A common link amongst the women

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Jun 2007

paulkershaw wrote:In fact, it was great yesterday feeling such, I finished a new massage course yesterday and was sprawled out on a table virtually butt-naked and really relaxed in front of a room full of people, and not caring one iota at all
This brought back to me how very uncomfortable I felt with even my own naked body post-Gyan. It took a long time to get over and I was not particularly hung up before I went into Gyan.

I remember remarking on it to a non-BK that I thought very courageously used to run naked hatha Yoga classes challenging many, many taboos but, of course, being much closer to tradition.

It would be an interesting exercise to do to turn around to a class of BKs and say,
  • "OK, today we are going to practise the soul-conscious stage without any clothes on our physical bodies. Everyone strip. Anyone that does not want to, you are out of Gyan."
Can you imagine the reaction!?! So how soul-conscious are they? I think that you would find how many millions of miles the BKs are from walking their own talk. Frankly, rather than cause Maya between the sexes, I think it would cure it.

In many actors classes, and I have heard of it in body therapy teaching groups such as for acupuncture etc, they perform similar exercises to break down artificial barriers and get over the ridiculous taboos we burden ourselves with.

Alternatively, have BKs ever gone and done service in nudist colonies? All of a sudden I think I have found my niche and I think I am going back to the BKWSU to rejoin ...

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Post by paulkershaw » 29 Jun 2007

ex-l declared her new intentions by writing:
Alternatively, have BKs ever gone and done service in nudist colonies? All of a sudden I think I have found my niche and I think I am going back to the BKWSU to rejoin ...
Remember to walk your talk though and that means moring class too! And no shawl in mid-winter to warm the wobbly bits, OK?

I remember how long it took for me to be able to go the beach - properly - post Gyan, never mind sprawling in the nudist section ... thank God I am cured of that body-consciousness ... (!).

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naturist club

Post by alladin » 29 Jun 2007

Hi, I feel the same. I also thought many times that all BKs should have a nice training in naturist beaches to conquer body-consciousness.

My phase of discomfort or guilt instilled in me by them, did not last long. I accepted that the partyline was, "if you do those things, you are no good, you cannot be an instrument", and that therefore my lifestyle was incompatible and did not meet SS and most BK expectations. I was always told brutally, as if I was a worthless sinner and given lame nonsensical explanations such as, "what happens if a student sees you on a beach? He will have a body-conscious vision of you, so you cannot be a teacher if you show too much of your body" :roll:.

I remember innumerable occasions where I had to go hide somewhere during retreats, in order to take a nap in the sun or swim, hoping nobody would stray to where I was!! Ridiculous. I knew that BKs squeal, especially sisters, and if the roaming soul was a brother, that would be embarassing.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Jun 2007

alladin wrote:I remember innumerable occasions where I had to go hide somewhere during retreats, in order to take a nap in the sun or swim, hoping nobody would stray to where I was!! Ridiculous. .
Ha! Love you sister!!!

I can remember doing exactly the same thing to take a swim in the warm sea on a blazing hot day by the beach, as the other sisters sat in their plastic (acrylic) saris, nylon tights and socks "being soul-conscious".

Oh, the pain of it all ... I am so glad to be free. Of course, I am probably suffering all the bad karma of having stripped off in the open air to this day too ... but you cant win them all. :D

What was it all about!?! "Its not Royal", they would say. It has to be just cultural, e.g. can a Brazillian in a bikini not practise soul-consciousness meditation? You stand out a 1,000 times as a white chick putting on a sari than you do wearing appropriate clothing.

I am wondering if, that as the Brahma Kumaris (the Dadis) really never had any formal spiritual training beforehand, were not actually from that high or spiritual a caste and Lekhraj Kirpalani was afterall only a businessman, that they really do not have any idea about spirituality. It is all too colored by Lekhraj Kirpalani's bent up Victoria and Hindu ideas? A semblance of his idea of real spirituality?

A question rather than a statement. I am sorry but I do not buy into the "his every utterance was holy" equation.

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pale bodies and nylon saris and hot sun

Post by alladin » 01 Jul 2007

It's all "cultural". For hundreds of years in the west, the ideal of beauty, especially for women, was a white complexion. What counted was an aristocratic bearing. Well, time for crinolines and parasols was over, and at the end of XX century, sports, hygienism, spas, even suntanned bodies became fashionable and a sign of prosperity. Meaning only the bourgeois could afford vacationing and lazying out in the sun, so a brown face no longer implied, "I am a labourer, working in the fields all day".

China and Japan went through similar upsets of consciousness and phases. How does this connect with the BK system? I think we are witnessing and dealing with mere anachronism. BKs rowing against the current of times, sweating in that canoe going upstream, wearing nylon saris, suffering with no purpose, involving more masochistic folks in it. And sharing the hallucination of being holier than anybody else. Especially of those humans jumping in the river naked and enjoying going with the flow!

So, I am not going to wear a miniskirt in winter, nor long sleeves in summer, nor a nylon sari, nor designers' clothes, just because someone other than me decides that it's cool or the only way to be accepted. In fact, BK gatherings as far as outrageous costumes, are second just to Rio Carnival. Not because they are creative, but because they leave you with the mouth open.

Personally, I never wanted to wear costumes, masks or adopt any artificiality especially in front of God, disguising myself behind that or pretending would have made my life with SS easier, showing "obedience" or compliance, but would have meant disrespecting Baba. I think we have enough superficiality and frivolity in the outside world of Kaliyug!!

So, and I could post this sentence in many other topics, if belonging to the BK means becoming more body-conscious, role-conscious or unnatural, I'd rather not to.

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Post by paulkershaw » 02 Jul 2007

Pleeeezzzeee stop giving the service orientated BKs ideas everyone! You're going to have them invade previously unheard of places ... there'll be no sanctity left! ...

Imagine yourself sprawled out on a nudist beach (OK, all BKs switch off now or close your eyes until this scene has passed ...) lapping up the sand, the sea and the sun, in total relaxed aboslute peaceful mode when suddenly a large shadow befalls you.

Then managing to barely open your eyes to see what huge monstrosity is blocking the sun, you get blinded by the shine from a funny little highly polished badge.

The face that's looking down at you has its eyes firmly closed, and then you get handed a piece of melted oily sweety thingy, and then you hear, "Baba says you its wrong to lay in the sun without any clothes on, so we're giving you this white shawl, please cover yourself so we can sit down and talk to you ..."

Yeah right ...

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traps

Post by alladin » 12 Jul 2007

Hi, it feels like a long time, since Di started this topic saying that, "We have chosen to be with men who attracted us initially by their gentle, sincere approaches and their spirituality and their ability to have fun and intimacy ...".

In the meantime I, myself, became involved with an exiting BK and got burnt as never before. It was obvious, and he himself admitted, that his life was chaotic and the exiting BK part represented a big touchy issue. So, being rational, someone might have asked, "you knew it from the start, why did you not stay away from him?" I think, first of all, simply because the heart is not rational. Once we give our heart and have started investing emotionally, we find it difficult to pull out. Even against any evidence.

We think that "spiritual" people will not be needy of assistance, and will not drain our energy. We feel safe with them, trusting that they have training and principles such that they will be fair, honest, clear and will not make us suffer. For those of us that aren't, and will never be just "good weather friends", the trap is that we don't know how deep in the quicksands or pathological someone maybe, and how he can damage us accordingly.

So, here I am practising introspection and seeking light from the Forum. I have a long record for getting involved with men who have difficult mental and practical situations, addicts etc ..., went through some counselling so that I could break the pattern and stop being a "saviour". In fact, in this case, (although part of me says, "I've done it again!!"), I don't think I wanted to play that role. I did not want to "fix him".

I thought that we got together to share good feelings, reminding each other of useful spiritual teachings and principles we learnt, seeing the potential lying in each other's personality that was beyond the present circumstances and appearances. Well, he swung between the euphoria of having met in a very magic way, coloured by God's intervention, placing me on a pedestal on which I did not want to be put, to the other extreme of constantly looking for faults and reasons why he shouldn't be with me. (I don't want to play amateur psychologist but ... is he affected by bipolarism???). This whilst I was trying to maintain a positive vision of him, in spite of the negative, doubts + guilt filled one he has of himself, that made him ask me many times if I really thought he was "the one" my heart recognized and accepted. Always looking for my reassurances, suggesting that he was not worthy of my love and trust.

We talked about obsessive, compulsive behaviours, addiction, co-dependency, but as I was reading the "quicksand" topic, "depression", a new way to read, a possibility came into picture. The whole story about depressed people having a poor image of themselves, the constant internal negative self-talk, so powerful that no warmth or light of love can pierce that curtain. And their conclusion that they are better off facing their issues without a friend. So, maybe I shouldn’t take it personally, as a "rejection". We know how low our self esteem can fall if we allow that feeling to creep in!

This is the decision he seems to have reached, unilaterally, so quick that I had no time to adjust or fully realize. Me, being a "shakti", probably makes him feel free to hurt me. It is so convenient to think that I am made of steel!! Strange enough, I am the same person in which he admired hot temper and warmth ...

A Forum friend asked me if, when we met, I was waiting for a knight in armour riding a white horse to rescue me, but my sincere answer was "NO"!. I thought that we were 2 warriors in fact, bound by complicity and common aims, able to empower each other and cross any situation better in that synergy. But this dream got shattered and, sure, it takes 2 persons to believe in it, to make it happen.

As much as the brother is anti-BK at the moment, I recognize some typical BK behaviours in him. Maybe he acquired them from the BKs or maybe he became a BK because he's like that; not much transparency in behaviours and communication, imposing something on the other person, deciding "what's good for you", the woman is a doorway to hell, detachment as a cure, pretending that everything is OK and beneficial, a high degree of fatalism, you deal with your bad feelings, it's your karma any way, if you took suffering, it's your problem, not my responsibility.

When we met, more than one friend said, "well, healthier to stay away from BKs and EXs". I understood and believed they were right at that time, but nonetheless got involved and made a blunder - as happened before with lokik men too!! - with the brother I made the experiment with!! I feel seduced and abandoned. So, on top of the negative feelings any woman has in these situations, kleenex thrown in the dust bin, there's a sort of "punishment for breaking Shrimat" type of feeling I have to fight back. As if I had been defiant to the BK gods and rules (it's not the first time I have physical relationships at all, but this time it was with an exiting BK, very intense story, and with different significances attached due to the common spiritual path and experiences...) and got punished. Was it just " Maya", after all, in a super royal camouflaged form?

The life and mind of the brother were in a total mess before we met. He wove a nice web around me and we talked thoroughly and very openly about sex and did it. When he was enticing me, he had plenty of time and words to invest and demanded my energy in that. But at the time of pulling out, he showed just lack of care, covertness; typical BK detachment.

He's the one who made it clear from Day One that he had not been following celibacy for years and did not want celibacy in his life any more. I said I was open to anything, whichever direction things evolved to, and I gave and asked for the guarantee that any decision we might take in that respect, if our feelings changed later on, should be talked about openly; not taken unilaterally and imposed on the other person. And especially, I promised and he did too, that if ever sex was out of our relationship, we could still allow affection to flow, so that the heart chakra could stay open.

Very suddenly, giving me virtually no time to adjust nor a proper explanation, he slapped me with detachment, giving me the bitter pill of, "let's just be friends". That, in this case, rather than a step forward feels like a death sentence. I found it difficult, for few days, to even voice this out. There were other tough aspects in the relationship and our lives that were issues and seemed to be priorities.

Let me finish now. Hope you are all in good shape. In fact, after shedding tears as part of the script, I feel as I usually do, that I am rising again from the ashes. When that internal bell will ring next time, telling me "watch out, tears ahead! ...", will I listen, protect myself, keep the door of my heart closed, wait for the stranger to prove he's OK and harmless? Or will I forever be incapable of seeing the wolves when they come in my life disguised as lambs???

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Post by abrahma kumar » 12 Jul 2007

I think that there was a time when the idea was floated that this topic might be a 'girls' only place, however i see since then that some brothers, including myself, have made a few comments here and there.

Hi alladin, the pain of the situation you describe must be immense and I can only but imagine just how many tears i would have shed in your situation. So, although it may seem like an empty platitude right now, I hope that there is the will within your soul to take heart.

The BKs are famous (infamous?) for asserting their God-given opinion that there is "benefit in everything" :roll: and so I do hope that the situation you describe can bear some sort of fruit that will serve you - and everyone else that reads the site - positively. As I read the story i was reminded of a song performed by the Jean Carne, but unlike me i won't link to it. But I will sing it gently to myself in the hope that there is a way that the brother catches the vibe.

Take care alladin.
Abek

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synergy

Post by alladin » 12 Jul 2007

Hi ak, thank you for condolence.

More than "immense" pain there is, in this case, a sense of failure, defeat and of "I've been a fool (and fooled!)" once again. I am not that wise.

As I said, there's the risk of wanting to close the heart for good and this reaction would not be balanced. Neither would it spread good vibes in the world. Some idealists, like me, may think that a love story in fact can do something really good to the atmosphere, that it is not just for each other's pleasure and consumption. As BKs we are forbidden relationships, so having one with a "spiritual" companion, meant to me something special in terms of "synergy".

Maybe the brother is a womanizer. You know, I heard this before. Even people that follow Shrimat apparently can play mind games of seduction, fall prey of jealousy and other negative emotions that are considered as normal in the lokik "unperfect world of non effort-makers". BTW, what's the point of mentioning a singer and a song but not writing the title or posting the lyrics? Do manifest it!!

"I don't wanna wait in vain for your love", BM said. Wasting time and energy on the wrong person feels awful. But as you said, some BK teachings may come handy and could be implemented; how to turn a loss into a gain, learning from lessons, becoming stronger by passing tests.

In the blessing of the Murli I read today, Baba talked about remaining beyond sorrow, and I do not find it impossible, thanks to the miraculous effect of the tiny pinch of detachment I maintained throughout. I remember we talked about going to India together in a few months, and many other ideas he or I had. Now it's as if he has taken it all back, As if the desire to share and have a good time together equals to heavy-impossible lifetime projects/commitments.

Well, we may still do some traveling together, who knows. 2 single rooms at hotels :cry: I imagine, since the attraction was strong and he doesn't want to risk any further involvement!!! :wink:.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jul 2007

paulkershaw wrote:Then managing to barely open your eyes to see what huge monstrosity is blocking the sun, you get blinded by the shine from a funny little highly polished badge ...
Oh my god ... you fantasize of "The President" Big Mohini Panjabi on nudist beaches? No doubt searching for examples some human greatness amongst the local soccer players.
alladin wrote:But at the time of pulling out, he showed just lack of care, covertness; typical BK detachment.
Oh my goodness ... the pair of you!?! Exactly how literally "pulling out" are we talking about here! :shock:
  • OK ... Rubber gloves on ... "Nurse, pull the curtains and pass the 'Power to Face'".
Let's perform a Gyani autopsy on this one. My, what a unique example to document ... a real, live, still warm and beating example of sex in soul-consciousness perhaps? If this is not Yagya history, I don't know what is. Now, I hope that you've no attraction towards 5 storey buildings, have you? Did it feel like falling that far?

Excuse such an apparent lack of empathy and scientific rigor but, my friend, you chose this experience for all our readers' experience, so let me express our gratitude for that
  • ... now let's go into this in depth and detail with compassion. Dissection please.

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mining for non existing diamonds

Post by alladin » 25 Aug 2007

I wonder if this topic has died of heartache! So, I come here, in order to reply to a post Jannister wrote on 2007/2008 changes. Don't we feel a bit embarrassed when, talking or crying on some friend's shoulder, we hear that person saying, "Are you still wasting time with that crazy guy??"

Everybody except us can see reality but we feel that after all that man is so special and we really caught a glimpse of divinity in him that others cannot see. Do you remember Tracy Chapman's song, "For my lover?"? A typical example of women's abnegation. Note when she says, "people say I' m just a fool but they don't get any love from you". So, for a second of love and good vibes, how many hours, months and years of pain and games do we have to put up with? Masochism? Stubborness? Social conditioning?Men don't usually doit, they are taught to be smarter than that!!

Let me tell you a short story. Years ago, a friend of mine that has no connection with spiritual practises etc and is very pragmatic, looks strong and masculine, admitted to me that she had suffered a lot in her life by getting stuck with the wrong men. She put it in very simple terms, "I am also intrigued by mysterious, troubled guys. You feel like digging so hard in those personalities convinced that under the mud there's a diamond hidden. And after so much labouring, usually you discover that there was just a another piece of ... s***!"

I was shocked but I realized that often it is the truth. Even falling in love for the BK's God can be a bit like that, getting stuck in mining for nothing, who knows! Which part does self suggestion play, like Neo pointed out sometime ago? In the end, actions speak louder than words, the only problem is that we don't want to listen.

We hold on to a breadcrumb of positivity, survive on the little oxygen a few special moments provide and, even as BKs, we are taught to do that. They call it "Positive Thinking", looking only at specialities. It can be a trap. What if we focus, OK, not even on the whole negative pic, but on something our partner does, on some personality trait of his, that he will not be capable to nor will never reform because possibly it's part of some defense system or so very deeply engrained in his being, that he cannot give it up. We cannot compromise with it because it clashes with our principles, corrupts our higher self, and start from there, to undo our utopian fabrication? Just an experiment ...

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the topic still hot !!

Post by freedom » 25 Aug 2007

I could also relate stories in being in love (with a BK too), and all the deception that follows that 'dream' of a prince or someone to live life with you ... I am curious about my own next partner because now I feel I'll be so much more careful when starting a relationship (since you try to decipher what went wrong on the ones before).

My question now is for the 'brothers', men out there; do you also go through this spell? Or women (or sisters ... :shock: ) are just to have some fun and 'recycle'? Like one guy said, it is like leasing a car ... if you don't like at the end, you return it!!

Are all men that cold in their hearts or afraid to fall in love or just share a good life with the opposite sex?? :lol:

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Post by heshe » 26 Aug 2007

The post-feminist fallout having dismantled the family unit based on the lies of a patriarchal system designed to suppress women has resulted in a men's movement that will not tolerate and an attitude that men do not have a purpose outside providing money to there wives to go shopping for expensive shoes.

To have women assume that they can do whatever men do and better is wrong. Equal but different. The lace curtain is being removed, and women behaving badly, has left men not to be suckered by the pussy and being lead by their base instincts. Modern men, I think, are not buying what your selling because there is not the feeling that were partners but one sided fanactic women who want it all who have forgotten the femine is more attractive than padded shoulders and butch fems.

Women have paid the price for the feminist sisters and so have we all. Tear down the walls.

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Post by freedom » 26 Aug 2007

Funny, I never thought of 'selling' any of my parts in exchange of a male company, or interested in their money ... I must be from another planet ... :lol:. I just believe in attraction of the opposite sexes with respect, fun and love ... I'll let you know if that still exists, or I shall return to my own planet ... :D.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Aug 2007

heshe wrote:The post-feminist fallout having dismantled the family unit based on the lies of a patriarchal system designed to suppress women has resulted in a men's movement that will not tolerate

Good discussion sisters ... I am not so sure I would put the blame at the feet of a patriarchal system, unless Capitalism is a sub-set of patriarchy. I don't think it is entirely.

When were relationships EVER ruled by love? In my book, even in the West, either arranged marriages or "accidental" procreation (read that how you wish) were the rule until very recently. The Romantic Myth the West has aspired to is now being corroded on one hand by the same force that dominated marriages before ... desire for property and wealth (at the man's expense) and on other by women adopting negative male behavior, e.g. drinking, blatant promiscuity.

How many women "keep" men as men have "kept" most women for most of time? Women today in the West want too much and so have to carry equal blame. I also think that a lot of women, young and old, in the West use sex and pregnancy quite deliberate to either ensnare the male or reap the rewards (house, income), AND sex and their sexuality to control men. Women are not so innocent ... especially when they incarnate into Mothers and Mother-in-Laws.
freedom wrote:Funny, I never thought of 'selling' any of my parts in exchange of a male company, or interested in their money ...
Reading freedom's post made me think ... and want to ask/note in public ... you don't really see many "girlie-girlie" women in Gyan/BKWSU, do you? Not many heels and short skirts ... not even in the transition period. A lot more Doms. And, ditto ... what are the men like? Do they tend to be manly or feminine? Are manly virtues encouraged or do the brother feminize themselves ... Is it all those dominant females or is it all those lacy doilies?

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