Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

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Post by freefall » 05 Apr 2007

Also note that it is "Prajapati" not "prajapita".

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Apr 2007

Where is all this stuff coming from? Anyone care to share or is it top secret? is there some archive that Baba is opening? Thanks. I am beginning to see clearly now the rain stopped falling ... It's gonna be a bright, bright sun shiny day

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Apr 2007

John wrote:The evidence is overwhelming, I for one would like an explaination from the BKSWU.
I agree John. I have just uploaded 4 large resolution copies of these images to;

http://brahmakumaris.info/download/
arjun wrote:I don't think you would get any reply. Even if they opt to give a reply, they may say that Baba has said in the Murlis that the pictures are subject to revision and correction. So, one should not feel surprised about it.
He does not actually, Arjun. That Murli point was written about original "visions" and corrections that were made at the time of the original composition before it went out. It does not refer, nor give carte blanche, to make revisions for all times afterwards.

John still has a point that why have 14 to 18 years of complete and utter contradiction been covered up? Newcomers have been duped into give their lives up, academics have been lied to, there has been one big cover up by the Seniors to protect their status. I, personally, have been lied to by the top Senior Sisters about this.

When I think about all the times we sat down with them to ask questions about the early days, how they remembered Baba, what the practise were etc ... it makes me sick. They were lying blind to us all and we went out and lied to newcomers on the basis of this. No wonder Sudesh used to sit and giggle and fluff answers in her embarrassed manner.

The miracle of this is that at some point the Brahma-kumaris must have all sat down and CONSCIOUSLY AGREED to just "SHUT UP" and "MENTION NOTHING ..." to the stupid whities (and blacks) that were to come along at a latter day. Planned to con us. It is pointless for me to mention which Seniors because IT IS ALL OF THEM.


It might be a waste of time to engage with the BKWSU if you expect honest on one hand; but on the other, who this stuff will be useful for are
  • a) newcomers ... to warn them of the organizations ability to change the goal posts at will, and
    b) lawyers ... if any BK/ex-BK wishes to sue the BKWSU for loss of earnings, damages etc.
I would say that it certainly proves typical cult-like behavior or historical re-writing and cover up. Even a recorded non-answer would be a clear indication of where the BKWSU are coming from. I lose the trail around 1949 and so I still have no idea how and when Shiva appeared on the scene. I would say it is also for the BKWSU to prove that. May be it was just marketing plan ... Brian Bacon in his previous incarnation ... they wanted the Krishna, Vishnu, Shankar, Narayan and then Shiavites to follow them too. Who knows?

Why did it take Shiva 18 years to speak up and say, "actually Old Chaps, He's not God you know ... I am!" Why was Shiva instructing the Brahma-kumaris to say Brahma was God!?! Its all garbage.

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Post by arjun » 05 Apr 2007

Sister Bansy wrote:With all this stuff, ex-l, you could put it all onto ebay and pocket a few million (hopefully not rupees but dollars). We'll never see it again until the next cycle of course !
There is a revised Sakar Murli point published by the BKs which says that these pictures should be insured, lest they are put on fire or vandalized by opponents. I will try to quote the point.
ex-l wrote:He does not actually, Arjun. That Murli point was written about original "visions" and corrections that were made at the time of the original composition before it went out. It does not refer, nor give carte blanche, to make revisions for all times afterwards. John still has a point that why have 14 to 18 years of complete and utter contradiction been covered up? Newcomers have been duped into give their lives up, academics have been lied to, there has been one big cover up by the Seniors to protect their status. I, personally, have been lied to by the top Senior Sisters about this.
I agree. Even if the BKs quote the Murlis to support the revision, they owe an explanation as to why the major changes like discontinuing the mention of Brahma as God were undertaken and when 'Shiv' began to be mentioned as God.

Although I got associated with BKWSU in the 1970s, I have not been aware of all these hidden aspects of Yagya history till you have reproduced these pictures. So, like me, most of the surrendered BK teachers who have become BKs after 1969 may not be aware of this aspect of Yagya history at all. And those who knew about it or might have taken a conscious decision to hide it, might have found it convenient to forget it.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by surya » 05 Apr 2007

Yes congratulations is the word for you ex-l! :D

Great findings! :shock:

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Apr 2007

Two notes;
  • • The two Christian Cats are Harry S. Truman and Stalin. This correlates with other writings in which the Brahma-kumaris of that time state that WWII is Destruction. There is no mention of nuclear holocaust in the first place, only gas which was the big fear at the time post-WWI. It is a later addition.

    • The rosary of 108 is the rosary of Divine Father Sun of Knowledge and Divine Mother Moon of Knowledge, e.g. Kirpalani and Radhe. The two beads at the top are them. No mention of Shiva.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Apr 2007

This is a low resolution version of another single color version I have put up in the downloads. Same image, worth it for the typed message. More Prajapati God Brahma, real identity as Lord Sree Krishna, Supreme Guide of would-be Deities, the Master of Brahm, Brahmand & Brahmpuri.

I wonder why all three of the last of those?

Try, herefor original
Image
Near the bottom it says,
Divine Father Prajapati God Brahma, Corporeal Re-Incarnation of Incorporeal God Vishnu (Chaturbhuj) is the SEED.

World Almighty Authority, Prajapati God Brahma ... has re-incarnated in ordinary human form along with His 108 most beloved self-conquering luckiest Divine Ones ...in Bharat on the banks of Sindhu Saraswati RIver in the year 1939 AD, and has organised the most supreme Rajsuva Asvamedh Avinashi Gyan Yagya which lasts for 12 years through Divine power of Supreme "Aham Brahm Asmi" Faith.
The figure of 1937 plus 12 takes up to 1949 on a par with the other poster dated 1949 that claimed Destruction was "within a year". So they clearly had instructions about this, but where did the 12 year figure come in? Early Murlis that have also been destroyed?

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Post by arjun » 07 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:This is a low resolution version of another single color version I have put up in the downloads. Same image, worth it for the typed message. More Prajapati God Brahma, real identity as Lord Sree Krishna, Supreme Guide of would-be Deities, the Master of Brahm, Brahmand & Brahmpuri.
Yes, the write-up below the picture contains the mention of Prajapati God Brahma several times, which goes on to prove how Dada Lekhraj was considered as the God Father as well as Gita sermonizer.

The above picture is also special in a sense that the two cats are not shown above the tree, but on the right side of the stem.
ex-l wrote:The figure of 1937 plus 12 takes up to 1949 on a par with the other poster dated 1949 that claimed Destruction was "within a year". So they clearly had instructions about this, but where did the 12 year figure come in? Early Murlis that have also been destroyed?
ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) had been telling all along that the declaration of destruction was being made ever since the beginning of the Yagya in order to push the children to make faster efforts. Your findings prove the above statement.

Another point to be noted from the address given below the write-up is that the members of Om Mandali were known as PBKs (Prajapati Brahma Kumaris) even before shifting to Mount Abu. So, how the word 'Prajapati' vanished for a few years after shifting to Mount Abu and reappeared (as Prajapita) after Mama's demise and then again (almost) vanished after Dada Lekhraj's demise is really intriguing.

Yes, most of the early Murlis might have got destroyed. But wherever any traces remain, they should be preserved.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 07 Apr 2007

There is a revised Sakar Murli point published by the BKs which says that these pictures should be insured, lest they are put on fire or vandalized by opponents. I will try to quote the point.
"Jo preetbuddhi hain vah vijayanti aur jo vipreet buddhi hain vah vinashanti ho jaatey hain. Is par bhi kayi manushya bigadtey hain, fir koi na koi ilzaam lagaa detey hain. Jhagdaa-fasaad machaaney may deri nahee kartey hain. Koi kar hee kya saktey hain. Kabhi chitron ko aag lagaaney may bhi deri nahee karengey. Baba raay bhi detey hain – chitron ko insure karaa do."

"Those who are preetbuddhi (loveful towards God) would become victorious and those who are vipreet buddhi (whose intellect works in opposite direction to God) get destroyed. Many people get angry at this, then they level some or the other allegation. They do not hesitate in inciting a dispute or turmoil. What can anyone do? They would not even hesitate in putting the pictures on fire. Baba even gives an advice that – get the pictures insured." - (Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.8.05, pg.1, published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

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Post by yudhishtira » 13 Apr 2007

Hi again, y'all!

did not you guys know that the original picture that Dada Vishwa Rattan did with BB actually has photos of the people that a trance messenger at the time said where going to be the 8?

I don't have the book with me here but will dig it out tomorrow. definitely there was Dadi Prakashmani, Didi Manmohini, Dada Vishwa Rattan, Dada Vishwa Kishore; but I cant remember who the others were. and defiantly no Dadi Janki. I wonder if anyone has ever asked Jayanti about that; she's always going on about Dadi being one of the 8. It makes her feel better about following the path of perpetuating judgemental body-conscious systems ...

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Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Apr 2007

Yudhishtira wrote:Didnt you guys know that the original picture that Dada Vishwa Rattan did with Brahma Baba actually has photos of the people that a trance messenger at the time said where going to be the 8? I do not have the book with me here but will dig it out tomorrow. definatly there was Dadi Prakashmani, Didi Manmohini, Dada Vishwa Rattan, Dada Vishwa Kishore; but I cant remember who the others were. and definatly no Dadi Janki.

... Hey Yude, welcome back! 8) So if what you say is true the much esteemed SJ is also in on the re-packaging agenda. Would like to see what you come up with!

Anyway we can always patch that anomaly up by telling ourselves that The Eight is more representative of a "League of souls" rather than a signed, sealed and delivered pre-ordained rank attained by a chosen few. So I too am in the 8, cannot you tell?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Apr 2007

Yudhishtira wrote:I don't have the book with me here but will dig it out tomorrow. definitely there was Dadi Prakashmani, Didi Manmohini, Dada Vishwa Rattan, Dada Vishwa Kishore; but I cant remember who the others were. and defiantly no Dadi Janki. I wonder if anyone has ever asked Jayanti about that; she's always going on about Dadi being one of the 8.
Yeah, she is going to the Silver Age. They both are. Especially Janki for breaking Shirmat and going along with a mythologized and sanctifed lifestory. Its going to be so funny at Dharamraj. All we Golden Aged cremators are going to lined up in front of them and singing;

(Cue kid's playground chant); "Jayanti's going to the Silver Age ... Jayanti's going to the Silver Age ... Jayanti's going to the Silver Age ... and taking Dadi with her!"

I'd rather shovel Lakshmi and Narayan's petal flavored poop than be an Emperor in the Silver or Copper Age any day.

And, seriously, I am still trying to get to the truth about Janki's early history. Elsewhere on the BKWSU sites its FABRICATES a history for Janki Kripalani. Actually, there are several fabrication but all over the internet they say, "As a founding member of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, joining in 1937 at the age of 21, she became one of India's first female spiritual leaders ...".

They fabricate her involvement as one of the committee, then a "small handful of spiritual pioneers", then a "nurse healing the sick". I, personally, think they have fabricated her age. They are certainly hiding the whole issue of her going off, getting married, making a baby and then ditching her husband because if she joined in 1937, (5 years after it all started) then she had already left by 1938/39. So when did she come back? Indeed, they even paint the running away from her husband and family responsibilities as a heroic act and make no examination of how having an infant death effected her. So much for BK Raja Yoga being "the family path".

I am afraid, just like the pictures of BB everywhere at her demand, that personal trait/trauma has deeply colored the BKWSU organization too.

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Post by yudhishtira » 16 Apr 2007

Hope to post later vis the original 8. In the meantime, I have it on reliable source that Kriplani is DJs MARRIED name. It wasn't her original family name.

I am not sure how if that impacts on your research ex-l. Apparantly it is not something you hear much of, as she likes to give out she was part of all that group from the beginning. I think she has really big insecurity about not being part of the original gathering, hence you hear about her reading the Murli 20 times to try and catch up.

Unfortunatly her insecurity and associated fears etc have continued into the rest of the Western Yagya systems. There's going to be some ouch time at Dharamraj there if she doesnt figure that out ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Apr 2007

yudhishtira wrote:I think she has really big insecurity about not being part of the original gathering, hence you hear about her reading the Murli 20 times to try and catch up. Unfortunatly her insecurity and associated fears etc have continued into the rest of the Western Yagya systems.
I am trying to be polite as possible. I have no grievances with you at all and do not hold you responsible for anyone else's action. But ...

How can "The Most Stable Mind in the World" ... one of the Top 8 Souls ... someone so near to God that it is OK for BK to remember her instead of Shiva Baba ... all of a sudden transfigured by "really big insecurities and associated fears etc" that nigh on 70 years Raja Yoga have done nothing to heal!?! What hope has the rest of us? It does not add up ... does it?

I respect you personally more than either her, or her multifold sycophants, for having courage to come on here to meet us and address these matters. I'd also like to point out that she herself is responsible for instituting a system that declines others the oppportunity to study the Murli and, indeed, has been responsible for very senior BK leaving the BKWSU due to the manner in which the Murlis are taught. May be she, and they, are "insecure" because she has been going along with lies or so many years? May be I am wrong and Janki is only a nickname ...

The list as of 1939;
OM Radhe wrote:Committee
1 Radhi Pokardas Rajwani, 22, unmarried, Haroo Sadhwani Paro
2 Palu Motiram Dhanrajmal, 22, married, Hirabad, Hyderabad
3 Parpati Nanikram Wasvani, 21, unmarried, Hotchand Vishindas Lachman Beragi St
4 Roopvanti Hassaram Balani, 24, married, Haroo Sadhwani Paro
5 Sundri Karamchand Mahtani, 17, unmarried, Old Hospital
6 Gudi Kewalram Mahitani, 28, married, Pishori Paro
7 Rama Gopal Hathiramani, 18, male, Old Hospital
8 Radhika Kishinchand Kirpalani, 26, married, Om Nivas
9 Motil Ratanchand Surtani, 18, unmarried, Bachal Shah Incline

Co-opted
10 Lila Rijhumal Sukhrani, 15, unmarried, Om Nivas
11 Mithi Naraindas Daswani, 18, unmarried, Om Nivas
12 Lachmi Parmanand Daswni, 17, married, Om Nivas
13 Rukmani P. Hathiramani, 36, married, Mathradas Sobhraj Bdg
14 Gopi Hashmatrai Hathiramani, Women's Hospital
15 Sati Bhojraj Wadhwani, 18, married, Wadhwani Lane
16 Lachhmi Sobhraj Chulani, 40, married, Bachal Shah Jo Pir
17 Sati Rijhumal Sakhrani, 45, married, Om Nivas
18 Jasoda Lekhraj Kripalani, 45, married, Om Nivas
Note the male member of the original 9 that has been written out of the history. There is no Janki there.

On the list there are 4 Jankis. According to the propaganda, she would have been 23 at the time;
Janki Khubchand Dasvani, 37
Janki Parmanand Mahtani, 15
Janki Metharam Kripalani, 13
Janki Chellaram Mahtani, 10
And here a few BKWSU/Janki Foundation quotes;
[b]Companion of God[/b] wrote:As a founding member of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, joining in 1937 at the age of 21, she became one of India's first female spiritual leaders. With an unrelenting search for honesty and cleanliness in her relationship with God ...
[b]BKThai.com - The Courage of Conscience Award 2005 [/b] wrote:Dadi Janki was one of the original 16 women Lekhraj assembled in 1937 to found the organization and forge its rapidly expanding vision of the future. Brahma Baba, as the founder came to be known, recognized that women hold inherent power as the creators and protectors of life, a revolutionary concept in India, or anywhere for that matter. He soon vested control of his entire fortune and all administrative responsibility for the organization to those original 16 female students.
BWKSU wrote:Over the past 57 years, Dadi Janki has dedicated her life to the service of humanity. She began her spiritual apprenticeship in 1937 at the age of 21 and was one of the founding members of the BKWSU.
[b]WIE[/b] wrote:Dadi Janki joined the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University in 1937 at the age of 21, and soon became one of India's first female spiritual leaders.
[b]Janki Foundation[/b] wrote:Serving for 14 years as the appointed nurse to a 300-strong spiritual community, from 1937-1951, she observed the impact of mental, emotional and spiritual factors on recovering from illness.
Victoria Mary Clarke wrote:'Dadi' means elder sister and is a term that is used to describe all of the female leaders of the BKs, who joined the organisation as young girls in 1936.

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Post by joel » 16 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:I'd also like to point out that [Janki] herself is responsible for instituting a system that declines others the oppportunity to study the Murli and, indeed, has been responsible for very senior BK leaving the BKWSU due to the manner in which the Murlis are taught.
Have you written about this somewhere?

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