Lee James

For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
User avatar
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Lee James

Post by bansy » 27 Feb 2008

Just to pick up on the past few threads, and maybe to start a new thread ... don't the Murlis say that all there is no other study other than "this spiritual study", i.e BK Gyan. So all other worldy studies are useless.

Since you should be fully used and surrendered into the Yagya, and dedicated to 100% BK service, why would anyone have the time to study a masters, or a diploma etc at another world (ungodly) university?

User avatar
Posts: 11853
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Lee James

Post by arjun » 27 Feb 2008

Just to pick up on the past few threads, and maybe to start a new thread.... don't the Murlis say that all there is no other study other than "this spiritual study" i.e BK Gyan. So all other worldy studies are useless, since you should be fully used and surrendered into the Yagya and dedicated to 100% BK service, why would anyone have the time to study a masters, or a diploma etc at another world (ungodly) university ?
Yes, Murlis do say this, but I don't think everyone would follow that. And even if someone follows it, there are many chances that they may change their decision after some years because it is all part of the drama. There are all kinds of souls in this drama. I know of a PBK who left a professional course after becoming a PBK, but regretted it later on and then pursued some other course successfully later on while continuing to be a PBK.

I had completed my graduation while I was a BK, but pursued postgraduation through correspondence course after becoming a PBK under intimation to Baba. But because of my interest in Godly service both as a BK or PBK, I could not pay as serious attention to studies as a non-BK, but nevertheless I did not suffer any loss as a result of it and was able to get desired jobs.

Rules about worldly education for the PBKs are same as for the BKs, but in case where PBK children wish to continue pursuing education, they are advised to pursue job-oriented courses (based on my interaction with few such PBKs).


User avatar
fluffy bunny
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Lee James

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Feb 2008

bansy wrote:why would anyone have the time to study a masters, or a diploma etc at another world (ungodly) university?
Yes, it is true. The BKWSU is the real university all the others are limited and of no advantage.

Actually ... and this is absolutely true ... when a senior BK heard what it was I was studying, they told me that I should continue because it would bring me into contact with lots of VIPs. It was impossible though because of the demands of the course. Then I was encouraged to give it up because Destruction was coming very soon (mid-1980s) and just get a simple job that left my intellect free and lots of time to do very basic service.

You did not need to be a corporate consultant back then to do meaningful service. I never made it to special "VIP service" dinner parties they had which I really regretted ... just because it would have meant that I actually got fed! I ended up doing *******, mundane insecure jobs instead and screwing up my career.

Posts: 13
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I reregistered as diogenes on feb 27 -08, but cannot login.
I was the diogenes posting from 2006 as well.
Location: Australia

Re: Lee James

Post by diiogenes » 07 May 2008

A bit of a late reply to this thread, but as I knew Lee quite well ( we were in the same year at NIDA) what I have to say may flesh out the picture of this soul who recently expounded the significance of the Mayan calendar. Prior to our BK lives, as an actor, I knew Lee to be a fearless, enthusiastic, talented, and eccentric performer. I liked Lee a lot, and there was a mutual respect/friendship between us without us feeling we had that much in common.

It is interesting that most of those traits survived his entry into and commitment to Sydney Brahmin life. I did the course in Melbourne, April '84, but wasn't ready to don the whites and become Brahmin like. I happened to stay with Lee at his home in Sydney a year later.

He told me all about his Raj Yoga life (he'd done the course six months earlier) that he was in the very process of moving into Indraprasht (living with Didi Nirmala, her male assistant nicknamed Radar, and Anthony (Strano?) - who was kicked out of Indraprasht for showing a girl through the premises soon after, I remember), how he'd changed his mind about becoming a politician, and now knew he was to become a Yogis.

He told me about his experience at a BK programme in (I believe) NZ where one of the Dadis had chanelled baby Krishna, and that he would take up learning Hindi so he could become an interpreter for the senior yogis, and had no doubts about what he was doing. I told him I'd done the course previously, which was met with a kind of ambivilance. My girlfriend went into another room and Lee gave me drishti, I remember.

Early '86 I think. I'd been a good little yogis, attending Amrit Vela, following Shrimat, somewhat awkwardly transforming from wearing light colors, to cream, to white BK style, to fit into the Brahmin family. It was six months later when I next saw him. Our meeting in Sydney was preceeded by a number of phone calls from me. Initially I just asked him science questions that I was curious about - what happens to the satellites and space probes at cycles end (he said a senior yogis had told him the entire universe turns to light - OK, at least someone was willing to offer some answers now).

The third or fourth call I blurted out the frustration and misgivings I was observing and experiencing, particularly within the leadership of the Melbourne Brahmin family. His response was I should move to Sydney. I said it wasn't practical at the time. I remember him saying a lot of the Brahmin family were in bondage, that center-in-charge Michael Smith '(the soul) doesn't know who he is'.

I got the impression my calls, though infrequent, were testing Lee's patience. He actually said to me on my third? call before I organised to visit Indraprasht a couple of months later, 'let the questions cease'. Hearing that, I felt like a door had been closed, while I was in the thick of Brahmin weirdness and dysfunction down in Melbourne. To wit, a 2 hour Bhatti and special programme was held at the inauguration of a Sister's Center - run by Gope and Mahoney (pronounced marny) bhen, I remember. As was her fashion, Didi Nirmala got the newbie sister living in the center onto the ghadi stage to give her experience. She was a school teacher I'd met briefly, a coupla months before. She did not say much but I've never forgotten, ' Sister Gope and Mahoney are so positive and supportive. They tell me what to do and, even before I can open my mouth, they've said, "You're attached". This woman had tears welling in her eyes, and they weren't tears of liberation.

Gope (an ugly piece of work and for good reason nicknamed Groper by a then friend of mine) and Mahoney sat near her with that learned air of superior detachment, that accompanies indifference to the plight of a lesser being. No one said anything about the obvious reference to the bullying. I had steam coming out of my ears. I waited until the programme ended and followed Groper and Mahoney into the kitchen, fully intending to fix their little red wagon one way or the other, so frustrated, repressed and despairing I was at too many months exposure to similar behaviour (Sparkl, your classic post on sisters opened my eyes a lot, thanks).

I don't remember exactly why I couldn't get near them, too many other sisters between us, they moved away out of the kitchen fairly quickly and I was both angered and relieved. The serve I was ready to give them was monumental. All it would have taken was for them to make eye contact, which they did not. It's interesting, looking back, why I did not hold Didi Nirmala more accountable on those occasions. I think it was because she just wasn't accessible on so many levels. I'll address that one a bit more further along. In any case, by the time I later arrived at Indraprasht I was hoping for a lot more enlightenment. What I got was more disturbance in general. I remember it was saturday morning class, just finished, Didi Nirmala had began calling non Indraprasht BK's and newbies to introduce themselves and give their experience.

My jaw nearly hit the flaw when several sisters, two whom I knew, scurried to sit and fawn and stroke Didi's knee as she pontificated on something or other, 'The importance of sharing, you must love Baba, blah blah blah'. Sorry? I am a bit distracted that you're not addressing this idol/icon worship going on at your feet. I stiffened up the sinews and did my duty when my turn came to 'share'. It was pretty excrutiating, but I did it as honestly and positively as I could.

I also remember starving most of the time I was there, which was only several days (in reference to the girl's classic post here, who was crippled with guilt about wanting a second chapati). I got so hungry at one point I followed my nose to the kitchen, was eyeing some bowls of custard or the like on a bench. In one of those surreal moments Didi Nirmala walked through the kitchen, without giving me a glance, and I was caught in my intention to take something.
Boy, did I feel small, hungry and embarrassed then. Lee James was telling me to afford Didi Nirmala the same respect I gave to Baba, that this was the level of cooperation they deserved for their role. But I just began to see her as an obstacle. I think she knew I was in the kitchen because I was damned hungry. She knew I'd travelled up from Melbourne the night before, was new to the place. She couldn't afford me a look, let alone the gesture of offering a bowl of food, but I was being asked to treat her on par with God.

Lee showed me his lifestyle up there, and talked a lot of Gyan, some of which I was able to absorb. The atmosphere of the BK family in Sydney was quite different to Melbourne, to say the least. Creative types were trying to get a few progressive things happening. Million Minutes of Peace programmes had started going into the community ( on a slightly bizarre note, I'd offered my services in presenting/public speaking and, being NIDA trained, thought they'd find some use for me in a programme somewhere at some stage, nope. I ended up tagging along with two pukka bros, to a women's auxilliary charity group - it was, literally, lamingtons, cups of tea and knitting needles at ten paces stuff.

These two pukka bros pulled out a white board and one then began drawing Venn diagrams while describing the aggregate statistical effect of co-operation in a community, and how to fit a few minutes peace into that, I kid you not. Besides pukka bros no.1's voice, the only sound in the room was the woosh of air as the information sailed over their heads. I had the temerity to later criticise the Venn diagram approach as slightly inappropriate for these sweet old ladies. Pukka bro no.1 nearly went apopleptic at the criticism. You begin to lose faith in 'the family' when long serving Bhai's like these two show they cannot relate to people, and a criticism nearly kills one.)

On the note of family, it wasn't long after my next visit to Sydney I think, Lee had not long gone to Japan, that he admitted he had virtually nothing to do with the Brahmin family anymore! He also said he wasn't serving individuals anymore. I'd been complaining how intolerable things had become in Melbourne with mistreatment and weirdness. His reply astounded me, " I have to admire your arrogance". I then said I believed the Bk family was a cult that was harbouring all these unhealthy things. He replied, "Hmmm, cult. I don't know what that means, I'll have to look it up". You don't get into NIDA and begin studying for a psychology degree and not know that word. It was his way of giving me short shrift. But I expected more of him. He had access to the BK Seniors and did not want to know or see what was going on. He wasn't serving individuals anymore. He was a world server!! God knows what was going on in his head.

Before he left for Japan, he helped co-ordinate a large public programme I attended, so it must've been my second visit to Indraprasht. I remember running into Lee and a guy called Niall, a bass player on a then recent English BK music album. I complimented Niall on his playing ( seriously, I was so glad to hear something western, and easy on my ear in meditation) They both stared at me for about three seconds, exchanged a few words with eachother and walked off together as if I wasn't there! Boy, they must've been busy in service, or perhaps my compliment actually came out ' hey you irish git, lets have a jam!' I later offered my services to Lee to help with that evening's public programme. Though he did not say, or particularly show it, he might have been under pressure as he again gave me short shrift.

He was discussing flashpots/fireworks onstage for a big finale (lots of BK bhais and bhens onstage holding hands singing something I forget). I had just directed a large event on stage in Victoria and knew there were stringent laws governing naked flame and fireworks indoors at theatres. I asked if he'd spoken to the theatre manager about it, and suggested to check with the fire department about regulations.

He dismissed my suggestion out of hand saying it was unneccessary and he knew what he was doing. I spoke to him by phone a couple more times when he was in Japan. I was a mess by then. I got him to organise to have Didi Nirmala answer a phone call from me to suggest a course of mental health treatment, which I felt I needed then. I'd been starving, isolated, miserable and increasingly depressed, unable to hold down employment as I fell out of the BK lifestyle over a 14 month period. Didi's response was she did not know of any mental health professionals to recommend. That was pretty much the extent of her interest and our conversation.

This has probably been covered on this forum before, but looking back, I suspect she just didnt' bother making any effort to adapt and understand anything of the australian BK's makeup, existance and the culture she was coming into. She was probably used to having grateful souls turn themselves inside out to serve, fit in etc. So much so she presided over experiences such as are posted here in almost complete ignorance. My first trip to Sydney, on a drive with Antony (Strano?) we stopped at a bhavan for some reason, where a 19 year old BK kid from the US grabbed my arm and in quiet desperation pleaded with me to help him get out of the BK's. He said he had no money to get home, couldn't get help from anyone around him and was trapped there. I remember urging him to speak to Didi Nirmala!! Talk about a hollow gesture of help.

The thing that stuck with me was how clearly he was just a kid! Antony and I then went off to harrass Antony's executive brother about the cycle and re-incarnation. What a bizarre experience the BK family has been. As I refer to in my earlier post (diogenes) I returned to the BK's briefly in the late 90's to reassess what it had all been about. Encountering the very same types of problems over several months - bullying, mistreatment, reticence, oppression, suppression within the family, I remember initially speaking to Charlie Hogg on the phone. His reply? 'There aren't very good quality souls coming in.' I kid you not!! Not "in the nearly 15 years since you were here we've really understood what Baba means by as is the teacher, so are the students".

At the retreat, I had a private meeting with Didi Nirmala. I did not want to. I felt very little positivity toward her. There hadn't been more than two dozen words spoken between us in the past. I spoke about the bullying I was observing and the lack of effective communication between people (I'd actually said to Charlie Hogg to get Lee James back here in Aus.to start teaching communication skills). I cannot remember her response now, to be honest. But later that weekend she did something I'd never seen her do. She gave me, actually wrote it out on a little 'spiritual blessing' piece of paper, a huge compliment about my skills and creative gifts, how they'd inspire and bring positivity to many people. Now, I'd only been back in the BK fold for about six weeks at that stage.

The night before, Andy Travis, another soul and me had done a humourous sketch as part of the cultural programme. I played a cow's butt/tail, the other two were a coupla flies on the imaginary cows back. Next day, everyone's lining up to recieve their bit of paper from Didi. Poor old Andy, who'd been pukka for about 6 years solid, got some namby pamby wishy washy blessing. When he saw mine he all but cried in frustration. I don't think Didi Nirmala has had the slightest clue of the effect of her 'leadership' on people, and I suspect it's been like that for so long because she did not really care. She wasn't responsible, Baba was. Whatever the specialty of this soul, it is not eliciting and spreading love.

As for Lee. I don't doubt his commitment. He's operated in relative isolation over 20 years in Japan. He was quite eccentric when I knew him. He's pretty knowledgeful. I guess you're really doing your own thing when you reject the ordinary BK family members, and I don't know what blessings or attainments he'd be elligible for in that case. It would appear he's either a great example of a liberated soul who doesn't experience obstacles, or he's settled for Guru ji in the absense of that progress none of us found either.

In any case, he's done more good in the world than harm, and I'd still say hello to him.

User avatar
Friends and family of
Posts: 136
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: Supreme Spiritual Surgery
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Aprender a verdade é frequentemente muito difícil
My pms are shut down by me. Thank you and best wishes to
you in your life's journey. :-)

Re: Lee James

Post by tete » 08 May 2008

diiogenes ,

Thank you, that was a "Classic Post" for me :!: Funny but one of Didi Nirmala's teaching impacted my life and only about a year or so ago was the riddle figured out in an open discussion of one's interactions and triggered by many forum discussions. One day I will take the time and write the "teaching" out and that would explain why she knew of no mental health practitioners.

It is very interesting that those young look to those perceived as their teachers (spiritual family) for help. That is very similar to the tug Eromain received (resulting in his Child Abuse Report) and others here that seem to be the catalysts for change/guiding light.

Thank you again ... :).


Posts: 13
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I reregistered as diogenes on feb 27 -08, but cannot login.
I was the diogenes posting from 2006 as well.
Location: Australia

Re: Lee James

Post by diiogenes » 08 May 2008

was the riddle figured out in an open discussion of one's interactions and triggered by many forum discussions
Glad to hear it resolved itself into something useful for you, tete. I look forward to hearing what it was. Good to hear you enjoyed my post. I have a powerful ambivalence toward the BK family, the behaviour that is allowed to flourish under the guise of 'Baba is responsible', and in full view of the Seniors. There appears to be too many excuses, too many mistakes and a speedy rejection/exiling of whistleblowers. There is the real disservice to God. Not us gossiping away in here.

When you get to wondering just how much of a buddhu you need to be to become a master of heaven on earth, the exit buzzer is sounding and the BK family has helped you miss the point.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests