I am new to BK world and would like some help too

katie
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Post by katie » 30 Mar 2007

Hi Di,

I am also new to this site but find a have a lot on common with you. I do not really understand the BK's study, have been to a few meetings with my husband on his request but it is not for me ...

Been married for almost 2 yrs, so not long, I find myself in same position. Husband used to practise but stopped the occasional visit, he joined 12yrs ago been going on and off. Now come to the point where not sure if I can go along with it anymore. He had a lot of problems re childhood etc and turned to this for support. A lot of what i read makes sense ...

I do not know what to say; very, very confused and lost by it all ...

He is trying to get me to go with him saying I show no interest in something he feels so deeply about. I said I have no problems if he feels he needs to meetings but I am not interested. He has been so deep and moody since he has not gone, which has been for about a year. I feel he is pushing me away very hard to show his feelings ... makes me think its all my fault.

Sorry going on a bit here and probably not making much sense. Just got so much going on in mind with it all. I do not know if should call it a day with marriage and admit my failure ...

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Post by bansy » 30 Mar 2007

Hello Katie,

You can open up here if you like, or you can PM (private message) others. Share your experiences with others in situations like yours (i.e. with di, Jannisder) if it gets sensitive. So you can help each other along or with general BK issues you can come out in front in the forum.

I am not sure if there is always an easy answer but it is better than to bottle it up. And who knows you may see some spark in the discussions here to make your decisions clearer.

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Welcome Katie

Post by di » 30 Mar 2007

Hi Katie, it takes courage to come here and speak for the first time. Well done! :D

I can honestly say that the people and their help in this forum is the only reason that I have held it together and have the possibility of a future with my hubby.

The emotional blackmail? Yes I know this one all too well. It must be one of those standard 'niceties' implanted in them at the centre. I got the same, and the same words. I am unsupportive and so against something that is so important to him. My fault the marriage was not working anymore. What was my problem? Tried to make me feel guilty that I was causing all these problems unneccessarily. I was imagining things. did not I understand how important this was? And he will still try occassionaly try to get me to go in.

A sure fire method to confuse you, make you feel like you are going mad and 'it is just you' and you are the one with the problem.

It is NOT you. YOU do NOT have the problem. YOU are NOT imagining things. This situation is far worse than you initially think. That doesn't mean all hope is lost.

All I can say is use the forum here as often as you can..whenever I felt there was no way out and my heart sooo heavy, I came here, and got the help I needed. I thought my marriage was over, no possible way for it to work. I hung in there (only from the strength I received here ) and even though this is not over yet, I now have good practical ways of handling the situations and have some reasonable hope of this eventually working out. (He may have to leave first and wake up!!)

Why did your husband leave the BKs in the first place?

I hope eventually he will discover the only unconditional love he is getting is from you, just as Jan, Proy's wife and myself and all the others have shown, not the conditional 'unconditional' love the BKWSU shows.

Jan gives incredible strength and great humour. Aladdin is your best friend. Bansy is the all loving, supportive wise mother and just beautiful.. The men, forgive me for not mentioning you all, show such insight and determination to put things right, to give support. You have definitely come to the right place.

So welcome Katie, you are amongst friends and a family with whom you have a special bond that will help you. It will get better. Hang in there, show the unconditional love, and be prepared to stand up for yourself when he tries to subjugate you. It may get worse first, but it will get better, eventually.

A big sisterly heart felt hug to you and don't hesitate to PM me or anyone else. I worried I was annoying people or a burden, but have been welcomed with open arms and hearts.

Di

Might be nice to start a new thread for Katie??

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Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Mar 2007

katie wrote:Been married for almost 2 yrs, so not long, I find myself in same position. Husband used to practise but stopped the occasional visit, he joined 12yrs ago been going on and off. Now come to the point where not sure if I can go along with it anymore. He had a lot of problems re childhood etc and turned to this for support. A lot of what I read makes sense ... I do not know if should call it a day with marriage and admit my failure.
I think every ex-BK should come with a Government Health Warning.

No, Katie. It is not your fault. This same pattern has existed from day one of the Brahma-kumaris whether it was women leaving men, men leaving woman, parents and children; it is meant to be that way. The bottomline is that BK life is utterly incompatible with an ordinary relationship, especially to a non-BK ... and no, do not get dragged in. If I were to stick my neck out ... and excuse me for being the tough love candidate ... there is a chance that he is attempting to dump you by dumping you on them, in the hope that you become a BK sister, go live in a center, adopt celibacy etc.

He may mean it to the best of his intentions but if he has been in and out for 12 years, he will think what he is doing is deeply wrong and he will be pre-programmed "to serve". Serve does not mean anything particularly good. It just means dragging folk to the center.

Personally, I think the tough childhood or drinking scenarios with others are just distractions for a much deeper problem, the BK programming. IF you are focusing on those issues, you are missing the point. He could just be using that as a "method" to get you to the center. If you are not a BK, you are not a BK. It is that deep. It is not some New Agey, be nice do good thing.

Sex and affection, you will have gathered by now are forbidden. "Happiness is like the droppings of a crow", i.e. it looks big but it just disappears to nothing but a stain on the road. It is stuff like that that is swilling around on the inside. Any individual that has been bitten by BK has a lot of work to do to get around it. Learning about the faked history, all the changes they have made to the philosophy, looking at how they treat people, how mad it all is has helped me.

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Post by jannisder » 31 Mar 2007

Hi Katie,

Welcome on ore rollercoster. Which will be tough but with the help and even answers to questions you can find here on the forum you can strengthen your self.

Know that it is not your failure at all, you are already a winner by keeping your eyes open and stand by your man. The road may be long, and with some bumps on the way as some of us do experiance right now.

By keeping in tough, we help eachother to keep going.

Love Jan.

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Post by bansy » 31 Mar 2007

di wrote:Might be nice to start a new thread for Katie??
Yes, Katie's situation is important to have her own thread to discuss.

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Re: Welcome Katie

Post by proy » 31 Mar 2007

di wrote:I hope eventually he will discover the only unconditional love he is getting is from you, just as Jan, Proy's wife and myself and all the others have shown, not the conditional 'unconditional' love the BKWSU shows.
Yes. As in all these situations, Di, Jan, and now you, Katie, I wish I could speak to the man involved. I would tell him what a good friend told me at the time I was intoxicated with the BK life and "meditation". He is an ex-BK so he knew what he was talking about, and so do I now I am back to being a real person in the world, taking responsibility for my relationships and my family. He said, "Whatever you do never try to make your wife go to the centre if she does not want to go. You will lose her, and nothing the BKs have to offer you will replace the love you have from her." The BKs of course told me the opposite, "Come to the centre, and try to get your wife to follow your lead."

My friend's advice was what I followed. I put my wife first. He was right. They were wrong. If only I could speak to your men, and tell them what a foolish thing it is they are doing. How much you must love them to come to this forum and bare your souls to try to fight to get them back. How much that love of yours is worth holding on to and nurturing. What a fool I was, when I behaved in a similar way to them. I wish I could bring them to their senses. But ex-l is right - some people are BKs somehow, and we have to go through it.
ex-l wrote:If you are not a BK, you are not a BK. It is that deep. It is not some New Agey, be nice do good thing.
The feeling your men are experiencing really does go very deep. It is as if they have found their "real" family in the BKs. They will be let down by the BKs sooner or later, or they will become disillusioned, or just settle into a dry joyless existence. By then where will you be, the women who truly love them? Where will their friends be, and their family? Probably all they will have is us ex-BKs to talk to. Sad. They could have had a full life with a loving wife and family.

How I wish I could give them the same advice my good friend gave me, not once, but over and over again. Do not neglect your wife for the BKs, or you will regret it for the rest of your life.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 31 Mar 2007

The feeling your men are experiencing really does go very deep. It is as if they have found their "real" family in the BKs. They will be let down by the BKs sooner or later, or they will become disillusioned, or just settle into a dry joyless existence. By then where will you be, the women who truly love them?
Ah Proy, so insightful - what an Angel. I too sometimes feel to talk with the men whose female companions happen by this place to share with us. First Jannisder, then Di, now Katie and there may be others whose stories I haven't observed yet. Such great souls. Welcome Katie, you will experience benefit in being on the site. One step of courage ... Unfortunately my record collection is in storage and I cant find the lyric on the internet. However a song entitled Gifted One sung by Bobby Womack comes to mind as an inspiration for us all in these times.

Part of the song remiinds: Gifted One, surely your day will come ... you've got the qualifications to master any situtaion ... when it comes down to choosing ... think winning and not losing Oh Gifted One, surely you day will come. So stay in peace Katie you are truly a Gifted One and we are overjoyed that you have been inspired to come share with us. We, Jah people can make it work, come together, and make it work ... altogether now ... we can make it work.

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Post by katie » 02 Apr 2007

Thanks to everyone for their support. Sorry not got back earlier but cant get on at home as I am not quite sure how he'd take it if he knew I was talking about him ...

Well, I thought I was on my own with this but seems to be a fair few of us around. My weekend went from bad to worse to OK ... this is how it is living with him. I feel like I am walking on egg shells waiting for the next outburst, I mean they are supposed to be peace loving, but how he turns is nasty, evil in fact, like he has been taken over. I know at this stage to make no attempt to try and get him out of it..

This weekend, he went to his meeting on his own. Friday night said to me he would be home by 10, so I said, "OK, I am popping down pub with my daughter as she home from university". So off i go, having a nice time loads of friends out both my brothers etc ... I got home at 12-45, he had lights on in bedroom so went in got changed, He went, "you're late". I went, "i didnt give you a time". He twist it round to it being me all the time. He said, "you said you'd be back at 10". I went, "I did not", so sat in bed reading, got moaned at for reading, so he goes to bed in the spare room. Then my brother texted me to make sure I was OK. He flew back in bedroom, "whose texting you this time of night?" Well, after that I went to sleep.

He had gone down in the night and had a go at my brother who lives in my garage, (long story) whom has been more like a brother to him than his own brother. My brother wanted to knock him out. He said, "I have seen how he talks to you and your kids (well 16, 20, 22) older 2 at uni ... and what it is doing to you ...

So anyway, Sat morning he having go at me again. I am in tears again. He just walks away. I was so angry he never will sit and talk. So I said, "are you gonna talk?". He went, "got nothing to say", so I went, "if thats your attitude, you might as well leave". He went, "I am not going no where".

So i went out. I CANT STAND BEING IN WITH HIM. When being ignored, its mental torture. I went round my other brother's all day, got home at 8, I was feeling cr** all day, like I wasn't there. Shaking uncontrolably. Anyway, he ignored me when I got home, didnt sleep in bed again, he has been off cigarettes for 10 days now, not eating meat now and wont be ever having a drink or setting foot in pub again. He was OK yesterday, after bad start, where he went to leave. I said, "I just want to talk and for you to talk back". He is now going to go to his mornng meetings again as well.

Sorry had to get that off my chest. As for why he stopped going, I do not know. When I met him 3 yrs ago, he wasnt going. He didnt even tell me anything about it until I had known him for 4 months. He was funny and very loving, where has that gone? The first time I knew about it was one night when he started talking bit strange saying I do not know him, wont like him if I really know him etc ...

I said to him last night that its not much of a marriage if he is going to meetings every morning, wont come out with me anymore, wont step in a pub, does it not worry him??

I do not know I am at my wits end after another weekend ruined by him. And this weekend, I have my older 2 home from university for Easter is he going to ruin the time I get with my kids again, like every occasion, where he always seems to have me in tears over something ...

Katie x

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Post by di » 02 Apr 2007

You poor darling. My man went through a stage when he first started going back like that. Turned into a really mean b*** with a very quick temper. I did not have it as hard as you though. Then after a few months he went into this pleasant, spaced out person that didnt hear when you spoke to him, couldn't remember anything. Just as if he was smoking weed 24/7. If yours is giving up smoking, like mine has tried several times over the last year, he would be an even bigger mongrel than normal. Surely he could try some patches or nicorette gum or something to help him.

Then we got to this stage, which personalities change with in seconds. This is the real rollercoaster ride. If you read my post from yesterday. Today he comes home from work, very upset and in despair because he had betrayed me (his words), how my mother would have nothing to do with him if she knew how he was treating her daughter etc etc etc.

Probably tomorrow he'll be going to India ... who knows??? At least for the first time he admited responsibility. I could even mention AA 12 step. I gave him an example, Hi my name is silly man... I am a member of a elitist, doomsday cult and it is threatening my sanity, family and everything I hold dear. He laughed but at least didnt go off his head and was abusive - verbally. Now he is really quiet and not well. Take care of yourself, Al-Anon like Alladin suggests will be very helpful and help make your decision. There are many of us out here sharing the same pain.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Apr 2007

katie wrote:Well, I thought I was on my own with this but seems to be a fair few of us around. My weekend went from bad to worse to OK ... this is how it is living with him. I feel like I am walking on egg shells waiting for the next outburst, I mean they are supposed to be peace loving, but how he turns is nasty, evil in fact, like he has been taken over. I know at this stage to make no attempt to try and get him out of it.
Is it your house and your kids? So, if you boot him out, will you be secure and the BKWSU not get any of the family's money?

A lot of his problems, or behavior patterns here, are clearly not related BK Raja Yoga. Yes, you have the detachment process starting, the disciplines creeping in that will cut him off completely. Giving sorrow is meant to be a big taboo for BKs. There is no way on earth that you should be paying for his suffering or his habits and addictions. What is he, and you, going to do over the sex issue? They are completely anti-sex and affection.

Why did he start going to the BKs in the first place?

To me, this seems like another prime example of the mess the BKWSU is making of other families lives by selling their practise as a cure all for everything, a panacea for peace of mind. It is not.

The guy has issues he needs to sort out. "More Yoga ..." is not going to fix them. He does not sound as though he is in any state to start a yogi life and that failure is going to create conflict within him that he appears to be projecting on you.

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Post by katie » 02 Apr 2007

Hi Again,

Di read that from Alladin, and maybe this is the way to go let him do what he wants to do And I basically start gettting my life in order and taking up interests myself, was down the gym when I first met him, but he wasnt to happy with me doing that ... might just go back !!

ex-l. Yes, it is my house and my kids. He has one son that is almost 19. He stopped seeing him when he was 2, and only got back in touch when he was 13, that should of have rung warning bells there.

My house is my house he is not on the mortgage, although he did offer to sell his flat and come on my mortgage last year, but I refused after discussing it with my son. I do not think he can touch anything of mine ...

As for the sex thing, it was bought up once and I told him i am not willing to live like that. He enjoys it too much at the moment, but who knows, sometimes he can be very hard and not come near me for days. I mean not even a hug, which I need but no matter how many times I tell him, he doesnt listen..

He has had a lot of past issue stemming back to childhood, but still going on with other relationships he has been in. I know he is very insecure at times, but wont admit it. Its like he cant show his feelings at all ... He started going about 12 years ago, I think he got given a book. He was at a really low point in his life and they gave him something to strive for. He said he has always known there was more to life etc etc ...Yeh, do not we all hope that there is something more? But I want to enjoy this one as best as I can and make sure I see my kids, OK ...

I know he has many issues and I have always really tried and made excuses for him. Now my excuses are running a bit thin, as other people are seeing the real him and not liking it. I feel he would be more than happy on his own and often do not feel loved by him ... maybe after a while he would realise what he has given up. I do not know!! So confusing and its doing my head in, making me ill with the worry of it all >>

Katie

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Post by jannisder » 02 Apr 2007

Dear Katie

Now you know what I mean by roller coaster. One moment everything looks OK and go slowly up hill, the next minute it is on the top and drops down with an undescribable scary speed, to finally go slowly up again ...

That is the situation here. How do I cope? To show him the good things of this lokik life. Just to give him a home, a good friend and lots of fun. I did the 7 day course and the advanced course just to get to know what is going on in site the centre. They gave me Dristhi, Toli, and a meal. They do not see me as a devil but as a Sister ... because they do not know what I am up to.

In the meantime I am doing what I have to do. I write letters, collect documents and articles and sent them to ... see PM. You know ... what goes around will come around. I live this double life now but will not be the one to let him down and scare him off. I let others do that for me.

For the first time he read a post from Abrahma Kumar, that hit him hard (in the good sense of the word) ... I was so happy and he even took it with him to read it again. That is all I do. I leave posts and articles lying around for him to see and just wait.

Right now he is doing all kinds of lokik (hate the word) things that make him feel good and I stimulate that to give him all the attention he needs to get even more attracted to it. We hardly talk BK things. Only when he is seeing something (to me) stupid I react and he knows I will. So he is doing more service on me to turn me into a good BK Sister, that means that he is spending more time with me ... so I can do my service on him!!!

Although we do agree on a lot of things (he is a good nice man) his BK thoughts are to me just not done. I do not discuss it with him because I am wrong anyway but I give him painful stabs and change the subject to lokik things to get him confused. It will stay in his mind so he will think about it. That works but goes slow slow slow ...

After a day together I am very tired and my energy is completely drained out. On this forum I load up my battery, do some more design on BKWSU danger alert poster for an email chain and move one to the next day, never know what it will bring me. Sometimes I get all upset, or he gets all upset. We are going down hill on the roller coaster.

Also my crying days are over, at night I cry.
Love Jan

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Post by mr green » 02 Apr 2007

Hi Katie

I don't post here anymore, except all the time :lol:

It is one of the only things I have left in my life that means something. You see I was a fully surrendered member, like the ones you see wearing white clothes and a funny badge (in fact, I did just that!). Reason I am telling you this is to reiterate what the very intelligent Di said.

It is not you. This is far deeper and more serious than you can possibly imagine. It is sickening how deep this stuff penetrates people's psych.

I left in horrible circumstances 4 years ago and I am still battling suicidal tendencies at least once a week. I just cannot let go. I cannot move on, I have niether the money nor the ability to heal myself ... I am f*cked

Your man, I am sure, is not in as deep as me and will not be as damaged but I want you to understand he is deeply affected by this on a FUNDAMENTAL level. Jeeps, I am not trying to scare you but ... you are not mad.

I really feel for you people. You seem so decent and ordinary (a good thing in my book). I really wish you the best and seeing as I seem to be not able to stop posting here, perhaps I can help people like you. I am very experienced with the BKs especially their inner levels.

I went to see an old friend of mine today who is still a BK. After chatting to her about how the whole history of the organisation has been fabricated, she politely asked me to stop trying to save her. At that moment I felt sad and knew I couldn't help her anymore ... only she can do that now.

Lots of love

Mr Green

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Apr 2007

Mr Green wrote:I went to see an old friend of mine today who is still a BK. After chatting to her about how the whole history of the organisation has been fabricated, she politely asked me to stop trying to save her. At that moment I felt sad and knew I couldn't help her anymore ... only she can do that now.
Astounding, is not it! One of the wives here mention he partner saying, "OK, so the BKs made a few slip ups" ... !!!

How do we analyse or equate this shift in conscious, this utter denial? The leadership must be so secure in their knowledge, that whatever comes along, they know that a large proportion of their followers will still follow them. Addicts to their drug? Is it the fear of facing all the things the BKs have told them such as Destruction coming? Was their ordinary life so awful before BK?

Whether there is a god or spirit entity in BK or not, I am leaning more and more towards the hypnosis theory. (Personally, I go for hypnosis plus spookery hypothesis). "You are feeling very, very peaceful ... Listen to my voice ... you will believe everything that I tell you ... you will do what I tell you ... think what I tell you ...". Frankly, whether this spook in BK is just Lekhraj Kirpalani, or from somewhere else, I reckon he is racking up a load of bad karma for himself but hoodwinking people.

I remember myself though when I first got in, someone giving me a book on Millenarianist (End of the World) cults ... just like every one of them, I was so sure that I was right and it was all true this time. It was as though I was on drugs.

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