Where are you all going???

newlife
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Where are you all going???

Post by newlife » 10 Jul 2008

After we had the Murli in our centre on the morning of the 9th, we had a little chit chat amongst ourselves and I said, “its amazing that we didn’t have an ounce of knowledge before we came to Baba and yet when we do have it we become like know it alls as if we are suddenly masters of knowledge”, and it prompted me to write this to you all.

This is not toward those people who are friends and family but its to those had a realisation and that now believe themselves to have been duped or tricked and claim the hierarchy is so destructive and the organisation doesn’t care about anyone. What I don’t understand is that many of the people on here received a lot of love to begin with when they first came to Baba or they were sustained by the love of others who had changed so much because of the love from Baba. I mean to say for those of you who stayed and went, there must have been a lot of love or something special apart from fear that Baba your spiritual Dad gave you, for you all to have belonged to Baba for whatever period you did.

I know everyone can give reasons why they went away but the closeness that you had at one time seems to have been forgotten and only things of anger or bitterness now stoke the flame. You guys that belonged to Baba are not weak minded, you surely know that you’ve just lost your peace because a negative sanskar of intolerance or an outside desire won you over and destroyed your internal happiness. And whats more you know that you can colour the vision of those that have never experienced the wonder of Baba because they will easily see only the negatives like being manipulated by the sun newspapers

It doesn’t matter what the BKWSU do or say to appease, it might effect your view a little but anger bitterness revenge will always win. it’s the internal negatives we should all deal with not the external. Look! If the BKs give Murlis out on the www, although some may take benefit and feel it is their right, look how many people are just waiting for the opportunity to take selective snippets and try to colour other peoples vision the same as their own. When lord Buddha was asked the same question by 3 different students he gave 3 different answers because each one had different coloured spectacles on ... So really I don’t understand where your all going with this stuff

When I came to Baba, the sister in charge had a very bad reputation of manipulating others and gave so much sorrow. And what was worse her lokik husband, also BK, backed her up in everything. They gave others a lot of sorrow through their classes and chased a lot of people away from Baba. When I said anything I was told I had to change more. So I thought Yeah Baba would like that also and whats more I will not be at loss if I just aim to come closer to Baba. so change I did and I won the hearts of my instrument teachers. The others just came and went. I knew that if I turn away from anyone, one day I will turn away from Baba, because its my habit to run away or give up.

Its not a small thing because it meant when I was bubbling inside with anger and hatred I bit the bullet and made every effort to be closer to Baba and practised removing them from my mind, not speaking even 1 word of retaliation. If I didn’t drive them here there and everywhere they would give classes on me in front of others. If I said to them about disservice to others I was told to change more. I did as I was told and bowed down. I took the respect from Baba and turned away from the negatives outside. My love for and from Baba was immense at times. I tolerated, merged and it came easier for me to do this week by week. I kept looking for more depth in the Murli and ignored others praise.

I opened a centre. My centre of birth had taught me a lot of good and a lot of not so good. The centre that I ran gained a reputation of being extremely loving and many wanted to leave other centres to come to us. Then I relaxed on my study, fell for another bk left Baba became an alcoholic, a 60 a day smoker, a heavy gambler in a broken marriage (not the BK I went away with) .

It was in may 2007 that I e mailed Jayanti saying, I even find it hard to breath. She lovingly asked me to come to see Dadi, but I declined until I had got back my self respect ... And so I had the choice of studying that which id got so much from and come closer to Baba or studying what others are doing and spiralling downwards thus making God a dot on the horizon which actually he already was. I studied 9 hours a day for two months. On day one I stopped drinking and gambling and stopped watching tv and by day six I had stopped smoking. My body reacted badly to coming off it all, after all it had been abused for 13 years since falling into lust with the bk sister. I said to Baba I can study but I cant remember you will it happen again for me??? I picked out a Murli from a batch that id got in madhuban 18 years prior and Baba said if you cant remember me as the Father remember me as the teacher.

Within 3 months I returned to the centre I originally started and after 5 months I was giving lectures again ... And so ive seen it from both sides and know that the answer wisdom shouts at us is if something is going to make you as a mind more peaceless turn away and seek to bring out the good inside. don’t blame outside for that which festers inside. The accounts inside can be changed because we are all Babas children but at the end of the day he will say did you really help others move towards me and me alone. Yes everyone has weaknesses but happiness only comes from looking at the one who has no weaknesses. Whether it be our Dadis or the PBKs Dada, it just makes us body conscious and unhappy.

I always knew that the great mahabharat war is inside every human soul. The pandav part of us is the loving sweet kind caring side of us that treats victim and culprit the same ... The kaurav, the suspicious arrogant bitter twisted side of us and the yadav is the heavy intellectual that churns Gyan in a way that makes everyone outside view them in wonder but inside they battle. Swans on the outside, paddling like crazy underneath. Its our choice

Om Shanti
Bk Newlife

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fluffy bunny
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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jul 2008

Keep taking the medication ... we are not "Masters of Knowledge". No BK is. Its a joke.

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john
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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by john » 10 Jul 2008

newlife wrote:I know everyone can give reasons why they went away but the closeness that you had at one time seems to have been forgotten and only things of anger or bitterness now stoke the flame. You guys that belonged to Baba are not weak minded, you surely know that you’ve just lost your peace because a negative sanskar of intolerance or an outside desire won you over and destroyed your internal happiness.
What tosh :D.

I am a very happy person, I have great peace, have no bitterness and don't seek revenge.

All I want is the complete truth about the BKSWU and it's history.

It is my right as it is all those who were spiritually born into the Yagya.

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by paulkershaw » 10 Jul 2008

What an introduction this certainly is. I am glad you've got that off your chest now - do you feel better? Your post is so generalised it's really not nice. A bulldozer has more subtlety and unfortunately seems to do more damage to an already tarnished reputation of the organisation you choose to belong to. I realize that the world is made up of so many different views and people, but I do feel I cannot accept your commanding and insensitive approach. So you have a story to tell? So do we all pal, you're not alone in that. Tell us, let us listen but let me also feel that you're open to listening to what I have to say, if anything. Your approach elicits an unfavourable resposne within me.

A true Master of Knowledge would have no need to post a thread like this and would be more subtle and approachable, having found their truth they would be comfortable and open with it. You show none of these things and this is why you are receiving the unfriendly response that you are. A mirror for your own attitude indeed. I'd warrant that some people on this forum have a deeper sense of closeness, both to each other and within themselves as well as to "God" than they did when they were working with BKWSU teachings, so that says goodbye to that part of this argument/discussion.

Whilst I welcome any person new to this public forum I must say Newlife that even the title of your thread smacks of ego, superiority and exclusivity which in my arena means I don't really want to look towards your viewpoints.

I would say that I truly know where I am going and what I am doing but I would never be able to convince you of this, as your ego already has absorbed the notion that anyone outside of your following needs saving the BK way and that that is the only way. Bully for you though that you have found the BKWSU teachings supportive. Because others have chosen not to, does not meant that they are wrong or unable, they may ahve chosen otherwise so please do not generalise, rather offer 'us' your inter-active opinion and not your ego-speak please.

Please could you post something that would allow an interaction on a deeper more mature level so that we can welcome you in a proper and decent manner. Where do you intend going with this ???

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chai bhai
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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by chai bhai » 10 Jul 2008

Very beautifully said I thought, newlife. Heartfelt and honest. Thank you for sharing your story.

chai

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by tom » 10 Jul 2008

newlife wrote:I know everyone can give reasons why they went away but the closeness that you had at one time seems to have been forgotten and only things of anger or bitterness now stoke the flame. You guys that belonged to Baba are not weak minded, you surely know that you’ve just lost your peace because a negative sanskar of intolerance or an outside desire won you over and destroyed your internal happiness.
Hi, newlife,

It is wrong to project your experiences to others. Everybody has a different background and different reasons of coming to Gyan and leaving it. I myself had all my life long - before Gyan - the feeling of being very close to God. Now looking back to my BK time, I am feeling now God closer again. To let you understand, there are different cases than yours' ,"I wasn't indulged in vices" as I came to Gyan and "I have not indulged in vice and have not gained any bad habits" after leaving BKs. I have not lost my peace and I don't feel any negative sanskars of intolerance or any material or bodily desire, also have no negative memories of any BKs or Seniors personally. By reading the previous posts in this Forum I understand that there are several others like me in this forum, like John :
John wrote:I am a very happy person, I have great peace, have no bitterness and don't seek revenge. All I want is the complete truth about the BKSWU and it's history.
and like paulkershaw:
paulkershaw wrote:I'd warrant that some people on this forum have a deeper sense of closeness, both to themselves and to "God" than they did when they were working with BKWSU teachings
I understand from your experience and from what you tell us that you found the Knowledge and Maryadas useful as a tool for self control to get rid of bad habits which you believed you could not manage alone yourself.The sober situation you are experiencing now is in fact a miracle of your own willpower and your love for God.God's love is not trademarked to BKWSU. There are 6 billion people outside of BKs and most of them experience God's love in their own ways.

I myself believed when I was told that it was God directly telling the Murlis, and watched years long how the Murlis were revised by BK brothers, how our mind, bodily service and wealth was abused and manipulated by the leadership with our silent acceptance and with the support of the entity "BabDada" only for the aim of worldwide expansion of the organization, and understood that surrendering oneself to Yagya does not mean surrendering oneself to God but to human beings with weaknesses and to an entity or to entities which call themselves "BabDada" and/or "Baba", who support all lies, greed, power-lust and tricky ways of manipulation and brainwashing of the Seniors.

BTW the Seniors are very lovefull and warm hearted to the new comers and to the ones who come back again with repentance, this should not deceive you, this will not last for ever. One day, when you have donated all your wealth and lost all your family members and lokik friends and all of your chances in life, you can find yourself left alone in your bed when you are sick and old.

I would advise you to read the previous posts in the Threads of "Ex-BKs Classic Posts", "Abuse and Recovery", "BKWSU History", "Commonroom" and look in the Downloads the historical documents and the yearly official accounts in the BK finances folder. See what has God to do with so much money and political power-like Vatican.

With best wishes

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by arjun » 10 Jul 2008

newlife wrote:If the BKs give Murlis out on the www, although some may take benefit and feel it is their right, look how many people are just waiting for the opportunity to take selective snippets and try to colour other peoples vision the same as their own. When lord Buddha was asked the same question by 3 different students he gave 3 different answers because each one had different coloured spectacles on ... So really I don’t understand where your all going with this stuff
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. As regards your defence of BKWSU not giving out Murlis on the net, I think the reason put forward by you is not tenable. Holding back Murlis just to prevent ex-BKWSU groups or individuals from having a different viewpoint of the Murlis is not a good idea. Do you think the entire BKWSU, leave alone the individual BKs, but even the thousands of BK Centers hold the same views on Murlis? I am sorry. It is a big no.

If BKWSU does not want ex-BKWSU parties to have a different viewpoint of Murlis then first of all it should itself implement the directions given in the Murlis. When they are manipulating the Murlis themselves (they have reduced the size and contents of the Murlis to almost half of the original ones, how can they force people not to have a different viewpoint?

It has been told hundreds of times in the Murlis that we should not have photos of Brahma Baba, but today we have photographs of Brahma Baba and all the Seniors all over the institution. Are they not drawing their own inference (manmat) of the Murlis to defend this gross violation of Shrimat?

It has been told a thousand times not to beg for cash or kind, but it is done in almost each and every center in one form or the other. It has been told not to build properties just for the sake of it, but BKWSU has been acquiring properties at the expense of individual BKs. When they don't have faith in the Godly versions themselves, when they can manipulate Murlis for their own benefit, how can they expect non-BKs or ex-BKs not to have a different viewpoint of the same?

But in the process of preventing ex-BKWSU parties from getting hold of the Murlis, the BKWSU is preventing its own members living in remote corners of the world from getting access to their daily dose of food for the soul. Do you think it is right????

Just as you are asking the ex-BKs where they all are going, they could also ask BKWSU as to where it is going??? In fact there is a thread in the Commonroom Section by that name.
tom wrote:It is wrong to project your experiences to others.Everybody has a different background and different reasons of coming to Gyan and leaving it ... BTW the Seniors are very lovefull and warm hearted to the new comers and to the ones who come back again with repentance, this should not deceive you, this will not last for ever.One day, when you have donated all your wealth and lost all your family members and lokik friends and all of your chances in life, you can find yourself left alone in your bed when you are sick and old.
I agree with tom and feel that ex-BKs have a right to lead their life in their own way and we have to respect their decision.

As regards the latter part of tom's statement above it is true not just of BKWSU but also of other religious/spiritual groups including ex-BKWSU groups.

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by john morgan » 10 Jul 2008

Hello newlife,

Thanks for your story, very interesting.

Perhaps calling the thread "where am I going?" would have elicited a more favourable response here. Playing the part of a reformed sinner must be very colourful for those that attend your classes. Thanks for your unhelpful vision of me (I take what you say personally), there is an element of truth in what you say but I wonder how much of what you say is coloured by you yourself.

You did not say whether the Murlis which you are holding in English, Hindi or another language or if you would like to make them available here. There are some here who would welcome copies.

Kindest regards,

John

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by mr green » 10 Jul 2008

"The kaurav ... the suspicious, arrogant, bitter, twisted side of us."

I've heard that somewhere before.

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by ermine » 11 Jul 2008

Hello my sisters and brothers,

many thanks for your comments.
Tom wrote:I myself believed when I was told that it was God directly telling the Murlis, and watched years long how the Murlis were revised by BK Brothers, how our mind, bodily service and wealth were abused and manipulated by the leadership with our silent acceptance and with the support of the entity "BabDada" only for the aim of worldwide expansion of the organization; and understood that surrendering oneself to Yagya does not mean surrendering oneself to God but to human beings with weaknesses and to an entity or to entities which call themselves "BabDada" and/or "Baba", who support all lies, greed, power-lust and tricky ways of manipulation and brainwashing of the Seniors.
Do you think is it available to not pay attention what SS have been doing and understand clear knowledge? It is obvious think that they (SS) are same humans like others BK and inevitably cannot be completely purified by their high position. BK and SS uniqueness are undeniably exotic, but spiritually exotic - therefore more beneficial than negative because why so many ex-BK are not able to forget previous natural feeling of happiness and pure lifestyle ( even if it finally were painful consequences) because you feel different word and eternity as a soul whether it is true or not (relative).

There is no precise meaning in any words pronounced by somebody (SS or not) - bodily + psychological affection, simplification or impact are inevitable outcome, particularly during this unpredictable time. The major factor is the quantity of weakest people around you in BK. If you can identify them, your became similar to them, it means there is not any spiritual progress just illusion. We should think why we are coming here, for what kind of self egoistic (negative or positive) purposes or for spiritual way of life?

Therefore a truth - who you are and what are you doing here has been gradually disappearing and we left and abandon its pure feeling for "brainwashing of the Seniors"- they are (SS) "brainwashing themselves" or already "brainwashed themselves and your also".

Despite of its negativeness there is something bigger, new and more important that you have to do for yourself to be better than we were before coming into ...

My sincerely apology, om

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by tom » 11 Jul 2008

ermine,

Here you are again. I can not say welcome to you. Except the first paragraph of your post, which you pasted exactly from my post above, without quoting my name, from the rest of your post I could not understand any sentence of yours again. During this time of your absence, you have not made any progress in our English. Being able to write in proper English is the first rule of this Forum. Like a bad joke you are making effort to irritate the forum members, who are politely showing patience for your posts and taking time to decipher what you want to say.

Considering the moment when you first came to this forum and how you continued and when you made a break and how you started again today,gives me now an impression what you are up to. I am thinking now that you are just posting chaotic non-English stuff in order to make fun with us and to insult us.

This disrespectful manner is typical for your "special" group members who came to the forum following each other to support one tricky BK without contributing anything to the forum but only amusing themselves trying with their arrogant and rude style to defame our members and on this way achieving a satisfaction believing that they are wasting our time and energy. Lowest stage of consciousness. Like the gangs of the primary school children.

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jul 2008

mr green wrote:"The kaurav ... the suspicious, arrogant, bitter, twisted side of us." I've heard that somewhere before.
My time is short and so I wanted to throw out a short apology for the brevity of my post above and explain my position further now. I am sorry but I read the post and was left with the impression that it was not at all real. As with mr green, I agree it is the same old line the BKWSU habitually gives out ... that any ex-BK MUST by definition be "bitter, twisted ... etc etc". It is back to that 'tell a lie enough times and it becomes a truth' business all over again. It smells of the usual exaggerated "I was lost but now I am found again" story we were all encouraged trotted out ... and, of course, so do other religions.

From a psychological point of view, any individual swinging from binge drinking and addiction to religions addiction would raise the suspicions of any therapist that the core problems and issues they faced were not being dealt with.

BK-ism offers a very good mask for such individuals to avoid their real issues ... with the additional benefit of an alternative psychological high to replace those stimulae they are giving up. Albeit that it does not last for ever either. In truth, I respect the role demanding or cultic religions play in offering individuals a temporary mask whilst they, hopefully, address those deeper issues. This is a common view within academia and I support such religion's purpose ... with the caveat that those religious should be fully open, honest and accountable whilst taking great care not to financially exploit vulnerable individuals.

Newlife ... I think you might be surprise how many of us find a new life without the need to buy into The End of the World, dancing with Krishna, Golden Palaces and flying machines. As Tom indicates, we grew up and matured. Our world became bigger. We have no need of going back to the kindergarten or 'spiritual' psychiatric hospital that the BK leadership offers.

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Re: WHERE ARE YOU ALL GOING??????

Post by john morgan » 11 Jul 2008

ex-l wrote:We have no need of going back to the kindergarten or 'spiritual' psychiatric hospital that the BK leadership offers.
Yes, it does seem that such is the case but what about other people? On the one hand we tell others that the BK are a cult but on the other hand we provide little in the way of a viable alternative. For those who "need" or find their lives are better with what the BK provide there are classes everyday. Here we criticise and put BK activity under the microscope and the "pain" we deal with is that of leaving the BK.

So the BK get to people first and we deal with the aftermath in those cases where people get hurt. This is a valid activity which has definite limitations.

The BK have their way and to my mind it has value. People are given a discipline that they cannot follow but are then infused with the strength to perform that discipline. Later those same people help others. People that would otherwise not work together for the betterment of the themselves and the world do so. High ideals are defined, striven for and sometimes attained. Its all quite remarkable. On the minus side there is the stuff of this forum and probably much more that we are unaware of. So the BK have their faults and certainly we too have ours. Lots of room for improvement - aren't we all lucky!

There is no need others to do think or feel the same as me, aren't you also fortunate? We all have our own insights and hopefully we make the best of them. Both BK activity and the activity of this forum are valid. Both parties are critical of each other and will probably never agree.

Newlife is probably a flash in the pan, he may never post here again. I would have much preferred a rewording of this thread title. Newlife has a newlife, his way is the only way - to his mind at any rate, and I wish him well. We are all individuals so much so that if many people study the same knowledge and follow the same path their paths are all different.

Those here are students of consciousness, together we can fall in a hole but it is individually that we climb out. Like mice in a box, it sometimes seems that those who are willing to walk over others are able to get out. Perhaps thinking outside the box is a better option. We see the activity of others and either join in or leave it alone. Perhaps now is the time for something completely new - what say you?

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Re: Where are you all going???

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jul 2008

Following on from out Taoist conversations ... I would argue that "the pathless path" is the truth path and not to offer other viable options, but to put them back on their own two feet and switch their brain back on is high service.

NOT to create followers but to help individuals re-find their individuality, has to be higher than "creating subjects" as BapDada always exhorts.

I just argue that what the Brahma Kumaris is teaching is not Raja Yoga and that true spirituality IS stepping out into the void from time to time ... as you yourself have done or been made to do.

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Re: Where are you all going???

Post by mbbhat » 12 Jul 2008

All is going very very well; Because drama pays right fruit. If I am positive, I will get positive. If I am negative, I will get negative, either now, today, tomorrow or in the next birth.

What is happening even in this forum is very very good for good people. I think even for bad people, it will turn into good, because we are discussing about good things- God, Sangamyug(diamond age), heaven, etc. So- butter will definitely emerge one day

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