A common link amongst the women

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joel
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Re: Not listening

Post by joel » 03 Apr 2007

proy wrote:Now you are discovering what the prevailing attitude is amongst the BKs. They think they are right and everybody else is wrong, so why should they listen to you.
It's amazing to think about. Once a person is certain of their identity as immortal soul, then there can be no question about it. I am a peaceful soul, knowledgeful soul, loveful soul, etc. etc. Car and driver. Mind-intellect-sansakaras. Karma, rebirth.

By the time the person gets this far, they arrive at absolute unshakeable certainty.(*note) I mean, how could it be wrong that I am a soul?? This is the rock bottom truth for the BKs. God just happens to be a slightly different soul with a different role. Accept soul and you pretty much accept God described by BKs as Supreme Soul.

Now if the BKs are the only people in the whole wide world who can describe in precise language the soul and God, perhaps they are right about body consciousness, the nature of vice and evil, the benefits of lactovegetarian diet, the hellish torturing swords of lust and anger, the debilitating bonds of attachment.

From one seed (Now I know who I really am!) a whole tree of conditioning and even brainwashing grows. So if I know the secret of the ages, and you don't know and don't believe, that kind of invalidates any claim you might have to spiritual knowledge, or any sense or wisdom at all in my eyes.

BKs tend to argue (sorry discuss) a lot about their philosophy (which they call knowledge) because that is one of the bases for how they establish their pecking order. If you are ignorant, your every action is sinful, and you don't even know it.

(*note) A really amazing faith, that for example enabled me to detach enough to get some fillings done without novocaine. I did not notice that it did not teach me how to play, enjoy and love. After all, I could play with other BKs, and love and enjoy the BK way.

So I would like to underscore just how deeply this concept of soul can invade the person's sense of self. Lucky BKs accept this concept, yet are able to ignore other expectations that go along with it. For unlikely ones its like getting raped. More than a few have committed suicide, many many of us have (and still do) consider doing so.

ex-l asks if this is hypnosis. Perhaps, but not necessarily different that is found in other cults. After all, believers of other cults have just as strong faith, even if the other group's 'knowledge' is not as thrilling to BKs as their own. And that faith couples into all the weird group coercion, regardless. Even if the BK knowledge is 'right' it doesn't seem to liberate all BKs, or in fact any of the fringe or alternative-sect believers from the challenges of life. It only seems so when you're in the 'supportive' environment of the group.

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Post by proy » 03 Apr 2007

katie wrote:I`m afraid a lot of what is said on this site is still very beyond me, I do not understand it all..
That is not surprising, it is a very weird and arcane world, with its own language. Please just ask if there is anything you need explained.

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Post by katie » 03 Apr 2007

Now there's a question ??

What is it I want to know, cant really answer that as just cant get my head wrapped round all of it ... He has tried to expain things to me but to be honest it does bore me to tears, not showing any disrespect to anyone this is just my views ... why would I want to go sit in with bunch of people I do not really know if I feel down ??

I would rather have the comfort of my family or friends. He cant see this as I said to him once when they was trying to get me to go to meeting on friday night, I went, "No I got better things to do on Friday night". Well, anything would be better in my eyes, watching the washing going round in the machine for instance !!!

What is expected of me? He still wants sex, so I am not totally useless yet!!! I dread going home. Its my house, yet I do not want to be there ... I feel like he is trying to get me soo down that I will give in, if you know what I mean !!!

Its hard to keep up a front in front of other people, i.e. my kids, family etc ...

Katie

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Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Apr 2007

katie wrote:What is expected of me? He still wants sex, so I am not totally useless yet !!! I dread going home. Its my house, yet I do not want to be there ... I feel like he is trying to get me soo down that I will give in, if you know what I mean !!!
Katie

what do you want out of this situation right now? I can tell you what I think but it is what you want that is going to govern this situation.

You cant have your partner back "as he was". (In fact, he was always this, he just hid it from you to get what he wanted). You cant take the Raja Yoga out of him, so how do you want your life to be? I am sure it is very convenient for him to have you provide a home, food and be his sex-doll (for as long as it lasts).

Its funny for us "ex-BKs" because reading about your experience, this guy is not even a proper BK yet. He is no where near being in ANY POSITION WHATSOEVER to teach or promote Raja Yoga. And he is already causing you problems! What is meant to be a "path of liberation" is being used as a club to beat you over the head.

We can short circuit many months or years of upset for you by taking your through or explaining what he is saying, and what will happen next. Or we can have a few weeks of fun at the expense of the insensitive and dishonest meddlers down the local Brahma-kumaris Raja Yoga center ... ;-). I mean this, joining BK Raja Yoga is not like joining the local church group. It is not something that one can switch off and have "over there" once a week. it is right at the core of the in dividual 24/7.

Instead, you can offer him "thoughts for the day". These are word for word quotes from God's messages which he will know, called "The Murlis";
  • "Never causes anyone sorrow. Within that, the number-one sorrow is the sword of lust."

    "If you become lustful or angry, it means you have defamed the Satguru. Then, you won’t be able to claim a status."

    "Everything is about vice, that is, you must not be stripped. You mustn’t burn in the fire of lust."

    "There should be no evil spirits of lust, anger, greed or attachment. Continue to look in the mirror of your heart: Am I worthy to marry Lakshmi?"

    "You know that at this time all are thorns. Thorns prick you. The Father says: They all kill one another with the sword of lust. They do not know that using the sword of lust is violence."

    "Some are slapped by the evil spirit of lust, some by the evil spirit of anger and others by the evil spirit of attachment. They then completely fall."

    "The Father says: The vice of lust that you consider to be your friend is a very big enemy. There are many who become friends of that. The Father issues an ordinance: You have to conquer that. You can explain that the Father says: Lust is the greatest enemy."
So this is what Raja Yoga and its followers have become today ...

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Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Apr 2007

What is expected of me? He still wants sex, so I am not totally useless yet !!!
Interesting. So much for the God's versions in BKs Murli telling us of the way that Draupadi was stripped. All these Draupadis with no-where to turn to!

Which human being in their right mind would join an organisation after experiencing mental, verbal or physical abuse at the hands of one of a family members; especially a supposedly most beloved loved family member? Imagine the tremendous psychological strain of living this way. Under these circumstanes is more Yoga really the answer? Well it might be but ... Just so that you girls/boys know this:

As part of the pilgrimage to Madhuban every student ought to have filled in a form that asks a number of question: Do you bathe in Gyan everyday? (go to morning class for Murli that is); To what perecentage have you conquered anger? (or some such question about the student's efforts to conquer that vice); and lastly have you been practising celibacy for at least 8 months?? Any BK can confirm the existence of this form and the question I have selectively remembered. I might have the number of months wrong on the celibacy question but once completed the form is signed by a suitably sanctioned BKWSU represented.

So girls/boys if you see your partner carting themself on that Pilgrimage while you know that you have been fully co-operative or him/her not shy in coming forward to initiate ... I do not leave that last sentence trailing as a way to denote a sinister threat but as a gap in which one can think for themselves; whether male or female.

These are tricky issues and if there is anyone out there who needs help in dealing with these or related matters please seriously consider professional assistance. Talk to someone.

Yesterday i had to finally express the personal opinion that there comes a time when as bystanders we may just have to recognise all of this as the playing out of Karmic accounts that soul's have with each other. But that standard BK fallbaclk position rings hollow for me unless one has tried all else. Unless you have tried to assess what is important to you and to find the means to act on that personal duty of care that each of has for the body, mind and soul. Yes, of course, there is Karma but how to get the self strong and resourceful enough to break out of these patterns and into a more fulfilling lifestyle.

Karma: The law of action and reaction governing ALL actions irregardless whther positive or negative.

I hope that my feedback in the post did not reinforce any gender stereotype.

---------

Peace

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Post by mr green » 03 Apr 2007

Hey, I get home and find the ladies are discussing whether to molest me or not!!!!!!!!! :lol:

I'll give you a seven day course you won't forget :wink:.

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Post by proy » 03 Apr 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:As part of the pilgrimage to Madhuban every student ought to have filled in a form that asks a number of question: Do you bathe in Gyan everyday (go to morning class for Murli that is); To what perecentage have you conquered anger (or some such question about the student's efforts to conquer that vice); and lastly have you been practising celibacy for at least 8 months? Any BK can confirm the existence of this form and the question I have selectively remembered. I might have the number of months wrong on the celibacy question but once completed the form is signed by a suitably sanctioned BKWSU represented.
Eight months for celibacy is correct. The other question is, "How long have you been free from anger?" At the bottom of the form it says, " BKs who have been celibate for 8 months and following a pure diet will be welcomed at Madhuban." Then the sister in charge of the centre has to sign it as well as your man.

So your man will be lying on his form then? Actually, as ex-l said, he is not really a BK. It is all a lie he is telling you. Is he telling lies to the sisters at the centre? Maybe he is. I wonder if any of the sisters at the centre like to be called bad names by him? Tell him to get real. You know some real BKs and ex-BKs now, and his act is not fooling us.

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Post by bansy » 03 Apr 2007

Hey Mr Green,

Well you know that frying pan I had. I've also now got a heavy duty wok. I'll molest you with that if you like :P.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Apr 2007

Thanks proy. I would like to add again - because things do get misconstrued. I am NOT sitting at my pc screen in judgement of anyone. I rather change because of love for my well-being than out of hatred for the person who caused that pain. I rather change because of love for the being that my efforts can emerge rather than out of hatred for the person that my actions reveal me to be. Think Positively.

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Post by joel » 03 Apr 2007

Mr Green wrote:hey I get home and find the ladies are discussing whether to molest me or not!!!!!!!!! :lol: I'll give you a seven day course you won't forget :wink:
You've got the wit, and plenty gals are charmed by a dark brooding manner. Enjoy it, because I don't think you'll be alone much longer. See how they're already crowding close! What? Is that a mirror on your shoe??

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Post by di » 03 Apr 2007

Mmmmm, maybe I should take my partner's advice and do the 7 day course after all :wink: Its the flashing eyes, you know. Bansy, bring the wok over here please, I can think of a much better use, and the frypan too.

He has not gone to meditation for the last 2 times, and there has been no more talk of this retreat over Easter. In fact, not a word has been spoken at all about any of this for 2 days since i told him he had to make a choice. He even took the clothes of the line yesterday.....ex_I, did you sent him your post and devious plans about Mr Green?? Nothing like getting a man to act if not out of possiveness. We will see were this goes. But guess what... I am over it. Twice bitten and all that, I am very wary and don't have my hopes up. Maybe Katie might find him an improvement on what she has now? I could send him over....Mine at least is more polite though full of the BK arrogance that is so obnoxious. Ego is right. Take care, good luck Katie, Jan what are you up to now? Are you still plotting and planning the BK downfall and working undercover?

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Re: we deserve at some stage a happy end

Post by jannisder » 04 Apr 2007

alladin wrote:Sounds like a happy end. If you make a party, are we all invited? We can take good vibes, music, flowers and fruits. Yes, cut the shackles of old and painted as new dogmas. I cut yours, you cut mine, when cannot do it totally on our own. We all have to visualize and use the power of our imagination and thinking more and try to make difficult things, easy, don't we?
There must be a mountain somewere were we can all get together, lets see one's a year??? Be cool don't you all make fall me off my chair :lol: ... it looks stupid!

Jan

And, yes ex-I, we both do not eat dead animals.
di wrote: Jan what are you up to now? Are you still plotting and planning the BK downfall and working undercover?
Somebody has to do it!!!! Got good response from overseas, government thing ... blah blah blah.

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Post by paulkershaw » 04 Apr 2007

katie wrote:What is it I want to know, cant really answer that as just cant get my head wrapped round all of it ... He has tried to expain things to me but to be honest it does bore me to tears, not showing any disrespect to anyone this is just my views ... why would I want to go sit in with bunch of people I do not really know if I feel down ??
With humility I'd like to add my viewpoint here and hope to transfer my thoughts into writing with enough clarity:

What you have written here goes to show that he has totally different needs than you do. And it's these needs that are pulling him in to the Bk system. You may have read elsewhere on this site/forum that the BKWSU engages or attracts people who have specific needs or lack of certain emotional and/or mental values or expereinces.

You don't have these 'things' missing in your life, he does. And now because his 'inner needs' are being met (albeit for the time being) he'll keep being pulled in. You cannot provide these needs for him at all and he'll be seeing you as the enemy the more you try to stop or 'trick' him from going to the local centre. Until he reaches the point that he realises that he's got something missing within himself, even if he's realised this sub-consciously, he also feels that its only God that can fix it and bring back whatever's missing.

He's looking for a pathway back to acceptance. And becasue he's now having 'Godly' experiences, and being fed in Godly fashion, its all go for him. Deep down he's wanting to heal and be more complete, which in itself is an awesome realisation, he's just trying to fix it in his 'lack of' victim consciousness probably without even realising it.

I am often a proponent of throwing the fish to the sea but this your life and relationship. I could perhaps be straightforward enough to say to you, that you really need to look after yourself a lot more, because he certainly won't be. Not for the time being anyway and not until he realises that he's responsible for his own happiness and that he could choose to meditate and have 'Yoga' at home with you, on the beach, in a garden etc ... and that his connection with God is constant and spiritual - in his own special and unique way. Maybe you could ask him why he cannot express himself spiritually within your own home and relationship and don't be surprised when he answers its because of you or the environment.

Hope to have added some insight for you. In the meantime, take care of You and please do share whatever you need to share with anyone you care to, at any time. We hear you.

XX

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Post by katie » 04 Apr 2007

Hi,

At the moment I know that he is not a proper BK, for whatever that is. I am worried that it is going to end up that way,

Before I have said about doing it at home. He always says that he needs to be there, its peaceful. No they are the only one's he can talk to, who understand what he believes in?? Deep down he has a load of emotional baggage that still rears its ugly head from time to time.

He hasn't taken to the morning sessions yet, although he told me he was going. I am not going to stop him. I am just sitting back at the moment and observing. See if he either snaps out of it again, or that he will get totally commited. I am afraid if it is the later, then I will bow out gracefully as its not what I want out of life. So be it selfish but I went into this relationship blind to this 3rd party that I am competing with. I have dealt with being cheated on with other women but not the main man!

do not get me wrong, I love him and always will. He is not the person I fell in love with and married. I do not know if he ever will get that person back. I have got to start looking after me and my kids. We are all walking on egg shells around him. It doesnt feel like home anymore ...

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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Apr 2007

Great observations paulkershaw that stimulated much positive thought. I wil have a little natter in another place. Thanks, the forum is great.

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