I am new to BK world and would like some help too

di
Friends and family of
Posts: 137
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Australia

Getting the cult out of the individual

Post by di » 12 May 2007

Katie, I am so sorry. Know that I am reaching out to you. Stay strong, you can do it.

ex-l, spot on. Your description of how it feels is just too true, and they still just give enough to keep you hanging on by a thread. (Or so they think). It is a power game and very effective. Something I don't think they would have thought up on their own initiative.

Katie, ex-l once said to me, "it is not getting the individual out of the cult, but getting the cult out of the individual". Nothing could be truer. I am just glad you were spared the added agony of the celibacy issue. It is a total rejection of who you are and what you have given. You are made to feel like you are the mistress and betraying his wife. (Once again thanks ex-l, so truly put) The sword is not lust, but the stabbing of your heart. It is enough to send you over the edge.

Mr Green, I am in Newcastle, east coast Oz. Once not too much of a problem, but in the last 5 months with the new centre head, lethal. There goes any pretense of who I am but I have nothing to hide and am not ashamed. The responsibility lies where it falls. I hope they read this and feel exposed.

Take care Katie, we are here.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Deadly virii

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 May 2007

di wrote:Mr Green, I am in Newcastle, east coast Oz. Once not too much of a problem, but in the last 5 months with the new centre head, lethal.
This is what they do in approximation.

Some white New Age type is inspired to go out starts a new center. They get it going build up a client base of followers. It might wobble a bit or the whities leave, so they send in an Indian. Increasingly these Indian women are coming in as preformed loyal to the SS Yoga machines (my words, I am short of time).

They get them when they are teen-agers, they take their dowries for keep and to make sure the parents are not just dumping daughters on them, the junior sisters is treated like **** at the bottom of the pecking order and has to work/slave her way up the tree, old saris to new saris, until she is sent off to her own center. There is no going back for those women, nor room for personal feelings, little to no experience of the world outside the organization. They have burnt their bridges.

Now, I do not know if yours falls into this bracket nor how widespread this is but I can back up my statements with comment from papers and reports. What this has to do with spirituality, I have not a clue.

Often is it Western brothers that go out and establish new countries and centers, once they have, they are usurped by some, generally but not alway Indian sister parachuted in from BK HQ. Now do you two feel so bad about your experiences. You have options and alternatives in your life. They do not. Begging or prostitution. Very unlikely that they could ever marry. Little to no opportunity of a casual relationship.

You ought remember that for a poor to average Indian girl, the BKWSU can be a pretty good deal as long as they can shut off or channel the sex, love and emotions part. How they manage, I have no idea. 20 words or less ... give me some leaway and someone else fill in please.

Lesson 2;
  • You cant get the cult out of the person, so get the person out of your life.
... and once you feel stronger, please come back and help up contain its expansion until it can be encouraged to resolve certain issues it has.

User avatar
proy
ex-BK
Posts: 489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Started as BK became ex-BK here

Re: Another BK Divorce

Post by proy » 12 May 2007

ex-l wrote:But just see it for what it is. A bunch of women stealing other women's men. A bunch of celibates whose god will not let them procreate, stealing other families' children to look after them financially. They came to this country with nothing. Now they have first class air tickets, big houses, a temple, a country mansion, free laborers and people to drive them around in Mercedes. They have never actually gone out to work because in the old days, Dada Kirpalani paid for everything. Yet, they are pure and you are impure. They are knowledgeful, you are ignorant. They are going off to become Kings and Queens in the Golden Age, you are going to be crushed at Destruction and miss out on heaven on earth. That literally is essence of their teachings and what your man is buying into. He is giving them his soul for a little bit of their cake.
I think this description should be put on its own page as a warning to others. I hope all you women keep on posting here, so that others will be forewarned. It must be very difficult for you to write about what is happening to you. Remember that by doing so, and by "Naming and Shaming" the BK centres that are doing this, as well as the BKWSU itself, you are giving out the warning to other women (and men).

I know this web site is read by the SS, so they must be aware of the damage they are doing. Have they no hearts at all? I wish BKs were less 'incognito'. Maybe if they always dressed up in whites and badges then people would have some idea what they are letting themselves in for. After all, one would not start a relationship with someone wearing a nun's habit or a priest's robes without thinking hard and knowing what one is doing. It is the base sneakiness of the BKWSU that is so vile.

If they just took the single step of being open about their essential teachings it would be a huge step in the right direction. Perhaps then we would not have to be clearing up the emotional carnage they leave behind them. If it can be cleared up. Does a broken family ever mend? The BKs believe in karma. They must have some payback to do - big time.

katie
Friends and family of
Posts: 22
Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by katie » 13 May 2007

Hi again,

feel slightly stronger today. Been bit of bad day but have got through it and chatted to a lot of friends and family about the situation. They all say the same, "you cant carry on with it all ...".

As update with the situation, I had few text messages from my husband today, is that all my marriage is worth text message??

He seems to dwell in the past of things that have happened, saying that how can we have a marriage with all the sh** going on. But this is family life with teenagers to contend with. I deal with that as i see fit but it is in the past. Even to the point were over a year ago I hit him. Not proud of it but he had been in a zombie state for a week ignoring me etc, locked me out of my own home. So, yes, I slapped him. Trying to snap him out of it, but boy have i had that thrown in my face time and time again. But he seems to forget the things he has done to me, like calling me a c**t or leaving me, calling me a evil person. I have told him not to text me anymore as need to get my head together. He made his choice by leaving me to get on with it. He says OK, then 2 hours later I get more texts. It does my head in as OK no i shoud move on with life but love him and miss him like crazy.

So if he did come back, how long would it be good again for? A few weeks then somethings triggers it of again. AM I wiling to go back to that again? So hard to decide ... I want to say enough is enough but I do not know if can.

xx

di
Friends and family of
Posts: 137
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Australia

Post by di » 13 May 2007

I came to a big realisation today, unless they renounce the BKs as they have renounced their families (that means US), it will never change.

They will keep you hanging on by just a thread. Do just enough to keep you hoping because they know how much we love them. We are their comfort, their safety net just in case it does all go wrong for them. Mine is being all nice. He knew he went too far (again). So little snippets of affection, hugs and smiles, even makes me a cuppa now and then. This time I am not falling for it. I know it is not genuine and from the heart. It is bourne out of guilt and deception. At the moment I have to go along with this, and it is so tempting, you want to believe what they are saying so much, because you two were so good together, but the reality is different.

Katie this nightmare has been going on for 12 months here. 6 months ago it was intolerable, and for the last 3 to 4 months pure hell. It will not end until you end it or are happy to live the life of giving your all in order to receive nothing and be treated with contempt. As I said, you haven't got to the celibacy stage yet. That is pure torture. You think you feel bad now. The worse is yet to come. And it is not just about sex. Its what they do to detach from you, so they wont want you.

Ex-I said it all
You cant get the cult out of the person, so get the person out of your life.
The fact is, to believe anything else is a fairytale because what we are living we cannot get our minds or hearts around. None of it makes sense. Our choice is simple, get on with our lives or be prepared to be "the lokik" that will always come last in their lives. I know what mine is, else i will go insane. There is no half-way house, just a game to keep us on tap, I would describe it as a power game, they feel great. While ever we enable and support them to do this to us, they will continue to do so. They have no reason to wish to change.

I surprised him on the computer. He was looking at places for lease. Obviously thinking of moving out. I wonder when he was going to inform me. Once again use me for his convienence till he was ready. So you tell me what the hugs and kisses and telling me I meant something to him was all about? This is the reality of a living with a BK pawn.

Sorry luv, these are my views and my experience, and i cannot afford to be drawn into this and deceived again. It will not change here unless he revokes the BKs and gets therapy. And we all know he wont. Answer ---- get out.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 13 May 2007

Both of you have to remember that I speak as "one of them". Someone who has been on the inside where they are. I can speak like them but without, I hope, "passing the virus" on. I feel compassionate for both of you. You and him. I know how it feels. I do not think they can renouce it, certainly not if they are presented with a demand to renounce it. It will just go underground and the SS will tell them to be "Yoga-Yukt" or "Yukti-yuk" which means in your language, think of their Baba all the time and be sneaky.

This thing goes so deep. It is not like just some other church or football club but, yes, I also agree with Joel further up the thread that what you present to us is also about personal problems and the need for personal growth that have nothing to do with the BKWSU.

We are not professional counsellors. All we can do is translate what BK means into plain enough English and give you our personal, "statistical", experiences because we have either been in such a sitation, or watched many such situations, from the BK point of view. As mr green points out.

I posted an article in the Abuse and Recovery section called "Dispelling the Myths by Dr Paul R Martin" that we as ex-BKs have to work on. "Myth #1: Ex-Cult Members Do Not Have Psychological Problems. Their Problems Are Wholly Spiritual". Cult and Ex-Cult Members do have psychological problems. I, personally, consider that the BKWSU should be FAR more careful in accepting and encouraging vulnerable students but the BKWSU thrives off fresh blood.

What does your husband want? Does he want in or out of the relationship? I do not think that you have told us. Really he should come on this forum and discuss his problems.
  • As a BK, it would be much better for him to be out and it be over. Complete liberation from your impurity and worldliness.
    As a BK, his path is going in the opposite direction to yours and it.
    As a BK, he is accepting becoming a full-time public face, an example, an advertisement for the organization.
What we can say as ex-s or BKs is that;
  • He cant have both.
    He cant have you being what you do not want to be, his first convert. It does not work like that. If you are not a Brahmin soul, no work in the world will make you one.
    He can have sex and be a yogi. It will destroy him. It is utterly contradictory to the lifestyle. "Not eating onions and garlic" comes way down the list!
It may be that for him the couple in the center represent a perfect couple and a perfect family that he has never had, and that is additionally appealling to him. Its unlikely that they are and rest assured that there are high prices to be paid as a BK. If one is on the high, it feels great. Teaching the classes makes you feel important and is a buzz. But if it is not for you Katie, then what you are going to end up with is a very distant and weird lodger who wont eat the food you or your family cooks (it is against the rules too).

I can imagine the state of mind he is in. He must be torn in half inside if he know what Gyan is really all about. It is far better for him if he goes all the way in.

If you do not know what the Knowledge is all about and want to know how and what they teach, it is all here; 7 Days Course or here, Teacher Training Manual.

The BKWSU is so wrong to disguise BK Raja Yoga as a some "Lifestyle Accessory" you can tune into and tune out of.

di
Friends and family of
Posts: 137
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: Australia

Post by di » 13 May 2007

Dear Katie,

my last post was describing MY experiences and my situation and ultimately what I have to do. You and your husband are different people, and I am not a counsellor. You do hear of situations where the person involved has given up the cult in preference to leaving their family. I can only say what is happening here in my home.

He finally told me he loves me but not enough to give up what he is doing and he admits he cannot have both. He also admits that now he practises dis-associating himself from me, and because he is near me it makes it more difficult for him and therefore we must part company. I am sorry if I sounded like I was telling you what to do. I don't mean to, but as I am struggling with what is happening I tend not to put things across as clearly as I would like to.

I really hope things work out for you, and know that sometimes, we just have to try everything before we come to a conclusion. The information that we have been given here at least gives us the nuts and bolts truth of what goes on. The pain sort of numbs after a while, and at times is bearable. I know I have been missing my husband for a while now, even though physically here, emotionally and mentally he has been gone for a while and has been working hard at it. I know, there are no words to describe this, I just hope and pray your situation turns out differently. Take care Katie.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 13 May 2007

For me, I just try to put everything on the table, decode the arcane language of the BKWSU, and let the individuals decide.

I think it is unfair for one individual, the spouse of a BKWSU member, to go up against their partner AND the local BK center-in-charge AND the organization behind them. It is not a fair fight.

I am also conscious that individuals; husband and wives, children and parents, use the BKWSU as a stick to beat each other with ... and the fight is often about something else altogether. Something that they have imported into the BKWSU with them.

Personally, I don't like conflict in relationships and prefer/advise to just move away from it. Life is too short and too hard "out there" to want to have more conflict "in here", in your home or your heart.

If someone asks me the outright question, "should I live with or be married to a BKWSU?" My honest answer ... without knowing anything at all about any details ... is NO. Run a thousand miles. Don't waste any time. However hard it hurts, it will be better to be apart from them. Better for you and better for them. If you "have karma" with them, get an injunction keeping them away, and pay it off somewhere and some when else.

There are far better, more practical and more charities to support. And if you want a relationship with God, just go out and do good in your own life. If you do, he will come to you in a respectful manner, in way that you can accept. Remember, "God" only goes to visit the BKs for part of 8 or 10 days a year, so there is plenty other time for Him to be elsewhere.

Whether you are the 'goodie' or the 'baddie' ... it does not bother me. I say 'defend yourself', because if you go into a relationship with the BKWSU, you will no longer be fighting or relating 'one against one'. It will be 'one against many'. And, in my opinion, that many wants what you have right into the core of your being.

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Post by abrahma kumar » 13 May 2007

Hi Katie, am wishing you all the best.

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

How confused people drive you nuts

Post by alladin » 14 May 2007

Hi Katie and whoever is dealing with BK partners:

there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING , more painful and harmful to the self than dealing and living with people who don't know what they want in their lives.

People who change their minds constantly, who play mind games, who manipulate you knowing you love them, who take you for granted because you've been there for them; and addicts. Especially people who call you into their lives to get help overcome their pains and addictions, and the next minute they kick you in the face and claim their right to enjoy their addiction or their habit longer.

So, I am recalling experiences with drug addicts and alcholics, but now I see many similarities in the addictions members have to the BK organization and consequent their dependency to it. So, those who still go to the centers and get influenced by SS and center-in-charges, may get wrong counselling and be pulled away from "normal life" and partners\families.

The condition of those who are exiting, is also a dangerous one because it can be a one step out and forward, 2 steps back. By getting involved, even watching that movement, or waiting for them to make up their minds, you may lose yours.

So, ex-l, I am totally with you when you suggest to stay out of trouble. Loving the self first is a great lesson, maybe possible to learn only after many failures, and only our stability can help others anyway.

Good wishes to all

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Re: how confused people drive u nuts

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 May 2007

alladin wrote:And the condition of those who are exiting, is also a dangerous one because it can be a one step out and forward and 2 steps back and by getting involved or even watching that movement or waiting for them to make up their minds, u may loose yours. So, ex L I am totally with u when u suggest to stay out of trouble. Loving the self first is a great lesson, maybe possible to learn only after many failures, and only our stability can help others anyway.Good wishes to all
Thanks. The possible exiting picture that Alladin draws does bear some thinking about as I can testify from my own experience. This personal yo-yo-ing might even be precisely reflective of the flip-flopping that the BKWSU organisation itself does with regards to much of its dealings with the world; however on a one-on-one up-close and personal basis this fluctuation is unhealthy for all involved (as alladin says).

It seems as if the exiter needs to maintain stability when beset by these euphoric rises and downturns in mood. But stability in which posture? The one that sees her/him walking fearlessly out of the BKWSU without a single look backwards? Or the one that is made out of the fear that, if exiting terminates our links with God, then it (exiting) ought to be avoided at all costs as that would be to cancel one's Godly fortune? Maybe an exiter more that anyone else needs to come to truly understand his/her personal connection with the Supreme. Of course I do not think that this can be a magical grasping that suddenly envelopes one.

Maybe some of us retreat into the BKWSU because of a 'particular personal delusion?' by which we come to believe that with the BKWSU we will definitely get 'reformed' so as to comply with a set of rules (Shrimat) that if followed would lead us to the type of experience of life in which we are free of our various 'guilt-trips' (some of us). A bit like a promise to be lifted out of chaos into order. And the BKWSU offering-up that Ever Perfect One Himself (GOD) as the pilot of our boat across from one-side (hellish life) to the other (spiritually blissful life) may be a powerful lure - even at the time of exiting - because all one needs to do is see and follow the signals. The exiter may need to re-learn the art of listening to the Heart. But if this practice has not been part of the exiter's relationship with self then the interactions with others whilst in the satge of exiting can both an unbound joy and bitter pain at one and the same time.

But how to love when one may have never ever truly loved, or been loved before, in one's life? Who is the Teacher of this love? Drama or God? Some fellow soul we meet on this journey of life?

And while we acknowledge the need to learn that art of love ought we to adopt a posture in which we 'love' none other than God? (whatever that means). Is alladin's stay out of trouble yukti to be highlighted in bold italics?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests