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Post by proy » 23 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:Proy, I find that post very interesting and, if true, alarming.
If you doubt the truth of these orchestrated cover ups and "Wiki-Wars" then check behind the scenes of the Wikipedia yourself. This goes way back, to the days of the old ex-BK-chat forum. I believe Waddy and her cronies in Florida were at it then. The link to this forum was deleted many times by BK wreckers, then re-established by contributors to this forum. There are many posts about the Wiki on the forum. There is definitely cover up and whitewash going on. What other explanation but fear of the truth can there be?
You tell me if you can think of another reason for deleting links to this forum.

Try these links which appear in my earlier post in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... ma_Kumaris

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... s/Evidence

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Post by proy » 23 Jan 2007

Hi Abrahma Kumar,

When you have looked at the other postings on this site about the wikipedia (do a search for wikipedia) e.g. Mr Green said in Commonroom thread on Wiki
Mr Green wrote:There is right now an on going campaign by the BKs to whitewash an article written about them on Wikipedia, they are trying to rewrite an article that many BKs and ex-BKs have contributed to in an attempt to define the BKs and their history ... It is incredible what these people are heading, such violence :!: ... If they really believe in karma I don't know, I am wondering if they ever really hold any of the things they tell the public about themselves dear

... really, I am shocked ...
You might be interested to look at these wiki entries also; See below as Bksimonb even tried to remove the new French article placed by another within the cult pages. You will see he is listed by wiki as a "vandal".

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Post by bansy » 23 Jan 2007

It's an interesting thought that a BK on an open wikipedia should delete the link to a website-forum where his or her fellow BKs are currently actively participating in. Rather a lack of respect for his or her own family members. I just wonder how other BKs in this forum feel about this ?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 23 Jan 2007

Hi all, my post did not indicate doubt it in the sense that I think that the BK's are being falsely accused but my sanskaras are such that I try to keep channels of communication open at all times - even when I am being provocative. I have seen the 'wiki discussion and so the evidence is clear for all to see. Thanks for the additional links and I will visit them as time permits.

My response was an anguished appeal in case anyone within the BKWSU structure would care to take it's teachings to heart and realise that such actions ARE damaging not only to itself as an institution but to those who enter it's doors on a regular basis. But maybe there is an agenda that the masses within the rank and file of the organisation are unaware of.

Personally I would not have known any of this had I not happened across the BrahmaKumaris.Info site 'accidentally' (some accident!). However that state of blissful ignorance seems not to be part of my 'fortune'. But I can not see the sense or reason in those actions as they fly in the face of everything the BKWSU professes to be in the public arena.

It is daft because they can's stop us from typing these words and just as I came across this site so too can anyone in the world. What then? I was not looking for what they may regard as anti-BKWSU propaganda when I clicked on the wiki link.

Thanks again to everyone and bansy's question is very relevant.

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Luis Alberto Riveros

Post by proy » 23 Jan 2007

This is from the Wikipedia User Talk
User talk:Searchin man
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Hi.

I am loking at the University of South Florida "STANDARDS FOR DISCIPLINARY ACTION" and "Computer & Network Access Agreement", Account Certification Statement points. Specifically;

* 4. Use computing resources for private profit, or for promoting a religious or political group.
* 6. Using facilities, including printers, for junk mail, mass mailing, or non-course-related work etc


Look, the bottomline is substantiate your allegations. You cannot. And so the personal attacks are going to be remove again. See, Discussion History.

For the record, Luis Alberto Riveros; M.Ed, MS, MCSE is lying in those unsubstantiated allegations. He did not send a private email, he posted it all maliciously on a public forum - which is where I read it and presumably there is a cached copy. Maliciousness is not a divine or peaceful virtue, so where is his integrity? If I was him, I would be running back to Waddy to take Shrimat on all this double quick.

The pair of you have a choice. Play by the Wiki rules and everything goes nicely. Break the rules or be silly attempting your BK whitewash and I won't bother putting in a complaint to the Wiki admins but I will put a complaint into his faculty at the University of South Florida, College of Visual & Performing Arts for his misuse of the institution's Information Technology in line with the agreement above quoting IP addresses to promote the secretive Doomsday, End of the World, Nuclear Holocaust Cult that he is a recruiter for and making personal attacks to defend. As far as I understand, he was invited to continue posting on the forum but did not take up the offer.

I am absolutely sure, given the current environment within America, a cult member who writes on a number of different webforums that, "the bombs have been created and are going to be used" ( revealing said .edu IP address) and believes that God Shiva is inspiring the "science proud Yadavas" to make bombs to destroy the world will alert the highest authorities. Unfortunately, we have the Murlis and we have the inhouse teaching aids and we know it all.

Now, if I were you, I would be a lot more concerned about;

* why the BKWSU were at pains to cover up the Child Sex Abuse ring operating in at least two of Indian centers, including the headquarters of Madhuban, that sexually abused numerous young girls?
* why the pedophiles that committed these crimes were not reported to the police and brought to justice as, say, the Roman Catholic has finally starting to do?
* why they were allowed to remain in their positions for several years despite the problems being known?
* why they attempt to re-write the BKWSU sex abuse incident as a mere allegation rather than an actual incident and blame it on the child?
* why the BKWSU took great pains at a teachers training session in the Oxford Global Retreat Centre to attempt to cover up any connection between child sex abuse and the BKWSU - WITHOUT INFORMING THE BKWSU Raja Yoga TEACHERS THAT SEXUAL ABUSE HAD ACTUALLY TAKEN PLACE?

If you want citations, we can given. The BKWSU even wrote this down on the handouts.


Funny enough, I am reading the ad in " New Times Naturally" and it seems like Luis is a bit of a name and fame BK. I don't see any mention of Raja Yoga or the BKs. But that is typical of them these days;

"Postive Thinking. Luis Riveros Improve your life and change the way you feel. Wed Sept 13, 7-8.30 pm, FREE 7520 W Waters, Ave Ste 5 Tampa, Reserv 813-334-7424".

My friend, I do not think that you know what you are getting into. 195.82.106.244 01:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

And you know what Bud, I am 100% sure you all you have to do is have a quiet word with your admin sockpuppet and the whole world could see the awful full extent of Ayvakt7's maliciousness. I'd be interested that's for sure, as from the dialogue that's somehow survived your pruning, he is as courteous as you are plainly not.

searchin man 23:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Right. And Luis Riveros believes and teaches - which is what the BKWSU behind the facade is really all about - that;

* dinosaurs lived 2,500 years ago,
* that evolution is a constantly repeating and identical 5,000 year cycle (which God used to teach it was going to be all over in 1975/76)
* in less than 30 years we will be making babies without making love indeed that baby Krishna must be on his way any day now
* that 6 Billion are going to die during a Nuclear Holocaust to make way for their heaven on earth (although God used to teach there were only 5 Billion human souls)
* God possesses a little old Indian lady to meet his superior Brahmin caste only,
* everyone else on the planet are Shudras.

Fine. Keep it coming. These beliefs are on a par with the Heaven's Gate cult but - who knows - they may be true. The problem I have is that the multinational, UN associated BKWSU is hiding these beliefs behind a veneer of "Positive Thinking", "Self Management" and "Values" classes designed to draw people in. Just like the ones Luis teaches.

Now, tell me if I am wrong in any of these assertions. Do you need the BKWSU citations - oh, sorry, I have already given you them - or are we just ignoring the facts and focusing on the personal attacks instead?

So where do you fit in? Are you a BK Brahmin or a just a Shudra contact soul that he uses to do his dirty work? Or his devotee for the next Copper Age? Has he got you marked as "Baba's child" and for becoming a Brahmin in the future or just a Bhagat? Is he just "serving" you now until the day you become a "serviceable soul" too?

Ask him. If you don't know it, that is how these people are think.

195.82.106.244 13:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Bud, I've a pretty good handle on where your comin from, just looking at some of your performances on your own forum. When I've time I'll post back here, give you a better idea of where I am at.

searchin man 23:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I had another question for you and BK Luis.

Baba says, the Confluence Age is 100 years long. And the BKWSU is celebrating its 70th Anniversary this year.
He also says that Krishna and Radhe will be crowned Narayan and Lakshmi when they are 30 or 35 years old. And that Krishna will be conceived, virgin birth style, by the power of Raja Yoga. If Luis has been in Gyan anytime he will be able to confirm it.

So would means that somewhere BKs must be giving virgin birth to baby Krishna, Radhe and a whole load of Golden Aged deities, this year even ... so how and where is it happening? [And if you promise to come up with an answer, I will skip asking about why Baba used to say the Confluence Age was 40 years and the End of the World was in 1976 ]. If you need the citations, you know where to get them?

195.82.106.244 01:14, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

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Post by abrahma kumar » 23 Jan 2007

How come no-one has published an insider view of the BKWSU for the world to see?

Aren't any publisher's interested?

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A Critique of BKWSU

Post by proy » 23 Jan 2007

A Critique of BKWSU ( Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University) PhilosophyI would like to bring this article to the attention of all newcomers to this forum.

It can be accessed from the ex-BK resources page of the main web site under BK critique. I recommend it especially as it was one of the first things I read as a former BK that really impressed me and made me think.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 23 Jan 2007

Thanks proy. As drama would have it I have also read that one and yes it is quite informative. I also found a link in which someone was discussing how to probe the 'deep web' in order to access information that may be 'hidden' deliberately. I think that illumation of the BKWSU was the trigger to that article.

Do you notice how sometimes you can go around in circles when looking for something on the net? And that nowadays information on the BKWSU is less than useless for anyone wanting to form an objective opinion. I suppose that can be one of the ill' s of the web. A lot that is on it can be so incestuous and after a while you realise that what you are reading is what someone wants you to read - quite frustrating.

In my mind an idea is crystallising about the type of window onto the BKWSU I would like to read and since coming to this site the urge to attempt to write that - even if for my own self's sake - has grown stronger and stronger. Who knows ... ;) It if ever does come about then be sure that mention of this site will feature somewhere ;) as I cannot commend this site highly enough but dare I mention it in class ;( youcan guess that no is the answer. BTW i asked one of the BKs a question about their participation on this site so i will see what comes of it ...

In the short time I have been posting I feel as if i have grown up so much and have gained so much more objectivity. Am also much more alive to the potential of this life that I have lived and the possible role that can be played in the drama. I realise too that I am one of life's late developers so there is a feeling to move quickly. As I said elsewhere this is all a work-in-progress so who knows where it will lead ...

I guess that many of us that post here 'know' each other only through our posts but there is no doubt that this site is a community. Thanks to you all and keep up the good work.

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Post by proy » 23 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:I also found a link in which someone was discussing how to probe the 'deep web' in order to access information that may be 'hidden' deliberately.
I would like to know more about that please?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 24 Jan 2007

Hi Proy, Someone on the www disabled the connection to the page!

The information was contained in a lengthy e:mail correspondence exchange - posted on the www as a page in its own right - between an 'expert' on web searching and someone who had asked specifically about getting beyond the stuff on the www that someone wants you to read so that you can see what they might want hidden.

I hope that i saved that information somewhere otherwise I might have to learn how to do that myself ;) One of the key points i remembered noting was the concept of the "deep web". The BKWSU was the topic of conversation. Maybe the more i re-visualise the information the closer I will get to re-locating it ;)

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Post by bert » 24 Jan 2007

proy wrote:If you doubt the truth of these orchestrated cover ups and "Wiki-Wars" then check behind the scenes of the Wikipedia yourself.
hmm ... a war alright, but from what i can see, it looks like bkSimonb et al have pretty much won over the wiki administrators.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 24 Jan 2007

Not seen the conclusion of that yet but if they have won over the Wiki administrators 'good' for them but the downside is that it will only serve to open the minds of others to wonder about control freakery. Or is it that they don't care? Is the BKWSU morphing into something that it's older members would not recognise? I have no ill-feelings towards the institution but some things are just not on. Even a novice like me has observed how one can hardly search the net these days without encountering the BKWSU 'corporate speak' it all seems so planted.

I am still very much open-minded about the institution but stuff like this is very off-putting.

Just went to Wiki and saw the reason for your remarks bert. While no-one - except for God I suppose - ought to care too much for how this tiny dot feels about the situation it really is beyond words. And to imagine that so many BKs are in total ignorance of all of this.

Observing these tendencies it seems little wonder why some of the students find issues with some of the centre-in-charges for it seems like they are moulded in the very image of these organisational tendencies. Luckily, unworthy as I am, there is no chance for me to rise to such a vaunted status.

NO, I would want anyone to come to conclusions about anything based on a Wiki article but I have used Wiki for non-BK related research for sometime now, so getting this behind the scene look at things is a real eye-opener. Heaven help us all.

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War?

Post by proy » 30 Jan 2007

bert wrote:hmm ... a war alright, but from what I can see, it looks like bkSimonb et al have pretty much won over the wiki administrators.
The likes of "bkSimonb" et al only make the BKWSU look bad with their gangster style antics.

What you have seen is only a minor skirmish. The "troops" on the side of the truth are formidable. Take my word for it. I would not like to try to fight them. It is not me, as some people think, but I know their character will not be diminished by a minor defeat. Anyway, defeat is victory in this "war" because every time the Florida wreckers win a point they show the world that they are not spiritual. In the USA they are not allowed to call themselves a university because they do not issue any degrees or diplomas. I think they will have to stop calling them selves spiritual if they go on with these nasty tactics to suppress the true nature of who they are. They are like Stalin trying to silence their critics. Except they believe God is guiding them. They should read their own Murlis. Their God tells them specifically not to behave in the way they are doing.

“All those who are heads, those in-charges - there are many in Shantivan, Gyaan sarovar and Pandav Bhavan, everywhere. Give a list of the names of those who are in-charge to BapDada. BapDada will take an account from them. And the teachers who are in-charge - whether of a centre or zone - will will have a gathering of them one day. Baba will ask for all the accounts, will He not ? This is because the sound of a lot of sorrow and peacelessness reaches BapDada. Sounds of distress come to BapDada. Can you people not hear it ? There would be your devotees too, would there not ? So can you, the specially beloved deities, not hear the call of the devotees ? Can the teachers hear the sound of the devotees? Achcha.”

So the BKWSU becomes the BKWSO becomes the BKWO.

S for spiritual? Come on? Read the Wiki arbitration and see how spiritual these thugs are.

We know what they have to hide, and their reaction is becoming more fierce as they see the truth coming out at last.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 01 Feb 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:Hi Proy, Someone on the www disabled the connection to the page!

The information was contained in a lengthy e:mail correspondence exchange - posted on the www as a page in its own right - between an 'expert' on web searching and someone who had asked specifically about getting beyond the stuff on the www that someone wants you to read so that you can see what they might want hidden.

I hope that I saved that information somewhere otherwise I might have to learn how to do that myself ;) One of the key points I remembered noting was the concept of the "deep web". The BKWSU was the topic of conversation. Maybe the more I re-visualise the information the closer I will get to re-locating it ;)
Further to that exchange of posts would anyone care to offer any ideas about why a google editor would want to 'fix it' so that the aswer to the following question about the BKWSU would be rendered inaccessable (at least via google)? I have included the salient details from questioner's mail only.
... done a Google which produced about 1,980 hits, mostly PR stuff
from what I've gleaned. Is it possible to get behind the blurbs? And, if so, please show me how. No, I don't plan to join
Just want to add that the answer 'had' been followed by the standard: Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

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Re: War?

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Feb 2007

proy wrote:The likes of "bkSimonb" et al only make the BKWSU look bad with their gangster style antics.
There is a BK Powerpoint document "Global IT team.ppt" in the BK folder of the Uploads section that lists one BK "Simon Blandford" as being in charge of the BKWSU's servers. It has to be the same person.

What I wonder is how the Wiki admins can go along with what is happening when it is clear that all the BK folk are not editing one single other article other than their own. Probably the BKWSU organization is working on the Wikipedia bosses via mail and white saris bearing gifts. Expect to see them invited to Madhuban for the next big VIP programme ... or should I not give the BKs ideas!?!

Just as an example of the reality distortion field going on, here, one of the BK supporters wrote this to an admin under the title of "BKWSU nonsense";
Searchin man wrote:Don't worry MER-C, Celibacy as with most every other BK 'principle', as far as I can make out is a recommendation rather than a pre-requisite. Just another case of 244 getting the wrong end of the stick again. [[User:Searchin man|searchin man]] 00:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:shock: What do you reckon? Do you think he might have been sleeping through Murli or Dadi's classes?

There was a lengthy piece on the BKWSU in Googleanswers, here; Google Dead link which has been removed. Apparently the BKWSU wrote a letter to Google with the usual UN tosh and a veiled legal threat, and it was "dissappeared". However, the funny thing is, it is still in their cache, below; BKWSU Google Answers. So media re-writes do not work on the internet. Folks can also check the Way Back Machine to check on previous revisions of articles and website.

An Indian ex-BK pointed out that the BKs have been working the media to supress negative press for years.

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