Jagdish Chander?

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milanmagan
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Jagdish Chander?

Post by milanmagan » 28 May 2007

Who is this guy?

I have four Brahma Kumari books from the headquarters in Mt Abu, which I visited in my late teens, and I have noticed that in each book his name is written differently:
  • Raja Yogi B.K. Chander (One Week Course)
    Brahma Kumar Jagdish Chander (Applied Spiritual Knowledge)
    B.K. Jagdish Chander Hassija (Eternal World Drama)
    Raj Yogi Jagdish Chander (Adi Dev)
Weird, huh? I read a mention somewhere online that the BKs regard him as the incarnation of Ganesh, the scribe? Anybody got any more information about this guy?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 29 May 2007

Hi milanmagan, we may need to rely on those BKs who were personal acquaintances of the brother to give us a view on the question you ask. I have a few of publications attributed to the Brother, including the ones you list; and coincidentally I am reviewing another entitled: BRAHMACHARYA - Celibacy - The true path to God Realisation right this minute.

Your sharing of having
read a mention somewhere online that the BKs regard him as the incarnation of Ganesh, the scribe?

got me to thinking (slightly laterally maybe) that for all the proliferation of the late Jagdish Chanter authored publications one may encounter as a student with the BKWSU, there is NOT any personality cult associated with Bro Jagdish! Why?

I can say with some certainty that in my BK environment BK Jagdish's work is held in high regard by "serious" (and more often than not longer serving) students, as against the masses or any efforts to promote him by the BKWSU senior sisters. For the first time in my life I wonder why? Elsewhere we will see on this site discussions about the cult of personality within the BKWSU. Yes, this does happen, but it seems to draw itself to certain BKs only. Is this on merit or by design or by desire of some influential BKs? Or self-interested BKs who feel that there will be some personal kudos to be gained by being seen to 'big-up' one senior or another? You refer to the Trimurti Dadis phenomena.

For the regular posters on this site, I wonder if milanmagan's question can be explored further as an offshoot of the "Are you an ex-BK bro or sister" Poll? I made some musings over there about the male/female balance regarding phenomena of exiting. Maybe i go over there again and add something of the churnings inspired by milanmagan's question.

Milanmagan, having noted your profile I wish you luck with your studies. I don not have any specific information related to Ganesh?. It can be argued that any BKWSU associated reference to any figure out of Hindu mythologhy will NOT have the traditional or exact, same connotation as you would encounter in other sort of hinduism.

In the BKWSU, references to characters from the renowned Hindu epics is largely symbolic and intellectually based on an appreciation of the qualities of the particular character. The BKs say that in Bhakti, truth is like a pinch of salt in a sack full of flour.

In my experience the BKWSU SS that could speak knowingly/entertainingly and with spiritual enlightment on Bhakti and much of its symbolism as relates to BKWSU practice of Raja Yoga and veneration of Shiva as God, is Sister Sudesh who is currently based in Germany, I think.

Thanks for dropping by.

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Post by milanmagan » 30 May 2007

Hi there.

Thanks for your interesting post! It really got me thinking. Particularly this part.
abrahma Kumar wrote:In the BKWSU, references to characters from the renowned Hindu epics is largely symbolic and intellectually based on an appreciation of the qualities of the particular character.
What do you mean by 'largely symbolic'? I would have thought, and perhaps this is my secular education coming in, that the appropriation of well-known cultural elements, their inclusion within a nouveau theology, lends legitimacy to the movement (now and at its founding). Notwithstanding, the fact that Brahma Kumaris claim themselves to have lived as these deities in previous lives!

I guess maybe I am trained to look for power-relations within the fact that the gods are accorded different signifance in BK theology and cosmology.

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Post by milanmagan » 30 May 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:There is NOT any personality cult associated with Bro Jagdish! Why? I can say with some certainty that in my BK environment BK Jagdish's work is held in high regard by "serious" (and more often than not longer serving) students, as against the masses or any efforts to promote him by the BKWSU senior Sisters.
I wasn't suggesting personality cult. It was just an interesting reference that I remembered from my online surfing. Yes, I totally agree - I hold his work in high regard as well! Someone was browing my bookshelf the other day and came across Eternal World Drama, and asked me how long I'd had it. They couldn't comprehend my answer of 3 years - the book is so well-worn! His attention to linguistic history particularly stands out in my mind.

Please explain for me friend, the reference you made in your post to "Trimurti Dadis phenomena."

Thanks!

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Post by abrahma kumar » 30 May 2007

milanmagan wrote:What do you mean by 'largely symbolic'? I would have thought, and perhaps this is my secular education coming in, that the appropriation of well-known cultural elements, their inclusion within a nouveau theology, lends legitimacy to the movement (now and at its founding). Notwithstanding the fact that Brahma Kumaris claim themselves to have lived as these deities in previous lives!
Hi again milanmagan, you are clever! No wonder you are at University. I like the appropriation of well-known cultural elements. Their inclusion within a nouveau theology, lends legitimacy to the movement bit in particular. It is a possibility, but we are not sure, so I tend to reserve judgement on that. :lol:

What I meant was that the BKWSU's teachings are not geared toward giving a student an indepth knowledge of the legends, characters and cultural traditions from which these names or events would otherwise be commonly known or associated. We do not study the Mahabharata or the Gita, the Upanishads, the Ramayana or any other such - dare i say the word "Hindu-centric" publications.

Why? Because there is no need to (so goes the PR). Nor do we believe there were any 4-armed beings, nor elephant-headed persons. However reference is made to all of these in the Murli and we are told that the truth in these publications is but a mere pinch of salt in a sackful of flour.

One could argue that whenever Murli mentions Parvati, Angad, the Dilwala Temple or the Well at Kashi and the like, the depth of coverage is so shallow as to appear like mere name-dropping. However once one becomes well versed in the standard explanations given or stories recounted we tend know the why's of the reference and not bother to much generally. Everything becomes automatic. This is what i mean by symbolic. We do not "study" any other character but for Brahma Baba and Shiv Baba. (Maybe you ought to take the 7 Day Course so that you can listen to a few Murlis yourself to see what i mean ;) ).

BTW, I bet you did not not know that Radhe & Krishna become known throughout the kingdom as Lakshmi and Narayan after their Coronation ceremony. Did you know that milanmagan? I bet not!

The BKWSU teachings inform the student that her/his Bhakti - which in the broadest BKWSU sense can be seen as systems of worship/devotion engaged in with the aim of attaining God or some boon from one deity or another - is now over having finally found the BKWSU. The student is told that she can now put aside all of that stuff and begin in earnest to study the direct words of God (Shiva) Himself via the Murli.

(Jeez, i ought to get a life - anyone would believe i know what i am rambling on about.) :idea:

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Re: Jagdish Chander?

Post by surya » 30 May 2007

milanmagan wrote:Who is this guy? I read a mention somewhere online that the BKs regard him as the incarnation of Ganesh, the scribe? Anybody got any more information about this guy?
Hi Bro,

Jagdish Chander? UPS!!!!!!!!!! Who is this guy? Are you joking! I hear that He was the cause of Lekhraj Kirpalani's heart attack ... ! That's all. I think!

Anything interesting in his books? Any historic events, dates, names or anything regarding the beginning of the Yagya? If so publish it on the History part of the forum, please.

Welcome to the forum ...

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Real villains

Post by new world » 30 May 2007

Suryabhai, you narrow minded fellow, please hold your tongue. PBKs view the senior authorities of BKs as the villains. But the real villains are emerged from the Advance Party. Just as Satish Mehta. Then why PBKs don't dare to talk against him?

PBKs are contradictory in their views. They view the BK world as the mirror image of the PBK world. Thus the villains in the BK world are just the mirror image of the real villains in the PBK world. Now tell me, "is an real object more powerful or is its image more powerful?" Definitely the villains in the PBK world are more powerful than those in the BK world. So the real 10 heads of Ravan must be emerged from the Advance Party & villains in BK organisation must be side villains. But PBKs don't dare to say anything about these real villians. Suryabhai, some heads of Ravan are in the headquarter of Advance Party. I CHALLENGE YOU ALL PBKs THAT YOU cannot DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE REAL VILLIANS LIKE SATISH MEHTA.

What do you know about the respected Jagdishbhai? Its enough to say that you are even less than 1% of Jagdishbhai. And about which history of Yagya, are you talking? Do you know the real Yagya history. All the stories about Sevakram, Gitamata are nothing more than folk stories - total blindfaith. These stories can entertain us very much. But the real story of the Yagya history is still behind the screen.

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Re: Real villains

Post by fluffy bunny » 30 May 2007

OK. I opened a thread in the Commonroon for Mehta et al ...
new_world wrote:What do you know about the respected Jagdishbhai? Its enough to say that you are even less than 1% of Jagdishbhai. And about which history of Yagya, are you talking? Do you know the real Yagya history.
For the record new_world, Jagdish was sweet enough but a nutcase. Some of the stuff he wrote is completely 'off the planet'. He had fun, was committed, but he was deluded ... and he was a willing participant in the falsification of the BKWSU history by the leadership.

Yes, please. Let us have the real history out in the open air!!!

No more illusions and allusions. Walk your talk brother ...

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hi

Post by surya » 30 May 2007

Bro,

OK, apologies if it sounded as you say.

So tell us the real story of the Yagya history that is still behind the screen!

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Post by abrahma kumar » 30 May 2007

Phew! For a while i thought war had broken out. Thank you.

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Jagdishbhai

Post by new world » 30 May 2007

Dear ex-l & Suryabhai, its not that I am very respectful about the authorities of BKs. But there should be royalty in our criticism. About the Yagya history, I don't know anything. But equally, I am not interested in folk stories. What about the real heads of Ravan? Suryabhai, think.

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SATISH MEHTA

Post by surya » 30 May 2007

I will think, OK!

But you first ... who is SATISH MEHTA?

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Re: SATISH MEHTA

Post by button slammer » 30 May 2007

surya wrote:I will think, OK! But you first ... who is SATISH MEHTA?
new_world. I CHALLENGE YOU ALL PBKs THAT YOU cannot DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE REAL VILLIANS LIKE SATISH MEHTA.
It would seem that Satish Mehta is Guru/Prajapita of new_world.

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Re: Jagdishbhai

Post by fluffy bunny » 31 May 2007

new_world wrote: But there should be royalty in our criticism.
I prefer the royalty of a King, which is courageous straightforwardness rather than the royalty of a Queen. There are too many queens in the BKWSU world.

Please have respect for other's time and come to your point, New_World. Just put your card on the table and let us see them.

Jagdish Chander was "the official spokesman" for the BKWSU for it long middle period. He wrote profusely. In fact, until the Double Foreigners started to arrive, he was pretty much the only published voice of the BKWSU. He may actually have been one of, if not the only, intellectual with the BKWSU during that middle period and one that was actually capable of reading other books and material.

Although he wrote the "great classics" of the BKWSU, and produced "Purity" magazine, he wrote some complete and utter nonsense in his time. Stuff which if he had put it forward or critical review would have destroyed any professional or intellectual credibility. As I stated above, he also actively falsified BKWSU history and so from two points of view he falls short.

I remember one of his classics on "sex lust" from the Purity magazine where he resourced all this crazy 19th or even 18th Century literature to portray the ludicrous and fearful evils that would surely befall individuals taking that path. It was, and he was, entirely unscientific in his constructions in support of Gyan and he wrote in a flowery Victorian India English. He was a writer for BKs only.

It is said, but I do not know, that he was inspired by the early Virendra Dev Dixit but this fact needs to be checked. What does seem certain is that there were other intellectual influences within the BKWSU in the early days that left for one reason or another. I also do not know when he came into Gyan and I think this would be key to understanding his vision. He does not appear amongst the early members of the 30s.

He was, and still is revered within the BKWSU just because he was the only one and did the work, but there is little discrimination and too much Bhakti in the mix. he was a sweet man and a good story teller who made people laugh ... even if others will argue that was against Shrimat. It was only, perhaps, when Surya of Germany, Robert Shubow of America and perhaps Ken O'Donell that anywhere near half decent literature started to be produced. The first two have left the BKWSU and Ken has joined the 'Brian Bacon's Business Bhavan of Gyan'.

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Jagdish Chander?

Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Jun 2007

Thank you ex-l

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