BK Birthright

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For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
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john
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BK Birthright

Post by john » 10 Jan 2007

Is it not the BK Birthright to have access to all of ShivBaba's jewels of knowledge.

Also of ex-BKs who have been through Bhatti and studied with the BKs, but for whatever reason have to decided to carry on without the BK organisation.

Brahmins should demand their birthright and have access to ALL Murlis from day 1

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Post by sparkal » 10 Jan 2007

You just want to read about dinosaurs etc don't you?

It is none the less our birthright. And it is one of these things where Baba may say, if the children ask, then it is my obligation to give it or tell it. I was given the yarn that they were too laden with Hindi Bhakti bashing for us Westerners, I am now beginning to wonder.

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Post by amaranthine » 12 Jan 2007

i agree john

Why is the organisation using this mild form of censorship for God's words, shouldn't we be shouting the Murli from the roof tops or dropping them from planes? When i say mild, i mean mild in the sense that if you wanted to hear those words all you have to do is do the course and then indicate an interest in going to morning class, and once there you can hear the Murli as much as you jolly well like. But this way has always been the system so one would assume that's just the way god wants it.

i think the Murlis can be taken out of context and in fact understanding the context is a skill that requires a great deal of effort.

In some other thread it's stated that the avaykt Murlis are being revised. Now in the context of this forum revised means to alter and to change. However revised also means to visit again, to look at again as in revising for exams. Which is exactly what is happening with those avaykt Murlis.

Without knowing the context of the Murlis you could come to some pretty odd conclusions - i think this is why they are not open to the general public - without understanding the context, i think they could well do more damage than good.

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Post by bansy » 12 Jan 2007

It feels obvious to me now that God is not behind the BKs, or the Murlis.

If he was, this wouldn't happen. It's as simple as that in my eyes.

They are re-writing the Avyakt Murlis in the same way as they have re written the Sakar Murlis. It's been going on for years.

Everything that reaches the students goes through the hands of 'teams' with nothing better to do than believe they are instrumental for the Almighty in making sure you don't read anything they feel unsuitable for their 'students'. This is what the Seniors call BKs in private. They see BKs as below them. In fact, they are still serving them.

It's called fear.

Even the books are re-written. The original correspondence course was re written by Jayanti. I have copies of both. Also that old book called 'The New World' or was it 'The Gates of Heaven' (help me out older BKs). It was mainly the old pictures with a few pages of badly translated Hindi Gyan.

In the original copies, it stated clearly which foods were tamopradhan. And in that list was plainly tea and coffee, in the later versions this was edited out.
now in the context of this forum revised means to alter and to change.
Dear Brother, well, I've been looking at some of the stuff the PBKs are quoting, they have some of those Murlis that have certain information missing or have not come again in recent times. Now, if there are 5 years of Murlis in circulation, then how come bits of stuff are missing from Murlis, who is editing God's words in BKWSU ? No, this is not like "revision" for an exam. Someone is editing the textbooks continually whilst the students are revising for the exam which they all take at the same time at the end.

It's all so easy. There are 5 years Sakar Murlis in Mt Abu. Let all the children study them. Same study for all. That is the context. Full stop. :!:


(How do you say in the west, "don't beat about/around in the bush" ?)

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jan 2007

amaranthine wrote:Now in the context of this forum revised means to alter and to change. However revised also means to visit again, to look at again as in revising for exams. Which is exactly what is happening with those avaykt Murlis.
True and false ...

Unfortunately, the Avyakt Murlis are being re-edited as well. If for nothing else, all the 1976 Destruction stuff has gone.

I think this is important. It raises the whole issue of, "what did Shiva mean?", "does God get it wrong etc?", "why did he say what he said?". And these are all valid points that bring his Supremacy and the BKWSU's authority into question.

I think individuals have the right. As far as the "misinterpretation" issue ... what has the BKWSU got to hide? Who is instructing this? Yup, Shiva and Lekhraj Kirpalani were always for throwing them out of helicopters and the internet does come into their expression.

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Post by amaranthine » 12 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:There are 5 years Sakar Murlis
I thought we were talking about Avyakt Murlis?

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Post by bansy » 12 Jan 2007

I thought we were talking about Avyakt Murlis?
It's only recently in this forum have the revision of Avyakt Murls been in topic, but the revisions of Sakar Murlis has been talked about in this forum from the beginning of (I almost typed "time" :D) this forum, and has been way way past due, over many generations BKs that have come and gone.

Regarding revised Avyakt Murlis, well I am a stickler for tradition, I like God's words as He said them yesterday to be that the same as I read it today. Even if there are other people's names or bits that are not related to today's life. Because God comes only during this Confluence Age, and every word and instruction by God is valuable, priceless. Because I simply don't believe there is anyone quite daring to edit God's words. This is GOD, your Father, my Father, The Ocean, The ONE. Are GOD's words "untouchable" or "touchable" ? Who is the Sermoniser of the Gita ? A BK in a Murli team ?

Unless ... unless ... those Murlis are not GODS words ? Forgive me, Father, I know you will punish me for all sins, but I am also relieved those who sinned worse will be my subjects :wink:

Brother amaranthine, this is nothing of your fault or anyone here, my strict stance is for the benefit of the entire Brahmin family. Brahmins, during Amrit Vela, ask Baba for the Murlis to be opened up.

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Post by amaranthine » 12 Jan 2007

Please tell which of the 90s avaykt Murlis have been edited.

I have the orginal Murli books from that time and access to the Murlis that are being read in class now. It would be interesting to see which bits they have changed.

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Post by bansy » 12 Jan 2007

Instead of every child scrambling their books and papers and checking for revisons, can someone go up to the Murli team and ask if Murlis (Sakar and Avyakt) are revised (revised= God's words edited out). If so, then ask Why and Who decides what is revised?

The Murli team is in London. Look at this as service for the self and for the family.

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Post by john » 12 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:Instead of every child scrambling their books and papers and checking for revisons, can someone go up to the Murli team and ask if Murlis (Sakar and Avyakt) are revised (revised= God's words edited out). If so, then ask Why,and Who decides what is revised. The Murli team is in London. Look at this as service for the self and for the family.
Bansy when you say the Murli team is in London, do you mean THE Murli team for the whole of BKSWU or is it just the UK branch?

How original are the Murlis they have?

If anyone can give more information on this please do, even if it has to be private message.

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Post by john » 12 Jan 2007

amaranthine wrote:please tell which of the 90s avaykt Murlis have been edited
I have the orginal Murli books from that time and access to the Murlis that are being read in class now. it would be interesting to see which bits they have changed.
Amaranthine
Avyakt Vanis which are freely available and in books may not have come under the editing process. It may be that you have to go back before the 90's for this.

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Post by amaranthine » 12 Jan 2007

Yes, John, I am 100% certain those 'revised' 90s Murlis have not been edited.

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Post by bansy » 12 Jan 2007

Brother John,

I was told that a Murli team is in London. When the latest Avyakt Murli is spoken by BapDada each season, the Hindi version is interpeted and checked in Mt Abu and usually copies are printed and ready in 1-2 days. A version is sent back to London and then the English version is released. That was 2-3 years ago. Whether that first version is a draft English one done in Mt Abu, or the orginal Hindi one, I don't know. Does anyone else ? I also do not know about the production of the daily Sakar Murli BK classes each morning including the Avyakt Murli on Sunday mornings at the centres, however these are prepared a few weeks in advance somewhere.

Firstly there must be the original Hindi Murlis. Then there would be the first released translation of them in English. Where these two sets are I don't know.

If the originals are given to the children, then having a class is very easy, all you have to do is tell the children ..."now, today, turn to page 458 ...". There would only be one copy of a big book for all the children and whether you become a BK tomorrow, or you were a BK 20 years ago, we'd all be studying the same version.

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Post by arjun » 12 Jan 2007

sister bansy wrote:If the originals are given to the children, then having a class is very easy, all you have to do is tell the children...."now, today, turn to page 458....". There would only be one copy of a big book for all the children and whether you become a BK tomorrow, or you were a BK 20 years ago, we'd all be studying the same version.
Revolutionary ideas indeed. :D :P :D

Are the Seniors reading this thread :?: :idea: :?: I am off to sleep with these ideas. :arrow: :wink:

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Post by abrahma kumar » 15 Jan 2007

I have observed that Sister Jayanti almost always uses the term "Avyakt Revision Course Murli" when referring to the Avyakt Murli to be read to the gathering on a particular Sunday. I never took it to mean that we were listening to an Avyakt Murli that had been altered in some way from its original delivery.

My interpretation like many others I guess is that we are having a chance to hear those God's words once more. Revising as one would re-visit material previously studied during the school term in preparation for an exam for instance. If it is the case that "revise" in our BK parlance extends to include the practice of "modification" either for improvement or obfuscation then I would be a little surprised. Maybe I should do a little investigation for myself as I have quite a few of the older Avyakt Murli books.

I did notice on my last trip to Madhuban when I picked up a copy of the 1969 Avyakt Murli book because the one I had purchased years earlier had gotten rather well-thumbed and dog-eared that the newer version now had titles in the table of contents. At the time I remember thinking how someone coming to the Yagya at that time would be totally unaware that the earlier book had been published without that info. Nothing sinister in that I do not think.

Further to that when I got back to London I started to check the notes I had made against the Murli headlines and much to my joy I found quite a few instances where Avyakt BapDada's words seemed to have touched the intellect accurately because some of the notes taken corresponded exactly with the titles in the new book. So I guess there can be benefit in all the Yagya's developments.

But if there are any alterations being made that are of a more questionnable nature then ... what are we really studying? And just whose words are they?

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