Don't know if i could help my BK friend

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john
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Post by john » 23 Nov 2006

There is a video, click here, with one such "famous person". One of the "BeeGees" of all people. If a celebrity jumped off a cliff, would you follow them?
Scarey!

All the white clad BKs at the start zombie like, certainly looks like a strange cult from that!

Actually, I thought the BeeGee guy did quite well in his interview.

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Post by invited_to_be_a_bk » 23 Nov 2006

I just cant find one good reason why an organization that uses dirty tactics be tolerated. I did not say that the organization is bad at all, from posts that i read here, it sounds ... that the damage they could give outweighs the goodness that they try to give the world. I am sorry, just my opinion.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Nov 2006

invited_to_be_a_bk wrote:it sounds ... that the damage they could give outweighs the goodness that they try to give the world.
Or to put the similar sentiments into other words, how can you promote Truth by telling untruths? [ ... especially to your own followers].

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Re: Don't know if I could help my BK friend

Post by zhuk » 24 Nov 2006

Thanks for the very interesting posts, invited_to_be_a_b k. All credit to you for your honesty & impartiality ;)

You said your bk friend mentioned this about Madhuban, how he said you should have gone there & experienced it all first before coming to sites like this one or wiki for info ~
invited_to_be_a_bk wrote:
The only trouble with that logic is, you have to already be a card-carrying member of the Orgaanization before you get to go to Mt Abu. So you'd hardly be in the position of impartial observer in that case :)

But then, logic is not necessarily their strong suit, as you might have realised :P

(and BTW, I was also told that "Its not too late for never-ending supersensuous bliss from Baba!!!" as one rather over-enthusiastic disciple constantly kept repeating when I was seen to be wavering from the 'path', after having much trouble post the 7-week course.

And admitting my strong feelings of being brainwashed (which I also honestly shared with them in good faith, in hope of gaining some assistance) were the last straw for this 'non-religion' lol.

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Post by mr green » 24 Nov 2006

Why mince words, brainwashing does exist within the brahma kumaris, or programming if you like. Most of the work is self imposed but you are given the tools and plenty of encouragment to get on with the job.

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Post by primal.logic » 24 Nov 2006

They have a lot of secrecy surrounding their true beliefs. The BKs as a whole go to great lengths to hide what the really believe. You can read some of that material for yourself on this website.

Most BKs will only answer your questions in a secretive cryptic manner until they feel 'your intellect has opened' this means they feel you are ready to understand the bigger picture or the whole truth as they see it.
I agree wholeheartedly. Watching the downloads of JAM in London reminded me of 2 things: what good spin doctors Jayanti and co' are and how profoundly they believe their own stuff - and I don't mean in a faithful way, but in a 'I need to believe this' way.

The 'knowledge' promises heaven and earth, literally. (After we all die of course). But the interim concepts of divine bliss and purity and meaningful peace are promises. And they are promises that dysfunctional, or stressed, or just unhappy souls are more than willing to buy into. But they are only promises.

But the real act of treachery is the guarantee that the BK's give that these promises will be fulfilled. These guarantees are simply spin - spin that passes for truth. Spin that even the 'Seniors' believe. Spin that they MUST believe, because they have invested so much of their lives in, and for whom there is no other option but to continue to believe. Until they achieve the highest stage - dementia (re: Dadi Prakashmani).

Old BKs know from experience that the early days of BK life are very promising - thats the buzz, thats why we buy into it. God has chosen me, he has given me a community, a purpose and a destiny. If you have a prior belief in an eternal soul, if you love the idea of becoming a better (pure) soul, and there is an appearance of method, then yes, of course we will buy into it.

But at the end of the day it is all well spun promises. I am sorry it took me 15 years to work that out. Nearly all of that time as a so called surrendered soul.

I can hear the protests of current BK's - "poor thing (thats me), such is his fortune, the burden of his karma, the influence of Ravan, the pull of Maya ... yada, yada" I know, I used to think like that. I used to sit on the esteemed gaddi in front of the class and spin the same promises, writing off those same poor souls who had left and were damned. But in my heart, like all Bk's, I was waiting for the day the promises would become reality, stressed because purity, peace and bliss were as fleeting as the last meal I had.

Once the honeymoon is over, the battle with Maya begins - the battle between being human and trying to fulfill impossible promises. When I realised that it was only the promises of misguided humans devoted to the 'teaching's of an idealised, romantic notion of an 'elevated' human I left. There was no more effort that could be made - I had started and developed service in an entire country, opened a dozen centres, created 100's of Brahmins, and made every conceivable effort for myself, god and the 'divine family'. It was on that basis that I left without guilt - I know it simply doesn't work.

Watching the Jam clips and seeing Jayanti sparked many memories - for me Jayanti embodies all the unfulfilled promises - everything from the intellect, nothing from the heart. She has always been like that - from the time I became a Bk in 1984 and her mantra was "destruction in 6 months, destruction in 6 months...". No compassion at all - not from the heart - just a rationalized view of what it means and an intellectual attempt to express it (unsuccessfully).

Jayanti always resented a white boy being fully surrendered (I think I was the first, or at least close to it). It is the Brahma 'Kumaris' after all. And not being Indian just added insult to injury. On her first visit to the country I was 'instrument' for she brought an unknown Indian kumari with her. It became evident to many very quickly that it was her plan to replace me with her. But that did not eventuate (the sister concerned had the IQ of a bunny rabbit).

Jayanti then spent the next many years blockading and isolating us, trying to circumvent my role in any way she could. You cannot imagine, but she is one of the most esteemed of our Seniors, and I exaggerate not - it took so many years to realise what was going on and the problems it caused. She did not make problems, but she took available opportunities to starve me out and get me replaced. Pity, she could have just looked at the fantastic results we were creating rather than buy into gossip and her own impure sanskars.

An even greater pity was that she could have simply expressed her intentions, or views, and saved me all that grief. But she couldn't, they were based on discrimination and contempt.

It all came to a head in Madhuban many years later - in a private meeting she let fly with an extended, articulate tirade of horrendous abuse - it floored me. I had never heard or felt anything like it. I was equally devastated by the fact that she was 25 years 'in Gyan' and she was actually capable of something like that. What did that say about the 'promises'?

I am not the only one with a story like that. The woman is a repressed, heartless ***** who dares to stand up in front of an audience and talk about love and peace?!

Okay, I am annoyed. I think I have a right to be. But the reason I am venting is because she is the embodiment of all things BK - impossible promises, nowhere else to go, repressed, and up in her head.

If you read the string 'honour roll' you will understand - she and Ranjana had lived and 'served' together for many years. When Ranjana committed suicide she spent months on a slab in a morgue without any inquiry - even from her 'compassionate, loving, concerned' sister Jayanti. And then it was all kept quiet. In the 20 years since Ranjanas tragic and unnecessary death, no policy, plan or otherwise has been put in place to ensure that something like that would not happen again.

The topics of depression and suicide have never been raised. Concern for souls who are depressed has never been expressed. Rather, a questionnaire was given to souls who might be chosen to live in a Centre asking if they suffered depression - the reason was to prevent them from moving into a centre - to be effectively discriminated against. And told to have more Yoga!

That way the Brahma Kumaris can keep up its public face of compassion, peace, bliss and loveliness. And continue to make impossible promises.


To the time she ripped me to shreds in Madhuban nearly 10 years later - if you want an insight: we were having a meeting in Madhuban.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Nov 2006

primal.logic, I'd be interested to hear more of that meeting in the 'Holiest of Holy' grounds. I have heard Jayanti is really tense.
invited_to_be_a_bk wrote:I just cant find one good reason why an organization that uses dirty tactics be tolerated. I did not say that the organization is bad at all, from posts that I read here, it sounds ... that the damage they could give outweighs the goodness that they try to give the world.
The reasons are probably because, until now, there has been no public discussion, no single focus of group support for those damaged by/or critical of the experience. After leaving individuals are lost, broken, suicidal, filled with remorse for the wasted years of their lives and unable to fit back into normal society. It can take years to rebuild one's self.

Thousands of BK leave Gyan, far more than actually stay, often with nothing having given everything for years. They are often afraid of these people and it is pointless to question or speak out against the leaders - who you are told are the closest to God, the 8 or 108 top most souls of humanity - as you hear above. Even if you have been conned out of thousands of pounds.
They have a lot of secrecy surrounding their true beliefs. The BKs as a whole go to great lengths to hide what the really believe. You can read some of that material for yourself on this website.

Most BKs will only answer your questions in a secretive cryptic manner until they feel 'your intellect has opened' this means they feel you are ready to understand the bigger picture or the whole truth as they see it.
Which, of course, they and their God call it "your impure intellect". You are not allowed to hear the truth or read the secreted away Murlis because your "Shudra" intellect is so impure and inferior to understand them. "Shudra" means Untouchable, the lowest caste in Hinduism. They are the most superior "Brahmin" caste, the true Brahmins and not the classical Hindu ones either. Yes, and "non-reaction" gaze your mention 'invited_to_be_' is something that Brahmins develop not to give a way their true feelings.

I do not know yet what is the mechanism by which they open your up head to stop resisting all this stuff and accept it as "your birthright", to be overcome by the "intoxication" of the "Honeymoon Period" when the individual becoming a BK Raja Yoga is overwhelmed by highs and emotions. Some people just say it is hypnotism but I think it is something on the psychic level, a sort of mild possession. I don't know any other word for it. The teachings distinctly make clear that the BKs are prepared to become unconscious channels or mediums for their God.

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Post by mr green » 24 Nov 2006

Wow primal, I can really relate to a lot of what you say. I was 'surrendered' too and also had a lot of dealings with Jayanti. Especially in the run up to me leaving, I dealt solely with her.

I experienced her lying to my face and attempting to discredit me behind my back.

Circumstance caught her out for me. She rang someone up to try and glean imformation about me and funnily enough I was in the room with the person she called. So I got near enough hear everything said. I later told Jayanti I was aware of the entire conversation she had had, and later Jayanti told this person how angry she was for betraying her!!!!!!!

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Nov 2006

Mr Green wrote:I later told Jayanti I was aware of the entire conversation she had had, and later Jayanti told this person how angry she was for betraying her!!!!!!!
Anger ... a senior BK expressing anger after all those years? Anger at loss of control or being exposed for what she said ... would not that suggest a degree of ego?

Please tell us more of the truth of things. How was she accusing you?

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Post by mr green » 24 Nov 2006

Well, they had agreed to pay me compensation money for various reasons which Dadi Janki had suggested they do but one of the 'trustees' thought otherwise and decided from the five to ten minutes I met with him that I was showing signs of someone who is 'on drugs' and therefore I was not a valid case and could be dis-credited. He informed Jayanti of his position. She then phoned a good friend of mine to see if she could glean any information as to whether I was on drugs or not. She was asking things like ... "have you ever known him to take drugs etc!!!!" I was a fully surrendered brother for God's sake, taking drugs was not something that would have even entered my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is, by the way, after everyone had fully recognised the abuse I suffered had taken place and the compensationary amount had been agreed.

As I said, I was there when the call was made and I must say it shocked me as deeply if not deeper than the initial abuse I had suffered at the hands of my senior. Yes, and she told my friend later how angry she was for being betrayed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was also privy to another conversation that Jayanti made to the same individual, in that she was told it would be a good idea if certain individuals were discouraged from being involved with the Janki Foundations public face. We found out the reason later ... these individuals had attended the PBK centre in India.

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Post by invited_to_be_a_bk » 24 Nov 2006

Ey guys, thanks a lot for all your insights. i really read every word of it. i really learned a lot from you. And guess what, my friend just emailed me that sister whoever-her-name is, a national coordinator will be coming to our city 2 days from now for a group discussion on Spirituality, Inner Peace, Positive Thinking, etc. and asked me what my thoughts are ... i know that on matters like this, he would ask for my assitance since i was the only one who gathered participants during the previous seminars. And that leads me to speculating that maybe, these two bk members don't have the power to convince their family and friends. If they still have lolz. Is it not power one of the promises BK offers when u choose their way of life ... :).

My friend also asked, if it might be possible to use my connections so that the national coordinator will be interviewed in the radio. ... No way ... i'll never let them use me to promote their so-called truth. :by telling untruth ... so to speak.

BTW, i did not answer his email yet :).

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Nov 2006

Mr Green wrote:Well, they had agreed to pay me compensation money for various reasons which Dadi Janki had suggested they do but one of the 'trustees' thought otherwise and decided from the five to ten minutes I met with him that I was showing signs of someone who is 'on drugs' and therefore I was not a valid case and could be dis-credited.
I thought the BKWSU was run by the sisters, who is this brother?

I don't expect you to name names unless you want to but is he a senior brother, do people know him, how is his status and opinions assessed
  • ... and why are the two biggest name Seniors in the Western world taking Shrimat from him and breaking their word to follow his advice?
"Curiouser and curiouser," said the white rabbit as it disappeared down another dark hole.

I thought they said the BKWSU was run by women?

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Post by mr green » 24 Nov 2006

You know what, I too was amazed by this and I asked Jayanti the very same. But apparently the trustees have more power than the administrators when it comes to matters of finance.

I don't know if it's right to name him completely so let me say this, he is an accountant. He does most of the accounting for the BKs in this country and was given his trustee status fairly recently. You might be interested to know the majority of the trustees in this country are men!). I presume he was given this position because he is the accountant. He is not a senior brother at all, he was in Gyan far less time than myself.

Yes, he went against the word of Dadi Janki. And it was him that tried to stop me receiving the compensation money that Dadi had asked me to come to Global House to collect.

He shook my hand and slapped me on the back and said to my face, "everyone thinks you should have this money".

Then within days I found out he was spreading lies about me and saying that I was on drugs, and he's got power over all you bk boys and girls.

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Post by sparkal » 24 Nov 2006

Hi sister, Your friend is allowing you freedom and treating you with the unconditional respect that you are entitled to as a human soul. It can seem slightly daunting, all this detached clinical stuff, and indeed it may not be as cold as it may appear. It may take time to get used to this different approach to life and the universe. The question is, can you enjoy the relationship which you have with him without having your own conditions and desires?

We can look for things in the BKs which are not there. It is not a secret society. Their intentions are usually pure, even if done through a blind faith filter but these are all personal things of the individuals to some degree. Your friend may mature over time and come out the other end wondering what just happened. But none of us are ever the same again, for better and, well, it is all very personal and subjective. We are all individuals. And, there is no shame in losing out to God, consider that your friend may only do this very rarely, as in every thousands of years.

Also, consider what your friend may be doing if he had never met the BKs. I feel that I have been through a bit, but I would not swap my awakened state for my old ignorant pre-BK self. People don't just become celibate etc. They do so for a reason. The reason being that they have EXPERIENCED something. What has your friend experienced that makes him how he is?

I hope you can find happiness in all this. As Mr Green said, try lightness, humour him, have unconditional fun with him but most of all, accept him. It is not the end of the world after all, :roll: , literally.

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Post by john » 25 Nov 2006

invited_to_be_a_bk wrote:I just cant find one good reason why an organization that uses dirty tactics be tolerated. I did not say that the organization is bad at all, from posts that I read here, it sounds ... that the damage they could give outweighs the goodness that they try to give the world. I am sorry, just my opinion.
But do you really know any of this for yourself?
Do you believe any and everything you read on the internet?
This site could be full of disinformation, how would you know?

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