Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

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katie
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Post by katie » 30 Apr 2007

Hi Di,

So sorry to hear your news, cant believe that it has gone this way, as you say he will wake up one day, too late for you yes ... Good on you for ringing the centre I would do the same, if not turn up there one night, although they do not hear what they do not want to hear ...

My thought are with you and your famliy. Feel free to PM, or you have my email address, anytime. Only to willing to listen !!

Take care of YOU !!!

Love always, K x

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Post by bansy » 30 Apr 2007

di wrote:When I am able to, and far less emotional than I am now (I suppose I will eventually stop crying), I will do a blog for others so they know they are not on their own.
I hope you do. There is a place here to do so (see the top of the screen "Userpages"), a place for you to stress out on your own, and to stress out with others in the rest of the forum.

How about your children, are they handling it ? Why don't also ask them to stress out here (there is also a Youth forum). Sometimes it is hard to find the right people just to listen, something like the BKs is not something you can just tell right out to another person who hasn't gone or understand what the BK thing is.
He intends to rent
Is this his intention, or is it yours. You need to be clear headed here, I am not suggesting to "hate" him, but to have matters clear cut. Yes, maybe you could do with some of the money but I'd rather keep things clear, and it will also make him think how much it costs to go alone and be a BK. Don't burden yourself with guilt, yours or his. If things go tough your resolute will pull you through. Many BKs become so simply because they wish for a cushy life of giving excuses to God and blame it on karma. They can be so unspiritual because they are unrealistic and impractical, if you don't mind me saying, I don't feel too sorry for you, but more so for him, as I feel you'll get through it, but he won't. If you feel the same, don't let this hold you back.

Guilt - don't feel it is. Where you go from now will always be good for you, you have your children for that.

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Post by di » 30 Apr 2007

Thank you all for your warmth and love and support. It helps me more than you know.
Many BKs become so simply because they wish for a cushy life of giving excuses to God and blame it on karma
Even this morning he tries to tell me I do not understand, i don't see the bigger picture, and there are reasons why he is doing this. My response is just excuses so he can be totally selfish and shirk all responsibilities. The end does not justify the means. It is just an excuse so he can do what ever he feel like and not feel guilty or take responsibility.

Dear Bansy, your advice is so spot on, so practical. Solictiors are researching what they can do for me. I may still have to sell the home. He cannot at this point afford to pay his half. I have been paying most of the bills. I agree, if there was any way I could, I would get him to leave now. Reality may bite a little sooner for him. I do not want him here and I do not want him to rent. It makes it all too easy for him. While he is here he has everything he wants, a place to sleep, he is set up, a safety net and the only thing he has to do is turn his back on me and the boys.

At least this way he has to witness some of what he is doing to us and the pain he is directly responsible for. He will remember it in time to come. Preferable the house is put in trust and he has to work 24/7 to make his share of payments. Then i can work towards being totally independant and kick him out. How i am going to survive with him in the house and us barely speaking I do not know. It is just madness. This is tearing him apart but he is so brainwashed he continues.

What upsets me the most is that he has a choice. He just doesnt want to have a choice so he tells himself he has to do this. Like all addicts he makes this an excuse so he can live in denial, so he doesn't have to behave like an adult, take responsibility and face the consequences of his actions. Time has a way of making it that it is eventually unavoidable.

The children are managing. They are being as supportive of me and helping where they can. The eldest is staying away for a few days because it is so unpleasant. The 16 year old feels it the most. I urged him to come on the forum but at this stage he doesn't really want to be involved. They are hurting, and this pretense of a man has not said anything to them. He leaves it up to me, once again shirking his responsibilities. He barely speaks to them for days, just hiding in his room. It is nothing but disgusting.

My real problem i have to work through is to totally detach from him. But i am in shock now and having a real fight dealing with this. It is too raw just now and any decisions i make just now I cannot be sure they are the right ones. I'll get better eventually. Time cures all they tell me.

Why cannot the BKs be like you Yudhishtira? Then we wouldn't be suffering like this. I just want him gone and out of my life now because it is just too painful. I want to run away but I cannot.

I thank God for this forum and the people in it. I don't know what I would have done without you. My warmest heartfelt love for you all.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 May 2007

di wrote:Even this morning he tries to tell me I do not understand, I don't see the bigger picture, and there are reasons why he is doing this.
But you do. Hanging around with us you have a better idea about the bigger picture than the usual 6 month to 2 year old BK.

You are right in at the deep end of things being told stuff folks do not hear until they are completely hooked or, in the case of the history and predictions of Destruction, even 20 year later!

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Love

Post by proy » 01 May 2007

di wrote:I thank God for this forum and the people in it. I don't know what I would have done without you. My warmest heartfelt love for you all.
I feel the same way Di. If it were not for this forum and the people I have met through it I would be in a terrible mess. Please write your blog here. Let your emotions out, and tell your story. It will help you and it will help others.
ex-l wrote:Let them know that we are going to hang their dirty washing out in the public eye so folk know the true before they are duped by free courses in this or that.
Do you know how many people get sucked into this terrible destructive cult in this disingenuous way? I still know some BKs and these classes are going on every week in every centre, all over the world.

I have some small idea of how you may be feeling now Di, and I can recommend that you continue to write here and to allow us to support you.

Much Love to You. :)

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 May 2007

di wrote:Even this morning he tries to tell me I do not understand, I don't see the bigger picture, and there are reasons why he is doing this.
Just out of interest, can you tell us specifically what he says is "the bigger picture"?

Firstly, it is a very good destablising technique on behalf of individuals such as him so say, "you don't understand" and lean on any self-doubt you have and claim a self-important "bigger picture" to lean on your insecurities. I have know people who used that technique as a power ploy in relationships.

And you do understand; the BKs think the world is about to be Destroyed, God Himself has come, a Golden Age is going to start in 2036 and that BK Raja Yoga is the only way to save themselves and earn a high status (any status), in the next 5,000 year cycle.

You have seen the pictures of the posters on this site? That is the BKWSU in 40 words or less. If you put it to him, I guarantee the first lip quivering response he will make will be to bleat out, "God has never given a specific date for Destruction/Golden Age". It is the pre-packaged, pre-programmed, corporate response/prayer of BKs. And it is typically misleading or dishonest on their behalf. They are lying to themselves.

"God" has given specific dates 'within a year or so' on many ocassions. 1950, 1976, 1986 - 96 and 12, 40 and 100 years for "Confluence Age" are a few. Most new BKs will not know these but are they are solid facts and referenceable.

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Post by proy » 01 May 2007

ex-l wrote:"God" has given specific dates 'within a year or so' on many ocassions.
I was still going to listen to Avyakt Murlis and to watch them on web casts last year.

The same predictions are made all the time. What it boils down to is, "When you brahmins are ready, then the world will be destroyed and you will be the ones left alive to be the new world rulers."

Every year they expect Destruction, all the time. They long for it. I am so glad that we have compassionate BKs like Yudhistira on this forum.

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Post by mr green » 01 May 2007

The truth about the BKs is ... Lechraj, the ego maniac, decided he would like to be worshipped like a guru. Money and hedonism was not enough for him.

So he re-wrote his own cultural religion, Hinduism, and added a bit of fire and brimstone from Christianity, then tricked vulnerable women into believeing he was uplifting them.

And now we have an out of control cult (only recently have I been able to accept that this is what they are) that is ONLY causing harm to society and humanity ... I sincerly believe they benefit NO ONE.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 May 2007

mr green wrote:The truth about the BKs is ... Lechraj, the ego maniac, decided he would like to be worshipped like a guru. Money and hedonism was not enough for him.
Do you mean Lekhraj or Letch-raj (as in lecher)? As in 'King of the Letchers'.

I think there is something in this point of view the personal, social and sexual psychology around his "enlightenment" would make a wonderful investigation to do and is impossible to remove from equation of understanding him and the BKWSU. Especially when you read all the wind up and utterly bonkers letters they were sending out int he 30s and 40s. No wonder the BK try and hide all this stuff.

His psychotic episode where he was having a mental breaking down and was shipped off to Benares to draw on the walls with a crayon (he really could have used some paper, methinks ...) is also key. And, yes, as I said to Yudisthra, I think we should search for the British/Christian influence that is current through the latter philosophy and Murlis. It may have been that which kicked it all off.

But where I would go further than you is that during that psychotic breakdown, I do actually believe that his psyche was opened up and some other spook or spooks, for the want of a better word, (as well as weird stuff with his higer self) entered him. I do believe that there is ALSO some other entity involved. And I am not yet sure it is entirely benign, as you point out. we know that the BK story is not true now and there were other spookery and mediumship going on. Are they just trying to cover up what really happened?

"By their fruits, ye shall know them" ... well, honestly, what fruits are the BKWSU producing?

They appear to me to be very deceitful, controlling, power and status hungry, happy to live off other 'peoples' fruits' and create discord from which they flourish. To me and to date, this is the nature of the spooks we are dealing with ... within the BKWSU.

The sweet talking salespitch is wonderful. They enjoy talking shops very much so. They may even have taken some turmeric grains of truth to start their grocery store. But have they really brought about any positive reform anywhere? Now, I do not tar all BKs, or even the PBKs, with the same brush. (PBKs, it is hard to fight a monster even to defend yourself and not become one). I just think we should open our eyes a little more. even if it all was entirely "good", psychologically I would expect an opposite and equal resistance from "evil" to confront and destroy it. May be now from within.

70 years and all that time, energy and money ... do you think that it would not have been possible to start a University with it all?

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Post by di » 01 May 2007

Ahh, the truth will eventually come out ... even for the BK org.

Yes, we look at the beginnings, a psychotic Indian channeling entities and a society which looks down on women and sexually abuses them ... a mad man, and a group of women who hate their husbands and have a lot of psychological issues from sex abuse (no wonder sex is so bad). Throw in a country with a caste system ... a great recipe for a cult beginning, world madness and domination.

I believe, as Ex-i has said, that one of the problems is the lack of scrutinisation that goes on in the recruitment stage. I finally managed to get my partner angry enough that a few things came out that even surprised him. In summary ... he is an alcohlic, he stopped going to AA and became a BK, found that it wasn't really for him after a few years, managed OK, met me and went back to BKs.

Why? Easy, the disease of denial. Initially when he was with me, he was 'high' on being in love. The chemicals released by our bodies! When things settle down as they do, the 'high' diminished. I was at work every evening and not around. So what does he blame the diminishment of ecstatic feelings on? Our relationship, of course, not his addiction.

So, he needs that 'feel good' thing to happen, plus the pre-programing previously from the BKs. He goes back. He has to become more and more involved in order to get the same fix. It still is not working. Now, as I see it, he has two addictions to conquer. Alcohol and the BKs. He accused me of letting him slide downhill over 12 months and did nothing ... Denial, denial, denial to shirk responsibility. He admits he is so close to having a drink. At least it is out in the open now. Stupid man thought that a good loving relationship would cure all, just as he thinks BKs would cure all. How back to front is that?

He is still denying that his meditation won't control his alcohol ... but, as i said, it's not working is it? You can only run for so long before you have to face it.

So, the responsibilities of the BKWSU? Shameless. To recruit people and not to monitor their reasonings for joining, for wanting meditation, to monitor their progress, to actually con them and have no regard or responsibility towards and individuals welfare is beyond disgusting. To use a person's need to find God and apply spiritualism in their lives ...

What they are doing is incorporating the lowest forms of human behaviour for self gain at the personal cost of groups and individuals. The quotes below are from and this article (click to link) The Battle for Your Mind by Dick Sutphen and give a factual account of the methods used to induce the chemical release of the brain, just what the addict needs to continue to get their fix or medicine. All under the guise of God.
Dick Sutphen wrote:The second thought stopping technique is MEDITATION. If you spend an hour to an hour and a half a day in meditation, after a few weeks, there is a great probability that you will not return to full beta consciousness. You will remain in a fixed state of alpha for as long as you continue to meditate.

I am not saying this is bad - if you do it yourself. It may be very beneficial. But it is a fact that you are causing your mind to go flat. I've worked with meditators on an EEG machine and the results are conclusive: the more you meditate, the flatter your mind becomes until, eventually and especially if used to excess or in combination with decognition, all thought ceases. Some spiritual groups see this as nirvana - which is bullsh**. It is simply a predictable physiological result. And if heaven on earth is non-thinking and non-involvement, I really question why we are here.
Combine that with;
Before I continue, let me point out something else about an altered state of consciousness. When you go into an altered state, you transfer into right brain, which results in the internal release of the body's own opiates: enkephalins and Beta-endorphins, chemically almost identical to opium. In other words, it feels good ... and you want to come back for more.
A junkies/addicts dream come true, opiates on tap, and free!

And last but not least, hurray for toli and the no meat, no garlic no onions diet ... result
Step One is ALERTNESS REDUCTION: The controllers cause the nervous system to malfunction, making it difficult to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

This can be accomplished in several ways. POOR DIET is one; watch out for Brownies and Koolaid. The sugar throws the nervous system off. More subtle is the "SPIRITUAL DIET" used by many cults. They eat only vegetables and fruits; without the grounding of grains, nuts, seeds, dairy products, fish or meat, an individual becomes mentally "spacey." INADEQUATE SLEEP is another primary way to reduce alertness, especially when combined with long hours of work or intense physical activity. Also, being bombarded with intense and unique experiences achieves the same result.
What will happen is up to him. He can continue getting high and hit rock bottom, lose everything or he can pull his finger out, stop making his excuses and denials and go and do something he should never have stopped. Talk about a mammoth feel sorry for one self. "I am an alcoholic, i am unable to ever have a healthy relationship, I am doomed, I am, I, I, I ..."

The BKWSU should be blown out of existence. It is nothing but a demon and a scourge on the earth using whatever deceptive and dishonest means it can to use unsuspecting and vulnerable people for its own ends. Well, the nice wife is not around now, I have stopped crying for the moment, and I am at war (again).

I live with an dual addict, alcohol and a cult. I am off to the first Al-Anon meeting available. I get the BK kiss on the cheek, I tell him to shove it and stick it where the sun doesnt shine. Give me the real thing (and he did). No more pussy footing around, treating him with kid gloves. There is a new understanding here. What happens is up to him. If he doesnt go to AA within a fortnight he can leave. Without it he is incapable of leaving the BKs, incapable of not ending up drinking and incapable of having a relationship. Off to the solicitor's appointment tomorrow. I am sick and tired of people feeling sorry for themselves and using the BK doctrine to give them every excuse under God's name (ARRGGGHHH) to treat everyone on earth like s****.

It is due to this forum that I have been shown what this organization is really about and some of the most dispicable methods they use. I would not be getting through this without you. I have to fight the war on the home-front first, when that is finished (either result), then I can start the global. I won't forget what has been done to my family, nor do I forget he is ultimately responsible for his actions.

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BKWSU Alcoholic retreats and 'The People of the Lie'

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 May 2007

I don't want to spoil your day but ...

the BKWSU organizes retreat for AA membersat their Peace Village retreat center and the AA are entirely unaware of it. I would argue it is another case of the BKWSU using someone else's good name and credibility, status by association otherwise. I think it should be stopped for the 'Duty of Care' reasons you state. Yes, you are right, they will use anything. They advertise it on Capitol News and elsewhere.

I would also like to throw in another googly (a wrong'un in Oz) here. For all my rational intelligence, all two cells of it, I actually come from a spiritualist background. Not a New Agey BK Lee James "spiritualist" kind of thing but a crusty old fashioned Christian Spiritualism. I am loose about who and what Christ is or was but I am open to the language of spooks and spirits ... even if they are just metaphors for psychological influences we do not otherwise yet understand. (And there is a whole distance into psychiatry that Spiritualist should not really venture).

I would offer perhaps as a working theory, that in alcholism and drug taking it is suggested that the spirit of the abuser in opened up in an uncontrolled manner and other lower level entities can enter and attach themselves into the mental and emotional body of the individual. Where this is one, they can be many. Legion of them. In the past, this was controlled and welcomed. Shamen and peyote for example. (Actually, may be ayahuasca or ibogane therapy would do the job for him and blow out the cobwebs ... but make him pay for it).

In alcoholism and drug abuse, it is said that it is not only the individual that is craving the stimulant but also the psychic parasites within and around them. I am not disrespecting psychiatry, and know the limts, but from a psychic ( and not BK) point of view this is how the 'drunk have argument with invisible friends' etc is seen. It can also be worked at from this point of view.

I lead into this because the BKWSU actually entirely denies the whole psychic/intuitive realm and influence. My feeling is because something is go ing on and they do not want inspection and introsepction from this quarter. I would suggest reading over 'People of the Lie' by M. Scott Peck. There is a link to it form the Books and music topic. It is a short readable book and the late M. Scott Peck was a properly trained psychiatrist. If this is too much, let's go back to just exposing the way the BKWSU works.

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Re: BKWSU Alcoholic retreats and 'The People of the Lie'

Post by alladin » 02 May 2007

Hi, Di, and congratulation for your contributions and the good example you are setting. A very determined shakti sister, and with a clear intellect.

I wish teachers in BK centers were like you!! So, if you ever stop looking after the double addict (which unfortunately happens to be the man you loved!! :cry: ), you will be welcome at taking more and more care of us on the forum! I am, and guess we are, all proud of you, and appreciate your sharing. Good wishes + hugs.

I am just listening to Eagles " Tequila Sunrise". It brings up good memories. Well, if you are lucky he will drop the tequila, with the help of AA, and you will go watch a sunrise together again. :wink:
ex-l wrote:I don't want to spoil your day but ... I would offer perhaps as a working theory, that in alcholism and drug taking it is suggested that the spirit of the abuser in opened up in an uncontrolled manner and other lower level entities can enter and attach themselves into the mental and emotional body of the individual. Where this is one, they can be many. Legion of them ... I lead into this because the BKWSU actually entirely denies the whole psychic/intuitive realm and influence.
I heard this before from competant people and reliable sources, and it makes it a lot of sense. So, for BKs it's very convenient to just sit at centers, throwing a fish-line called meditation for peace, advertising it as a free of charge and guru-free method for getting rid of stress and addictions, etc ... and lots of people with different problems turn up and bite and get used. Most of them (actually us, since we've been through it!) are vulnerable, but alcholics and drug addicts in particular are easy and interesting preys to leech on + manipulate, open channels. Who was talking about chords, some time ago, BTW?

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How to detach emotionally from a BK?

Post by di » 02 May 2007

Maybe a new thread?

It is impossible to have any true relationship with an involved BK? No matter what the reasons for their obsession with this cult, it can be only a situation which will tear oneself apart. There is no support from his family. The reasoning I got from his mother is that there must have been something wrong with our relationship for him to go back to meditation (so he doesn't drink), thereby excusing all of his actions. He is an alcoholic and therefore is given special understanding.

Not her exact words of course, but the meaning. I think they call it enabling. There is no room for relating. She says let him go and when he feels better he will stop as he did last time. No willingness to listen to the law of detachment and celibacy and to love no one but God. "Have I ever been?", she asks. She said, "they are so nice and it is so peaceful in the centres, and the meditation is free, and you can leave any time you want". So no help on that front I am afraid.

I see no other option but to learn how to kill my feelings and attachment to this man. It is destructive for me not to do anything else. Round and round we go ... now he has moved back into the room with me, probably because the bed is better, but now will hug and kiss me again. It is a plot to send me mad.

Has anyone in this forum got any practical suggestions on how to remove myself emotionally from this situation. In other words, how do you kill your love for someone, give up all of your plans together and your dreams for the future? To do any thing else, and keep hoping, is self destructive. I was hoping not to have to do this as I always held some hope he would return. Even if he does, i have to survive this, and I cannot in this manner, i.e. the rollercoaster. I need to stop loving him and caring what happens. I cannot keep doing this. At the moment we have no option but to cohabitate.

So how does one 'remove' oneself from a relationship and have a cold heart to someone they once had a view of a committed lifetime together? Other than going and succumbing to the disease of BK-dom which i refuse to. There is nothing in this relationship for me. There are too many excuses for him supported by his family. He is not held accountable for his actions.

Dear Alladin, such sweet words, I am afraid I am not capable of looking after me at the moment. I cant see how I could be of any use to anyone else. Lovely thoughts though.

Abek has a wonderful thread going for happy BK couples. The silence speaks volumes.

I seriously appologise. This sounds such a pathetically emotional post. I need to ditch the emotional. I have eyes glued to the other posts on this forum and find them intriguing to say the least. Thank you.

What steps can I take to emotionally detach from this man? This is not a rhetorical question, I need sound practical steps. How about a 12 Step Plan for us lokik families? All suggestions welcome please.

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Re: How to detach emotionally from a BK?

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 May 2007

di wrote:What steps can I take to emotionally detach from this man? This is not a rhetorical question, I need sound practical steps. How about a 12 Step Plan for us lokik families?
Interesting thought regarding a 12 Step for BK 'lokiks' but ... "nurse, pass the the scalpel ... now, this is going to hurt a little in the beginning but you will feel better for it in the end". (My professional 'bedside manners' match my manners inside a bed too).

There cannot be any future with someone that does not believe in any future and expect the imminent Destruction of the world. You takes your choice and you places your bet ...

Ask him when does he think Destruction will be? Do not be fobbed off by the "Baba has given no date". They are programmed to say that and we can prove them wrong. The Golden Age is meant to be ready and prepared for Lakshmi and Narayan's coronation by 2036 which mean that Radhe and Krishna must already be born. (Or it is all bollocks and will be re-written again).

Funnily enough, the advice I have heard from senior BK sisters is the same as the agony aunts in women's magazines; a period of complete separation in the first place. There is no half-way house.

You might also be able to find a psychic/healer type that offers "de-cording", i.e. the dissolving of the psychic bonds that join you and the plugging up of the chakras where you are bound. A "ritual funeral" of him and all your feelings might be useful. If you do not or cant burn all your shared memorabilia, then box it away and give it to someone else to look after, but get it away from you.

The psycho-analyst would have you examine the elements that brought you two together in the first place (beyond the good sex bit). That might be valid but you have not got the time or money to afford that route and have Al-Anon. I am sorry that the mother is so "absent" about all this. No way on earth is it something wrong in your relationship. Folks that had have no involvement in cults have no idea at what pull they have.

Bear in mind that when the word "lokiks" is used by BKs generally, at least in the West, it is with some sense of burden and apology that in someway "going to see the lokiks" is only excusable as a burden of duty but that the primary relationship is now with the BK Family. The follower has chosen to work out their psychology with other BKs and not their original community.

The BK "Family", it is called "The Family" inside, is chosen in preference as they are less-vicious, less self-centered, less-demanding, less-deluded, more introspective, balanced and evolve on the spiritual path etc. Brahma Baba calls BKs "good company" and lokiks "the impure vicous world" and historically always went for the complete cut off (until the money ran out).

The SS will recount how they returned letters to their family unopened, sent money their parents sent back to them, how they told their parents they needed nothing of the old world and now they had found heaven with their Baba. (This is almost entirely verbatim from the late BK chief Didi Manmohini. This is the environment from which the source of their guidance comes from). Personally, icing aside, I believe that the BKs are uncompromising and unrepentant, as one academic wrote and this is still what they believe. It is what is said in the Murli. You are a "karmic account" he has to pay off but your company will pull him down spiritually.

The non-BK, non-women's magazine advice is "drop the bomb" on it. Go get laid elsewhere. Have a fling with a younger man, make some kid's day. Be honest about it and have some fun "on the bounce". I am sure that you will find some co-operative soul to serve you.

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Post by bansy » 03 May 2007

di wrote:It is impossible to have any true relationship with an involved BK?
To be as up to date as possible, today's revised Sakar Murli 03 May 2007, which is spoken and read to all BKs around the world, says "If the husband takes knowlege and the wife doesn't, it creates a quarrel. There are may obstacles in this sacrificial fire".

Your partner may have heard this point.

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