Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:"Surma" is some sort of eye wash or decoration (like kohl)? Would you like to explain why this is significant?
As per dictionary, Surma = antimony ground into fine powder, collyrium.

It is same as Kaajal, a black paste like thing applied on the inner border of the eyelids.

As per dictionary, Kaajal = lampblack for use on eyes, soot, collyrium.

The line that I quoted is significant because for the first time in the BK literature it speaks about a Bengali guru of Dada Lekhraj. As per PBKs, Dada Lekhraj got the clarification of the divine visions from his partner based in Calcutta. After that he and Dada Lekhraj, along with two other mothers shifted to Hyderabad, Sindh. In the initial days of the Om Mandali, Dada Lekhraj's partner played the role of the Father of the Yagya, i.e. Prajapita/Prajapati (as you have researched). So, it is possible that Dada Lekhraj's partner may have been referred to as the Bengali guru because he came from Calcutta, Bengal's capital.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:With the short time available today, I checked with the centre and the Jan issue (Dec and Feb's too) of World Renewal does not have the articles as mentioned by Arjunbhai.
Thanks for the efforts. Anyways, I will produce a gist of the articles contained in the January edition of the Gyanamrit magazine published by the BKs. Today, while travelling to the local mini-Madhubans by bus, I could read almost the entire issue and came to know of the experiences of many senior BKs and many interesting aspects of the Yagya history, which I shall share with everyone.

And I got the fruits of reading that magazine when, to my surprise, I found Baba giving drishti at the mini-Madhubans after many years. He narrated a clarification Murli and also answered some questions during the discussion class, but because of the unsavoury behaviour of two PBK mothers (one of whom is almost a psychic patient), he had to leave the discussion class midway. Anyway, we all enjoyed the class as well as the discussion.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Psychic experiences

Post by abrahma kumar » 15 Jul 2007

Arjun Bhai, do you use the word "psychic" as 1. an adjective relating to some abilities or events that cannot be explained by natural laws, especially those involving telepathy or clairvoyance? Or do you imply that these PBK mothers claim to have psychic and or clairvoyant abilities?

Arjun Bhai, seeing you have followed-up psychic with the word "patient" my mind wondered whether we were to understand that you were of the opinion that one of the sisters was in need of "psychiatric care"? Or was it just a casual, individual turn of phrase which we ought not to think too deeply on?

As an aside: The issue of duty of care has come up on numerous ocassions on this site. What do others think about the information contained in Arjun's post? Maybe i misunderstand completely.
Thanks Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jul 2007

arjun wrote:"Surma" is ... same as Kaajal, a black paste like thing applied on the inner border of the eyelids ... So, it is possible that Dada Lekhraj's partner may have been referred to as the Bengali guru because he came from Calcutta, Bengal's capital.
Its frustrating that they do not name names because we could check up via the gurus followers. For example, Swami Vaswani's one is alive and still running the Vaswanu Mission his Father started. I am sure the "12 Gurus", if they exist and are not just some sort of Christ-like reference/projection, also have followers and a lineage holder. So, yes, kajaal is probably what we know as 'Kohl' in the West.

I wonder what other sources we can explore to clarify all this? Shewakram was a Sindi though and unless the references to his eyes was metaphorical, I cant imagine a businessman wearing Kohl. Do we know if Narayan Shewakram had any children? There must have been some young workers at the shop/workshop that might still be alive but it is become less unlikely year after year. The truth might be lost if we are not lucky and make efforts now.

Yes, I think Arjun means "psychiatric patient", unless the sister was "troubled by spirits". I wonder how basic psychiatric or psychological illness are treated in India. I have to fear that many basic illness, caused by either chemical imbalances or social and family conditions, are misinterpretated as "spiritual" afflications and the services of gurus or 'witch doctors' employed to rid them, as in the early days of the Yagyya. "Psychic" CAN properly refer to psychiatric or psychological conditions but it is only really used, generally, for ESPs [extra-sensory perception, siddhis etc].

Duty of care discussion belongs in another thread, please. Shrimat used to be "no mental patients in Gyan" but, from the BKWSU end, the rules are bent as usual for family of BKs.

Back on topic, I am also wondering, because Lekhraj Kirpalani/early Gyan also some Sikh references, where they came from?

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Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2007

Dear Abk and ex-l,

Om Shanti. I have replied to your querries related to the above mentioned PBK mother in another thread in the Commonroom Section.
Do we know if Narayan Shewakram had any children? There must have been some young workers at the shop/workshop that might still be alive but it is become less unlikely year after year. The truth might be lost if we are not lucky and make efforts now.
BK Khushiram Chugani, who gave the interview about the Om Mandali days can be an important source of information. But now that his name has been discussed in the forum here, the BKs may try to prevent him from divulging any further information. But we can try to get some more information from him. He is already 85 years old.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Jul 2007

arjun wrote:BK Khushiram Chugani, who gave the interview about the Om Mandali days can be an important source of information. But now that his name has been discussed in the forum here, the BKs may try to prevent him from divulging any further information. But we can try to get some more information from him. He is already 85 years old.
There are a couple of Chuganis on the members' list of around the correct age;
  • Savitri Hotchand Chugani 14 child
    Bhanbhi Ramchand Chugani 15 child
But, you are right, the BKWSU will probably be running around plugging the gaps in their fortress walls, telling ghost stories about us here and getting their corporate PR in order. I only hope that there are a few independent and honest old BKs left that recognise the truth when it is staring them in the face.

85 would give him a date of birth of 1922.

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Post by dyavu » 23 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:
Just picking up this thread in relation to the new revelations that Narain Shewakram was the secretary of the Om Mandli Bhaibund Committee in 1938/1939 aka The Anti-Party. I wondered how the PBK history has been revised. Or are you still waiting for the evidence?

Just a short note with reference to the list ofOriginal Om Mandli Members now on the site;
  • • was Jamna Shewakram Daryanani, aged 60 married of Dasvani Lane Shewakram/Sevak Ram's wife?
One other small detail, I do not know if it is of any significance, is that the original "special day" or "sabbath day" for the Yagya was Wednesday. Not Thursday as it is now.
I don't think Narain Sewakram secretary of Om Mandali Bhaibund committee is as same as Bhai SevakRam Partner of Dada Lekhraj. Because there are so many Sevak Ram in Sind at that time For example;
  • (1) Bhai Ramchand Uttamchand sired Bhai Gaganmal, Bhai Kundanmal and Bhai Shewakram
    (2) Gagandas's other brother Bhai Shewakram sired M/s. Wadhumal, Jamnadas and Hassaram.
    (3) Bhai Khubchand's (a reformist mentioned above), Father Bhai Bulchand were in all four brothers: Bhai Bulchand, Bhai Dulanomal, Bhai Shewakram and one other
    (4) SevakRam Darynani ...
From Dalsabzi.Com - Uttamchandani .

In one discussion someone ask to Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) that, is Sevakram belongs to Sind, Hyderabad or Calcutta? For that question Baba replied: in one Murli baba said, first in Calcutta people are using four horses cart, here four horses means four main religions ( i.e. Adi Sanatan, Islam, Buddhi and Christain). Here he showed direction towards Calcutta.

And in one Avyakt Vani also Baba asked; where did I find this Chariot? baba only told the answer ... from West Bengal ... (I forgot Avyakt Vani date but I will find it out) not only this so many hints given towards Calcutta ...

I think he may belongs to Calcutta, may be or may not be I am not sure. We have to research on this topic ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jul 2007

I think it is possible to find other records and the families to talk to. I agree that we need more information before making categorical statements. We don't know, until we know.

Thanks for taking interest.

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Post by dyavu » 26 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:I think it is possible to find other records and the families to talk to. I agree that we need more information before making categorical statements. We don't know, until we know.Thanks for taking interest.
Brahma Baba's sister was wife of SevakRam

Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) told in discussion that Brahma Baba's sister is wife of SevakRam. Previously, everyone thought that Jagadamba (Gita Mata) was the Sister of Brahma Baba but now Baba clearly mentions in so many discussion that Choti Maa (Vaishnavi Devi, she will do the role of Vishnu) is the sister of Brahma Baba.

According to the Om Mandali list, Brahma Baba's sister name is Hakki Kismatrai Hathirmani Age 56 ...

And Nirmala Shanta Dadi's book "Three In One" (Hindi edition P.No.25 ), in that book she has mentioned her Mother-in-law was Hakki Hathirmani and Father-in-law was Kismat Ram Hathirmani.

When I met Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) last week, I asked this question. Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) told me to put this topic on Internet and more research work will come ...

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Wednesday Mama's Day

Post by earl » 27 Jul 2007

I have been told in 1980's by BKs that Wednesday was Mama's Day and Thursday Baba's Day. Why i do not know.

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Post by john » 07 Oct 2007

dyavu wrote:Baba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) told in discussion that Brahma Baba's Sister is wife of SevakRam. Previously, everyone thought that Jagadamba (Gita Mata) was the Sister of Brahma Baba but now Baba clearly mentions in so many discussion that Choti Maa (Vaishnavi Devi, she will do the role of Vishnu) is the Sister of Brahma Baba.
What was the date of this discussion? Is it possible for someone to post a section from it?

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Post by suryavanshi » 01 Jan 2008

Nirmala Shanta Dadi's book "Three In One" (Hindi edition P.No.25 ), in that book she has mentioned her Mother-in-law was Hakki Hathirmani and Father-in-law was Kismat Ram Hathirmani.
How do you relate this to your quote given below:
Brahma Baba's Sister name is Hakki Kismatrai Hathirmani Age 56
About the history of the Yagya, lot of efforts are being made by fellow brothers/sisters to unravel the truth. The real truths about the history of the Yagya are still far from being understood. But any effort in this direction is really worthwhile because the initial period, probably from 1936 to 1947-48 is the foundation time of the Yagya and has got some very important role to play in the future of this Yagya.

Well, i happened to read this autobiography called "Unique Experience" by Dada Vishwa Ratan, where he has mentioned that " Baba used to get up in the morning noted down some points and sent them to the senior sisters bungalow" This is the time in karachi after Yagya moved from Sind, Hyderabad to Karachi.

But, it is not clear from whom did Brahma Baba get those points because as per advance knowledge during the initial days of the Yagya Supreme Soul Shiv through Sevakram (Dada Lekhraj's partner) used to narrate the Vani and Brahma Baba used to note them down early in the morning.

This at least shows that Brahma Baba himself used to note the points from some other personality.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Jan 2008

dyavu wrote:And Nirmala Shanta Dadi's book "Three In One" (Hindi edition P.No.25 ), in that book she has mentioned her Mother-in-law was Hakki Hathirmani and Father-in-law was Kismat Ram Hathirmani

I need to sit down and draw this out to understand what is going on. If anyone beats me to it, please upload a family tree. It all smells awfully incestuous to me.
  • ... and that Nirmala Shanta is/was part of the cover up.

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Post by dyavu » 02 Jan 2008

Nirmala Shanta Dadi's book "Three In One" (Hindi edition P.No.25 ), in that book she has mentioned her Mother-in-law was Hakki Hathirmani and Father-in-law was Kismat Ram Hathirmani.
Brahma Baba's Sister name is Hakki Kismatrai Hathirmani Age 56
suryavanshi wrote:Well, I happened to read this autobiography called "Unique Experience" by Dada Vishwa Ratan, where he has mentioned that " Baba used to get up in the morning noted down some points and sent them to the senior Sisters bungalow" This is the time in karachi after Yagya moved from Sind, Hyderabad to Karachi.
Hi suryavanshi,

Brahma Baba's Sister name was Hakki Kismatrai Hathirmani Age 56.

Please refer Original Om Mandli Members list, in that list refer Brahma Baba's family members. You will get above mentioned name.

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Post by suryavanshi » 02 Jan 2008

Brahma Baba's Sister name was Hakki Kismatrai Hathirmani Age 56.
Om Shanti Dyavu,

I have seen the list of om mandali members. But please clarify whether Nirmal Shanta Dadi is Brahma Baba's daughter or how is she related to Brahma Baba?

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