BK participation in this forum

DEDICATED to BKs.
For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
worldpeace
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BK participation in this forum

Post by worldpeace » 07 Dec 2006

What we lack in this forum is a good participation by the BKs (Without discrediting a few who post). The BKs owe an answer any questions related to Gyan. I never tried asking the Seniors at the center and even when I did a few times, I was shrugged off saying that I will mature as I grow!

Now, this forum is overloaded with questions with no credible (from BKs) person to answer. ArjunBhai is doing a great service by getting questions answered from Virendra Dev Dixit. By credible I mean, an answer which doesn't include "as far as I know, IMO, if, might be" and so on. A simple straight forward answer institutionally edorsed by BK.

I know I am a little far fetched. But, if God kindled the quest for Gyan in us, it is His duty that He quenches them too.

God, get us some BKs in this forum who can take our questions to the Dadis/Seniors or to You and get it answered.


Thanks.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 26 Dec 2006

Can BKs come here peacefully? If one appears ... he’ll be overwhelmed with questions, mocking, abuses, accuses ... who likes that? So they, naturally, keep away. But, they are no less ... see ... one appeared ... and with one point (about the forum being impartial) he tore the whole forum, the administrator and the posters (the ones who post) into pieces.

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 26 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:Can BKs come here peacefully?....he tore the whole forum
Brother Andrey,
Do you mean that this BK had the wrong intention and did not come into this forum peacefully? Sure, there a lots of issues and questions, but any honest and effortmaking yogi should be able to handle any situation, pick up new things as well as learn from mistakes. Baba has said WE are to reveal Him to the world, so if we cannot even discuss His Gyan topics peacefully and deal with different mindsets in this world, how will He be revealed ? It is good charity to give, but the greatest charity is to give to the poor (poor = poor in knowledge and Yoga).

I think what people forget is that this is really an OPEN forum, this belongs to cyberspace, this is the WORLD WIDE WEB, and God oversees this tool and instrument. This forum is able to come straight at your face in your living room or at your office desk or even if you are siting on a bus. This technology is powerful, but only those with "power" in my opinion will be able to handle it.

I think that PBKs have learnt many things and thus are able to openly share on various issues. The other BKs who post are also courageous in that they can see the world greater than just what is within the BK walls. And ex-BKs who are still searching are really justifying to themselves if what they understand and understood is matched with what the BKs and/or PBKs understand. With the overall result a WIN-WIN situation for each person and thus the world.

worldpeace has summed it up well :
worldpeace wrote: if God kindled the quest for Gyan in us, it is His duty that He quenches them too.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 26 Dec 2006

No, no, i mean if one comes people will not talk to him peacefully because they think he is in the wrong, and will have the attitude towards him ... see ... you came here ... oh-ho ... now listen ... we'll teach you a lesson ... and will start accusations, abuses. Generally, everyone like peace and happiness. We seem to be OK here. What are they to come for? No one likes to enter a jungle. Why indulge in useless discussion? People here seem to have stable positions and don't seem to like to change it. Or will someone come with the attitude ... OK, let me learn something ... no everyone likes to teach.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:Can BKs come here peacefully? If one appears ... he’ll be overwhelmed with questions, mocking, abuses, accusation...
Personally, I thought the "impartial" thread was a very valid and good one. But the BK ... and we only have their word on HOW MUCH of a BK they were ... shot themselves in the foot by accusing eromain over the child abuse stuff. (But what else can one do when one believes in the literal BK understanding of karma?)

For me, the individual was a little warped. Without wanting to cause personal offense, typically warped for someone programmed by the BKWSU. Their intent to discredit was clear. They were unable to engage in open discussion because they knew that to do so was to dismantle much of the BK Knowledgebase and, with that, their personal faith, indentity and status. What could else could they do but attempt a "hit and run" attack? Like a dog barking at stranger it does not understand.

Could BKs come here peacefully? Of course.

If they come to learn, serve or even just "rest and recouperation" (to slack off and have a bit of a laugh at it all), we would welcome them. There is already some movement between who is ex-BK, who has gone back into the BKWSU, who has swayed over to the PBKs side. Mitra is humble and cheerful, they attract no or few problems. BKRY is courageous and independent, we miss her input and I do not remember her being treated with anything but respect. May be the Forum needs better discipline so that ex-BKs cannot post in the BK section and that section becomes more BK. But, like King Arthur to the sword in the rock, no BK has come forward to try to take it on.

The BKWSU will have to come in some manner. So far, from the very top (if the Global Chief of PR BK Karuna is near the top), it or BK individuals have come to attack some element of it. Even using dishonesty and false accusations in public. Manifestly, "The They" are ignoring it but covertly they are very conscious of it; watching, talking, planning to actively working against it, misinforming the rest of the BK world about it, just like they do other things.

It is a wonder "The They" have not tried to outrightly fight it ... but may be they will still yet. If there is any truth in all this stuff, they need to come to complete the picture.
Andrey wrote:Or will someone come with the attitude ... OK, let me learn something ... no everyone likes to teach.
You hit the nail on the head here but from my point of view, I reckon it is or would be a prime service field for them. Not just for we "failures" but also for the world watching us and them, which is part of what Bansy is saying. I also agree with her that this is a powerful crucible and that it would take BKs with a very pure and elevated stage to enter into it. Otherwise the alloy will definitely come out.

This is a world stage. Let us talk darna which is more universal. How do you think the darna of that BK, or the BKs in general, come out of all this looking?

I wonder what their Seniors or "Leadership Management" teaches them to do in such a situations as this?

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Post by bansy » 26 Dec 2006

Generally, everyone like peace and happiness.
Brother Andrey,
I agree. What is lacking in this forum is the so-called "Mother" (the warm loving) and "Father" (strict) roles of this forum. It is not the same enviroment as you would get in a centre. But there won't be in cyberspace. In other words, you are exposed in this jungle. On the battlefield of Kuruksetra (spellling ?) we each only have our weapons with us, physical and spiritual weapons. No punching below the belt though not all of us here worry about that physical aspect.

Actually, when we are on this forum, I see it more as a self-battleground. I make a post and send it to ... me. Since I am the first person to read my post. Sure, there are other folks pestering me on the way, but this is also a semi-blog site where it is not an individual blog but we all share and then have a scuffle, but the only person who is doing the battle is yourself. How others cross your path is how much you can sacrifice. A leader always goes into the battlefield filled with unknowns and traps with the knowledge that the victory is waiting and the light is at the end of the tunnel. Who and what is at the end.

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Post by andrey » 26 Dec 2006

Dear brother ex-l,

you started ... warped, programmed... who would like to listen words like this about himself ...

... you have pretentions towards the ideology, or the way the organisation works, or the people there, but what do you have in common with them so that it gives you right to have pretentions ... do you go to any boutique to say ... listen, this robe should be in blue ... what is the point ...

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 26 Dec 2006

I think ex-l has a right to express his ideas about the BKs Andrey. There is no reason for people to take offence ... this is what freedom of speech means.

I would not attack any bk who came on here and wanted to join in discussion. I don't like BKs just appearing with an outright criticism about this site before they have even tried to participate. In fact, I wouldn't like it if a pbk or an ex- bk did the same. They should at least try and see what this place is about before flaming it.

I hope you don't feel I am attacking you in any way, I have no want to. Neither would I want to attack any individual, but if anyone wants to make derogatory comments they should have the courage of their conviction to at least debate the issue instead of being horrid.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:Why indulge in useless discussion? People here seem to have stable positions and don't seem to like to change it. Or will someone come with the attitude ... OK, let me learn something ... no everyone likes to teach.
I guess that is very honest of you Andrey and why you enter into conflict with us. You have decided that you know "The Truth" and the only thing left to do is repeat it. But, apart from the details of the PBK lore, we know it already and have seen its failings. We are not teachers but are still questioning it all, all of life, from a post-BK stage. I feel that we are also voicing your natural doubts and hence why you like to put us/me down. Keep grinding away at us and we will see whose stone intellect is left at the end? ;-)
Andrey wrote:you started ... warped, programmed... who would like to listen words like this about himself ...
Actually, IMHO, "supercilious" would have been a better word to use in that case but, yes, that is true and I qualified it as 'by the teachings and practise of BKWSU-style Raja Yoga lifestyle' (spelling it out in full) which by PBK lore would be correct. Why cannot they just come on, be friendly and do what they are meant to do as BK Brahmins?

It is tough truth but the BKs have set themselves up badly on an individual and a corporate basis;
  • • on one hand they have invested their individual and corporate beings in a whole load of unproven, extreme and condescending beliefs which are, to be frank, not only an embarrassment in this "impure" day and "devilish" "Shudra" age but an individual and corporate liability (why else do they lock away the Murlis?).
    • on the other, they then go out chasing status and influence in that same "Shudra" society.
    • to overcome this, they appear to me, to become like "secret service" agents hiding their true identity and agenda.
    • at their lokik home, work or on the service field, they basically have to deny what they are, believe in and what they are doing. And, as we have discussed, they have to change the Knowledge to fit them, rather than change themselves to fit the Knowledge.
I accept that it might be more of a problem in the West than India and I respect individuals like yourself, that are just 100% Gyan and no concerns otherwise, more. Psychologically, that is a recipe not just for "warping" individual psychologies ... but scrambling it.

What is difficult for them about us is that we, vocal ex- or questioning-BKs and PBKs, put our finger onto the very contradictions and challenge - by our mere questions or continued existence - their teachings. They know we know the knowledge and organization almost inside out. They know the issues that exist too. How do we fit into the picture they have been given? ... and here we are letting the whole word look at our collective dirty laundry.

By what I have heard of the way they treat PBKs in India, it is pretty clear what they think of us ... pests to be starved out or eradicated by violence if necessary. Sweetchill is perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. They came forward to one thing only, which was not join the forum but seemingly attempt to discredit it ... and that rather than "serve it" as one might have expected. Is that what God teaches now, "go forth and discredit your critics?" I preferred the Biblical version.

Rather than "tear apart", what I saw is that their actions actually brought the forum members together more ... Just to show you how difficult being a BK-style Brahmin, tell me honestly, in public, if you think that everyone else in the World are impure Shudras and damned and only BKs are pure, Brahmins and saved?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 26 Dec 2006

we know it already and have seen its failings.

Which failings?

See, brother ... you only speak and don't support your speaking further ... yes, we all have a right to express an opinion ... but what an opinion do we express ... and it is like the useless gossip about politics at home ... people think they do some work with it speaking about others ... who did what ... who is good ... who is bad ... better be the one whom others comment rather than the commentator of others.

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john
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Post by john » 29 Dec 2006

See, Brother ... you only speak and don't support your speaking further ...
When someone does support what they are saying and supports it well, then you move onto your other tact of saying, 'why are you always criticising?'.

Maybe it might be best if you realise that not everyone will agree with what you say and that you, like everyone else, will not always be right.

Peace.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 29 Dec 2006

What is wrong to be wrong? I am wrong many times. The moment that i realise I am wrong, i preefer to admit it and accept defeat. But until this moment arrives, it is natural that i like to be right and speak out of this impulse. Should I speak what i consider wrong?

Yes, the way others express their opinion, whether i call it criticising etc., if i have problem with that it is my own problem. In your posts it is clear you try to maintain a very balanced and well informed position. However, I wish you could go further and easily be able to choose for what is right for you, no matter what others may say.

Somewhere, you raised the question, "how do we know if the Supreme Soul has entered the Chariot ... through the knowledge he gives and whether the soul is aware someone else is speaking and is at the back or he speaks under some kind of inspiration?". I would like to mention what i have read in the Murlis, that Brahma also listens ... and also that he realises afterwards that he himself did not know this knowledge. So someone must have come and spoken. It is also said that some children think, when good servise is done, that they feel proud and don't know it was Bap who did it.

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john
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Post by john » 29 Dec 2006

In your posts it is clear you try to maintain and you do a very balanced and well informed position ... however I wish you could go further and easily be able to choose for what is right for you, nomatter what others may say ...

Many times I have spoken out for and in defence of the BKs, knowing I will have the weight of the forums most outspoken users against it. Maybe this has been missed by your radar of interest on the forum. Yes, you are correct I like to remain balanced and well informed ...

What is right for me is to find the truth, not just form allegiances and then defend that no matter what. This I think some BKs and PBKs do, are they defending the knowledge of God or the knowledge circulated by the members of the organisation? The two are not always the same. Why defend a point which is shown to be false? To me that is not a point from God. An allegiance to find the truth is also an allegiance to God.

Peace Bhai, we are all still learning.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:Which failings?
That was address to me.

Hi Andrey ... sorry been busy on other stuff. Sure I have an answer but I am trying to be positive today.

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Post by andrey » 31 Dec 2006

Maybe this has been missed by your radar of interest on the forum.
Yes, I am not interested in everything in the forum and don't read everything. I believe, there are many useless things which will not make use for me and i don't even touch them. Iti s normal to be like that. Everywhere it is like that.

We all study and would like to know the truth. But truth is only God and God is only truth, so if we recognise him we can start learning, and we learn to do that - to recognise him. The study has an aim. We don’t just study like this pointlessly, so what is your aim, do you believe you can change from a human being into a deity in this life? Do you consider it is possible? Would you take up such aim? If you do then ShivBaba who creates the deities is practically needed present, so where is He? Or if we remember the one who is to become Narayan tthen it is even easier, who is he?

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