Percentage Bhakti in PBK

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shivsena
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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by shivsena » 25 Apr 2009

bansy wrote: what exactly is Bhakti ? This word probably came up in maybe your early days as a BK, everyone seems to be discussing it, but what is Bhakti.
Good question: According to me, any prayer or rememberence or ritual done out of body-consciousness is Bhakti and anything done in complete soul-consciousness(after God-realisation and self-realisation) is Gyan(truth); so going by this definition, all 3 worlds are practising Bhakti and true Gyan-marg will start only in future when Ram= shiv.
With all respect to the person creating this thread and others who have posted, how do you measure the degrees/percentage of Bhakti ?
There is no percentage in Bhakti or in Gyan; either you are in Bhakti or you are in Gyan.
I had asked for the percentage of Bhakti, as arjunbhai accepted that fact that there is an element of Bhakti in advance knowledge; i believe that all BKs and PBKs are just doing 100% subtle Bhakti as no one really knows the personified form of ShivBaba.

shivsena.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by mbbhat » 25 Apr 2009

arjun wrote:1)I don't know. Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit does not claim that he has attained the stage of perfection.

2)That was just my guess.

3)Baba is still giving knowledge. The process is not yet over. So, there is percentage of Bhakti visible even among PBKs.
1)What do PBKs and you personally believe? Is Mr. Dixit complete(perfect) or not?

2)Thank you for the guess.

3)Thank You for one of the perfect answers.
---
Dear Bansy Soul,

Different types of bhaktis:-

1)Bhakti= ignorance, darkness, blindfaith, wandering, doing sin, in search of God.

Baba has said in Murli, "You are still bhagats. When you reach perfection, you will become 100% gyaani [Note that even though BKs are called as braahmins, they are also called as half caste].

In lowkik, there is avyabhichari(pure) Bhakti, and vyabhichari Bhakti(impure). Bhakti also has different stages and types.

Even in knowledge there are different stages. So till a Bk reaches perfection, there is some Bhakti in him. When sanskaar of Ravan(impurity) dies completely, he can be said a complete knowledgeful in true sense.

Many times PBKs catch word meaning and interpret it according to their own way. So I asked the above question to PBKs in their own way.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by bansy » 25 Apr 2009

Bhakti= ignorance, darkness, blindfaith, wandering, doing sin, in search of God.

Baba has said in Murli, "You are still bhagats. When you reach perfection, you will become 100% gyaani [Note that even though BKs are called as braahmins, they are also called as half caste].

In lowkik, there is avyabhichari(pure) Bhakti, and vyabhichari Bhakti(impure). Bhakti also has different stages and types.

Even in knowledge there are different stages. So till a BK reaches perfection, there is some Bhakti in him. When sanskaar of Ravan(impurity) dies completely, he can be said a complete knowledgeful in true sense.
Thanks reply.

What is "pure Bhakti" ?

Now a reverse question ... how and at what stage in the cycle does the first Bhakti begin. During Golden Age, Silver Age ? A 100% pure soul has no Bhakti.

Or another side question - is what if I do not believe in God (atheist) and just at ease and happy with the life as it is, good and bad, not worried about life or death. Then I have no Bhakti, does that make me ....eerrrr, pure and knowledgable ? For example, does an amoeba beleive in God...if not does that mean it is totally knowledgeable ? If there is such a thing as an amoeba Soul World, who or what is sustaining that ... an "amoeba God", or the Supreme Soul ?

Anyone try to give some sense to all of this ? I seem to be tending towards how different are man (soul) is to nature. For example, an earthquake or a hurricane, or lightning is nature, just as the solar winds thay are to hit the earth. But are they "bad" things.

Sorry for broadening the thread but until "Bhakti" itself is clearly understood, then it cannot be compared.

(I am not trying to be cynical by giving extreme example of amoeba, I am trying to understand the concepts of Bhakti, soul and God. Together with nature. I think everyone here is much more "analytical" then me and I am happy with the broad range of understandings, welcome ). Thanks.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by john morgan » 25 Apr 2009

It may be that the worst type of Bhakti is hurting others in the name of God.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by shivsena » 25 Apr 2009

john morgan wrote:It may be that the worst type of Bhakti is hurting others in the name of God.
Yes -- Bhakti in all the 3 worlds is hurting the souls and taking them away from God.
PBKs should remember the fact that everything starts in a subtle manner from the seed world of PBKs, which is reflected in the base world of BKs and then in the outside world.

Today, there is most corruption in the name of God in all 3 worlds; in the bk and pbk world there is corruption of Godly knowledge ( mixed with manushya mat), which is taking the souls away from the personified form of ShivBaba.

shivsena.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by mbbhat » 28 Apr 2009

Strictly speaking, meaning of Bhakti is LOVE. In this sense, all the souls who are in Copper Age, Iron Age and Confluence Age are BHAGATS. Baba sometimes says, in one way everybody is yogi( a child does Yoga of its parents, a patient that of doctor, a student is yogi of his teacher).
There is love in deities. Even ShivBaba loves us. But deities and ShivBaba are not called as bhagats since they DO NOT NEED love of anyone.

So it can be said that pure bhagats are those who desire love of God. Others or anybody who has desire also belong to that category indirectly. Baba has said in Murli that even those who do not believe God also believe that there is some power(some say it as nature).

Even a Bk is a Bhagat till he becomes 100% nischaybuddhi(faith). When one becomes sure of his bright future, then only he can be totally carefree. Only then he can be called as KNOWLEDGEFUL. A Murli point also says that till you become achal, adol(stable) you are bhagats.

Even though BKs love Baba, Baba calls the BK path not as Bhaktimarg. He gives the name gyanmarg. The reasons may be due to the following:-
a)In Bk path, knowledge is the base of everything. But in lowkik Bhaktimarg, just love(emotions, bhaavnaa) is enough.
b)In lowkik love, there is feeling of both giving and taking. Each one experiences something from the other. But in Bk path, the communication is as if it is one way. The energy flow is unidirectional. We(BKs) feel(=enjoy) love of Baba. But Baba does not enjoy(get excited or feel extra happy) love of children.
Not only that real aim of every Bk should be to become like that. A Bk should be a donor to others and have no expectation at all. He should immerse in love of Baba. He should not feel that he is giving love to others. The other person should get love from him. So energy flow here also is one way. A real Bk will not be influenced by another Bk (or any soul, of course, except ShivBaba). Sun does not feel that it is giving. It just radiates. Others receive according to their capacity. So even ShivBaba or a true gyaani is like that.
c)The purpose of knowledge is to make everything clear. It says nothing is new. All is fixed. There is no real(egoistic) effort. The main purpose itself is to go away from all limited feelings. The chaitanya atma becomes jada(liveless= fully content). So there is no emotion at all. When everything is clear, there is no giving and taking.

d)Even in lowkik, two names/paths are well known and are considered as different things. According to them, Bhaktimarg means one who does rituals, pooja, etc. Gyanmarg means just trying to be embodiment of swamaan. So Baba might have used the name gyaan marg to his teachings(Bk path).

So now considering the word Bhakti to lowkik people, I try to reply to the following.
bansy wrote: 1)What is "pure Bhakti" ?
2)Now a reverse question ... how and at what stage in The Cycle does the first Bhakti begin. During Golden Age, Silver Age ? A 100% pure soul has no Bhakti.

3)Or another side question - is what if I do not believe in God (atheist) and just at ease and happy with the life as it is, good and bad, not worried about life or death. Then I have no Bhakti, does that make me ....eerrrr, pure and knowledgable ? 4) For example, does an amoeba beleive in God…...
5)Anyone try to give some sense to all of this ? I seem to be tending towards how different are man (soul) is to nature. For example, an earthquake or a hurricane, or lightning is nature, just as the solar winds thay are to hit the earth. But are they "bad" things.
1)When the love is pure, it is called as pure Bhakti. Here pure means desiring just God(or deity) and not any material benefit from God. Expecting just God and not anything from him. He will be even ready to die if he gets that enjoyment. (Eg:- Meera Bai). Another example may be :- Some do noudha Bhakti and be ready to die if they do not get vision of God].

2)I think part of this is already explained. There is purity even in an impure soul. The word Bhakti itself is of lower value. Even in Copper Age, there is some purity. Their effort matches the highest level of Bhakti. Hence they are like masters of Bhakti. So they get titles as bhakt shiromanis.
Now how Bhakti begins?:- An infant is satisfied in itself (if it is supplied with food, water and shelter). It has no expectation even from its mother. In fact it does not know what a mother is. As it grows, it slowly feels love of mother. It feels something is lacking in itself and enjoys/expects mother’s company. As it grows, it becomes more knowledgeful (about body) and expects love of a boy(or a girl). Usually desire goes on increasing as a person grows. Similarly the state of Satyug and Tretayug can be considered as that of baby and child.
When the soul reaches Copper Age, it becomes more knowledgeable about body and body consciousness shakes the stability of the soul and Bhakti begins.

3)This is also not really bad. But it will not make a person pure and knowledgeful. But since negative effect of Bhakti is absent, he will be comfortable.

4)according to my knowledge, there is no soul in amoeba. It is simialr to a living cell of a body. I do not kave full knowledge of that. But I have read in a book of Naturopathy that the virus, bacteria, etc take different forms in different environments. The structure of these itself changes according to the environment. For example the form of virus in atmosphere will be one type. When the same virus enters a human/animal body, it will change its form. Its form will change accordingly to the health condition of the body.

5)There are four things:-
a)Jada(liveless, example:- dead objects like machines, stones, soil, water, etc). They are just molecules and atoms.

b)Living things:-= Plants and animals, Eg:- These are also atoms and molecules. But have additional thing called cell which has a definite structure and characteristics.

c)Chaitanya= Soul . Animals:- These have soul in addition to the body. There are two categories here:- 1)Intelligent less animal or less intelligent animals= also called as just animal. 2)Intelligent animal= Human beings.

d)God also comes in the category chaitanya since he is also a soul. But he is above all, since he is bodyless and truth(always constant), he can be considered in separate category.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by nivi » 28 Apr 2009

Mbhat,

If you are not a pbk then what do you know about pbk's Bhakti?? What's all that rambling about..

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by pbkindiana » 29 Apr 2009

shivsena wrote:
Good question: According to me, any prayer or rememberence or ritual done out of body-consciousness is Bhakti and anything done in complete soul-consciousness(after God-realisation and self-realisation) is Gyan(truth); so going by this definition, all 3 worlds are practising Bhakti and true Gyan-marg will start only in future when Ram= Shiv.
I absolutely agree with you, bhaiyah.
There is no percentage in Bhakti or in Gyan; either you are in Bhakti or you are in Gyan.
I had asked for the percentage of Bhakti, as arjunbhai accepted that fact that there is an element of Bhakti in Advanced Knowledge; i believe that all BKs and PBKs are just doing 100% subtle Bhakti as no one really knows the personified form of ShivBaba.
Instead of asking arjun regarding the percentage of Bhakti in the pbk community, do you know the percentage of bakti in you??? I am very sure that none of us know the percentage of bakti we are practising, so for heaven's sake don't ask illogical questions such as the percentage of Bhakti or when or the time for the exact dates for events to take place as none of us has attained perfection to know exactly about every fact of this study.

Om Shanti --- indie

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by shivsena » 01 May 2009

pbkindiana wrote: Instead of asking arjun regarding the percentage of Bhakti in the PBK community, do you know the percentage of bakti in you??? I am very sure that none of us know the percentage of bakti we are practising, so for heaven's sake don't ask illogical questions such as the percentage of Bhakti or when or the time for the exact dates for events to take place as none of us has attained perfection to know exactly about every fact of this study.
Om Shanti --- indie
Dear indiana,
Good to hear from you after a long long time. If fact we were missing you and wondering where have you gone.

I have 100% Bhakti in me, just like all BKs and PBKs. I have said repeatedly that during the shooting period(brahma ki raat) no one is in Gyan-marg and both the bk-pbk worlds are doing the subtle shooting of Bhakti-marg. I had asked the percentage of Bhakti to arjunbhai because most PBKs claim that they are in Gyan-marg but there is also some element of Bhakti in them; so i wanted to know how much percentage of Bhakti is there in teachings of Advance Party, which again contradicts the Murli point "when there is Gyan there is no Bhakti and when there is Bhakti there is no Gyan". So i wanted to prove to arjun Bhai that there is no such thing as percentage in either Gyan marg or in Bhakti marg; it is "all or none phenomenon."

shivsena.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by arjun » 01 May 2009

shivsena wrote:So i wanted to prove to arjun Bhai that there is no such thing as percentage in either Gyan marg or Bhakti marg; it is "all or none phenomenon."
What about the numerous Sakar Murlis which say that everything passes through sato, rajo and tamo stages? Does that not mean percentage?

If your statement is true then there should not be four Ages, but only two in a Kalpa - Golden Age and Iron Age. :D

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by shivsena » 01 May 2009

arjun wrote: What about the numerous Sakar Murlis which say that everything passes through sato, rajo and tamo stages? Does that not mean percentage?
The numerous Sakar Murlis mention about the subtle Bhakti-marg shooting which passes through 3 stages; Murlis never mention that Gyan passes through 3 stages; true Gyan never takes anyone in girti kalaa but it always takes souls in udti kalaa.
If your statement is true then there should not be four Ages, but only two in a Kalpa - Golden Age and Iron Age. :D
In the broad drama everything passes through 4 stages and so likewise everything in the subtle drama also passes through 4 stages; this is the most important fact which BKs and PBKs fail to realise and accept.

shivsena.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by bansy » 01 May 2009

I have not understood this broad drama and subtle drama thing.

It seems the broad drama can be broken down into subtle dramas which can be broken down into more subtle and more subtler etc.

So in essence, the sum of it all, well it is just one single drama ?

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by shivsena » 04 May 2009

bansy wrote:I have not understood this broad drama and subtle drama thing.
Broad drama is the 5000 year drama and subtle drama is when Shiv started narrating the Murlis from 1965.
It seems the broad drama can be broken down into subtle dramas which can be broken down into more subtle and more subtler etc. So in essence, the sum of it all, well it is just one single drama ?
Drama is not a thing which can be broken down into smaller pieces; There is a subtle drama going on within the broad drama; this most important fact has to be understood first to really understand the secrets hidden in the gems of knowledge. Unfortunately all BKs and most PBKs are sleeping over this important fact and need to wake up if they have to understand the Godly knowledge in totality.[Murli point: "behad ka drama koi nahin jaanta."]

shivsena.

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by pbkindiana » 06 May 2009

shivsena wrote:

Broad drama is the 5000 year drama and subtle drama is when Shiv started narrating the Murlis from 1965.
Dear Bhai,

If Shiv started narrating Murlis fr 1965, then why are we still in the dark? When Shiv speaks, then it is just the one scripture of knowledge which is called the Gita of Knowledge and through it there is salvation for 21 births.

Om Shanti -- indie

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Re: Percentage Bhakti in PBK

Post by arjun » 06 May 2009

shivsena wrote:So i wanted to prove to arjun Bhai that there is no such thing as percentage in either Gyan marg or Bhakti marg; it is "all or none phenomenon."
shivsena wrote:In the broad drama everything passes through 4 stages and so likewise everything in the subtle drama also passes through 4 stages;
Doesn't your second statement contradict your first statement? When something passes through four stages does it not mean percentage?

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