Post-BK Quicksand

adikarisoul
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Post-BK Quicksand

Post by adikarisoul » 05 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:I do not think the leadership of the BKWSU had a right to destroy people's lives on the basis of their "Destruction in 2 years" mania. It is another think that makes me think the spirit behind that particular message was not God. Indeed, not even that enlightened a being.
Since 10 months now, I keep wondering who was/is that Being I've been loving, following, thinking of and believing in during all those years and where is He/She now?? Why do I feel around me just an empty silence?

You won't believe it but in my flat I still have a Baba's room. I did not move anything but in so many months I went in there to meditate only 1-2 times. And I still follow many of the basic principles because I find them "right" even now.

But inside I feel like being stuck in a "quicksand". The more I move the more I go down. In other words I feel like being spiritually and somehow even physically "paralized".

Every day I wake up hoping that something will change and that I'll find a way out ... But time is passing and nothing changes. Father, where are you?

Love to all, Adikari

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Father, where are you?

Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Jul 2007

Thanks for sharing adikarisoul.

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alladin
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a charming presence

Post by alladin » 05 Jul 2007

Adikari, hi, nice to see you. Please keep contributing. Help us in counter balancing all those boring posts from pundits and their endless, stale stinking debates :cry: that are clogging the forum. Tell us something that relates to the HEART!! Some Mediterranean energy, some sunshine, please!! :D Or else I will spend money for my internet connection on other sites, man!!

The incognito relationship I always had, inspired me to pick some flowers on wet night - and not only, but especially - for the Great Spirit. I suppose he's around the corner, within reach. He's always been there, before, during and after the Bk circus. Maybe he's appreciating you still, keep Baba's room for him and waiting for an invitation. He will not refuse, I am sure.

Why don't you try to connect to him in any simple relationship, one you feel comfortable with. Setting aside any thoughts of service, roles, BK, bla bla and interferences and see what happens?

Why do I still feel him close? I am "inaccurate" in many things according to BK rules. Is it a love bond or my imagination? And even if it is imagination, it's keeping me sane (to my own degree!! :lol:) and happy. So why not claiming your right to that connection NOW? What prevents us from doing that? Possibly thinking of God as Dharamraj? That - and the consequent/attached feelings of guilt, inadequacy, not deserving, worthliness etc ... - it is the worst possible image pushed forward by many religions.

Can we become free of that? As we said in the May '68 revolution, "imagination in power" let's try and let it be a positive one!! Who can stop us??

Love and good wishes.

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Post by adikarisoul » 05 Jul 2007

Thank you Abek and Alladin.

Maybe Alladin is right and what blocks me from having again a contact with God is a subtle but intense feeling of not being worthy anymore to have the right to feel His loving presence but only His Dharamraj-side.

At the beginnig of my ex-BK life I did not feel that bad. Somehow the "anger" I was feeling inside myself caused by my extreme disappointment in the "BK Circus" kept me going. After a while though, I started to feel the way I do now.

On one side, I am discovering day by day (through the forum), that several things in the BK Knowledge and in the "DIVINE" BK Family are false ; and on the other hand, I still hold quite strongly to Gyan and to many of the Maryadas because I LIKE THEM!!

Yesterday I was thinking that perhaps the fact of leaving together with another disappointed and "still quite angry" ex-BK is making things even more difficult. Somehow it seems to me that for ex-BKs who had the fortune to find a nice NON-BK partner it's easier to adjust to a new type of life.

On some days I wonder: "What if we are wrong and the whole BK knowledge turns out to be true?" Even if there are some mistakes and some discrepancies in Gyan they might just be due to human interference.

Who among us can say that he/she is SURE to be 100% RIGHT and that THEY are 100%WRONG?? (I am just talking about the Knowledge and not about the way and manners of the BK Family). Please take my words in the right sense and don't be upset, I just need to share with "friends" what is in my heart.

Love and good feelings to all, Adikari

PS: If my post is not appropriate for this section please remove it or put it somewhere else

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jul 2007

I am sticking my neck out here but I would not take out of the emotional equation which you are experience, that there may be negative psychic influences that ex-BKs face which are not of themselves but which they do experience on leaving the "jealous gods" of the BKs.

I do separate that the loving God of all, and the jealous gods of the BK. Others on this forum have claimed to experience negative vibes and interference after leaving Gyan and if challenging it.

Try just lying back on a bed, put a pillow over your head or something, and just relax yourself within your body, do not "DO" meditation or anything, just relax your body and spirit. After soem time, see if you can feel if the negative feelings are actually coming from inside you or from outside ... or where it is. That is, do you feel fine and it is only external "weather"?

There does seem to be a psyshically stormy period whilst ex-ing, or if in a relationship with another BK type, as partners of BKs have described on this forum. It does not last forever. If you friend is a BK-type and still involved with or wrestling with BK, then you might be being effected by the vibrations through him.

Personally, I think it is better to have a period of complete cut and mental separation from the BKWSU. Put all your BK stuff in a box. (do not through it away just yet as we might like some of it here as archive material!!!) What about turning your meditation room into a room for revering all of life and creation rather than Destruction and instutional control. Commit to life as what it is for a while, and not "death alive" as per BK.

Even their gods are off doing other stuff for 355 days a year ...

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Post by joel » 05 Jul 2007

adikarisoul wrote:[...] inside I feel like being stuck in a "quicksand". The more I move the more I go down. In other words I feel like being spiritually and somehow even physically "paralized". Every day I wake up hoping that something will change and that I'll find a way out ... But time is passing and nothing changes. Father, where are you?
Hi Adikari,

Thanks for bringing up the subject of being stuck in quicksand.

Before joining the BKs I had feelings of being 'stuck'. That nothing was changing in my life. Then, as BK, I believed God was giving me everything. I left when I discovered that I did not seem to be changing! Post-BK, I still feel stuck at times.

I think that when I can risk experiencing love in relationships with others, the feelings of inner love and the love of God are more available to me. In this world, change comes through my own acts, through interactions with others, through awareness within action and interaction.

I am not sure this applies to you, Adi, but I think many BKs have turned to God hoping it will spare them the uncertainties of love in the human world, which the BKs (wrongly in my opinion) characterize as intrinsically dirty, false and unfulfilling.

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Post by adikarisoul » 06 Jul 2007

Thanks ex-l, Joel, Paul + all

for writing back to me either on the Forum or privately. All your sharing and suggestions are helpful and I'll do my best to follow them. I admire those of you who managed to break away completely from the BK system and are now experiencing a new fulfilling life but this doens't seem to apply to me.

Am I stupid or weaker than all of you for being trapped in this situation?

When I joined the BK (I was in my late twenties), I was searching for something that could bring Peace and Balance in that "disaster" that was my life. During my whole pre-BK life I always felt sort of an "alien" compared to my lokik family and friends.

I believed deeply and completely in Love, true Frienship, Faithfulness, Honesty and Generosity. I did not care for money but for "FEELINGS", and I wanted to do something in my life that could contribute to make this world "a better place" to live in for all. When I found Gyan I thought that a "miracle" had happened! I truly felt that I had found all I had been searching for.

I loved and I still do to wake up early in the morning, (as a teenager during my lokik studies I used to go to bed at 9 PM and wake up at 3 - 3:30AM) and going to Murli class every morning. Till today, "l simply love" pure vegetarian food and never eat outside (I bring my own food at work), and I don't miss at all meat, onions or garlic in my food. I also found always "very natural" and pleasant taking bath several times a day. Over the last months I've been reading again many religious/spiritual books but nothing seems to make sense to me when compared to Gyan.

Some of you may say that all that is because of having been brainwashed by BKs but then how come that many aspects of Shrimat were natural for me even before Gyan? Being the situation as such you can imagine why do I feel "stuck" in my present situation and completely lost again.

And, last but not least is that, if something doesn't change quickly I will loose even my partner (ex-BK too) because we're becoming more and more distant day by day. The reasons are that he is very angry with the BKs and even with me for having lost, as he says, "all the best years of his life". (He became a BK after myself also due to my encouragement). He doesn't want to speak and/or to know about the BKs at all. Since a while he started drinking some beers and also smoking again (not in our flat though) and he would like to have a regular and normal sexual relationship with me.

But even though I do love him I still feel the attraction of purity. I don't think that sex is "dirty", I just feel naturally better without it. I don't know if it's just the habit of so many years or if it's because I am not young any more ... I don't know but that's as it is.

And the tragic/funny side of it all is that I am sure that for the BKs Seniors and juniors the only reason why I left Gyan is "of course" because I've been defeated by the great enemy i.e. SEX-LUST. Oh, Father ...

Thanks for your patience and understanding.
Much love to all,
Adikari

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Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Jul 2007

Do you think your partner would be unwilling to join us here to discuss the feelings that he is having? There is hardly anywhere else for him to go!

Following such principles is not unique to the BKs, what was it that made you leave Gyan in the first place? Sure, a drop off in the interest in sex in normal in the vast majority of marriages/relationships and as one gets older. As is often a feeling of simply being used by their partner by many women.

Now that I have taken a position outside of Gyan, I do too feel a little guilty for those I got into the BKWSU and if they came to me to be upset there is little that I could do or say that would be an apology enough. Thankfully none have, or they might still be in there and happy. It seems you have your karma instantly with your friend for getting them in!

Do you think that relationship is coming to an end? How do you feel about that? (I have to admit, I think that smoking really would end a relationship for me!)

Yes, Gyan has a very strong gravity that pulls us into it. This is explained as "proof" that it must be true. I am not convinced because of all the anomalies, historical revisions and re-writing. I think it is just a psychic thing. And an organization is only the individuals within it, what were the experiences that made you leave?

Of course, the BK line would be that you had karma to settle with this other person, had to leave to do so and you will have to return. (That always sounds like a bit of a curse to me!).

What do you want and where do you want to go now?

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Post-BK Quicksand & Exiting-BK Quagmires

Post by abrahma kumar » 06 Jul 2007

adikarisoul, i was never as pukka as you - and sometimes i think that it why i am here. Sometimes i look at my situation and feel shame at the shambles that is my life.

Exiting presents one not only with quicksand but quagmires also! I do not have time right now to post at length but this topic will be helpful for us. I have never sought professional assistance in developing an understanding/appreciation of myself. My weaknesses are glaringly obvious; my talents are somewhat shy but I sense that they run deep.

I have perceived my whole life through all sorts of lenses; compulsive persecution disorders, sexual dysfunction, complicated family situation, sibling estrangement, social stigma, substance-enduced euphoria, suspicion, job dissatisfaction, BK oblox, broken BK oblox, rebellion, doing as i please sometimes hurting others, sometimes being hurt. Damn I could go on and on ... procrastination syndrome, Maryadas/what Maryadas?!, fatherhood, wonderful creative experiences, a love of music, travel. A typical mixed bag, i suppose.

But now I want to sort that stuff out. I may be in the dark about much of what makes me tick, but i want to be free. Raja Yoga was meant to help me with that. Sadly, in my case, its success has only been partial. Or has it? In some ways, i feel more ready for the next stage of my life. I feel alive and sometimes dead at the same time. But i am beginning to sus that staying BK-hooked is a sort of death for me. And not only the much publicised and chased after dying-alive obox.

I think that all of my life I have been enslaved to oblox of one sort or another. I seem to have been deprived - and deprived myself through my own actions - of the comfort of knowing who abek is! All the time abek had to deal with "stuff". No sooner had one set of "stuff" simmered down, up abe goes and "stuffs" up himself again like some stuff addict. I suspect that my connection with the BKs might be a sort of "stuff-addiction".

But, finally, i am beginning to feel that "stuff" is losing its appeal to me. And i do not mean only the stuff reflected by my involvement on this site. I wanna fly like an eagle into the future (Seal has done some great songs, hasn't he?). I have been creeping around for too long and i do not wanna repent all of my life. Time to put some of the persistent positive images and thoughts for self that have stood out amidst the carnage into practice! As one friend said; Abe, stop being an egoist. By which it was meant; stop talking and start walking the talk!

So maybe my way out of the Exiting-BK Quagmire will be to take my relationship with G-O-D into my own hands and say goodbye to any association with them except on terms that i feel 100% comfortable with. I ought to cut that particular dependency chain and see what happens. And after that? I deal with the post-BK Quicksand. Perhaps by then i would have grown into the flying stage.

BTW; thanks paulkershaw. Given everything I have said here there is one other thing that excites me about exiting. And that's fatherhood. Looking at the whole package of my life as is presently structured and experienced, I do not think that it has been a shining example for a couple of young men that i share a living space with. No, I do not want their adulation of me as some sort of cult-hero figure. But i do not want oblox getting in the way me really feeling as a Father anymore.

In some ways i have even managed to distract myself from that? Is BK to blame? Not at all. But the lifestyle can make one blinkered. Feeling sort of like; here i have found everything! And everything i will ever need! It seems dangerous to get caught up in such idealistic conjecture.

Even before i hit my teens i was playing 'dad' and time passes quickly. Soon i will not feel that they are children any more - silly me they are teenagers already. I now need to demonstrate what i have inculcated regarding the whole Father/Son/Male-Friend oblox. Not only inculcation via spiritual insight but inculcation as a consequence of one's own maturation. So maybe the Exiting-BK situ is only seen as a quagmire if one loses hope in the ability to shape the life you want to live.

(Apologies as i guess that do not make much sense).

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Post by yudhishtira » 06 Jul 2007

On one side, I am discovering day by day (through the forum), that several things in the BK Knowledge and in the "DIVINE" BK Family are false ; and on the other hand, I still hold quite strongly to Gyan and to many of the Maryadas because I LIKE
I can relate to that and the turmoils you are having. It has taken me about 6 years to come to terms with the fact that they Gyan and the Baba that I love is actually a separate entitiy to the organisational hierarchy that has colonised and appropriated it. And to realise that I can have my own connection with God and that I am not a bad person for now wanting to take on the co-dependant, critical, fear-promoting and body conscious systems of the hierarchy.

You are Shiv Baba's beloved child and for that matter, Brahmas too. (Although I went through a period of being very ****** with him and ignoring him). Nothing can take that away from you.

As long as the way you practise your faith is POSITIVE NOT DESTRUCTIVE TO YOUR SELF ESTEEM then you do not need to throw it away just because you are no longer choosing to practice it in the confines of the organisation. Be aware that there is a lot of baggage of shame, guilt and fear that is not spiritual that comes through the way teachers communicate the knowledge and you do not need to take that with you.

the way I see it, God is an ocean of love. So beating myself up isnt really what he would want for me. I just reached a point where I refused to guilt trip myself into doing things any more. Also; God loves us before we become Brahmins and are in the mire ... I really do not think that the unlimited, unconditional God I connect with is going on some judgement trip because of any of my actions. Especially when he keeps going on at us to be merciful and unconditionally loving to others! I've had to learn to seperate God from his "official instruments" and acknowledge that they are not perfect, do not belong on a pedestal, and do not deserve any more of my love and respect than the next guy on the street. Which wasnt easy, because I tried to make them a short cut to God for me. But it doesnt work ... Regarding;
Am I stupid or weaker than all of you for being trapped in this situation?
Definately not. Its not easy to take a step away from what is familiar and safe. And regarding your partner, if they are projecting their anger with the BKs on you, that's not easy. Its also not fair on you. Communication is the only path out of this. You both need to talk openly and honestly about what you are going through.

All relationships go through difficult patches. I've posted this elsewhere but I realy like the approach in "Conscious Loving - G. Hendricks" (its on Amazon.com) because they acknowledge that we all bring stuff into relationships that can sabotage them, and how to get around it.

I wish you all the best. You do not need to throw away your faith with the dirty bathwater that is the non-spiritually practising bk system.

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Post by adikarisoul » 06 Jul 2007

Dear ex-l,

thank you for your last message. I found your words and thoughts always very clear and sharp. I spoke to my partner about the forum but he doesn't want to join it because, for him, it is better (he says) to CANCEL completely from his mind and his life anything that has to do with BK. And I think that according to his character this is right because by reading all that is to be found here on the Forum he could become even more upset and angry.

I am afraid that our relationship after 17 years is coming to an end. A couple of days back in fact, I asked him to move out for a while in order for both of us to have the time and the space to think deeply and honestly about us, and decide what's to be done for the future.

To make you better undestand the whole situation I've been in Gyan 21 years and I met my partner 17 years ago in a similary difficult and sad period of my Bk life. At that time I had distanced my self from the BKs for the same reason as I did 10 months ago, i.e. I liked the knowledge, I liked Shrimat but I never ever felt myself completely at ease due to the coldness, rudness, lack of sincerity, lack of love and manipulation of the majority of the members of the BK family.

The relationship has always been extremely painful expecially in connection with that bunch of bitter, suspicious, jalous, manipulative, restless and crazy people that are "the jewels of the BK Clan" in my country. And there must be a reason if, after 25 years of service in this country, the regular BKs are maybe less than they were at the beginning.

The difference between the past and now is that before I did not like the behaviour and manners of many BKs but I never doubted Gyan. Today, even though I found that most of the knowlede still makes sense to me, I am not sure anymore about the Being that is behind all that. In other words, I am not sure at all that the One behind the BK organisation is truly GOD.

But then who is that Being? Why suddendly I am not able anymore to communicate with Him? And why at the same time all the different paths, religions, spiritual knowledge that are available are completely TASTELESS to me? What to do? Where to go? I honestly don't know.

I am so fed up and tired that If I did not believe in karma and reincarnation I would just decide to leave this body and this life but I do.

LOVE, ADIKARISOUL.

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Quicksand

Post by joel » 06 Jul 2007

adikarisoul wrote:Every day I wake up hoping that something will change and that I'll find a way out ... But time is passing and nothing changes. Father, where are you?
Adi,

Speaking meditatively, and to myself as much as to anyone in your quicksand, you may be unconsciously holding yourself in a situation where you are dependent on the universe to intervene. Hunger, impoverishment, need for companionship can be strong incentives to act in the world. he hunger for mutual sexual gratification motivates many. You may be driven to the next level of depth of authentically behaving and communicating, when the future of your partnership is on the line.

Crisis, says The Guide (a being channeled by Eva Pierrakos), is what precipitates change that we don't bring otherwise to our lives. From that entity's viewpoint, crisis is a blessing that breaks us out of our stuckness.

I prophesize for you Adi, that some combination of external crisis and inner incentive will catapult you into a new situation and new possibilities to engage your creative attentions.

There are people with much less incentive than you have to work with, Adi. Hospitals destroy the incentive for stroke patients (and many other patients!) to re-adapt themselves to drinking and eating. An IV keeps these people always topped-up with fluids and calories: they are never hungry and never thirsty, hence no urgency to explore what are some of our developmentally earliest functions, most deeplying embedded in our reflexes, with high probability of recovery. (There are so many different nerves going through the mouth, tongue, lips and jaw that people can survive with major disruptions to several different nerves.)

The addition of a nasal-gastric tube, an alien object that interferes with swallowing, that reflexes would eject by coughing, becomes a disfiguring badge of obedience. The patient, to survive, must voluntarily inhibit her own reflexes, subserving herself to the dictates of a distant other, a treatment that may be delivered compassionately under which one slowly loses one's own gender and all other vestiges of humanity.

In my meditative essays, I am exploring some examples of how and under what influences something like medical care - which we expect to be nourishing to health - can actually shatter the person's last defenses and depelete their last reserves of strength before some final shock deprives them of their lives.

Adi, probably you are not in a hospital, behind bars, attached to a tube that they say you may die if you remove it. You have incentives of some hungers.

Your tone of writing uses images of crisis. Of being smothered in quicksand. Do you want to dramatize the experience of being in the quicksand, or perhaps ask what you would be doing if you were pulled out of the quicksand, what you would see on four sides of where the quicksand is/was?

I have, personally, spent some days more or less helplessly reading the stuff on the Web, as thoough I could do nothing else. And then I hate myself for it. For all the other things I could have had in my life. How many happy moments of discovery i might have had noodling bluesy sounds out of the nylon string classical guitar that sits in the corner.

In one dream I was swimming in a pool, I had to do laps across the pool instead of down the length because a huge oblong block of tar blocked the way.

Sometimes we need the tar. When how and where to we invoke the tar? How does it help us? What does it protect ourselves from having to learn or to adjust, to expand our world, our conception of ourselves? How is it connected with our stubbornness, wanting everything on our our terms, stubborness so deep we would die to protect it, even though it may be our own straightjacket?

As far as caring for erogenous intimacy, I read what you say to mean you have a take-it-or-leave-it attitude but you are more attracted to "purity" (I don't know what you mean by this word.) I urge you to go deep, listen to your heart and your dreams. Your choices may determine the future of your relationship.

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Post by pilatus » 06 Jul 2007

adikari wrote:But inside I feel like being stuck in a "quicksand". The more I move the more I go down. In other words I feel like being spiritually and somehow even physically "paralized". Every day I wake up hoping that something will change and that I'll find a way out ... But time is passing and nothing changes. Father, where are you?
Dear adikari,

Welcome to the forum and best wishes for your ongoing issues/concerns with partner, BK and God. Having read the various posts/replies, there's a lot of positive points/messages which may be relevant for you and you can see that your story resonates with quite a number of us. The art is to recognize what we have in common and in what sense our stories/positions are different ...

I certainly identify a lot with your feelings of quicksand and paralysis. Ironically, throughout the accelerated period of my personal development journey (last 7 years), I've repeatedly found myself in periods where things have slowed down and I've felt stuck.

Unlike you, I was only involved with the BK for 6 years and was probably never 100% committed. And although I gained a lot from my time there, I also experienced some profound depths.

Since deciding to cut my BK ties in February this year, I've been through an even longer "down" time while I came to terms with a new way of life. I am now entering that next phase - new home in March, new job in October, reconnection with my Christian roots, engaging with this forum.

There are two main things I want to share with you;
  • 1 ) I've learnt over the last 7 years to accept these slow periods as part of my journey - these dark nights are always followed by glorious dawns of new stages in life.
    2) God is always there for you - you just sometimes have to be patient and tolerant with yourself in reestablishing your connection with Him. It will come.
I also identify to some extent with ex-l's remarks of a jealous "god" who pulls on our energy levels via those (sometimes long-) established connections. Again it takes time, patience and love to let those links dissolve. I would suggest that you don't try to rush or force this - try to see it as part of a separation/grieving process. We still have images of Shiva Baba and BB in the meditation room at home but personally I choose a different focus point for meditation until I am ready to replace it with something else.

Hope this helps. All our best wishes,

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Post by joel » 06 Jul 2007

adikarisoul wrote:But then who is that Being? Why suddendly I am not able anymore to communicate with Him? And why at the same tyme all the different paths, religions, spiritual knowledge that are available are completely TASTELESS to me? What to do ? Where to go? I honestly don't know. I am so fed up and tired that If I didnt' believe in karma and reincarnation I would just decide to leave this body and this life but I do.
There are many activities in life that I can reach out to to connect myself to myself and myself to the world. Sometimes all are tasteless. Some call it depression, some call it the blues. BKs might call it 'Maya'.

Probably, if you were fulfilled in expressing yourself through music, art, dance, you wouldn't be missing God.

I think you may be suffering from the human disease of depression, not necessarily cut off from God, but quite possibly cutting yourself off. You might benefit, if you are as desperate as you say, from consulting with a therapist. It is an act of humility that you cannot figure out what to do about your life.

Good luck.

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Reprogramming + exiting

Post by alladin » 06 Jul 2007

Hi, these posts make me think of the infinite variety of souls who pass through the Bk organisation and exit, or try to. Different feelings and reactions.

For some, the whole process is more painful and difficult than others. Some, like Adi's partner, have taken sorrow but decided to bury it all. Some have been in such traumatic situations with the organisation, SS etc., that got a clear idea about what's going on and took an irrevocable decision, "I am out and will not return". Some agonize because they still have a foot in the boat, even doing some service or exposing themselves to center-in-charges etc ... or feeling compelled to go to the center ...

In my case, and I am not saying that i am always flying around happily, the drifting away has been gradual. I felt it as a current taking me away from that shore, no need to really lift the anchor or cut a rope. I could see the BK land becoming more and more distant ... I had some thought about going to a main center and get "fixed". Some places like London have the reputation for being excellent "spiritual hospitals", where wounded souls end up and get "reprogrammed".

When we are vulnerable, we run the risk of looking for help from SS, in which we have blind faith, (they squeal, BTW!) put our damaged souls into their hands, for more abuse. We become meat for slaughter. I have seen many cases where damaged or doubtful BKs, got strange advise of moving to a center or country that represented a big challenge or hid special difficulties. Because we are ranks to be sacrificed, so a wounded BK, or a potential rebel, can be sent on the frontline to be completely killed eventually, nothing to loose!!!

That's how merciful this organisation is. Or am I too merciless to say this? Well, my laziness saved me. I never went for "reprogramming" and, so far, no shark ate me.

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