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proy
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Manic Depression

Post by proy » 03 Sep 2007

peter de wrote:My depression tendency is much older than my BK period. But I was stabilised for 5 years before I met the BK.
In those early BK years the depression became a manic-depression syndrome (because of Baba pulling me up high again and again ...).
So, if I understand you correctly Peter, you were already suffering from a mental illness and Raja Yoga made it worse?

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Post by peter de » 03 Sep 2007

Yes, but that doesn't mean we have to blame Raja Yoga, is not it?

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It does not mean we have to blame Raja Yoga

Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Sep 2007

peter de wrote:yes, but that doesn't mean we have to blame Raja Yoga, is not it?
Hi peter de, you have a point. To what extent are you open to examining the possibility that Raja Yoga did not make things better?
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Post by peter de » 03 Sep 2007

To the maximum possible extent!

Of course, who wants to follow a daily discipline that makes one sick?! I feel on one hand that Raja Yoga meditation does me good. But from the moment I started, I experienced the reactionary forces come alive, what we call Maya. That doesn't mean that people who don't meditate are free from Maya but to be a raja yogi is to challenge Maya, is to awaken her.

Maya used to be the companion of every soul, so she feels at ease and sleeps like a lazy cat, but with a yogi she transforms in a roaring tiger! I think that is the reason why a lot of aspirants have to stop on this path: to make the tiger calm again :lol:. I think it takes a lot of faith in God and Godly powers to let the good energy always stay stronger than the bad. The words of Baba: Maya eats a lot good children.

I am thinking ... the first time I quit Raja Yoga, it felt a relieve. I remember that I had the feeling that I had left things aside because of being busy with Raja Yoga and that it was good to make up for lost time. Detachment can be very good but as long as it is superficial (sometimes even artificial) one has to go sooner or later back to starting point. To our old self. I think that's the problem often; we lose our self (the old familiar self) in the still strange world of baba. Many of us come in the Yagya on our own. Single. It is a law in every group or community; the single newcomer has to adapt to the majority. The art is then to adapt without losing yourself.

No, I don't blame anything on Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga challenges us to learn a healthy living. I read here several times about complaints about brahmins, especially teachers ... but Baba says; Why do you let yourself be influenced by others, since it is 'One Baba and no other', no one can ever influence you, be it in virtues or in weaknesses. And Dadi Janki once said; Never be impressed by someone, rather make a good impression on everyone.

These are words where we can, I think, work on for a whole lifetime.

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Never be impressed ... make a good impression

Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Sep 2007

peter de wrote:... And Dadi Janki once said: Never be impressed by someone, rather make a good impression on everyone. These are words where we, I think, can work on for a whole lifetime.
peter de, what do the words mean? And do they describe a realistic aim? How are we to recognise when we are in that 'stage'? Does it mean that i remain unimpressed by others but i ensure that others are impressed by me? Or is my responsibility to make a good impression and leave it up to others to decide whether or not to be impressed? And while they are making their mind's up (possibly being impressed in the meantime) do i take advantage of their failure to heed Dadi's manmat by impressing them even more? Do i feed my ego upon their adoration? Or do i give more teachings? Or point them in the direction of G-O-D?

Apologies for my frequent questions but I am making efforts NOT to allow these sorts of thing to enter my psyche without first weighing-up their value (as much as i ma capable of doing so).

I think that as Raja Yoga practitioners we are handled in a manner that is designed to make us believe that we DO understand the most dim, but elevated sounding mouthfulls. Sure I can come up with a few ways of utilising that from Dadi in what i hope would be an elevated way - but is that beacuse of my own power or the teachings/teacher's wisdom?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2007

peter de wrote:to be a raja yogi is to challenge Maya, is to awaken her.
To join the family is to take on even more Maya from other BKs ...

We are told this. I would like to know how true it is. How much abuse do we suffer and excuse under of "Maya"? What if the system was just sick or corrupt and told us "this is Maya, it will come".

My experience of those that have been doing it for 30, 50, 70 years is not great advertisement for individuals cured of Maya.

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2007

To join the family is to take on even more Maya from other BKs ... We are told this. I would like to know how true it is. How much abuse do we suffer and excuse under of "Maya"? What if the system was just sick or corrupt and told us "this is Maya, it will come". My experience of those that have been doing it for 30, 50, 70 years is not great advertisement for individuals cured of Maya.
Maya is within. The battle is within. In both ways Maya grows. In the Murli the example is given that when the curing (with herbs) starts illnesses emerge, increase, but we should not be concerned and stop the curing, but also when we meet some Maya-like soul also our Maya grows, because of the colour of the company. We have to battle anyway. That's why the Gita resembles an encouragement for battle. Arjun says "i don't want to fight" and God says "You have to fight, this war is inevitable and you have already fought it many times and you have won many times, consider it as if you have won already. See everyone as if already dead."

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2007

andrey ... you've never joined the family, so you do not know what you are talking about.

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To join the family is to take on even more Maya, BK styleeee

Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Sep 2007

peter de wrote:to be a raja yogi is to challenge Maya, is to awaken her.
ex-l wrote:To join the family is to take on even more Maya from other BKs ... We are told this. I would like to know how true it is. How much abuse do we suffer and excuse under of "Maya"? What if the system was just sick or corrupt and told us "this is Maya, it will come". My experience of those that have been doing it for 30, 50, 70 years is not great advertisement for individuals cured of Maya.
ex-l's last sentence mentioned bk length-of-service as it may or may not correlate to us becoming conquerors of Maya. As long as there is a bk there will be Maya.

I remember when i was a young bk i was encouraged, by my teacher (now deceased ...), to come into the gathering at every opportunity so that 'sanskaras can rub'. My instinctive reaction to this invitation was no thank you. Sanskaras were horrible things i thought, why come together so that they can 'rub'!

Well, being who i am, and a quite dilligent bk student at the time :wink:, avid on the Murlis, satisified with my meditation experiences etc etc, i eventually did find myself in the local gathering quite a lot. And, boy, did sanskars rub! Maya, Maya everywhere; my Maya, that one's Maya, his Maya, her Maya, their Maya, what is Maya, who is Maya, ravana's Maya; Maya's ravana, YOU'VE GOT Maya!

All because of sanskaras "rubbing". Let alone being cured of Maya, how much closer to G-O-D did we get?

What if the system was just sick or corrupt and told us "this is Maya, it will come".

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Post by andrey » 04 Sep 2007

andrey ... you've never joined the family, so you do not know what you are talking about.
You seem to always have given more preference to the external thing, how many years in Gyan, where have you been living etc. In the Murlis Baba has said that even far away we are in the familly, it is a matter of where you are with your interest, intellect. I have had long enough experiences with BKs and still maintain. Just because there is no center here then there is no need to draw any such conclusion. Here it is a matter of spiritual matters, and spiritual, living centers and not of bricks and stones.

If you have not been happy with the BKs then maybe they have not been happy with you either. Whatever we are, we will see this. It is as if the situation that "the thief cries catch the thief". If you have been like form of Maya to others and spreading corruption, then this is what you will be getting.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:andrey ... you've never joined the family, so you do not know what you are talking about.
andrey wrote:You seem to always have given more preference to the external thing, how many yers in Gyan, where have you been living etc. In the Murlis Baba has said that even far away we are in the familly, it is a matter of where you are with your interest, intellect. I have had long enough experiences with BKs and still maintain. Just because there is no center here then there is no need to draw any such conclusion. Here it is a matter of spiritual matters, and spiritual, living centers and not of bricks and stones.
If you have not been happy with the BKs then maybe they have not been happy with you either. Whatever we are we will see this. It is as if the situation that "the thief cries catch the thief" if you have been like form of Maya to others and spreading corruption then this is what you will be getting.
Yesterday i commented on words that were not addressed to me and i was given a sharp reminder of that. So i will let ex-l respond if she cares to.

I will go have a natter in another place as this little exchange fits right into some thoughts that i am having at the moment.

regards
abek

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Post by adikarisoul » 04 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:You seem to always have given more preference to the external thing, how many yers in Gyan, where have you been living etc. In the Murlis Baba has said that even far away we are in the familly, it is a matter of where you are with your interest, intellect. I have had long enough experiences with BKs and still maintain. Just because there is no center here then there is no need to draw any such conclusion. Here it is a matter of spiritual matters, and spiritual, living centers and not of bricks and stones.

If you have not been happy with the BKs then maybe they have not been happy with you either. Whatever we are we will see this. It is as if the situation that "the thief cries catch the thief" if you have been like form of Maya to others and spreading corruption then this is what you will be getting.
Hey Andrey,

I am really surprised at the tone of your reply to Abek. How do you dare to "spit out" such horrible statement?? I agree with ex-l fully "you don't know what you're talking about ... ".

Maybe your "edulcorated" experience of BKs is due to the fact that you do not live near to a centre.Why don't you try for a while, to move closer to a BK center or even better as many of us have been doing for years go and live in a BK center (for let's say one year..) with a bunch of bitter/repressed/manipulative/career-minded BKs and then you may "maybe" have the "right" to say something about that.

I hope you're "good enough" to excuse yourself with Abek and with all of us who agree with him.

Adi

PS: If you're so fond of BKs, why are you a PBK???

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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Sep 2007

Hi Adikhari thanks, But I do not think that the words were addressed to me. At least the quoted section (that andrey built his feedback on) was not written by me. That nonwithstanding though, the response is hardly worth commenting on - on a personal level that is. But andrey mentions lots that would raise the hackles of any free-thinking human. I intend to post something as a general observation on such tendencies as our friend has demonstrated here. Welcome back adi.

Regards
abek

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Post by john » 04 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:andrey ... you've never joined the family, so you do not know what you are talking about.
andrey wrote:You seem to always have given more preference to the external thing, how many yers in Gyan, where have you been living etc.
Real life experience is very valid, that is what is being asserted, not just that they are external matters. In that, we are able to see life and compare with what what we have learnt, rather than like a sanyassi, hidden away.

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Post by andrey » 04 Sep 2007

It is not said in any Murli that we should go and live in a center, but it is said that we should live at home and take care for our lokik family. Sanyasis leave their home and family. Although the Bk family may feel like our family we also live in the real life and face the reality every day. It is strange that for someone there is the compulsion to leave his home and go and live in a center; but when he does - he then complains.

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