Murli points on Ram

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shivsena
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Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 05 Dec 2007

Dear pbk brothers.

I am starting a new post where i will post all the important Murli points on Ram spoken by God Shiva; kindly churn on them deeply and decide for yourself whether Ram is prajapita or Bharat (as taught by advance knowledge) or practical form of ShivBaba in 100% incorporeal stage.
  • Murli 18-8-69, 'Ram kaha jaata hai bap ko' (Ram is called Father); so obviously Ram cannot be Bharat.

    Murli 12-2-90, ''Ram ek parampita paramatma hai, jisco Ishwar bhi kahete hain aur bhagwan bhi kahete hain"(Ram is parampita paramatma who is also called Ishwar or bhagwan ie God); so how can Ram be prajapita or Bharat??

    Murli 12-10-99; "Ram kaha jaata hai parampita paramatma ko, issliye gaya jaata hai Gyan- surya pragata, agyan andher vinash"(Ram is parampita paramatma that is why it is sung when the sun-ocean of knowledge rises then all darkness of ignorance will vanish.)

    Murli 14-4-76; ''Ram kaha jaata hai ShivBaba ko'' ; Shiva sees Ram as ShivBaba in the 100% incorporeal stage and is describing his final stage and that is why Shiva has never said in any Murli that Ram is Bharat or prajapita.

    Murli 20-2-74; ''Sarva-shaktivan ek bap hi hai jisko Ram bhi kahete hain'' (omnipotent Father is also called Ram) and only when He comes that there will be unity in pbk family.

    Murlis 8-3-01; 'It is said, "sarva ka sadgati-daata ek Ram"; He is only Gyan ka sagar and patit-pavan bap' ; it is very clear that only when Ram comes as ShivBaba then there will be sadgati first of PBKs, then of BKs and then the whole world wll experience Ram-rajya.

    Murli 18-9-02; ''Hey prabhu, hey Ram, dukh ke time sab kahenge ki bhagwan ko Yaad karo''( Oh God Oh Ram, everyone will remember God when sufferings reach their zenith) ; this is first going to happen in the pbk family and then BKs and outside world.
This is just the beginning of hundreds of Murli points which refer to Ram as God(in 100% incorporeal stage); i will be posting 2-3 points every week and as and when i come across a important point while studying the Murlis; so my pbk brothers are requested to give them a serious thought.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram.

Post by john » 05 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:This is just the beginning of hundreds of Murli points which refer to Ram as God(in 100% incorporeal stage); I will be posting 2-3 points every week and as and when I come across a important point while studying the Murlis; so my PBK Brothers are requested to give them a serious thought.
ShivsenaBhai

Can you clarify whether you are saying Ram is another soul other than Shiva that achieves the 100% incorporeal stage and becomes God, or are you simply saying Ram is another name given to the already 100% incorporeal God Father Shiva?

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Re: Murli points on Ram.

Post by shivsena » 06 Dec 2007

john wrote: Can you clarify whether you are saying Ram is another soul other than Shiva that achieves the 100% incorporeal stage and becomes God, or are you simply saying Ram is another name given to the already 100% incorporeal God Father Shiva?
Dear john Bhai.

Shiva is always zero (incorporeal) and never attached to body, so we cannot say that Shiva is achieving 100% incorporeal stage; Ram's soul is different from Shiva (zero), whose bodily name in this birth is Virendra Dev Dixit and by his intense effort he achieves the 100% incorporeal stage and becomes living ShivBaba (Ram=shiv combined become Godfather); neither Shiva alone or Ram alone can be called Godfather; that is why it is said that there is no God on this earth during the 4 ages as both become combined only during Purshottam Sangamyug. You can say Shiva is theoritical abstract God with whom no one can relate, and Ramshivbaba is the practical concrete personification of Godfather (rudra) with whom only 108 rudra souls will be able to relate. The name of Ram cannot be given to bindi Shiva as it is said in Murlis that ''meri bindi ka nam shiv hai, woh kabhi badalta nahin". (bindi is always Shiva, bindi cannot be called Ram)

shivsena.

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Post by john » 06 Dec 2007

OK, if you say Ram is God and is separate from Shiva, then which one is to be remembered. How does this tally with the ubiquitous "Remember me alone" in Sakar Murli, which one alone is remembered?
neither Shiva alone or Ram alone can be called Godfather
I have to disagree in that in Murlis it does say Shiva alone is God and Father.

In Murlis it is said (of Shiva), 'I have been given many names'. Surely Ram is one of them?

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Post by shivsena » 06 Dec 2007

john wrote:OK, if you say Ram is God and is separate from Shiva, then which one is to be remembered. How does this tally with the ubiquitous "Remember me alone" in Sakar Murli, which one alone is remembered?
Only Ram in his 100% nirakari stage is to be remembered. Bindishiva cannot be remembered and there is no benefit in remembering bindishiv alone; BKs are remembering bindishiv in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani and there has been no benefit for last 60 years and PBKs are remembering Bindishiv in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit for last 20 years and again there is no benefit; both are heading towards total durgati. So, only when Ram reaches the nirakari stage in the near future and at that time those souls who recognise Him and remember Him shall be liberated from body-consciousness and will attain the nirakari stage like Rambap numberwise; and in the meanwhile this shooting period is given as the time of study before the final exam of recognition of Ram's nirakari stage.

Shooting period is not given for rememberence, as it is said in Murlis that rememberence has to be accurate and accurate rememberence will come into play only when Ram=shiv in the near future (purshottam Sangamyug).

shivsena

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Post by john » 06 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:Only Ram in his 100% nirakari stage is to be remembered ; bindishiva cannot be remembered and there is no benefit in remembering bindishiv alone;
Revised Sakar Murli dated 11/07/03 published by BKs
Your intellect goes towards Shiv Baba. Others would look at the human body. You forget your own body and also the body of this Dada. You have to become soul conscious. You mustn’t remember this one’s body. Shiv Baba is teaching us Raja Yoga through this one. He alone is knowledge-full, Trikaldarshi. At this time, He sits here and tells us the secrets of the beginning, the middle and the end.
Revised Sakar Murli dated 11/07/03 published by BKs
There are many Brahma Kumars and Kumaris. They have received knowledge. The Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul, who is the Ocean of Knowledge, is also called the Ocean of Happiness. It is also sung: Remover of Sorrow and Bestower of Happiness. Only Shiv Baba is that. So many different names have been given to Him. There is a lot of praise of Him. People sing: “Har, Har”, that is, Remover of Sorrow, remove our sorrow. They sing this to God. However, because of not knowing God, they say this to Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. “Dev, Dev, Mahadev”. They have forgotten Shiva and say it to Shankar, “Har, Har, Mahadev”. Neither Brahma nor Vishnu would be called Mahadev. Both of them have a physical part. Shankar only resides in the Subtle Region. Only the Purifier who removes your sorrow is the one Incorporeal God. Shankar would not be called the Purifier. All the praise is of One. The two forms of Vishnu are Lakshmi and Narayan or Radhe and Krishna and they have their separate births.

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Post by shivsena » 07 Dec 2007

Dear john Bhai.

Before we proceed any further on how to remember ShivBaba, let me ask you a personal question; How do you remember ShivBaba???(God); do you remember Shiva in Paramdham or in the body of late Dada Lekhraj or in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit??

How did you remember God when you were a non-bk, when you became a bk and now when you have become a reforming bk; this is what i wish to know. Please write your method and then i will write my methodology of remembering ShivBaba.

shivsena.

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Post by john » 07 Dec 2007

I am very interested to know if the mentioning in Murli of Ram is a seperate soul or whether it is just another name used for ShivBaba, which Shiva uses because he knows some Hindus believe Ram to be God.
Murli 14-4-76; ''Ram kaha jaata hai ShivBaba ko'' ; Shiva sees Ram as ShivBaba in the 100% incorporeal stage and is describing his final stage and that is why Shiva has never said in any Murli that Ram is Bharat or Prajapita.
In this example, could you explain which is the English (literal) translation and which is your own interpretation? Maybe it would be better, if not too much trouble, to have your own interpretation in a different colour from the literal translation, to save any confusion?

I would be very interested to see any English versions of the Murlis that you have quoted to see how the BKs had translated them, do you have any, or does anyone? In the limited collection of Murlis I have, most references to GodFather are called ShivBaba, yet you have produced quotes from Murlis with references to Ram. It could be a long shot but I wonder if in translation the BKs ever substitute the name Ram for Shiva?

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Post by shivsena » 07 Dec 2007

john wrote:I am very interested to know if the mentioning in Murli of Ram is a seperate soul or whether it is just another name used for ShivBaba, which Shiva uses because he knows some Hindus believe Ram to be God
If Ram is another name for bindi ShivBaba, then the question arises who is the original soul in Virendra Dev Dixit and what is his effort and why should Ram be associated with ShivBaba at all (unless Ram in 100% nirakari stage is ShivBaba himself-indistinguishable from bindi shiv); any soul who does not attain 100% nirakari stage cannot be associated with Shiva and when Ram attains the 100% nirakari stage then all the titles and acts of Shiva (which are depicted in the picture if bindishivbaba) are then conferred on to Ramshivbaba who becomes Bap-teacher-Satguru in practical and becomes the living seed of the human Kalpa tree (bindi Shiva is not the seed of the human Kalpa tree as shiv supposedly stays in some Paramdham above for 4900 years - seed of the Kalpa tree has to be on this earth for 5000 years and this is applicable only to Ramshivbaba)

shivsena

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Who is Alaf??

Post by shivsena » 07 Dec 2007

A very important Murli point on Alaf:

Murli 22-4-05; ''Alaf bigar kaam kaise chalega; ek Alaf ka hi pataa nahin toh baki toh bindi-bindi ho jaati hai; Alaf ke saath bindi dene se fayeda hai; Alaf ka nischay nahin, toh baki baaton mein jaana time waste karna hai.'' (English translation : How can things work without Alaf; if you do not know who is Alaf then everything becomes bindi-bindi; there is benefit only if you associate bindi with Alaf; If you do not have nischay-faith in Alaf, then everything else is a waste of time)

In the above statement of Shiva, it becomes very clear that remembering bindi alone is of no use and that bindi should always be remembered together with Alaf. Now, who is this Alaf???(There is no cassette or cd which describes in detail as to who is Alaf - if arjunbhai can provide the cd no. where Alaf is described in detail then he would be doing us a great favour in solving this riddle of who is Alaf).

To me, Alaf is 100% nirakari stage of Ram's soul and when we remember Alaf, then bindi shiv is automatically incorporated in Ram's 100% incorporeal Stage as both are inseperable from each other. This is what i feel.

shivsena.

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Post by john » 07 Dec 2007

Revised Sakar Murli dated 17/07/03 published by BKs
You understand that you now belong to Shiv Baba. You definitely have to remember Shiv Baba. When children are adopted, they are aware that they were previously children of So-and-so, and that they are now children of someone else. Their heart moves away from their real parents and becomes attached to the parents who adopt them. Here, too, you would say that you are the adopted children of Shiva Baba. In that case, what is the benefit in remembering the physical Father?
You understand that Shiv Baba teaches every day. It is not that you have to remember the corporeal one
It is accurate that God, the Father, is the Father. He is incorporeal. The mother cannot be incorporeal. Since the Father is incorporeal, He would surely have to come here in order to introduce Himself and give you your inheritance.
In the last quote it says GodFather is incorporeal, not that he is becoming incorporeal. It also explains how he would have to come from another place to introduce himself.
The Father is knowledge-full and blissful. That Incorporeal Father is giving us knowledge. No corporeal human being can be called God. People here call Him omnipresent. You children now understand that God, the Father, is the one and only Incorporeal Shiva who is never sustained.

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Post by andrey » 08 Dec 2007

Dear brother shivsena,

Please, refer to what is written on the picture of the Trimurti: REMEMBER: (1) No human soul can bestow mukti of jeevan-mukti to anyone, including the self. (5) a soul cannot become God.

If the soul of Ram has not yet reached the 100 % incorporeal stage then it means it is still the time for upliftment and the soul of Shiva is playing his part, and we can remember him. If he reaches his 100% incorporeal stage then it is time for him to slowly start coming down, is not it. So should we remember this descending stage?

If you say that we have to remember the human soul in 100% nirakari stage instead of the Supreme Soul with his everlasting 100% and above nirakari stage, then please, explain how do you tally your suggestion with these facts:

When the Supreme Soul Shiva comes in the body of Brahma Baba he says: "Remember Me". At that time the human soul of corporeal Ram is not visible at all, and it is not he who has spoken these words. So does the Supreme Soul Shiva misleads us when he says "Remember me" through the body of Brahma Baba and what does he mean, according to your understanding.

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Post by shivsena » 09 Dec 2007

A simple question to all BKs and PBKs.

It is said that God cannot be seen with physical eyes but can be seen only with the third eye of knowledge; What is this third eye of knowledge and which God do we see with this third eye??

Views of my brothers are awaited.
shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 09 Dec 2007

Murli 16-12-04; Shiva says "unko pukara jaata hai, Hey patit-pavan; kahete rahete hain patit-pavan sita-Ram arthat patiton ko pavan banane wale Ram aao; Baba aakar humko pavan banao". (English translation: "He is called patit-pavan; they keep on calling patit-pavan sita-Ram meaning Ram please come and make the impure into pure; Baba come and make us pure")

In the above Murli Shiva clearly says that Ram is patit-pavan Baba and even in 2004 no one has become pure(inspite of Shiva being there for more than 60 years) and everyone is calling Ram to make them pure.
shivsena

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Post by shivsena » 09 Dec 2007

Murli 4-5-90; Shiva says " Kissi ko bhi ek Rambap ki baaton ke sivaya doosri koi bhi baaten nahin sunani hai. Sivaya Ram ke doosri baat sunana issko dhutipana kaha jaata hai; yeh dhutipana chodo; tum sabhi atmaon ko batao ki tum ek Ram se Yoga lagao; sabhi sitaon ka ek Ram se Yoga judwao; tumara dhanda hi yeh hai; bas yeh paigaam dete raho".
(English translation: no one should be told anything except things about Rambap only; if you talk about anything else, except Ram, then it is useless talk-gossip; you tell all souls to have Yoga only with Ram; enable all sitas(souls) to have connection with Ram; this is your business; just keep on giving this message.")

In the above Murli Shiva clearly says to have Yoga with Ram and not with bindi (because Yoga itself means intellectual connection with God and the intellect of Shiva is Ram and mind of Shiva is brahma-Krishna; so we have to remember the bindi-swaroop incorporeal stage of Ram's soul which can only be seen with the third eye of knowledge.)
shivsena.

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