Murli points on Ram

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Churning about the opening of the Third Eye

Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Dec 2007

Shivsena thank you for sharing your churnings on "What is the third eye of knowledge and what do we see with this third eye". However, as someone who has studied Raja Yoga with the BKWSU I disagree with the conclusion that you draw i.e.
The BKs feel that they have the third eye of knowledge whereby they see bindishiv in the body of Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani);
Can you explain more how you came about this interpretation of what BKs understand regarding this matter? Thanks

Your post seems to attribute a physical dimension to the third eye being opened which I have never encountered before. Has your study really led you to believe that BKs feel that when their third eye gets opened they are able to literally "see" souls?

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Post by sparkal » 13 Dec 2007

And what about the seer of the three aspects of time through the third eye?

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Looking to understand better

Post by abrahma kumar » 13 Dec 2007

Hi shivsena, I have not lost sight of the fact that your post referred to the "the third Eye of knowledge" and not to an extra organ for seeing.
sparkal wrote:And what about the seer of the three aspects of time through the third eye?
Hi Sparkal am not sure whether it was my post that instigated your question regarding souls being "Trikaldarshi", however your post also raises a number of additional questions.

Is the "sight" referred to in your question more to do with a soul having an "awareness" rather than with the soul being able to 'see' things of the "time dimension"?

As a result of our third eye of knowledge having been opened by God, Shiva, do we as BKs really experience time as a phenomena that can be seen

regards
abek
are we headed off-topic?

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Post by pbkdivya » 14 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:the intellect of Shiva is Ram and mind of Shiva is Brahma-Krishna;
Dear shivsena Bhai,

If Shiv has a mind, then Shiva must be the first one to become the conqueror of the mind, as it is said, the conqueror of the mind is the conqueror of the world. God doesn't have a mind, it is only the humans who have the mind. Supreme Soul Shiva is always ever-pure for the very reason that He doesn't possess a mind. Even when He enters in any human, He will never be coloured by their impurity. Supreme Soul Shiv possesses only an intellect and never a mind. Shiv is always in the incorporeal stage because of devoid of having a mind. The rest of the souls including Ram, Krishna possess a mind to degrade their elevated stage. If Father Shiv possesses a mind too, then there will be no one to cause upliftment to the human race.
Murli 4-5-90; Shiva says " Kissi ko bhi ek Rambap ki baaton ke sivaya doosri koi bhi baaten nahin sunani hai. Sivaya Ram ke doosri baat sunana issko dhutipana kaha jaata hai; yeh dhutipana chodo; tum sabhi atmaon ko batao ki tum ek Ram se Yoga lagao; sabhi sitaon ka ek Ram se Yoga judwao; tumara dhanda hi yeh hai; bas yeh paigaam dete raho".
(English translation: no one should be told anything except things about Rambap only; if you talk about anything else, except Ram, then it is useless talk-gossip; you tell all souls to have Yoga only with Ram; enable all sitas (souls) to have connection with Ram; this is your business; just keep on giving this message.")

In the above Murli Shiva clearly says to have Yoga with Ram and not with bindi (because Yoga itself means intellectual connection with God and the intellect of Shiva is Ram and mind of Shiva is Brahma-Krishna; so we have to remember the bindi-swaroop incorporeal stage of Ram's soul which can only be seen with the third eye of knowledge.)
It is always mentioned in the Murlis that to have remembrance with the incorporeal in the corporeal. To have remembrance only with the corporeal body of Ram is non-beneficial as Rambap still hasn't equalized his stage to ShivBaba. Also it is said in the Murlis that remember shiv and not shav (body). To remember an impure person is to degrade our stage. It is logical and beneficial to have remembrance with Rambap after he has attained the 100% incorporeal stage but not now.

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Post by admin » 14 Dec 2007

pbkdivya, please check your personal messages via the linkat the top of the page.

See also, How to make quotes, lists, edit, add user icon etc.

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Post by suryavanshi » 14 Dec 2007

Shivsena wrote:whose bodily name in this birth is Veerendra Dev Dixit and by his intense effort he achieves the 100% incorporeal stage
Can you expand how does he (soul of Ram whose bodily name is Virendra Dev Dixit) acheive the 100% nirakari (incorporeal) stage?

Or, in other words, what is the meaning of "intense efforts"?

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Post by pbkdivya » 14 Dec 2007

shivsena wrote:The name of Ram cannot be given to bindi Shiva as it is said in Murlis that ''meri bindi ka nam Shiv hai, woh kabhi badalta nahin". (bindi is always Shiva, bindi cannot be called Ram)
shivsena Bhai,

Only shiv's soul is called by Shiva and the rest of the names are for the bodies. So when Supreme Soul Shiv enters into a body, then the soul of Shiv becomes ShivBaba. The name of the body of the present Chariot of Father Shiv is Virendra Dev Dixit. So my question is:- How did the name "Ram" is attributed to veerandra dev dixit? Why is it "Rambap" and not "Veerendrabap"?

Does "Ram" symbolize 'victory' and the name "Ram" is not given to the human body. So when Virendra Dev Dixit became the conqueror of the mind, then automatically Virendra Dev Dixit is conferred to the title of "Ram".

I do not know much of Indian mythology. Is there any myths in Bhakti that indicates the entrance of S S Shiv in a human body as it is said:- "Bhakti is based on whatever is happening in Confluence Age."

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Post by shivsena » 14 Dec 2007

pbkdivya wrote:If Shiv has a mind, then Shiva must be the first one to become the conqueror of the mind, as it is said, the conqueror of the mind is the conqueror of the world. God doesn't have a mind, it is only the humans who have the mind. Supreme Soul Shiva is always ever-pure for the very reason that He doesn't possess a mind. Even when He enters in any human, He will never be coloured by their impurity. Supreme Soul Shiv possesses only an intellect and never a mind. Shiv is always in the incorporeal stage because of devoid of having a mind. The rest of the souls including Ram, Krishna possess a mind to degrade their elevated stage. If Father Shiv possesses a mind too, then there will be no one to cause upliftment to the human race.
Dear divya.

We were always taught in advance knowledge that just as a soul has mann-buddhi-sanskar, so also the Supreme Soul has mind (mann is brahma) -- intellect (buddhi is Shankar) and Vishnu is sanskar. Were you not taught these things when you took the 7 days Advance Course? Murli also says, "jaisi atma waise paramatma" (this does not mean that atma is bindi, so paramatma is also a bindi), it means that just as a soul has mind-intellect and sanskars so the Supreme Soul also has mind-intellect-sanskars. The whole study is to know what are these; bindi (dot) is just a representation of soul and Supreme Soul on paper; remembering bindi has never given sadgati to anyone for last 70 years. This is what i feel.

shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 12 Jan 2008

Om Shanti. The draft translation of an extract from VCD no.809, dated 16.11.07 at TPgudem which deals with the subject of incorporeal and corporeal Ram:

"So, it has been said – ShivBaba also has a name. When is ‘also’ added? (Someone said something) Yes, Shiv name exists anyways, but that is not the name of the body. That never changes. That is the name of the point. When are names coined? Names are based on the bodies, names are based on the tasks (that are performed) and are tasks performed through bodies or does the point perform the tasks by jumping here and there? The tasks are performed only through a body. So, what is the name of that body, in which the point of light Shiv enters to purify the sinful ones? It is not Brahma. He did not purify the sinful ones by narrating knowledge through Brahma.

So, I too have a name. Which name? Purifier of the sinful ones; people sing – Sita Ram. So, is the purifier of the sinful ones One or two? (Someone said – There are two) Are there two? (Someone said – there is only one) Is the incorporeal one called Ram or is the corporeal one also called Ram? It is said – the bestower of true salvation upon everyone is Ram. The bestower of true salvation upon everyone, i.e. Sadguru is one. When that incorporeal Shiv Ram comes from above, in whom does He enter? Does He come in the corporeal Ram or in the incorporeal Ram? In the corporeal. You all are Sitas and I am Father Ram. I do not have any Father. What? Who says this? This is the task of Shiv. Not even Baba. Shiv does not have any Father.

He is the purifier of the sinful ones. But for that a body is required. Even in order to apply the colour of company, what is required? A body is required. All the human beings have become sinful only by coming in the company of bodies. When they got coloured by the company of many, they became sinful and by getting coloured by the company of one highest on high Father everyone gets transformed from sinful ones to pure ones."

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Post by shivsena » 15 Jan 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Who are waris quality (Heirs) souls ??
Is it 9,00,000 or 16,000 or 108 and from whom do they receive their inheritance??
And how would they be separated?? [on the basis of their purusharth or on the basis of their beliefs!! ]

Please give your views.
shivsena

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Post by suryavanshi » 19 Jan 2008

Who is the Father of Ram? How does Ram acheive the nirakaari stage? Who makes Him pavan from patit?

Father of Prajapita (Ram) and Brahma (Soul of Brahma/Dada Lekhraj) is Shiv Baap.

Murli Point: "Prajapita Brahma aur unkaa baap hain Shiv" dated 22/6/1965

Prajapita and Brahma are two different souls.

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Post by new knowledge » 19 Jan 2008

suryavanshi wrote:Who is the Father of Ram?
How many Fathers have we? Father has no Father.
How does Ram acheive the nirakaari stage?
How does Ram loose his Nirakari stage?
Who makes Him pavan from patit?
Who make Him patit from pavan?

Brother suryavanshi, the mechanism of upliftment & downfall of all souls is already stored in the eternal World Drama like in-built programme of a computer. If interference of Bindi Shiv from the outside Paramdham is essential for the upliftment process; then why the interference of somebody from outside the World Drama is not essential for the degradation process?? Upliftment & downfall are opposite processes. Then logically we have to accept that either the mechanism of both of these processes is already stored in the World Drama or mechanism of none of these processes is stored in the World Drama; but the mechanism of a process (e.g, downfall) is stored in the World Drama & its opposite process (upliftment) is not stored in the World Drama - is that logical? With respect to this logic, please give answers to my queries mentioned above.

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Post by suryavanshi » 19 Jan 2008

How many Fathers have we? Father has no Father.
According to Murli, we have two fathers, one is the Father of souls (ShivBaba) and other is the Father of humanity (Prajapita)

" ShivBaba aur Prajapita- Aatmaaon kaa baap aur sarva manushya matra kaa baap. Yah point samjhane ki bahoot acchi hain" mu. dated 12/1/1975
Brother suryavanshi, the mechanism of upliftment & downfall of all souls is already stored in the eternal World Drama like in-built programme of a computer. If interference of Bindi Shiv from the outside Paramdham is essential for the upliftment process; then why the interference of somebody from outside the World Drama is not essential for the degradation process?? Upliftment & downfall are opposite processes. Then logically we have to accept that either the mechanism of both of these processes is already stored in the World Drama or mechanism of none of these processes is stored in the World Drama; but the mechanism of a process (e.g, downfall) is stored in the World Drama & its opposite process (upliftment) is not stored in the World Drama - is that logical? With respect to this logic, please give answers to my queries mentioned above.
A source of light is required to make darkness non-existent or to come out of darkness. When there is absence of this source of light, there is darkness by default. The darkness is not created but absence of source of light reveals the darkness. Similarly, negativity is not created out of something but a mere absence of positivity is negativity. Otherwise, negativity does not have its own way to exist. So, Supreme Soul Shiv (through the body of number one soul) is the source of light who removes the darkness for 2500 years .i.e. makes us soul conscious which last for 2500 years according to the drama. It is because we lapse into body consciousness (absence of light), we experience downfall (come into darkness).

Soul consciousness is "created" (active process where energy is acquired) and body consciousness is not created but it is a passive process where energy is lost. It is simple that in the active process a source of energy(Supreme Soul Shiv) is required but in the passive process where energy is lost there is no requirement of outside source of energy.It is our mistake to loose energy (i.e. become body conscious after 2500 years) and come under the rule of Ravan.

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Post by new knowledge » 20 Jan 2008

suryavanshi wrote:A source of light is required to make darkness non-existent or to come out of darkness ... etc
Brother suryavanshi, do you mean to say that darkness (of ignorance, negativity & body-consciousness are original nature of a soul & enlightened stage, positivity & soul-consciousness are externally imposed on soul??

This topic is not related to the main subject of this thread. Let's discuss about it elsewhere. Let shivsena quote some more Murli points here. He is doing his job very well.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by suryavanshi » 15 Mar 2008

1) "Dukh mein Yaad toh kartein hain na - Hey Bhagwaan, Hey Ram. Ram bhi niraakaar bhagwaan ko hi kahtein hain.Niraakaar hi oonch te oonch bhagwaan hain." mu 13/12/1985

2) "Tum jaante ho ki Shri Ram ki aatmaan toh jaroor poonarjanma leti rehtin hogi. Yahaan hi purusharth kartein rehtein hain. Itnaa naam baalaa hain Ram kaa, toh jaroor aayenge, oonko knowledge leni padegi" mu 19/9/1989

3) ShivBaba, baba bhi hain, saajan bhi hain, sabhi sitaaon kaa Ram hain. Wahi patit- pawan hain. mu 27/4/01

4) "Ram ko jaantein nahi. Shiv ki jo pooja jo ki jaati hain oonko Ram nahi kahenge, ShivBaba kahnaa shobhtaa hain" mu 18/3/1999

5) Ishwar ko Ram nahi kahaa jaataa. Bahut log Ram-Ram ki mala japte hain paratu Yaad toh Bhagwaan ko kartein hain. Naam Ram kaa right hain kyonki yah toh koi jaantein nahi ki ishwar kaa naam roop kyaa hain? mu . 19/12/2001

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