Ex-PBK Shivsena's beliefs

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shivsena
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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 20 Apr 2008

bansy wrote: The sun shines on all parts of the earth equally, whether you are a rock or you are a plant or you are a human being. Each item will receive and use that sunlight according to its own mind intellect and soul, but the sun just simply keeps shining equally to all four corners of the world. If you remember the Father well, then you will be able to use your inheritance well, and so it would seem you have received more inheritance from the Father This is how I understand the meaning of numberwise.
Dear bansy Bhai.

I fully agree with you that God(sun) is the powerhouse which gives his power openly and equally to all souls, but if the souls do not know this powerhouse and do not know how to connect to that powerhouse, then even God(sun) cannot help them; It has been said in Bhakti marg that ''God helps those who help themselves', and also it has been said in Vanis " that bap kissi pe upkar nahin karte hain; har ek ko apne upar upkar karna hai" and ''himmate bacche and madade bap"; so it the our duty to first recognise the Father Ramshivbaba(the powerhouse) and have intellectual connection with him to recieve power numberwise; if there is no connection then there is no power; also bindishiv cannot give any power to any soul, as is evident from the fact that none of the BKs and PBKs have become divine in the last 70 years.
shivsena.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 21 Apr 2008

Brother shivsena, who is 'Yogiraj' & who is 'Yogeshwar'? Please reply at least to this query.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Apr 2008

shivsena wrote:Similarly i feel that this whole Sangamyugi drama of BKs and PBKs is an intellectual exam set by Ramshivbaba(karankaravanhar bap) and mother Krishna(Brahma)
Dear shivsena,
Now you are saying, 'mother Krishna' but you are always insisting that Krishna alias Brahma will be prajapita. So as per your views Krishna alias brahma will become mother and prajapita. Your perspectives has a jumble of ideas.
to see who recognises the rachieta(Ramshivbaba) and rachna(Krishna) in the end and in this process Brahma(Krishna) himself is the exam paper in which he plays the practical role of Maya to mis-lead the BKs and PBKs to seperate the family into 3 groups; and there are enough hints in Murlis and Vanis which point towards this mayavi part, only you have to have a deep study of Murlis and Vanis and churn them and seperate out the points under various headings like Ram, Bharat, Maya-Ravan, Brahma, bharatwasis, etc. and things will start becoming clear.
the core of this study is to detect who is the speaker in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and if one is able to detect, then one can never get confuse.
This is the most amazing and interesting part of drama, that on one hand Brahma(Krishna) himself is playing the role of Maya in the PBK family and then as mother he goes to mt abu and gives subtle hints about the same part and whosoever understands this raaj only will become mayajeet and jagatjeet; It has been said in Vani 7-1-78, "Maya ko challenge karo ki aao aur bidayee lo, Maya se kabhi ghabrana nahin, ghabraenge nahin toh Maya namaskar karegi, hai kuch bhi nahin, kagaz ka sher hai, kagaz ke sher se ghabrane wale ho kya??" ("challenge Maya to come and take leave; do not be afraid of Maya, if you are not afraid of Maya then Maya will bow down before you, in reality it is nothing, just a paper tiger, are you afraid of paper tiger'') Who is this Maya we have to challenge and not get scared of ?? is it the 5 vices or the personified form of 5 vices!! i think this paper tiger is nothing but the mayavi roop of Brahma whom we PBKs have to recognise and challenge and whosoever has the power to identify this paper tiger and has the guts to challenge this part of Brahma, will find a place in 108.
One has to challenge the Maya within us and not to challenge Krishna alias brahma. If we can control the Maya within us, then we can detect the speaker in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. As it is mentioned in MU. 24/4/72,--- "When you cannot control your wife, then how can you control your vices? Your duty is to keep your wife under your control."
i think that Ramshivbaba will be happy only with those children who recognise Him and his creation Brahma(Krishna);
It is said that ShivBaba creates brahmins through prajapita Brahma, so how can Krishna alias Brahma becomes a medium (prajapita) himself to become a creation?
PBKs think that they will get the inheritance from bindishivbaba through Prajapita Brahma(Ram), but i think we will get varsa only from Ramshivbaba through Prajapita Brahma(Krishna); this is the major difference in my thinking and what the PBKs think.
How can you use the term' 'bindishivbaba' when that bindi has a body. A soul without a body is called a soul and we call someone with a name and not 'hey, soul come here.'
It is said in Hindu scriptures that Maya is adi-shakti; I feel that this adi-shakti is no one but Brahma(jagdamba) in the picture of ardh-nari-ishwar; when this adi-shakti is not under the control of Ishwar Ramshivbaba then it becomes Maya-shakti and spreads ignorance in the night of Brahma, and when it is undercontrol of Ram Ishwar then it becomes Brahma-jagdamba, the first shakti(wife-banni) of God Ramshivbaba.
I agree with you that Krishna alias brahma will be Jagadamba as it is said, that "he is the true elder mother." But it is indigestible that Brahma - Krishna - Jagadamba will become Prajapita. A mother can never play a Father's role when the Father is hale and hearty. Also as per your views that Krishna alias Brahma is Adam, Adi Dev and Mahavir. If the soul of Krishna is called Adam, Adi-Dev and Mahavir, then who is Eve, Adi-Devi and Mahavirni as it is said in MU 7/12/07, God himself teaches Yoga and makes Mahavir and Mahavirni. Mahavir and Mahavirni are called God of knowledge and Godess of knowledge." If the soul of Krishna is Mahavir, then who is Mahavirni?
I can never hate anybody; ever since childhood i have been taught in bible classes in school that "hate the sin and not the sinner" and i have remembered this throughout my life and now i understand the true meaning of these words when i apply this saying in this Sangamyugi game, in which Krishna is destined to play the part of no 1 patit kami kanta(sinner)
The soul of Krishna can never become the no.1 impure soul as it is said that "Shiv enters into the most impure soul and makes him the biggest flower." Only the soul of Ram becomes no.1 in every aspect, to become the most impure and the most pure.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Apr 2008

Andrey wrote:For eg. PBKs think that being physically close to Baba is big service.
Dear andrey Bhai,

Just like to point out that we have to be intellectually close and not physically close to ShivBaba.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Apr 2008

new knowledge wrote:* According to you, we shall attain our incorporeal stage by remembering 100% incorporeal stage of Ram. But it's not clear from any of your posts, how soul of Ram attains His 100% incorporeal stage? What is the role of Bindi Shiv in the process of attaining Rambap's 100% incorporeal stage? Does Ram remembers Bindi Shiv? But you strictly oppose to remember Bindi Shiv, then how Ram could remember Him? Now if the soul of Ram neither remembers Bindi Shiv nor His own 100% incorporeal stage is in emerged stage before Him (so that He could follow it), how will He attain His own 100% incorporeal stage? A significant query for your churning of knowledge.
Dear brother,

A very intellectual question to shivsena Bhai. I have observe that you always produce intellectual questions but it is a pity that you couldn't recognize the appointed Chariot of Father Shiv.

Om Shanti-- indie.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 21 Apr 2008

pbkindiana wrote: The soul of Krishna can never become the no.1 impure soul as it is said that "Shiv enters into the most impure soul and makes him the biggest flower." Only the soul of Ram becomes no.1 in every aspect, to become the most impure and the most pure.
Dear indiana,

You are free to believe that Ram is no. 1 patit kami kanta. I will keep on believing that it is Krishna (through' the body of Virendra Dev Dixit) that is going to be revealed as no.1 patit kami kanta and it is Ram who will be revealed as Ramshivbaba.

Let us agree to dis-agree and only time will tell who is right or wrong.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by andrey » 25 Apr 2008

Indie wrote:Just like to point out that we have to be intellectually close and not physically close to ShivBaba.
Yes, yes, this is exactly what i meant. Brother shivsena has said that "PBKs think that being physically close to Baba is big service" and i was just giving an example of one of the things he says about the PBKs which is not correct and you just prove the same. I understood it was not clearly said, so i apologize.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 25 Apr 2008

pbkindiana wrote:Just like to point out that we have to be intellectually close & not physically close to ShivBaba.
Then why PBKs insists on the presence of ShivBaba here in this mundane world?

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2008

new knowledge wrote:Then why PBKs insists on the presence of ShivBaba here in this mundane world?
Dear brother,
Om Shanti. When it is said that we have to be intellectually and not physically close to ShivBaba, it does not mean that there is no necessity to meet ShivBaba at all.

I suppose what indiana meant to say is that once we have met Baba, there is no need to remain physically close/glued to Him after that all the time. We can move to any part of the world after meeting Him and do our jobs or Godly service in His remembrance.

All those souls who became BKs/PBKs had a desire to meet God in corporeal form. That is the reason they entered this path of knowledge. If you say that there is no need for ShivBaba's presence in this mundane world, then you are speaking the language of those souls who say that God never comes on this Earth, only His messengers come to liberate/guide them.

By the way, do you ever plan to meet God? If so in which world? In the Supreme Abode? I don't know if you were/are a member of the Vishnu Party or not, but they declared on this forum that Dashrath Patel himself is God. Then according to you he should be neither God nor a medium of God.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 26 Apr 2008

Brothers arjun & indiana, I agree with you. I am not a Bahai who do not believe in the incarnation of God. I do believe that the Supreme, ShivBaba, incarnates in this mundane world to awake us from deep sleep of ignorance & illusion due to the influence of Maya.

I've got some clue in response to respected brother shivsena in the holy scriptures of worship cults. According to some worship cults, Maya is not just symbolic, but Maya is also personified in these scriptures. As this topic is beyond the BKWSU philosophy, I'll not quote that topic here.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by andrey » 01 May 2008

Dear brother shivsena,

Somewhere you have said that "would God go to jail?", but you should know from the scriptures that God takes birth in jail. (God Krishna takes birth in the jail by the mother Devaki). It also a memorial of the Confluence Age where it happens in an unlimited way.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 02 May 2008

andrey wrote:but you should know from the scriptures that God takes birth in jail (God Krishna takes birth in the jail by the mother Devaki). It is also a memorial of the Confluence Age where it happens in an unlimited way.
Could you please explain how the shooting of the episode of Krishna's birth in jail, as explained in Mahabharat, takes place in the the Confluence Age, in the form of the events of the year 1997 when respected Baba Virendra Dev Dixit was jailed?

Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is believed to be born as the Confluence Age Krishna in the year 1988-89 & after 8 years, i.e. in the year 1997, he was sent to jail. Thus the Confluence Age Krishna was not born in jail, he went to jail after 8 years from his birth. But that Krishna of Mahabharat was born in jail. Thus how does it prove that the 1997 episode is the shooting of the birth of Krishna of Mahabharat?

Also according to PBKs, the whole story of Mahabharat is just symbolic & not real; then the episode (of Mahabharat) of Krishna's birth in jail also should be accepted as symbolic & not real. Then ... how should
the real events of 1997 be regarded as the shooting or rehearsal of the imaginary/symbolic episode (described in Mahabharat) of Krishna's birth in jail??

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 May 2008

andrey wrote:Somewhere you have said that "would God go to jail?", but you should know from the scriptures that God takes birth in jail. (God Krishna takes birth in the jail by the mother Devaki). It also a memorial of the Confluence Age where it happens in an unlimited way.
Shivsena does make sense. Virendra Dev Dixit did not 'gain enlightenment' or 'realise that he was the alleged medium of God' in jail (e.g. "be born"), so that metaphor does not work at all. One word in a sentence does not a truth make.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by andrey » 02 May 2008

88 is said for the soul of Krishna - Dada Lekraj. He is not confluenced aged Krishna. He is Golden Aged Krishna. Taking birth is said for birth like revelation. There is a 5 years plan for becoming from beggar to prince which is ... you should know which year. However, when a child is born he is revealed to his familly first, then to his close relatives etc. So the matter of the jail is that many people had come to visit him there in the jail, so it got revealed he is some important personality.

I don't know about the symbolic meaning, but it could be some jail of vices that one becomes free from it, or jail of the old world (Jail of Maya) that one becomes detached from it whilst in it and realises his part and i don't know which year is this. Possibly 76. For the revelation of the confluenced age Krishna, it is taken to be 2018.

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Re: PBK shivsena

Post by new knowledge » 02 May 2008

andrey wrote:Taking birth is said for birth-like revelation.....it could be some jail of vices that one becomes free from it, or jail of the old world (Jail of Maya) that one becomes detached from it whilst in it and realises his part
OK. Do you mean that the detachment of respected Baba Virendra Dev Dixit from the Jail of Maya is the sign of birth-like revelation of the Confluence Age Krishna? But even then the puzzle remains unsolved. How should the birth-like revelation of the Confluence Age Krishna, when he is free from the Jail of Maya, (which is believed by PBKs to be a real event) be regarded as the shooting or rehearsal of the episode (in Mahabharat) of Krishna's birth in jail, which is believed to be just as symbolic or imaginary?

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