think it's beginning to look like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and a massive axe to grind,
I think it will be more than ex-l grinding axes, if the BK organisation is revealed to be misguiding souls.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Oct 2006

John wrote:I think it will be more than ex-l grinding axes, if the BK organisation is revealed to be misguiding souls.
Here is another images from Mike George's book. I'd say that looks like Shiva and straight Gyan to me.

Image

I think the problem is arising that there are so many so called Brahmins or Raja Yogis coming through the Self Management, Positive Thinking routes that they really don't know what BK or Raja Yoga is any more. The cult aspect has become so large that the Seniors have lost control and are out of touch with the low rank BK hordes. And why should they care if tasty little business rewards are doled out to their favourites?

The Seniors are riding along on the elephant of inertia they have built up - unaccountable to any questioning nevermind criticism - guided by their little elephant drivers like Mike George, Brian Bacon and the rest. As long as they can keep a critical mass of individuals engaged in BKWSU with new ones coming in to match the old ones leaving - and the donations flowing in - its "business as usual". And that is all you get out of them. The same old show, platitudes and dismissed if you ask any deeper question.

In my opinion, the only evolution is in the PR department but the Dadis and the BKWSU do seem to have made some entire 'volte face' change of positions against both the Murlis but also their own Shrimat. If they were wrong in the past, does that mean they can be wrong in the present? Shiva seems to be increasingly written out, Lekhraj Kirpalani written in as some Guru/Saint figure.

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Re: Mike George Lies [ ...ooops spin ] and BKWSU copyrightin

Post by button slammer » 03 Oct 2006

I think it's beginning to look like you have a massive chip on your shoulder and a massive axe to grind, and for want of a better word, all these anti-BK posts are beginning to look like a personal crusade which is far more rooted in your personal experience than it is in reality.

If you actually manage to catch hold of what ex-l is really saying, and not let it whooosh!! over your purple rinse ,you might appreciate the wisdom of his threads. You have failed miserably to apprehend even the basic premise of what ex-l is trying to say, ie that hypocrosy exists in such an appalling manner it is a wonder that any one can stick out the corruption, decadence and self aggrandisment that is rife within the BK world.

I doubt whether ex-l is anti BK perhaps just anti BS. A healthy, thriving, happy organisation should be able to take any form of criticism, at any level and be all the better for it, and all concerned parties should benefit. The experiences of many XBKs as demonstrated via the forum has shown just how various members have been treated by the organisation. Perhaps you should have a 'reality check' yourself and ponder why this forum has come to be?
Of course, this is all my opinion and not fact, so I hope you see it as such and there is no steam coming out of your ears right now (you do come across as being a very angry young man).

Pompass people don't like satire. You come accross as being a mindless corporate zombie, souless, clueless, and ruthless in vacuous obedience.
Funny thing is, I really like your old school BK values - as I see them, and look forward to seeing your posts - the ones that don't seem so neurotic that is. so from now on I will engage in discussions about Gyan rather than how the BK organisation is currently run.

So, you're saying, 'please keep posts soft, frilly, sanitised, odour free, and spineless'. Whats 'wrong' with neurotic anyway. Apart from it being a way for you to dumb down a serious body of work. Its a way of beginning the debunking process. Discredit and disgrace the researcher by applying demeaning and dehumanising labels whilst mixed with facile praise. Ha! It is clear just who is avoiding their own complexes and neurosis here.
I will finish by saying that the whipping up of this anti BK-administration feeling is only how I see it and I do find it wearing - but again this is only my opinion.
Well, perhaps ex-l has got you 'all whipped up' breathless/wearing, whatever. Anyone who has practised the stage of 'detached observer' can enjoy the sight of a rare white elephant, lumbering around the circus ring performing tricks whenever the corporate ringmaster cracks the whip. Bring on the clowns....

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Re: Mike George Lies [ ...ooops spin ] and BKWSU copyrightin

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2006

button slammer wrote:A healthy, thriving, happy organisation should be able to take any form of criticism, at any level and be all the better for it, and all concerned parties should benefit. The experiences of many XBKs as demonstrated via the forum has shown just how various members have been treated by the organisation.

Bring on the clowns....
I'd like to say nothing ... but I've got this big red nose that goes oink-oink, size 40 flat feet, a big painted smile on my face and if the Elephants have left the ring and someone has cleared up their doo-doo, I'll come on and do my tricks.

The funny thing is, what I have been churning on and trying to practise is the separation of personal, and even collective good, from individual and collective evil. It a Buddhist principle or meditation known as "The Great Ball of Merit"; the total good to which everyone contributes. Even Nazis, criminals or CEOs did and do do good. We have to acknowledge and accept that good, not condemning the individuals just because of some vice they still have.

On the other hand, I have also been looking at the role and value of intent and how it colors and spoils even the best executed actions. BKs, and the BKWSU, are not the worst people on Earth. Without any doubt, individually and collectively they have done some good. But what is the purpose and value of that good IF it is intended to promote the greatest of falsehoods or wrongs?

A grandmother gives baby some sweeties ... A pedophile gives baby some sweeties ... A businessman takes Daddy's money off baby for some sweeties at a profit knowing they are tooth rotting ... and even better businessman takes Daddy's money off baby promising to give baby even better sweets tomorrow ... Each way the kids gets some sweets [may be] but can we say the results of those actions are all good or equal?

Now, this is satire alert ... I think I might have made a factual error above and the quotation should have looked like this;
BK Mike George wrote:Why ... Raja Yoga meditation!
How much can I make from this course?


Image
Mike, please take the opportunity to enlighten us in person.
  • • What commission are you paying the BKWSU for the franchise?
    • What commission is the Oxford Leadership Academy paying the BKWSU for the use of the premises, the hand picked, head-hunted partners and the business referals?
I mean ... fair's fair ... business is business ... its a man's world and all that.

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greed

Post by sparkal » 04 Oct 2006

MG came around these parts a few years ago selling his latest book (at the time). It was an official BK event, promoted by the center. They used my mic and PA, I did not get any money for it, nor did I want any, Hey!, George!, I want my cut!. This con needs to be dealt with. How many others can we expect to see sell, off the BK back?

There are more grey areas in this area than on heads in church on a Sunday morning. A quarter of a mill? and counting. Enjoy, while you can. At least Raj neesh had the decency to leave after taking the course before earning his Rolls roices, hareem etc. It makes me wonder about the guilt trip in these individuals involved in all of this. I presume one can always find a way of justifying anything, including ******** in the Subtle Regions (class comment by the way) Heh heh.

peace.

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Re: greed

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Oct 2006

sparkal wrote:How many others can we expect to see sell, off the BK back?
Good to see you ruining your stage by lurking around this forum Sparkal.

I am going to be going back to the Far East from the States soon and so I am limited as to what I can find out. In Singapore, the centres are pretty humble just like the people there in general. There are definitely some young BK in the US that have their ambitions set to follow the mold, or is that mould, Mike, Brian and the others are creating. You see the roll out in India targetted at higher education rather than name and fame service.

I find it hard to believe that any of the Indian BKs would be allowed to use the centers networks or equipment to promote their own business, or be used if they were to go back and teach "Bhakti". God, do you remember how the sisters used to come down on you if you had any independent or classical thouhgt!?! So, it might just be a white boy thing and the Indians over there might just be seduced by the PR value/glamour of it. They always like using white boys to beef up their credibility to other Indians. Light skin = high status. Personally, I don't think you white Brahmins really saw what was going on because you were just seduced in return by the whole exotic "Indian" thing.

I don't want to point fingers, I just want to understand the truth, the internal system and what is really going on. I am genuinely disappointed to discover all this secrecy, multi-level communications stuff. I should have woken up to the class system within the BKWSU a long time ago. It was always an US and THEM situation, I remember that. we were there to be used and kept down.

I am shocked at what I see the audacity of these individuals and the duplicity of the Seniors. I remember when if you so much mentioned you were into music or a band Dadi Janki etc would dismiss you as though you were filth ... ditto if you wanted to get into and start your own business. And now there she sits sucking up to CEOs and Bee-Gees, prepared to use the talent of ones that have "made it" where she would dismiss and supress one of her own that was aspiring. I don't believe there was/is any divinity in those decision nor personal interest in the student. It was "The Family Business" first, which is typical of Sindhis.

These guys just seem to have got the real agenda and had the balls to go for it. I'd just like to see them justify by the Knowledge. I think the Knowledge and Baba is being sidelined and what is being revealled is "The Business".

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Post by sparkal » 04 Oct 2006

I think that programme was an M George prog and the BKs were just helping??? I got a call a few hours before to help. I would do it again tomorow without conditions, help others. It is all confused as to who and what progs.

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MIKE GEORGE

Post by surya » 05 Oct 2006

Hi,

I received an invitation from Mike George for his Talk "In the light of Meditation", that is happening on Thursday 12/OCT 7pm-8:30pm at GCH.

If any one wants to go and face him, please do so.

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Post by sparkal » 06 Oct 2006

I am slightly confused, are you lot sure that the dinosaurs don't emerge at THIS time?

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Post by eromain » 06 Oct 2006

buttonslammer wrote:My prediction is that Mike George will assume control when Dadi Janki retires. I suspect that through the use of NLP Mike has 'primed' the power badges for his imminent take over. They know it will be in the best interests of all concerned parties
Hi Buttonslammer,

My concern with your statement above is that it might be read to imply that you have some information that Mike George uses (and indeed misuses) NLP. If you do then I think you owe it to him to state it, and if you do not I think you are doing him an injustice.
primal.logic wrote:Mike George is a spin doctor supreme. He and Jayanti have been ******** in the Subtle Regions for years. No surprise he gets the benefits he does.
Dear Primal,

If you have some solid information please share it otherwise the discussion will deteriorate into gratuitous and un-explained insults.

ex-l is in my opinion raising incredibly important issues and doing so with a rigour and thoughfulness that should not be diminished by lazy and inappropriate comments.

respectfully
eugene

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Oxford Set

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Oct 2006

eromain wrote: ex-l is in my opinion raising incredibly important issues and doing so with a rigour and thoughfulness that should not be diminished by lazy and inappropriate comments.
I will defend the two authors above. At least to the point of translating their cultural references into the valid and reasonable issues they are raising. I find this day and age where "how you say something" is more important that "what you are saying" and whether you were right and wrong. I am not easily offended and find "Political Correctness", and the policing of language, is largely a means of control by a particular class or classes over others far more offensive. I prefer the honesty and humor of the "common man".

Now, I don't know NLP, but I think what buttonslammer is doing here is actually quite sophisticated humor playing with NLP trigger words and making a very valid issue. As BK Raja Yogis train up in coaching and leaderships skill, they are making the use of other "non-Brahmin" skills to increase their status and effectiveness both within and without the organization. Individuals might not know they are being subjected to these. Mike and Brian are obviously pulling on a load of sources to do their thing, turbo-charging it with Gyan, and feeding it back into the BK order via their Self Management Leadership stuff. I see another BK offering services to executives definintely advertizing such skills or training. Funnily enough, I don't see anyone offering similar services for "the common man", so perhaps the common man does not have the same problems executives have.

Of course, some Brahmins have always had the benefit of a good "Kali Yugi" education and upbringing and this has always benefited them within the BK Family. Just as good looks or a good accent do. Indeed the Sindhi+Hindi BKWSU's success in the West may be partly due to the fact that we have no idea what they sound like. They may sound stupid, coarse or mundane in Hindi but to Westerners they have exotic mystique. Imagine Janki without Jayanti. The thought that the "Oxford Set" might be programming the "mind-control" BKs back is really quite funny, in a Dr Strangeglove kind of way.
  • • Perhaps we ought to agree that the use of a "smilie" signifies satire for those that are "irony-challenged" and disallows the post as a bit of light entertainment
Now as far as Mike George and Jayanti something in the Subtle Regions for years, I can see the ease at which such a comment might be used against the credibility of this forum and so it is up to the admins whether they delete it or not. It would be sad if they did not love each other. But the author makes two points here;
  • a) that certain BKs "court" or "bond" in a subtly way that is not particularly Brahmin and would be heavily criticized if they were junior BK souls.
    b) those BK that do "court" or "bond" successfully with Seniors are allowed privileges, such as using the charities' structure and equipment to benefit their own business.
This makes the Yagya a lot more ordinary that it wants to admit. If you were to ask me personally, I would agree with these statements and not merely in a heterosexual manner but also into a homosexual manner. Knowing human monkeys, it would be very difficult for there never to be. So if never is out, then sometimes is in. I would say for sure that the sister-in-charge of the centre I was at had a "thing" for me and it was to the demise of my spiritual welfare. We read of the opposite on this forum. Was it policed, discuss, even queried ... not to my knowledge. To this list, I would also add a;
  • c) that some Senior BKs also continue on such bonding activity with ex-BKs and use it for the sake of the organization's self interest. To put it bluntly, they pull on old heartstrings to get stuff they want, e.g information.
This is an issue that I raised in another thread, here remembering BK Denise raised questions about the sisters' use of female sexual energy and the motivation behind it. In the above comment, the allegorical reference to sex relates to the alleged exchange of energy between individuals and the alleged preferential treatment it is rewarded with. I think the point primal.logic is making is that with all the sexual supression in BY life, *something* is bound to compensate somewhere else. On one hand the attraction but what of incidents where there is clear sexual and emotional attraction but that the individual fights it by attacking the target of that attraction? That is the meat of another topic.

To return to this topic; it is safe for us to say that none of Brian Bacons and Mike Georges etc are channelling "God". I understand that they have and are being responsible for some of the re-engineering of BK. At the same time they are exploiting, and being exploited for, a position with status attached to it within the public eye where other BKs are/were being kept down. And they are acting, or being upheld, as successful role models for younger individuals coming into Gyan. If even some of the above is true, then it is fair play for there to be some public discussion of these matters, let alone independent discussion by their peers.

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Post by eromain » 07 Oct 2006

Dear ex-l ,

I have no wish to police anybody’s language. It is the substance of what they are saying rather than how they say it I am taking issue with. In my opinion to accuse named individuals in a public forum of such actions and intentions requires more than satire as its justification. I for one would like to know on what information their comments are based. Whether there is any kind of validity to their slurs is more important to me than the sophistication of their humour.

And yes there are important issues to discuss but you don’t just go out and give someone a kicking as a segue into them.

And especially when they havent put their real names to it.

Cheers
Eugene

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