Ex-PBK Shivsena's beliefs

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 21 May 2008

shivsena wrote:The ball is in his court; let us see how he kicks the ball.
Yahoo! Yeh hui naa baat! I will definately kick the ball. But what has happened to that ball which I kicked in your court in the form of the query regarding the interpretation of the aggressive feminine terms (like Putnaa, Shuparnakhaa, etc) used in Murlhs? When are you going to kick that ball? But I believe in healthy chatting. So, answering is not compulsory.
The match has just started; first it was a one-sided game.
No, it's not that the match has just started; but it's that you have just completed your batting (without any four & sixer) & that now it is my turn to bat. In the next article, I'll reply your queries.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 22 May 2008

shivsena wrote:Do you believe in GOD; if so, then which God??
* Yes, I do believe in God. But God is God forever. I was under the impression that He achieves the status of God only in the Auspicious Confluence Age & loses His Godly qualities due to the passage of time; but now I firmly believe that He never loses His Godly qualities. Also in Murlis, ShivBaba is described as 'the Oldest thing' (puraane te puraanee cheej) & 'permanent forever' (sadaa kaayam).
* He is Truthful-Everconscious-Blissful. Rudra souls are His blissful components.
* On the basis of 'the 'Supersymmetric Unified Field Quantum Theory', I can show that all existing animate-inanimate, corporeal-incorporeal entities emerge through God & finally all these entities will merge in Him. Thus He is the Master Creator of & beyond to both corporeal & incorporeal entities; & both these entities (corporeal-incorporeal) are subject to final dissolution. In some scriptures, God is described as 'Shuddha Sakari' - a stage beyond to & superior to both corporeal-incorporeal stages. In mathematics. Complex numbers (e.g square roots of -1, -2, etc) are believed to be beyond to & couldn.t be reduced to the level of both positive numbers (e.g. 1, 2, 3, etc) & negative numbers (e.g. -1, -2, -3, etc). Applying the same analogy, we can see that Shuddha Sakari form of God is beyond to & couldn't be reduced to the level of both corporeal & incorporeal stages. This scriptural fact couldn't be traced in Murlis. Murlis think only up to the level of incorporeal stage. But the subject matter of scriptures is beyond the limit of the incorporeal stage.
* God is Allah, Lord of Lords, King of Kings.
Which is the Chariot of God?
Good ball. God does incarnate on the earth, at the end of the Kalpa. He, combined with 1st number Rudra soul (Shiv-Shakti combined), incarnates in the body/bodies of ordinary (non-Rudra) souls. He never practices RajYoga to reveal Himself.
How do you remember your God?
A lengthy topic. But in short;
1) first I go to silence stage by the practice of Yogaasan, Praanaayaam, etc, then,
2) I look inwards,
3) try to visualize my future original self (which is complete with respect to all aspects),
4) concentrate on that my future self,
5) try to realise the nature of that 'self',
6) inellectually communicate with that 'self' &
7) ask him (my future self - who is knowledgeful) questions about who, how, when, why & what regarding God & Godly knowledge. I ask him such queries;

  • How he achieved that complete status?
    How he found the Supreme Father (God)?
    Which proper technique should be followed to remember God?
    Where is God & His Abode?
    What is aim of my life?

Just as you visualize the future 100% incorporeal stage of RamShivbaba; similarly, I visualize my own future complete 'self'. Thus through 'self-realization', I am approching 'God-realization'. This is my 'working (temporary) method' to remember God. But, in future, when God will be revealed to me, I,ll change my method of rememberance of God.

Next ball please.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 22 May 2008

Thanks for your effort of answering my queries.

All what you have quoted about God, is from the scriptures of Bhakti marg and the information and experiences you have gathered up until now in your own life.

  • Do you believe in Murlis of Shiva??
    Do you believe that Lekhraj Kirpalani is Krishna's soul and Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul at the end of Kaliyug.
    Do you believe in the 5000 year cycle?

Most important query : have you done the 7 days basic course of Godly knowledge and do you believe in the bk philosophy?

more queries later.
shivsena.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 23 May 2008

new knowledge wrote: * Yes, I do believe in God. But God is God forever. I was under the impression that He achieves the status of God only in the Auspicious Confluence Age & loses His Godly qualities due to the passage of time; but now I firmly believe that He never loses His Godly qualities.
* God is Allah, Lord of Lords, King of Kings.
Does your God have a name?? or Is He naam-roop se nyara??
He, combined with 1st number Rudra soul (Shiv-Shakti combined), incarnates in the body/bodies of ordinary (non-Rudra) souls. He never practices RajYoga to reveal Himself. Next ball please.
Can you be more specific as to who is this no 1 rudra soul (shiv-shakti combined); what is his lokik name and where does he stay?

I have been very specific in my beliefs that there is no other Chariot of God Shiva except the body of Virendra Dev Dixit (Ram's soul); so could you be more specific in your answers to avoid repetition of the same queries?
shivsena

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 24 May 2008

shivsena wrote:Does your God have a name?? or Is He naam roop se nyara??
What's the use of such God who is naam-roop se nyaaraa, i.e, who is formless, featureless, attributeless, unknowable & void? In scriptures, He is believed to be Shuddha Sakari. Just as, in mathematics, complex numbers are beyond to & cannot be reduced to the level of both positive & negative numbers; Shuddha Sakari form & features of God are beyond to, superior to & cannot be reduced to the level of both corporeal & incorporeal stages. For BKs, God is incorporeal (or Bindi, i.e, Dot); for the followers of Swami-Narayan cult, He is corporeal. But for me, both these corporeal & incorporeal forms are perishable. According to scriptures, God manifests His features & form according to the beliefs of His devotees (Bhakt), scolars (Gyanis) & Yogis. Let's see how He manifests Himself when He will be revealed to the world.

Again, idealy, no any worldly name is suitable for Him. But, in practice, He may be called by a name. Some devotees call Him as 'Kalki Bhagwan', some call Him 'Lahari Krishna', devotees of ISKCON call Him 'Lord Krishna', Nijanand Pranamis call Him 'Praannaathji', for Muslims, He is 'Allah', for BKs, He is ShivBaba & for you, He is Ramshivbaba. Let's see by what name He calls Himself when He will be revealed.
Can you be more specific as to who is this no. 1 rudra soul (Shiv-Shakti combined); what is his lokik name and where does he stay. I have been very specific in my beliefs that there is no other Chariot of God Shiva except the body of Virendra Dev Dixit (Ram's soul); so could you be more specific in your answers to avoid repetition of the same queries?
I've engaged myself in search of 4 personalities -
  • 1) God,
    2) no. 1 Rudra soul,
    3) Chariot of God (combined with # 1 Rudra soul &
    4) that personality who plays the mysterious role of Maya.

Presently, I am collecting Murli points & quotations from scriptures about these 4 personalities & after deep churning of these Murli points & quotations from scriptures, I'll turn my research-work to find who & where these 4 personalities are. For this, I always look inwards & ask quries to my future complete self (by visualising hin) about these 4 personalities. I am sure my future sele will ultimately guide me to find these personalities, as he is knowledgeful & experienced. Thus though I am collecting Murli points & quotations from scriptures, I believe that Murlis & scriptures have their own limitations. Truth cannot be put on paper. So, study of Murlis & scriptures may give some hints, but their study is not sufficient to find God, no. 1 Rudra soul , their Chariot & Maya. Study of Murlis & scriptures must be supported by self-realization.

But, in the present ambiguous & dulistic conditions of the spiritual word, I am very careful to be 'very' specific in answering. I believe that 'to be uncertain' for a lengthy period is dangerious for our spiritual progress. And I am sure my future self definately lead me to 'certainty'; then I will be specific. Now, it's up to you whether the same queries should be repeated or not.
All what you have quoted about God, is from the scriptures of Bhakti marg and the information and experience you have gathered up until now in your life.
All I've quoted about God is from;
  • 1) deep churning of not only scriptures but also Murlis (as according me, though scriptures & Murlis cannot reproduce 100% Truth, they can give some hints which may serve as a gate-way to Truth),
    2) self-realization by visualising my own complete future self (as I believe in my future self more than Murlis & scriptures),
    3) My own life experiences & experiences of others.
    4) but I'll see & listen only tn God after His revelation.
Do you believe in Murlis of Shiva??
My point of view about Murlis is clear above. I respect both Murlis & scriptures though I suggest not to depend totally on them, as Truth cannot be put on paper; Murli points & quotdtions from scriptures may guide us to some extent. But for our spiritual progress, we should listen to our inner-self more than Murlis & scriptures.
Do you believe that Lekhraj Kirpalani is Krishna's soul and Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul at the end of Kaliyug.
Maya has created several such duplicate couples of Ram-Krishna, in BKWSU & worship cult, in such a way that most of Murli points or quotdtions from scriptures appear to be applicable to every couple; so, it's very difficult to decide which couple is true. These are some Ram-Krirhna couples;
  • 1) Lekhraj Kirpalani - Virendra Dev Dixit,
    2) Ramakant - Satish Mehta,
    3) Navin Modi - Virendra Dev Dixit,
    4) Harish Palekar - Virendra Dev Dixit,
    5) also, in worship cults, there are so many cults (ISKCON, Nijanandis, Krishna Pranamis, followers of Lahari Krishna, Mahanubhavis, etc) which claim that their leader is either the soul of Ram or Krishna.

And followers of each cult claim that Murli points or quotations from scriptures are applicable to only that couple of Ram-Krishna supported by them. So, deep churning of Murlis & scriptures & practice of self-realization is necessary to search the real couple of Ram-Krishna.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 25 May 2008

shivsena wrote:Do you believe in the 5000 year cycle?
* Definately not if you believe in the literal meaning of 5,000 year cycle. First, let me know do you believe in literal or symbolic meaning of 5,000 years of a Kalpa? BKs & PBKs are very expert to derive either literal or symbolic meaning of Murli points according to their convenience & their philosophy.
* How do you count 5,000 years? Which type of year do you refer? There are 9 types of years described in the Hindu scriptures (Surya Siddhaanta), mamely;

  • 1) Prajaapati year (= one cycle of 4 Yugas),
    2) Pitra year (= 30 days),
    3) Solar year (365 days),
    4) Brihaspati year (= 12 years; but which type of years?),
    5) Brahmin year (= total time period of the Kalpa),
    6) Lunar year (= 354 days),
    7) Divine year (= 360 days),
    8) Savan year (=24 hours),
    9) Constellation year (= few instances?).

Againg Christian, Muslim, Bahai calenders give various meanings of 'a year'. Then, which type of year does Murli refer to count 5,000 years?
  • * Do you refer Christian calender to count 5,000 years? If so, then why the starting of dynasty of Lakshmi-Narayan is believed to start from Sanvat 1 instead of specifing the starting of the dynasty of Lakshmi-Narayan in terms of AD (Anno Domini) or BC (Before Christ)? - an answered query.
    * Somewhere, sister bansy has asked a question why does the spiritual leaders prefer round figure numbers? Brother shivsena, do you believe in very accurate 5,000 years? Why not 4,999 or 5,001 years? What a co-incidence that every figure in BKWSU (& also in worship cult) is a round figure. 5,000 years of a Kalpa, 9,00,000 (why not 8,99,999 or 9,00,001?) population of the Golden Age, accurate 2,25,000 (why not 2,24,999 or 2,25,001?) number of Rudra souls & 2,25,000 of Vijay-Maala souls - all these are round figures. Is not this unbelievable?
    * I believe that the incorporeal & corporeal, living & non-living entities emerge through the God & finally all these entities will merge in Him. This is a very lengthy process which is not possible in just 5,000 years.
And most inportant query ; have you done the 7 days basic course of Godly knowledge and do you believe in the BK philosophy?
I've done 7 days basic course in 1992, Advance Course in 2007, inadvance course in 2005, super-inadvance course in 2005, Vishnu Party course in 2007. I partially believe in BK philosophy.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 25 May 2008

Next ball please.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 25 May 2008

new knowledge wrote: Just as you visualize the future 100% incorporeal stage of RamShivbaba; similarly, I visualize my own future complete 'self'. Thus through 'self-realization', I am approching 'God-realization'. This is my 'working (temporary) method' to remember God. But, in future, when God will be revealed to me, I,ll change my method of rememberance of God.
Do you mean to say that self-realisation= God-realisation, i.e. self=supreme and atma=paramatma!!!!!!

If this is your belief, then do you see yourself as God? When you have reached self-realisation, does every soul become God in the self-realised state? Does this mean that you believe in the omnipresence of God or multiple Gods?

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 25 May 2008

new knowledge wrote: I've done 7 days basic course in 1992, Advance Course in 2007, inadvance course in 2005, super-inadvance course in 2005, Vishnu Party course in 2007. I partially believe in BK philosophy.
I like short and to the point answers;
It seems that you have been to various parties but you have chosen not to stick to any one party, as they probably did not fit into your thinking and you have decided to take only the points which appealed to you to form your own theory; So does it mean that you have no one to guide you in life and no religious or spiritual organisation to which you owe 100% alliance and that you are your own guru(guide) and you just rely on your inner instincts to reach self-realisation ie God-realisation.

I 100% believe in the basic structure of the bk and pbk knowledge and my difference lies only in their interpretation of Murlis of Shiva.
I do not have any partial beliefs as this leads to ambiguities which prevents you from reaching God.


shivsena.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 25 May 2008

shivsena wrote:Do you mean to say that self-realisation= God-realisation, i.e. self=supreme and atma=parmatma !!!!! If this is your belief, then do you see yourself as God? When you have reached relf-realisation, does every soul become God in the self-realised state? Does this mean that you believe in the omnipresence of God or multiple Gods?
Now read your quotation from your previous article of this thread (dated 20 May 2008);
Just turn your head inwards and look at yourself
Are not these your quotations contradictory to each other????? When I say that I am practising self-realisation (to approch God-realisation), you criticise me that I believe in self-realisation = God-realisation & Atma = Parmatma; then.....then why do you suggest me to turn my head inside & to look myself (indirectly to practise self-realisation)? For me, self-realisation is not equal to God-realisation, but they are supportive to each other & they both go hand-in-hand; practice of one leads to another. Does not also Murli talk about self-respect (self-realisation)?
It seems that you have been to various parties but you have chosen not to stick to any one party, as they probably did not fit into your thinking and you have decided to take only the points which appealed to you to form your own theory;
I am totally plain & have washed my brain. I've not developed any very 'special' frame of thinking & theory. I take only those Murli points whose unlimited (symbolic) meanings appeals to my future inner self (who is very close to God - the Ocean of Knowledge). What's wrong with me if I am not satisfied with the literal meaning of those Murli points related to 5,000 year cycle?
So does it mean that you have no one to guide you in life and no religious or spiritual organisation to which you owe 100% alliance and that you are your own guru(guide) and you just rely on your inner instincts to reach self-realisation ie God-realisation.
I am practishng self-realisation - this does not mean that I am Guru (guide) of myself. I also believe that when God will be revealed, He will teach or give Shrimat face-to-face; but, presently, when I practise self-realisation (via visualising my own future inner self who is very close to God), God guides me through that my future inner-self though He is not yet revealed; thus my complete knowledgeful future self serves as an instrument for God to guide me & to derive me unlimited meanings of Murlis & scriptures.
I 100% believe in the basic structure of the BK and PBK knowledge and my difference lies only in their interpretation of Murlis of Shiva.
Brother, I've no any problem & enmity with BKs & PBKs. I honestly promise you I'll definately believe in the basic structure of BKWSU, if I found the unlimited meanings of Murli points to be rational according to the guide-lines of God which I receive through my inner-self. For this, I'll deeply churn Murli points & then decide.
I do not have any partial beliefs as this leads to ambiguities which prevents you from reaching God.
But this does not mean that I should unwillingly believe in the basic structure of BKWSU, though I've no sufficient sound proofs to support its rationality.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 25 May 2008

Next ball please.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 26 May 2008

I now have a fair idea of what your thoughts are, so please do me a favour.

Please do not respond to any of my posts and i will do the same. I will ignore your posts as they do not exist and you please do likewise for my posts. I am not interested in any communication with a soul who believes that ''self is GOD''.

I have wasted enough time and energy in past on this theory of 'self=God' with many learned scholars of Bhakti-marg and i do not wish to waste my precious time on this fruitless debate anymore. So you free to direct your queries to other members of this forum.

This is my last ball to you.
Good-luck and all the best.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 26 May 2008

I am not interested in any communication with a soul who believes that "self is God".
False allegation! How did you come to such conclusion?? In any way, none of my posts indicate that I believe in the philosophy of 'self = God'. I just stated that I practice 'self-realisation' to know & approach 'God-realisation'. Does not also Murli suggest to be always in 'Swamaan', i.e, to practise 'self-realisation'? And ... and if you see only the future 100% incorporeal stage of God (Ramshivbaba), then why do you suggest me to turn my head inwards & to look at myself instead of visualising only the future 100% incorporeal stage of Ramshivbaba????? I never believe that self is God. And I never claimed that my technique of rememberance of God (by practising self-realisation) is 'very' correct; I know the limitations of this technique. So, I've chosen this technique as the 'working (temporary) method' of the spiritual meditation & I'll change that technique when God will be revealed to me.

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Re: Ex-PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shiva » 03 Sep 2015

My dear all Senior and Gyani tu atmas/PBKs/,

How can a no.1 soul talk wrongly and comment wrongly on sister-in-charges of BK centres, even though they were not involved in initiating the questions, for which please see vtp 1130// and Virendra Dev Dixit/aivv had encouraged a pbk student to talk in between 'vartalap' to cross examine the questions and to argue, which is very, very wrong. In AIVV the students are arrogant and spiteful towards BKs and BK teachers.
Please see the link below urgently. These questions were generated in the minds of NEW PBKs, and were not initiated or influenced by any BK Didis or Dadis.. How can an ASSUMED no.1 soul wrongly interpret the same and get angry on them???

Please see link below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

Om Shanti

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