For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
Dear BK Sisters and Brothers,
You have now read much material in this forum, why do you not reply to the various issues and queries raised in this forum ?
From whatever the background, forum members are seekers of truth, and if you have the truth, why not share them? Forum members have nothing to hide because we don't fully understand and therefore would prefer BKWSU representatives or officials to come on this forum and explain the greatness of the BKWSU and of, especially, our divine Father Shiva. He is your Father as well as ours, is He not? One of the subjects Father Shiva instructs is to study Gyan, and many Gyan points have been raised in this forum. Have you completed your studies or are you already satisfied with your level of knowledge that the subject of Gyan has been finished ?
Unless there is something to hide in the BKWSU. However, it is also understandable if you do not fully grasp all the concepts of Gyan, and have been incorrectly misled.
So BKs, please participate. Other than Gyan, Yoga and dharna, it is also YOUR SWORN DUTY to also do service which includes serving those on this forum and to introduce His Divine ACCURATELY to the world. YOUR FAILURE will simply highlight your WEAKNESS and thus Maya in you, and you will be wasting your time and not be counted as one of elevated souls entering the Golden Age, for failing to serve the world. You will not want to repent when faced with Dharamraj.
Take one step and the Father will give you another thousand. He has given this promise, hasn't He ? Join some of your active fellow BKs who have already taken this courageous step in this forum and who have gained much self respect richly deserved. Your other choice is not to take this step, and thus stay hiding.
Footnote: If you, the BKWSU, have souls who are able to spend and waste time on a website such as the wikipedia where it has been a farce given the number of amendments and history of changes, why do these expert representatives not use their time more wisely and discuss matters in this forum and enlighten souls who have been in Gyan for many years as given in a recent poll. The wikipedia is only an information source that also hosts plentify of Iron Age-Kaliyuga material and hence serves dull intellects and offers little service as it cannot bring people close to the Divine.
I would encourage the BKs who I know are open-minded and open-hearted, and that I know are looking at this site, that we need you here. Not to get into Gyan fights but just to be yourselves. That's all we can be. Everyone has a right to their opinion and their faith. And it doesn't matter whether you feel you cannot join the more intellectual debates or not.
You are God's child. Posting here will not remove that fact! Also, we need to respect the fact that people have been through their own experiences and they are all valid. So when posting on here, we need to be real, talk about our own experiences and not hide behind Gyan and other's quotes.
I intend to spend more time on here soon responding to some of the stuff that's come up whilst I was away, and share my experiences of Madhuban.
That was from another thread.mr green wrote:Yudishtra, you are a breath of fresh air. A BK able to actually discuss spiritual matters like an adult without lording it over others!!!! Especially those who were once BKs and know the craic completely ...
Yudhistira, once anyone who starts out in this forum with an open mind in a fair playground for all, and then works their way around, they find themselves very free to express themself as most of us have all somewhat shared in a common and overlapping path. It is really easy to understand that there is something for everyone here, and thus everyone is welcome.
So there is no need to feel pressured and, as some others have put it, one can learn so much about being a "BK" on this forum in a few weeks than they did for their entire BK life. Actually, it is not so much as in being a BK or not BK, it is simply being a soul in a human body.
Glad you're enjoying the forum.
I understand what you are saying Bansy, which was why I took responsibility for my own feelings in my post. It is tough for me to read when so many think that it is not my Shiv Baba speaking, and think that they are being hypnotised, when I personally don't believe that.bansy wrote:So there is no need to feel pressured and, as some others have put it, one can learn so much about being a "BK" on this forum in a few weeks than they did for their entire BK life. Actually, it is not so much as in being a BK or not BK, it is simply being a soul in a human body.
But I feel it's important for those who identify with being BKs to be heard and seen here.
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- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I was an active BK for 12 years. That was long ago. Now I am just a person.
There are many of us no longer maintaining the BK 'magical trance', many with 10, 15, 20 years experience with the group. We are speakly openly, revealing much about ourselves, about our problems, speaking openly of beliefs, of rituals we no longer practice or hold holy.
Where are the powerful Shaktis and Pandavas who are ready to be a river of knowledge? A river of inner richness, generosity, humor. compassion. So far we see few from the BK-side, especially few representatives from among those BK Seniors, foreign and Indian, who are responsible for BK "service" activities.
I could understand them ignoring a "side scene." This forum is no longer a small aside. Here our forum is like a kind of court, with the injured parties representing themselves directly, taking responsibility for their own decisions. Here are central existential issues about the group that as older BKs, we only discussed in the shadows with like minded brothers and sisters. Here the discussion is exposed, for all to see. Is the light of open discussion too bright for you?
Exclamation: I suspect it is less fantastic than some on the forum may suspect!
I, for my part, gave up trying the hear 'the truth' from BKs in charge/ senior BKs / or anything else of that nature quite a long time ago.
Reason: I observed that all (organisationally) was not as I thought it should be, considering the knowledge I was given. This bothered me, until it hit me: the organisation is not the point, personal progress is. This was especially true for me as I never actually ran a centre, just my own outreach, for a few years.
My big crunch: teacher training does not give more in-depth Gyan or any better nuggets than normal classes. Main thing to gain was personal dharna and service. Rest was all organisational ... not what I wanted to hear in my 2 week 'holiday' to Madhuban.
Final crunch: I felt Seniors were unable to give me the kind of direction / support I actually wanted/ needed. Except once, when Dadi Janki paused to state that dharna and even Maryadas are best followed on the basis of soul-consciousness and not just as routine, at least this was my interpretation.
Realisation: Instead I noticed that the real nuggets came from 'effort-maker' comments people share, discussions with like-minded individuals and groups, what we've read recently that struck us etc, and also, some deep reflections in Madhuban, with positive experiential energy, by senior BKs and others, who are just chatting.
What I ended up doing: reading Murli for myself, lots of meditation on basic concepts and God as seed of truth, trying to stay positive and deal with my feelings, get on with doing my job as best I could despite losing opportunities to study further due to being intoxicated (yes, I know, so many of us in same boat) and put Gyan into practise through that, give positive thinking courses (mirrors back at you), trying to have a true relationship with God, denying and also acknowledging my terrible relationship with 'Seniors', trying to come to terms with same, and finally, deciding to listen to myself, value myself, 'listen' to God, be very light, see 'the drama'; change my reactions if possible and 'respond' if I can! Otherwise to be entertained, authentic, sympathetic, (bombastic, apathetic, whoops that's not Gyan, but who is perfect here anyway?) and some other tics I cannot recall right now.
You asked us to post something to seekers of truth.
Main message: beliefs are a means to an end, not the aim itself. Spiritual knowledge is to get us to a point of experiencing real peace, love, happiness, other positives in life, more than we did before and more divinely. Just as 'lokik' knowledge lets us get somewhere else.
Thanks for the reply. Appreciate the response.
The initial post in this thread was made in March 2007, but that is after many months this forum had been active with the BKWSU had been aware of the activity (e.g. via various wikipedia updates).
So for some time, there were very little BK response to any of the discussions in this website by various folks, so this thread was put to see if any open minded BKs would care to discuss issues. Well, why should anyone need to, it is up to them. However, if one of your brothers or sisters, who once sat next to you in class, committed suicide and you knew about it but it was covered up, how would you feel about it ? Your God is still with you. And as you may know, recently this month this forum has the possibility of closure in Oct/Nov by an action initiated by the BKWSU. Are the facts in this forum true that they need to be covered up? Six months and no service seeking BK has come forward to help out here. Your God is still with you. If so, then whose God is the counterparty's ?
I agree with much you said about personal development and spiritual progress. There is much the BKWSU has to offer, don't get me wrong. However one chooses one's path anyway, and with it the BK world is an integral part of it (it is fixed as per drama).
You used a key phrase "Spiritual Knowledge" ... this is a central issue that is being discussed in this forum. Gyan as per BKs, PBKs, Vishnu Party, etc. Then how can there be so many "gyans" if there is only one God. Or is God omnipotent/omnipresent or are there many gods. (Such issues and others are discussed elsewhere in the forum, outside this thread). If one is happy with the spiritual path they are pursuing that is fine, though I would raise my eyebrows when I find that souls have left the Gyan once perceived as "perfect" to find a more "perfect" one. Others would simply turn a blind eye. As each soul has their part to play. As a BK there is also a choice, would one like to read the original Murlis or the edited ones ?
I guess I will say as a practising BK I have realised that the Yagya and the center etc are only given to us a basic infrastructure and, for me, my experience with the Yagya has been distasteful to say the least ... Having said that, the more detached I became from the instruments, Dadi's and even Madhuban, I have felt great spiritual progress.
I have even realised that the Sakar Murli's are more of BB's own meditation churnings and Shiv Baba saying things are not the right thing to interpret as ...
The more I see it, GOD cannot SPEAK and that too in a language that is not known to every single soul ... He only gives the experience ... I do not know whether it is Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba coming into DG's body but then the one who is speaking is definitely BB ... The one who gives drishti and the experience is GOD.
Now the organization's hope, is for forums like these to make them realize all that is there is not clean, and they do need to change around so many things for them to make any more progress than they have already made ...
So to end all this I will quote Jagdish, "Even the Yagya goes through the Four Ages like The Cycle and hence not so sure which age is the Yagya going through".
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- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Mainly to share Gyan. Understand view points and to enjoy the "process"...
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I see that you want some BK participation here... Good! better late than never. I am a BK but I "do not represent Brahma Kumaris", I represent "myself" as "myself"... yeah, that continuously changing being who paradoxically is the same that was before and that always will be....
Hope to see good "food for thought" and "drink for feelings"... all the best
"Dare not to be "normal".
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- Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a BK and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.
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