Details on a BK in progress

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jannisder
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Details on a BK in progress

Post by jannisder » 24 Jul 2007

First introduction
7 day course, love bombing, etc.
Why can they (you) still believe this fake organization???
It is time to get out!

Do you still want to join the BKWSU?

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Re: Details on a BK in progress

Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jul 2007

jannisder wrote: love bombing, etc.
Why can they (you) still believe this fake organization???

Do you still want to join the BKWSU?
Did you experience love bombing? I am not so sure it happens. Certainly not consciously. New BKs are rare. In small centers folks are happy to meet and be interested in new people. Its not possible to exclude the plain human aspect of BK entirely? They are lonely (and sick of seeing the same faces day in day out) too!

I do wonder how "truth" can be promoted on the foundations of so many deceptions ... but look at how well Christianity expands and it is almost entirely fictional! The BKWSU is multi-multi-facted. Many things to many people ... somewhere to sit out of the cold ... somewhere to hide ... somewhere to escape. As long as it answer, or promises to answer, some human needs it will exist.

Sorry to depress you but many end of the world religions have gone on survive 100 or 100s of years after the failure of its teachings. Expect to be here in a 100 years time saying the same thing!!!

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Re: Details on a BK in progress

Post by tinydot » 26 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:I do wonder how "truth" can be promoted on the foundations of so many deceptions ... but look at how well Christianity expands and it is almost entirely fictional! The BKWSU is multi-multi-facted. Many things to many people ... somewhere to sit out of the cold ... somewhere to hide ... somewhere to escape. As long as it answer, or promises to answer, some human needs it will exist.
I agree. We are like programmed human beings that believe many stories and pass them on. Now that we have a lot of these communication tools, like the internet and cellphones, I wonder if these fictional stories get to be believed by many, faster than they are being debunked by factual information. I guess as long as people are enslaved by their senses and by their emotions, they can be easily controlled and manipulated.

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Re: Details on a BK in progress

Post by tinydot » 26 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:Sorry to depress you but many end of the world religions have gone on survive 100 or 100s of years after the failure of its teachings. Expect to be here in a 100 years time saying the same thing!!!
The thing that propels these organizations that survived longer that the failed teachings, is in my humble opinion, the social and political ties they have created. This social and political aspect is so very powerful that it can force people to remain in power and denounce the truth.

Original members die but their successors are trapped in a situation wherein they cannot renounce the teachings even though they know it is false. Then the succeeding members build a sort of bond (social connections) through their recruits (family, friends, etc.), who may propagate the story but may find themselves trapped also in the organization.

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Post by jannisder » 26 Jul 2007

Exactly.

But if an organization like this is more and more involved in politics, doing all nice talking and politicians know about the VIP service on governments (to gain 3 feet a day and than own the world bit by bit), what would they think about that, that it is all a joke?

BTW, they told me they are not a religion. So what are they?

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Post by mr green » 26 Jul 2007

In my opinion, they are an Indian apocalyptic death cult.

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Post by zhuk » 30 Jul 2007

I am with you, mr green :).

Millenarian cults tend to be like that ... and with the greatest hold over their followers. After all, THE TIME IS ALMOST HERE!! :D. So you better toe the line ... or you miss out on all the promised riches lol.

And jannisder, yes they *will* tell you they are NOT a religion. Coming from my firmly & lifelong natural atheistic tendencies, the BKs had to really work at me to convince me they were NOT a religion (knowing I would have rapidly turned away had I realised that at the start). Only a couple of years later when I was out of the cult & still talking to a pukka BK, did he rather sheepishly & grudgingly admit to me that yes, indeed they were. :roll:.

Having pointed out the worshipped deity/rituals/proscribed behaviours/thoughts, now backed into a corner he couldn't move from, the admission had to come eventually :lol:.

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It IS a religion

Post by abrahma kumar » 30 Jul 2007

jannisder wrote:Exactly. But if an organization like this is more and more involved in politics, doing all nice talking and politicians know about the VIP service on governments (to gain 3 feet a day and than own the world bit by bit), what would they think about that, that it is all a joke? BTW, they told me they are not a religion. So what are they?
Jannisder please do not be in any doubt about this religion point. It is even in the Murli that what the BKs engage themselves in is a religion. I posted a few Murli points on the site discussing this. The BKs prefer NOT to comtemplate and/or confess to the religion issue perhaps because it might take the gloss of those lofty feelings they have about their teachings and practices. You see Jannisder, what may cloud the issue for the students is that the Murli, and entire BK philosophy, asserts that they are NO LONGER WORSHIPPERS. If any BKWSU student wishes to contribute coherent arguments on this matter I am willing to listen - but they'll have to go some to dissuade me.

On a more general point; I was exploring whether and how it happens that what the BKs preach and the emotional consequence of those teachings seem to be in opposition to each other. Maybe it is because the teachings flip-flop so much that we are kept in a state of confusion, ignorance and denial of the reality of the programming we are receiving.

For instance someone said that:
the effort we have to do is only to become detached then we automatically become loving. There is no need to make separate effort to become loving. The more one becomes detached, the more one becomes loving, automatically.
This dharna sounds illogical and the wrong way around to me. Is it really an inclusive, human viewpoint?

I am wondering whether this phenomena is a product of the programming. So that inspite of the BKs claims to nurture and inculcate loving feelings, the subtle impact of the oblox is that the student psychologically and sub-consciously, gives greater weight to the first word; detached over the second word: love.

So, for interactions with humans "an attitude of detachment" becomes the ideal. While Shiva gats ALL our love to the exclusion of real, loving experiences of ourself AND our fellow humans.

I know nothing.

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Re: Details on a BK in progress

Post by peter de » 30 Jul 2007

tinydot wrote:I guess as long as people are enslaved by their senses and by their emotions, they can be easily controlled and manipulated.
But this is actually what the BK tries to realise; to become free from the slavery of the senses, to become free from the fluctuations of their emotions! To get controle over them selves. Not over others.

I never heard about a discussion over being a religion. It is clear, Shiv' Baba calls this organisation "The Brahmin religion", becoming the deity religion.

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Post by peter de » 30 Jul 2007

Hey Zhuk, What is "lol"? In my language (dutch) it means 'fun'.

Abrahma Kumar, you write: While Shiva gats ALL our love to the exclusion of real, loving experiences of ourself AND our fellow humans.

Is "gats"= gets?

For me it seams logical when Shiva gets our love, automatically everyone gets it. I think love knows no boundaries. I felt it that way whole my life. That is probably why I never married. I felt it to be artificial. Love the whole world! Love God, it's the same.

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Details on a BK in progress

Post by abrahma kumar » 30 Jul 2007

peter de wrote:Hey Zhuk, What is "lol"? In my language (dutch) it means 'fun'. Abrahma Kumar, you write: While Shiva gats ALL our love to the exclusion of real, loving experiences of ourself AND our fellow humans. Is "gats"= gets?

For me it seams logical when Shiva gets our love, automatically everyone gets it. I think love knows no boundaries. I felt it that way whole my life. That is probably why I never married. I felt it to be artificial. Love the whole world! Love God, it's the same.

Welcome peter de. Yes, it should be gets so if I have a chance to edit the post i will correct it. Thanks for sharing your experience. lol stands for "Laughing Out Loud". My sharing was an exploration of how it could be the case that one might feel that the only effort we have to make is to become detached and that through this effort we will automatically become loving.

For my part I am trying to assess where there is anything to be learn in NOT discarding the view (that detachment is primary) as either an inconsequential matter of semantics, or whether it is actually right. The poster did not express the view that "when Shiva gets our love, automatically everyone gets it."

I will think some about the aspect of the world being automatically included when Shiva gets my love. Peter de, if you do not mind my asking, how long have you been a BK student?
Enjoy the forum.

Thanks

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Post by jannisder » 31 Jul 2007

Hallo Peter de, welkom op het forum, denk dat je veel te lezen en te ontdekken hebt. Ik heb er veel van geleerd en leer elke dag en vond veel steun bij deze nieuwe vrienden. Je mag me altijd mailen hoor.

Geluk Jannisder.

Hi Peter de, welcome to the forum, i think you have a lot to read and to explore. I learned so much from this forum and still learn everyday, and got so much support from my new friends. You can always pm me.

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Post by peter de » 01 Aug 2007

Hello abrahma kumar,

Your name reminds me of the book "The Eternal World Drama" by Jagdish Chandler. Do you know it? Read it? There is a Chapter "World history from Adam to Abraham". Brother Jagdish explains something about the name 'Abraham', that it stems from 'a Brahma', like Brahma. This aside, because it is not the topic here.

What is oblox?

Yoga is a small word but there is a lot to say about it. I think everyone's experience is in a different way. What I said about God, I think you can say it of everyone: When I give my love to someone (either God, human, animal, even plant if you want) that love will reach that person (or item) but it will not stay there as in a closed box. From that person it will radiate to the environment, to other persons, souls. At the end it will come back to you. A lot of lonelyness and heartbreaking pain is sufferd by us, I guess, because of the wrong (but strong) idea that everything is devided from the rest. Science AND spirituality proves that it is not so. Everything is connected with eachother. That means that if we love one molecule in the universe, the whole universe benefits. That means that if we hate one molecule, the whole universe suffers.

OK, it matters if we say; "I am a BK", "I am not a BK. We try to make things clear. But actually, we are not divided. There is constant influence between each other. I don't like the idea of sects. That's why I am here.

Reconcilliation is a word I love very much. One world, one brother - and sisterhood.

Hello jannisder,

Bedankt voor je "Welkom". Yes, I have to orientate myself on this forum.

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Post by peter de » 01 Aug 2007

abek wrote:Peter de, if you do not mind my asking, how long have you been a BK student?
Well, I was born as BK 17 years ago. The first 6 years I came and went and stayed in total for 3 years. Then I stopped totally for 6 years. Now I am back for 4 years but in a much slower manner. And more at a distance.

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radiating love

Post by alladin » 01 Aug 2007

Hi, everybody! I like the idea of universal love and I experience that when I am deeply in love with the Great Spirit, I am in love with all beings, without attachment to anyone in particular, without desires or expectations to be loved back, etc. Fully contented. Maybe that's the mystic stage of "atindria suk", joy beyond the senses, a stage of euphoria. And for sure that spreads all around and benefits the world. I should probably work more on creating that stage of closeness to God rather than chasing after rainbows with human beings, but I do not always feel so "ascetic" ! I admit that when love flows in some particular direction, there's a risk that most of our energy will run in one way only to the exclusion of every body and every where else!

To me, investing our love mainly on the Supreme, is not a bad idea, as He definetely does not fluctuate (sorry for the analogy, but I am just back from the bank!!) like the rest of the stock market. However, this can become a risky operation, when we choose that unique relationship due to "escapism" from humans (we have lots of scars and sorrow connected to such relationships!).

Many BKs become very dry and cold with people, unaccessible, unavailable, not giving, closed, distant, we all know, and they think they are "angelic"!! That condition, I think, reveals that the soul is not exactly doing what a Yogeshwari should: filling himself with pure love from the Highest source and radiating it and sharing it with his fellow creatures!

Hi, Peter, welcome! Safety distance, custom-made involvement, worked wonders in my case! I just suited me and enabled me to take benefit from Raja Yoga, whilst remaining objective to a certain degree, at least!

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