Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

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andrey
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Post by andrey » 21 Jun 2007

Dear brother ex-l,

Manu is Brahma. The projeny of Manu are "manush" - human being - Brahmin - one who thinks and churns. From the mouth of Brahma, Brahmins emerge. People start thinking of the knowledge that has emerged from that mouth and become human beings. But the aim is not to become human being but a deity where mind (Brahma is said to be mind) merges.

Scriptures that are later written are rememberance of this knowledge.

Dear brother paul,

You have yourself required short answers, then why do you speculate as to why answers are short?

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:Manu is Brahma. The projeny of Manu are "manush" - human being - Brahmin - one who thinks and churns ... Scriptures that are later written are rememberance of this knowledge.
No Andrey, you are mishmashing the facts of reality and doing the BK Brahmin mental dance to confuse people. Manu was a fictional character who personalized the thoughts of a series of Brahmanas priests. Brahma is a Hindu deity.

I am sorry ... this business of the Hindu, and all other Religious scriptures, being a memorial of BK knowledge is a myth, a fairy story to make the BK feel important and pay attention. BK-ism is based on Hinduism, a little bit Sikh and a little bit Christianity mostly. Here are a translation of the Laws of Manu. Here is another.

Andrey, go through them one by one and tell me how these is a memorial of Gyan please. Is this the world you are dreaming of? reading them you will see where the references of herons, cats, the BK food rules (look out for the groovy food references to pus and semen), the sexual mores etc all come from.

Shiva Baba, Lekhraj Kirpalani, Virendra Dev Dixit ... spin our heads to exercise our minds. May be for the good, may be to delude us. I do not know yet. I put Virendra Dev Dixit to one side as he is bound by and following the constraints of the other two but, certainly Lekhraj Kirpalani picked and chose his favorite scriptures and was deeply colored by them. We know this from the facts that they read the scriptures and expounded upon them in the early days, that Lekhraj Kirpalani was a devout but not that well educated Hindu by modern standards and that the BKWSU still reeks to high heaven of Hinduism.

For folks interested in reality, the 'Laws of Manu' (Manusmriti or Manava Dharma Shastra) are a key Hindu text dating from somewhere around 500 BC to the time of Christ. It contains laws, rules and codes of conduct to be applied by individuals, communities and nations and codify the Hindu caste system, the "stages of life" and the treatment of women. It still prevails over much of uncivilised India and under their implimentation somewhere between 24 to 40 Million widows live outcast in poverty and destitution.

It was supposed to be discourse given by a Sage Manu but he probably did not exist as one person. According to the Laws;
A widow can only kill herself (suttee), live as a outcast or remarry her husband's younger brother. (in verse IX: 77).
A man aged 30 years shall marry a girl of 12 who pleases him and a man of 24 shall marry a girl of 8 years of age. (IX.94 )
Nothing must be done independently by a girl or women of any age, not even in her own house. (V.147) "Her Father protects (her) in childhood, her husband protects (her) in youth, and her sons protect (her) in old age; a woman is never fit for independence." (IX.3) - this is where your quote comes from, Andrey.
"Women have no right to study the Vedas, they have no knowledge of religion because they have no right to know the Vedas. Women cannot utter the Veda Mantras, they are as unclean as the untruth." (IX.18 )
A Shudra who insults a twice-born man with gross invective, shall have his tongue cut out; for he is of low origin.(VIII: 270)
If a Shudra speak badly of a Brahmin, an iron nail, ten fingers long, shall be thrust red-hot into his mouth. (VIII: 271)
If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins their duty, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and into his ears. (VIII: 272)
A low-caste man who tries to place himself on the same seat with a man of a high caste, shall be branded on his hip and be banished, or (the king) shall cause his buttock to be gashed. (VIII: 281)
A Brahman may confidently seize the goods of Shudras for Shudra can have no property and his master may take his possessions. (VIII:417)
A man of low caste who makes love to a maiden of the highest caste shall be killed. A man through insolence forcibly contaminates a maiden, two of his fingers shall be instantly cut off, and he shall pay a fine of six hundred panas. A man of equal caste who defiles a willing maiden shall not suffer the amputation of his fingers, but shall pay a fine of two hundred panas. A girl who pollutes another girl must be fined two hundred panas, pay the double of her nuptial) fee and receive ten lashes with a rod. A woman who pollutes a girl shall instantly have her head shaved or two fingers cut off, and be made to ride through the town on a donkey.
Of course, some rules of Manu might suit the BKWSU and might, I agree be a memorial ... like this one, these ones are for Di and Jannisder if they read them. Here are the roots of BKWSU relating;
The service of Brahmins alone is declared to be an excellent occupation for a Shudra; for whatever else besides this he may perform will bear him no fruit. (X:123)
Alternatively,
It is the nature of women to seduce men in this (world); for that reason the wise are never unguarded in (the company of) females. For women are able to lead astray in this world not only a fool but even a learned man and (to make) him a slave of desire and anger. One should not sit in a lonely place with one's mother, sister, or daughter for the senses are powerful, and master even a learned man (V. 213,4,5).

andrey
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Post by andrey » 21 Jun 2007

Dear brother ex-l,

You can notice how strict these laws are. The weaker the king, the weaker laws he'll give. He is afraid to command his subjects. Even in a company, if the director is weak he does not have authority, personnel laugh at him, he submits and cannot tell them anything.

How do you think which will be this authority that has the courage to proclaim such laws and to demand that they are obeyed? Surely these are memorials of Godly laws? But may be we should read them with the code of the "unlimited" meaning. But this unlimited undertsanding is not property of any human being. So i cannot find the deep metaphors, interconnections with the world today and the brahmin world. I can, of course, churn for myself as anyone else can and if i can come up with something interesting may share.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:How do you think which will be this authority that has the courage to proclaim such laws and to demand that they are obeyed? Surely these are memorials of Godly laws?
Not at all.

They are the ignorant tyranny of someone with a sword over someone that does not have a sword. Someone that has the power of life and death over another. Men that can discard and outcaste widow female children purely for financial reasons.

Bear in mind that the wealth and power of these military male rulers that manipulated and controlled an agrarian society to their benefit, and held a power balance with the male Brahmanas, was based on a very large and powerless slave caste.

Surely, my impure bottom ... there is no connection, no memorial, and here is where Gyan or BK attitudes are rooted and cherry picked from.

"All of Bhakti is the memorial of Gyan last Cycle", which is the BK point of view thanks to the 5,000 Year Cycle, is bollocks ... and, thankfully, very few are listening to your god. I hope he improves his act.

"A large part of Gyan is cherry picked and recycled Hindu Bhakti" is closer to the truth.

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 21 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote: etc ----- ***They are the ignorant tyranny of someone *****etc "A large part of Gyan is cherry picked and recycled Hindu Bhakti" is closer to the truth.
And to add to this I could say that the general population worshipping their king are also subject to the 'sanksars' of their past births and so thereby enable the king to proclaim such demeaning laws by not standing up to him and by pretending they are sheep instead of men/women/human etc. "Off with his head if he won't conform, throw her in jail, banish that family to the lower kingdoms etc etc." Its all fear based.
Not much has changed, many members of the BK's and other cult groups included ... and nothing can change until humanity individually realises its own power. And then initialises it and works with it.... I watch Zimbwabians try and define this for themselves every day, but it is yet to happen; every time Mr Robert Mugabe makes an appearance they're all standing there all cheering him on - only because of the armed guards standing amongst them prodding them with a rifle. South Africa not much better off (despite what is shown on TV) as the leading party's politicians know exactly how to manipulate the psyche of the general popluation with a few chosen words and promises. And never deliver.
Hey I just realised that counting sheep in order to get to sleep is not going to work for me no more...

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