Feeling a bit lost

sarah
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Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 25 Feb 2008

Hi, I first came across the BKs last summer. I was having a few problems with my husband and family. The centre was run by three lovely people - let's call them 'Mike' 'Jane' and 'Sue'. I loved the meditation and the various workshops.

I went on the Raja Yoga course and found The Cycle challenging, but sort of accepted it. I had always got a lot out of Buddhism, preferring to concentrate on the basic teachings and putting them into practice in my life. My problem was that I needed to experience God personally and I found that tools helping me to deal with my secular life were somewhat limiting. My BK experience was amazing and gradually my life seemed to improve, I had a connection with God and my relationships seemed to be more relaxed.

I never really questioned why it was that every time I returned home from a discussion with Mike, Jane and Sue, I had terrible rows with my husband. I began to see him in a different light, i.e he was impure, not on the same wavelength, using me etc etc. I gradually turned against him and spend most of my time with my new friends. By now we were having intense discussions and I began to feel that if I really was to be myself I would have to leave John, my husband. Eventually I did and I moved to a flat literally one street away from the centre. My family were upset but I just told them that I just needed space to re-evaluate my life. I had never intended staying there for ever to be really honest.

I loved my husband and did not want to give up on that. The stress of trying to keep both sides happy and prevent as much damage as I could, eventually led me to have a breakdown and I was off work, finding it almost impossible to get up in the morning or even put one foot in front of the other. Mike, Jane and Sue were amazing. They would invite me to use the centre as my home, I eat with them, they would let my cat in and out and feed him and they even started arriving at the flat uninvited checking that I was OK or suggesting some DIY improvement. I felt loved, nurtured and safe.

Gradually as time went on the teachings intensified and I was introduced to more and more information. I was only eating food prepared in the centre, had stopped eating fish altogether which I had always eaten, stopped drinking, avoided friends who were not BKs, and devoured every CD and book I was given. The problems started when i was invited to listen to the Murlis each morning. I found that every question me and another newcomer 'Paul' asked respectfully (and because we just wanted to understand as best we could) it was met with what I can only describe as disapproval and a feeling that we 'just were not getting it.' I am sure it is not unusual for somebody brought up in a fishing village in Europe to find Hindu terms difficult to grasp at first, but anyway, I eventually accepted that I needed to have my consciousness raised if I really wanted to be able to understand the voice of God (I never could say Baba).

Sometimes Mike seemed on the verge of losing his temper with us, not because he was an aggressive person I don't think, but it seemed more out of frustration and impatience. I was so vulnerable and not well at all, I became rather submissive and just accepted the fact that I was possibly a bit stupid or maybe too impure to understand it. I was eventually invited to Oxford and during lunch time, when I had not realised I was not to sit on the same table as the men, I just burst into tears and could not stop crying. This was ignored by everyone. I was suffering from depression at this stage and it seemed that the bubble was bursting. All the positive stuff, i.e being a soul, connecting with God, living a simple and healthy life, sending out good vibrations etc etc, seemed to now be going down a completely new road, where I was told that i was a special person, an angel and that the Destruction of the world was very soon.

Considering I had just had a breakdown and was finding it difficult enough to hold on to reality anyway, and needed to feel positive about the future and anchor myself to something that would at the very least, make it worthwhile getting out of bed, this new knowledge was actually devastating and I can remember crying a lot during that time and feeling very scared. I was also very lonely at this point and wanted to make friends, but I found that any interaction with a fellow 'enquirer' was discouraged and so some of us would meet up in secret.

One lady in particular I really liked and suggested we meet up one day - afterwards 'Jane' told me that it was not a good decision to meet up with her because she was at a different stage in the 'knowledge' and anything I had to tell her could be damaging. I felt hurt because all I had wanted was a bit of company and I was beginning to ask myself if these people were trying to take over my life - now my choice of friends within the BK was being policed. I also found out at this time that a another person who came to the centre had tried to make contact with me but had been warned off and told 'leave Sarah to us.' One person was brave enough to breach the divide and we met for a coffee, constantly looking over our shoulders to check we were not being watched, and this person begged me not to tell anyone at the centre that we had met up.

For the first time in my journey I had to really ask myself if this was as good for me as I had hoped it would be. I was now facing the possibility of divorce, lonliness and homelessness since I could not afford to keep both my house and flat on. All this sacrifice to be closer to God? Did he really expect all that from me?

Gradually me and my husband started communicating, more openly and honestly than before and I couold sense that he really did want to understand the spiritual need in me. I knew that what I had with him was something I did not wish to give up. I was advised that it is better to serve all of humanity than one other person. I have an issue with that. Of course attachment, born our of insecurity, is not good but if every human being felt loved by one other human being, I am sure that would change the world.

Anyway because I did not want to upset Mike, Jane and Sue and because I still genuinely believed most of the teachings and saw great benefit from the meditation and much of the lifestyle changes etc. I decided to just lead a double life whereby the imminent reconciliation with my husband was kept quiet. I found this almost impossible because it appeared that Mike particularly had another path laid out for me and increasingly suggested I became a BK teacher. I also was aware at this time how two newcomers in particular were being treated in a way that I can only describe as bullying.

Robert, who had only just started coming to the Murlis, was asking very genuine questions and showing respect in asking them. He was undermined and patronised, and even though he appeared to be giving 100%, it never seemed to be enough for them. Eventually Mike and Robert had a huge argument and Robert walked out nearly in tears. I stayed behind determined to phone him later that evening to see if he was OK and to reassure him that I was having a change of heart anyway.

I was shocked the way Mike started speaking about Robert behind his back and I wondered if these people were as 'pure' and as 'good' as they led me to believe. NO way would God have treated another person like that. I don't expect these people to be God, but I don't expect them so easily to bully, and ridicule either. Suffice to say, I left the flat just after Christmas and just feel traumatised by the experience.

I am so confused. On the one hand I miss the sense of community, a space to go and meditate, the amazing conversations we had and the hope that we all felt. I do not miss the horrible cloud that would hang over my head when I tried to imagine the future, and I don't miss the anger I sometimes felt each morning when I heard the Murli and doubted that this was the same God as the one I was increasingly connecting with in my meditation.

This leaves me rather lost however. If I accept that I am a soul and that it is God I am connecting with, then how can I just pick and choose what bit I believe and what bit I do not believe. If I am impure then surely I have to accept that I won't be as close to God as I want to be and that I am destined to go round and round every 5000 years exactly as I am, i.e just missing the Confluence Age! And yet I feel so relieved that I can connect with God without feeling somehow unworthy, that I can touch my husband without feeling dirty, or look at myself in the mirror without feeling ashamed.

I don't miss that horrible feeling of isolation either, that somehow I am different from everyone else and that it is totally acceptable to deal with another person with a complete lack of compassion simply because they are too impure or because they are Iron Age souls and their Karmic account is pretty bad. I can question whatever I am asked in a relaxed way with people and not feel like a naughty school child. Also I don't have to chart every hour of the day whether or not I am serving enough or giving enough.

I think the only option is probably to drift back to Buddhism, simply enjoy the practice of it and see how it informs my life and my relationships. I also think that I must hold on to seeing myself as a soul and connecting with God. I did receive drishti from Dadi Janki (sorry about spellings by the way!) and it was a powerful experience, so all this contradiction in my experience does confuse me a bit. Anyway, sorry to take this up. Any advice, help, would be good.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by shivshankar » 25 Feb 2008

Om Shanti.

God's family had became a sect. There is no difference from Bhakti marg now. But as you know there is no Bhakti in the Golden Age. So there will be no Bhakti in My family also. So, I am starting the role of Rudra now. :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
sarah wrote:Any advice, help, would be good.
I suggest you to wait about two weeks, because a lot of changings are to be done in the BKWSU. After that you will see another view and will have an opportunity to solve your doubts.

ShivShankar

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 25 Feb 2008

Shivshankar, now I KNOW I have a lower consciousness - what changes? Please explain ... with guideposts and instructions. Are you suggesting I return to the BKs?

Thanks

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by pilatus » 25 Feb 2008

Hello Sarah,

Like you I became involved with the BK around the time of my mid-life crisis. You will find many references elsewhere on this forum where the BK are less than helpful and sometimes downright harmful to people who are suffering from breakdown/depression etc. This is because they are not professionals and many of them have their own agendas rather than your interests at heart.

So please don't feel alone. What many other contributors have also said on the forum is that it is possible to take the positives from your BK experience and integrate it with other flavours of spirituality. This takes some time, especially when you've had a tough time but have faith that it will come. With all due respect to Shivshankar his posts are sometimes a bit hard to grasp, so don't take a lack of comprehension as a reinforcement of your "impurity".

It sounds to me as though you and your husband are giving yourselves and each other a good chance to make things work, so I'd encourage you to take/keep some distance from the BK while that process is going on. Due to their teachings they have a very narrow view of fulfilling, loving relationships.

Very best wishes to you and yours...

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 25 Feb 2008

Pilatus, thank you so much. Shivshankar is obviously a very warm and sincere soul but I was beginning to wonder if I had come to the wrong website and got a bit out of my depth! I want direct and honest and authentic these days. I came so close to being what i can only describe as a bit of a slave of the particular centre I got involved with that I just want to call a spade a spade. My main problem is that I do feel very lonely now and although I love my family and friends, it is the company of 'spiritual' and like minded individuals that I really crave. The funny thing is, my meditation practice seems to be better since I stopped listening to the Murlis. I still feel waves of peace and I also feel a connection with God. When I suggested that to one of the members of the centre I used to go to, she just stopped all email contact with me after that! I really appreciate your reply.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by shivshankar » 25 Feb 2008

sarah wrote:Are you suggesting I return to the BKs?
It is up to you. I am only claiming, that BKWSU will have a lot of changes in two weeks after that friday. There will be a new face and some new knowledge in their ideology.

However, the main is meditation and purity. You can become pure only by receiving energy from God. It is not nessesary to visit center now. It is nesessary to have strong connection with God. Also you can find out many interesting information about BKWSU here. Your picture of that organization will become more complete, because as you had noticed by youreself, there are not only good things there now.

With best wishes, ShivShankar.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 25 Feb 2008

Om Shanti ShivShankar :)

I will watch over the next few weeks with interest.

Sarah

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Post by tete » 25 Feb 2008

Dear Sarah,

You have come to the right site (ex-BK run).:-) The one thing that is unique here is that there are many that are reforming BKs, ex-BKs and PBKs and yet others beyond that. You may find Sanvean's post relevant to your current situation:
search for sanvean How to be the God's beloved and have love for other person? Sanvean speaks of similar feelings you expressed in regards to your spouse:Infogami.com

You are not alone, although each journey in is unique we share many of the common stumbling blocks and find that the fellowship that you crave will be filled with time. That is the one thing my family member missed the most and I did not understand that until I came here. As others have said it will take time and you too will begin your journey of healing, finding the love aspect without guilt and taking hold of your life again.

You may also find some very helpful insights in the classic posts on this website and here:
Infogami.com's Classic_Posts Classic Posts

I would ask for those that are active BKs to identify yourselves so that Sarah knows from what perspective you are coming from. Sarah, I am not an ex-BK, I am a family member of an ex-BK and can more likely identify with your husband as to the experience/aspect of your journey. I have found this site very helpful and it has offered me support and friendship.


Many of the members have spent countless hours archiving posts (and information) so that other may find their way and in the hopes of offering community when those that leave find themselves without any support system. Its a tough journey but know that you have come to the right place, where you will find others that have gone through the process of leaving and that will share with you their experience. We are like small children who dust themselves off, having fallen down and find the other children with their hands extended ready to help us up.

Regards,
Tete

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by pilatus » 25 Feb 2008

Hello again Sarah,

I am glad that you're still able to experience a peacful and loving connection with God. And I am not surprised that your BKs did not want to hear about it being better outside Murli class, since for most BKs the Murli is spoken by God. However, many western-bodied souls find the Murli hard going, whereas Indian-bodied souls seem to enjoy the repetition and illustrative "tall stories".

I can understand that you're missing your more "spiritual friends" - it can be very fulfilling especially if you've not had it before. If you give yourself time, I am sure that you'll be able to have "your cake and eat it" or from your other post "not throw the baby out with the bath water". There are many spiritual people out there (including lots on this forum - although It's not quite the same as face-to-face). You could maybe start with your Buddhist meditation group. I'd also suggest trying to see the spiritual side of your other half. I was quite lucky - mine was already more spiritually aware.

Lots of best wishes,

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 25 Feb 2008

Tete and Pilatus, thanks for your support. Tete, I will certainly click on those links you included in your post and hopefully get some more support. Despite my expressed doubts I still feel vulnerable and undecided, but I think I will keeping returning to this site. Pilatus, that is so funny- find the spiritual side of my husband. He would laugh at that. Seriously, in spite of the fact that I do love him, he genuinely believes that with football, a pint and a pie is the ultimate in meaning and contentment!

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Feb 2008

Very moving post sarah. I really feel for you. Thank you very much for joining the forum and adding your witness. I think you capture very well not just the internal atmosphere within the BKWSU but also the very, very common experiences arising from it. You could also look out for Di's posts on this forum.

Your intuition are correct and part of the process of the BKWSU is to separate you from them, literally to divide and rule you, yourself, internally. Once split and weakened it then lays the types of subtle and not so subtle but persistent pressures that you talk about. You also highlight very clearly the dangerous of allow generally untrained and unaccountable individuals free to dabble with other people's souls as the final arbitrators of what God means, e.g. your experiences with the local teachers.

Not it is not "God" that is speaking, it is Lekhraj Kripalani and, most likely, some spirit/channelled entity who we are all unclear about as yet. And only time will tell. What we are clear about is that the Brahma Kumaris are re-editing those messages to cover up for when it got its predictions wrong etc.

What is its agenda? Who knows right now ... power, influence and utter mind control seem to be the major themes. Don't be duped by the psychicism of it all. Don't give over your rational powers to the inbetween men and women. Look at the concrete evidence ... starting with the money trail. Which way is it all going ...? 99% in only one way.

I would really appreciate to hear your experiences of the way the BKWSU is now. I was there in the early day of the west when it was at least honest to what it really was. Now all I see is layers and layers of deceit about who they are and what they are up to. Sure, you can have a few wonderful psychic experiences for the first few months ... then it tails off. But by then you are hooked. Then you face years of attempting to prop it all back up with efforts and excuse, the only times you get similar highs is when you are initiating others into a relationship with the channelled entity.

Right now ... until I see concrete evidence to prove otherwise ... I think it is all spooky mind control. Oh, and by the way, God speaks through Shivshankar personally too. :shock:

More later.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by bkti-pit » 26 Feb 2008

Welcome to the Forum Sarah and thanks for sharing your experience. I myself joined the Forum last summer and it has been a very positive experience for me. I hope you will enjoy it too.

I have been an active BK for over 20 years and am now a full time volunteer living in one of the main Centers in my region. I have witnessed and experienced too many times myself the kind of pathological behaviors that you describe. It certainly is not spiritual nor Godly and your decision of stepping out seems to be an healthy one.

Being independent minded and having a good common sense, as well as having some good like minded BK friends, saved me from being damaged too much. I also remember a couple of instances where my region's Senior's personal advice has been supportive.

My decision so far has been to keep my commitment as a BK despite what I see as being the wrong doings of my fellow BKs. I think that it is still the best I can do with my life at this point, trying to be a positive influence and sow seeds of benevolence and truth in a world of lies, selfishness and arrogance.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Feb 2008

bkti-pit wrote:I think that it is still the best I can do with my life at this point, trying to be a positive influence and sow seeds of benevolence and truth in a world of lies, selfishness and arrogance.
.. and if one can stick to just that it has to be a better thing. Even the BKWSU needs serving.

Its a funny thing but, perhaps, those that think they are teacher-servers within the BKs might actually be the one's that need teaching and serving from rational, independent individuals within and without the organization.

That would seem to me the role that Western BKs have largely play to the Brahma Kumaris. Your honesty and lack of guile is admirable bkti-pit.

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by sarah » 26 Feb 2008

ex-l wrote:Not it is not "God" that is speaking, it is Lekhraj Kripalani and, most likely, some spirit/channelled entity who we are all unclear about as yet. And only time will tell. What we are clear about is that the Brahma Kumaris are re-editing those messages to cover up for when it got its predictions wrong etc..
This is fundamental to my doubts :doubt:. Do any others feel this way? In spite of the problems I have had with certain characters within the BK, if I really did believe that this was the word of God, well, I would be willing to overcome all my reservations and doubts. But, alas, I just do not. I am in total agreement with ex-l on this one. Would be good to hear what others think.

Bkti-pit - I wish I had met you at one of my centres. You seem like a peaceful soul willing to see both sides and empathize. I wish all BKs were like that. :wink:

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Re: Feeling a bit lost

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Feb 2008

I will let other speak on this topic ... but Andrey made a fair comment once, along the lines of; "even if it was not 'God' he would follow just because it was so impressive". I think this is fair and it might be a face saving position the Brahmakumaris should adopt just in case the present round of predictions fail ... again. Re-market the Shiva soul not as "God" but some higher being.

Equally, Lekhraj Kripalani could have been channelling his 'higher self' or overshadowed by the mysterious Bengali Sadhu he was meant to have been transformed or initiated by in Calcutta. (The PBKs have their own interpretation of that and point to an earlier medium within the BK community). Interestingly, the only independent mention of Lekhraj Kriapalani as an initiate I have seen is from Benjamin Creme and the Maitreya's lot, see; here.

For me, the important thing is to put this within the context of the early history, now we have a door into understanding it. Then to look at the manner in which the Seniors handled this matters. I mean, for 20 years to have followed a man as God ... then to have re-written it all, invented a new God Shiva and covered it all up!!! No wonder Janki wanted to bring pictures of Lekhraj Kirpalani to the West with her. Does an utterly and institutionally dishonest leadership stand to you as evidence of a God?

My lasting impression, shared by others, is that Lekhraj Kirpalani really did not know what was going on and was just dealing with his own stuff. Yes, something happened. I even accept that he probably does comes back in Gulzar's body. Until we have the clarified history and a leadership that is open, honest and accountable ... it difficult to know what the god of the BKs really is. In the meanwhile, I think the organization has become "luciferic" in nature, or at least heavily colored by "luciferic" influences. (I am using that word in an accurate and specific manner and not as a loony Bible basher).

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