Murli points on Ram

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 01 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote:I am in the dark as far as truth is concerned. I do not know what is the absolute truth. But i know one thing for sure that God ShivBaba and his sacchi Gita, which will bring transformation of BKs and PBKs, has yet to come in future and at present PBKs are hearing Krishna ki jhooti Gita. This is a 100% certainity and this is where i differ from my BK and PBK Brothers and this is what i wish to convey to them through this forum.
....dear there is no Gita of Krishna.....when we consider Gita as of Krishna's then the same Gita gets 'jhooti'....it is depended on Gita and the Gita readers....similarly it is depended on Murli and childrens to consider what.....when we accept Gita pati bhagwan as Krishna then whatever we say or do according to Murli also goes wrong for considering wrong personality as Gita pati bhagwan....and for your kind information pbk's totally eradicates this concepts....we firmly believe Gita Pati Bhagwan as ShivBaba that is Shiv+Ram(shiv's permanent Chariot) and Krishna as their one of the creation....
[it has been said in Vanis "asatya ko asatya siddh karo toh satya pratyaksha ho jaaega''-meaning: ''just prove what is untruth, then truth will reveal itself.'']
....that is OK...but what you are trying to do is nothing but just playing a blame game.....how do you know the truth when you say for you today there is no shiv nor his permanent Chariot.....you are accepting the knowledge on mere remembrance of Ram's 100% nirakari stage which you yourself accept that he is not completed till and will get completed in near future.....this itself shows your dual characteristics towards Ram.....which means today you don't respect Ram.....and about your way of remembrance it is a joke that you are playing with yourself.....you are making a picture of 100% nirakari so called Ramshivbaba and then remebering.....this is something like dreaming about an ice cream on hot vacation or standing under scorching heat considering it as waterfall.....arey dear this is nothing but a dream.....no clear backgrounds,no solid proofs,no satisfying clarifications nothing....but a stupid dream.....dear just see to that baba had said that "Sundar mela kar diya jab sadguru mila dalal"....now if you are not having real sadguru that too in practical form there is no sadgati for you....
Dear shivsena brother,
We pbk's(or atleast me) believe that Ram plays role of sakari,akari and nirakari(baba had asked us to have practice for this)....nirakari-nirvikari-nirhankari....and we do believe as it is so because if we don't believe him as nirakari then we are indirectly saying that he is not nirvikari that is he is vikari.....and baba has said that "Baap ko patit samajhna sabse bada paap hai"...of course comparing with rest of human soul he is more nirakari,but the thing is that he cannot maintain such qualities forever right now only for the sake of children as they are in Sakar.....so when he attains the forever stage of nirakari or when he becomes shiv baap samaan he will get this whole title forever....but for now he has to come in sakari and akari avastha also only for childrens.....but we know that he is the only permanent Chariot of Shiv and their combine part of Shiv+Baba is the only one who can uplift us.....his body or sharir is patit but from intellect he is Narayan that is Gyaan jal hi jiska ghar hai(Naar-jal,aayan-ghar)....he also undergoes churning of knowledge which is done in akari stage...sukshm manan chintan manthan.....so here you just have to focus that ShivBaba is nirakar in Sakar and this combination is going to uplift our stage.....moreover in Murli baba had said that "Yeh brahma agar kuch ulta bhi karta hai toh iska jimmedar main hoon.Tumhe toh baap samjhaani de rahe hai.Nimitt ke liye main jimmedar hoon baki tumhe to shreemat par chal purusharth karna hai."....so why to think out of the track dear.....just enjoy the Nirakar and Sakar combination.....leaving everything behind....

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 01 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: The main teaching of Advanced Knowledge rests on one fact ie. "Ram is prajapita" and then to say in cds that Ram is paramatma and then to say in another cd that Ram is Sangamyugi Krishna and Ram is Shankar (Murli says that ''Shankar ko prajapita nahin kahenge''), is a clear indication that Baba Dixit (personified Maya) is purposely trying to confuse the PBKs and trying to test the PBKs whether they are able to think independently or not and have the guts to oppose him or not.(Maya se samna karne ki shakti); only those who have a deep study of Murlis and Vanis will have the courage to oppose personified Maya.
Dear shivsena brother,
Role played in different stages give rise to different characters...."Kaam ke adhar pe naam rakhte hai"...Name is kept on behalf of the work or deed....each and every job or work have different stages of completion alongwith the differences of the spiritual stages of soul....i have tried to answer it.....and most important is that no one is trying to confuse anyone....better you don't blame on anyone brother on mere judgement of yours with no sense at all dear....
1)Ram is of course 'prajapita'...Sakar stage
2)Ram is parmatma also playing a supreme role or param role when compared to rest of human souls...parmatama=param(supreme)+atma(soul)=supreme among the souls'
3)Ram is Shankar.....well this is his stage of akari and nirakari(incomplete)....sukshm manan chintan manthan stage
4)Shankar ko prajapita nahi kahenge....of course prajapita is sakari stage and Shankar is akari stage....difference in stages have different responsibilities to play and difference in role or play gives different name....hence Shankar(akari stage) cannot be called as prajapita(sakari stage)...both are different stages of same personality hence difference in name....

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 01 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote:I cannot accept Ram(Gyan surya) taking knowledge from some other soul because i feel that the whole knowledge should emerge in the intellect of Gyan surya Rambap at the right time in this behad ka drama and that is why i am now thinking that Baba dixit may not be Ram's soul at all in the first place and all PBKs have been kept under an illusion by mayavi Krishna.
----dear brother,please elaborate this explanation...cut the scrap and make it clear.....i just want to ask that whom do you believe Shiv's permanent Chariot???...
If one doesn't have complete faith in Father and leave him, that will lead to girti kalaa.
I think that if one has blind faith on any deh-dhari dharm guru (Baba dixit), then one will certainly go in girti kalaa and that is what PBKs(bharatwasis) are experiencing at present and hence leaving The Knowledge and returning back to lokik life. If PBKs were experiencing chadti kalaa then no one would have left Baba Dixit. That is simple logic.
....Murli says that "Pichadi main toh aur bhi hahakar machega.Baap pe anishchay aayega aur goya baap ko chod chale jaayenge."....so it is practically simple dear,how rudra beads will get declared?....there should be exams,right?...those who get pass in exam and still keep faith on ShivBaba will be the numberwise highest of beads while rest will get low seat dear....so nothing new....exams are going on.....everything has been explained clearly....infact our faith should get firm....but on your side i don't know whats going wrong?

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 03 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:
"Yeh Brahma agar kuch ulta bhi karta hai toh iska jimmedar main hoon.Tumhe toh baap samjhaani de rahe hai.Nimitt ke liye main jimmedar hoon baki tumhe to shreemat par chal purusharth karna hai.".

Dear rudraputra.
This is the same dialoque which the BKs tell the PBKs when PBKs go to give them advance knowledge and you are now doing the same. Always remember that only those who swim against the current will reach the top, while those who just flow with the current (without knowing where the current will lead to) will ultimately land up as praja. A bk leaves the mainstream of the world after taking basic Godly knowledge and a pbk leaves the bk world after taking the advance knowledge, but the summit(top) is still not reached until both these platforms of the behad ka world are also conquered; and this will be achieved by only 108 souls who prove that advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita.
...so why to think out of the track dear.....just enjoy the Nirakar and Sakar combination.....leaving everything behind....[/color]
Dear rudraputra.
Only those who think out of track(not just listening to Dadis and cds) will reach the top.
( "108 mein aanaa koi masi ka ghar nahin hai." )
BKs are enjoying remembering nirakar shiv in either Paramdham or in subtle brahma and PBKs are enjoying the nirakaar in Sakar combination(which is never said in Murlis) and it is only 108 who will do gupt purusharth as it is said in Murlis("Bap bhi gupt, bacche bhi gupt, unka purusharth bhi gupt, unka martaba bhi gupt")

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 03 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote: ----dear Brother,please elaborate this explanation...cut the scrap and make it clear....i just want to ask that whom do you believe Shiv's permanent Chariot???...
Dear rudraputra.

My present thoughts are :
At present Virendra Dev Dixit is Krishna's soul ie 84th birth and when Krishna(Bharat) completes his full 84th birth in future, then Shiva will enter(control) Bharat(Krishna) as per the Murli point "I come in Bharat once in 5000 years" and "mein Krishna ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein aataa hun".
At present Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be termed as Chariot of God Shiva(as Krishna is not under the control of Shiva) but he will definitely be the Chariot in future (when Ram=Shiva=Ramshivbaba will control the Chariot). So at present Virendra Dev Dixit alias Krishna alias Bharat is giving his own manmat (advance knowledge) which is responsible for his own downfall and the downfall of PBKs.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 03 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote:At present Veerendra Dev Dixit is Krishna's soul ie 84th birth
....i am still confused my brother....what actually you want to say? are you saying that Baba(whom we pbk's believe) is none other than Krishna's soul or is Krishna's soul that is soul of Dada Lekhraj is handling the whole Chariot?....plzzz make it clear
... when Krishna(Bharat) completes his full 84th birth in future, then Shiva will enter(control) Bharat(Krishna) as per the Murli point "I come in Bharat once in 5000 years" and "mein Krishna ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein aataa hun".
....well first the most important thing, Shiv baap(bindu) doesn't control any of the soul....make this clear in your mind.... shiv doesn't have any hisaab kitaab with any type of soul of any category....the one who controls is not ShivBaap but the permanent Chariot of Shiv that is Ram's soul.....Shiv just uses the organs for giving gyaan or knowledge....rest all is the purusharth of the Chariot....
Yes Bharat is nothing but bhagyashali rath.....Chariot or rath of Ram's soul as sevakram and Krishna's soul as Dada Lekhraj was not the bhagyashali one....it is the present rath of Ram's soul that is bhagyashaali rath or Bharat....so in 5000 years shiv comes only once on this rath or Chariot....no problem,right?
At present Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be termed as Chariot of God Shiva(as Krishna is not under the control of Shiva) but he will definitely be the Chariot in future (when Ram=Shiva=Ramshivbaba will control the Chariot). So at present Veerendra Dev Dixit alias Krishna alias Bharat is giving his own manmat (Advanced Knowledge) which is responsible for his own downfall and the downfall of PBKs.
....stuff of your views doesn't seem to go with your explanations dear....first of all
if Krishna's soul is controlling the Chariot now and uttering false explanations and the whole advance knowledge is nothing but a blunder according to you.....why he not used to do the same at the time when shiv was using his Chariot?....moreover you are too using the same Murli points...is not something going wrong with you and your views and your source of view too?....we pbk's do believe and has explained and clarified(this is what baba had taught us to be with truth) lots of time that yes brahma due to childish nature do interference but as baba had said that "Baap aakarke tumko satya aur asatya ka gyaan dete hai."....he is still sitting on the same Chariot for rectifying or correcting his child's innocence and also makes us well aware of that....he clears the truth and unfolds the mystery...we are not the ones....
Krishna is bachcha or child and Ram is baap or Father...in Murli it had been said that "Baap bachchon ko kitne pyaar se samjhaate hai.Bhal bachche padhai mein dhyaan nahi dete parantu baap toh pyaar ka saagar,gyaan ka saagar hai na.Yeh baat bhi baap tumko kitne achchi reeti samjhaate hai."...
now dear shivsena brother if Father is not seen beating the child for his prank or mischief it doesn't mean that he is not the child's Father.....if child wants to ride on fathers back and if his Father allows the same that doesn't mean that Father is controlled by his child.....of course it is his way of teaching his child,way of putting sanskars on his child.....controlling someone and to be called as Father is not what gyaan is....gyaan makes bold enough to have patience with the drama and to believe in shreemat that satya is gonna win(although it takes lot of time to have victory)....even Ram's soul wants his child to grow ,to understand from its experience....Father wants his child to get mature naturally from gyaan.....when that bull like intellect Krishna's soul really understand's the original part of his Father(whom still he is not able to believe as Father and hence is considering himself the one)at that time he himself will go under control of Ram.....with childish nature of immaturity Krishna's soul rides on his Father's back but when he attain maturity he holds the responsibilty of his Father on his shoulder and hence in Bhaktimarg gaayan is of the "Shankar riding bull and not bull riding Shankar"...

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 03 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote: ....i am still confused my Brother....what actually you want to say? are you saying that Baba(whom we PBK's believe) is none other than Krishna's soul or is Krishna's soul that is soul of Dada Lekhraj is handling the whole Chariot?....plzzz make it clear
Dear rudraputra.

Till few months back i was under the impression that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul and Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is using that body and Ram is doing the purusharth of achieving nirakari stage; but recent evidences from Murlis point out towards the fact that Virendra Dev Dixit himself may be Krishna's soul who has realised his part as Bharat(Krishna) and hence he invented brashta-chari(corrupted) advance knowledge as per the Murli statement "Bharat hi 100% brashta-chari aur Bharat hi 100% shreshta-chari banta hai";
Also Murli states that " Krishna ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein BAP aate hain'' but it is never stated in Murlis that "Ram ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein ShivBaba aate hain".So Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be Ram's soul as it has never been said in Murlis that "Ram takes full 84 births" (it is always said that "Krishna takes full 84 births")

Also it has never been said or indicated in any Murli that Shiv+Krishna enter Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit) after Lekhraj Kirpalani leaves the body in 1969.

So there are many Murli points which clearly point out that Virendra Dev Dixit is not Ram's soul but the 84th birth of Krishna's soul. This leads to a very logical next question : "who then is Lekhraj Kirpalani ???...was he not Krishna's soul in the first place !!!!

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 03 Oct 2009

"Baap aakarke tumko satya aur asatya ka gyaan dete hai."

Is this Baap refering to Baba dixit who is giving advance knowledge at present or is the Murli statement refering to a future date(aakarke) when the real ruhani Bap comes and gives us the real ruhani knowledge to his real ruhani children (which no one will be able to challenge). Just an interpretation of Murli points... one can see it the way one wishes to and that is what is going to divide the Godly family into 900000, 16000 and 108.
..in Murli it had been said that "Baap bachchon ko kitne pyaar se samjhaate hai.Bhal bachche padhai mein dhyaan nahi dete parantu baap toh pyaar ka saagar,gyaan ka saagar hai na.Yeh baat bhi baap tumko kitne achchi reeti samjhaate hai."...
Yes---Baba dixit makes the knowledge so simple to understand that all the old PBKs have really got tired of his explanations and many of the surrendered sisters have left the so called Yagya and many more are on the verge of leaving. If all this simple explanation leads to a breakdown of the pbk family then i have nothing more to say.
Again a matter of interpretation when and which Father will come in future to give such simple explanation of Murli points that the whole family will be united in one brotherhood under one Father.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 04 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: Is this Baap refering to Baba dixit who is giving Advanced Knowledge at present or is the Murli statement refering to a future date(aakarke) when the real ruhani Bap comes and gives us the real ruhani knowledge to his real ruhani children (which no one will be able to challenge). Just an interpretation of Murli points... one can see it the way one wishes to and that is what is going to divide the Godly family into 900000, 16000 and 108.
....dear shivsena Bhai,
i have just tried to highlight the statement that you have made.....probably this is true according to you but don't you see that you are leading to a manmat.....see we all are human beings and our thinking is vikari or viscous numberwise.....so whatever we think is not the solution at all.....solution comes from what ShivBaba wants us to understand.....and how would he makes us understand? by Murli.....so there should be and there is a practical corporeal form of ShivBaba.....but from your point of view there is no practical form and so what you are getting knowledge is from your churning which is nothing but your manmat.....i don't know but how do you believe more in yourself than any other corporeal form of ShivBaba(actually about baba whom you first believed to be as Ram-the Father)....if i am not wrong as per your thesis there is no practical corporeal form of ShivBaba right now and whatever your manthan is, it's true for all.....i hereby wanna salute you for your bravery.....you are directly or indirectly passing your message that for you now there is only one who is understanding ShivBaba's teaching and that is you yourself and perhaps you are also trying to prove that you are the one so called "RAMSHIVBABA"....as such there is no corporeal form for you.....great!!!....going too perfect....
sorry dear about the challenge what you have mentioned even Ram was challenged by Ravan....good is always challenged by evil.....in Murli it had been said that "Baap ki to ant tak glaani hoti hai.Pehle number pe glaani hai baap ki aur phir yah brahma ki"....so ShivBaba will be challenged dear and has been challenged....but the thing about the ShivBaba is that he is not at all affected by those manavi,danavi challenges.....whether he goes to jail or not.....his work is not going to stop....and this is what happened.....this is just a small example....
Yes---Baba dixit makes The Knowledge so simple to understand that all the old PBKs have really got tired of his explanations and many of the surrendered Sisters have left the so called Yagya and many more are on the verge of leaving. If all this simple explanation leads to a breakdown of the PBK family then i have nothing more to say.
....dear brother why don't you understand that siddharth was also from sanatan dharm but he converted himself to preach Buddhism and left sanatan dharm....similarly with jesus,ibrahim etc etc....here also if any one is running away from Yagya or ShivBaba than it's their religion of conversion....they are not pakke suryavanshi's....but why you are so interested in those topics?....arey in Murli it has been said that "Baap tum bachchon ka haath kabhi nahi chodte.Yeh toh bachche hai jo baar baar baap ko chod chale jaate hai."....so why to worry...they are of asuri sanskars then why to have chat on them?...instead i can say that the number of them are still there as surrendered ones....why don't you tally their efforts?
Again a matter of interpretation when and which Father will come in future to give such simple explanation of Murli points that the whole family will be united in one brotherhood under one Father.
matter of interpretations doesn't matter at all dear, if the interpretations are made by me or you.....ShivBaba is the only one who brings the truth from anything from everything and from nothing too....

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 04 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: Till few months back i was under the impression that Veerendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul and Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is using that body and Ram is doing the purusharth of achieving nirakari stage; but recent evidences from Murlis point out towards the fact that Veerendra Dev Dixit himself may be Krishna's soul who has realised his part as Bharat(Krishna) and hence he invented brashta-chari(corrupted) Advanced Knowledge as per the Murli statement "Bharat hi 100% brashta-chari aur Bharat hi 100% shreshta-chari banta hai";
.....OK now you do believe that Baba is not the Ram's soul,right?...if it is so then who is now RAMSHIVBABA for you?....complete 100% Ram?....now with whom do you bond your soul?....how do you Yaad RAMSHIVBABA so called of course?
....plzzzz just put light on the above questions?
Also Murli states that " Krishna ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein BAP aate hain'' but it is never stated in Murlis that "Ram ke 84 janam ke anth ke bhi anth mein ShivBaba aate hain".So Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be Ram's soul as it has never been said in Murlis that "Ram takes full 84 births" (it is always said that "Krishna takes full 84 births")
Also it has never been said or indicated in any Murli that Shiv+Krishna enter Ram(Veerendra Dev Dixit) after Lekhraj Kirpalani leaves the body in 1969.
....well shivsena Bhai in Murli it has said that "Meri koi tithi tareekh nahi hai.Tithi tareekh hoti hi hai Ram aur Krishna ki.Mukhya hai hi do."....now it is clear that for Shiv,Ram and Krishna both are the most important ones coz they play his media's role...."Yeh brahma bhi toh purani joothi hai.Ek joothi gayi toh dusri joothi."....if Ram and Krishna is mukhya then after Krishna shiv should and does enters in Ram.....where Ram is Father and Krishna is child....
now about Ram baba had said that "Ram fail ho gaya toh unke 33 marks kum hue"...(Ram failed that is why his 33 marks got reduced)...
....now could you explain why it is said so?....plzzzzz....

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 07 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:now about Ram Baba had said that "Ram fail ho gaya toh unke 33 marks kum hue"...(Ram failed that is why his 33 marks got reduced)...
....now could you explain why it is said so?....plzzzzz....
Please quote the Murli date and when did Ram fail and which Ram ??

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 08 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: Please quote the Murli date and when did Ram fail and which Ram ??
"Hum nar se Narayan nari se Lakshmi banenge.Fail nahi honge jo kshatriya banenge.Ram fail hua toh 33 marks se kam mili.Toh chandravanshi mein chale gaye."-----------MU 11/10/87

"Ab ramchandra ki puja karte hai,unko yah bhi pata nahi hai ki Ram kaha gaya.Tum jaante ho ki Ram ki aatma toh zaroor punarjanm leti rehti hogi.Yaha imtihan mein napaas hoti hai parantu koi na koi roop mein hogi to zaroor na.Yaha hi purusharth karte rehte hai.Itna naam baal hai Ram ka to zaroor aayenge;unko knowledge leni padegi."--------------- MU 19/9/89
....now i would like you to interpret this in English.....plzzzzzzzz

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 08 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:"Hum nar se Narayan nari se Lakshmi banenge.Fail nahi honge jo kshatriya banenge.Ram fail hua toh 33 marks se kam mili.Toh chandravanshi mein chale gaye."-----------MU 11/10/87
Are there one Ram or two ??
Which Ram goes in chandravanshi and which Ram is ShivBaba ??

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by RudraPutra » 08 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: Are there one Ram or two ??
Which Ram goes in chandravanshi and which Ram is ShivBaba ??

there might be more than one soul who is called as Ram but question here is not that whether there are one Ram or more...question is that whoever Ram is...each one has to undergo process of failure....
...every suryavanshi soul goes to chandravanshi...even Ram who is the permanent Chariot of SHIV also descends from suryavanshi to chandravanshi....

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 11 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote: there might be more than one soul who is called as Ram but question here is not that whether there are one Ram or more...question is that whoever Ram is...each one has to undergo process of failure....
Dear rudraputra.

Can you please define the following terms in Murlis;
Who is Rambap.
Who is Ramshivbaba.
Who is sarva ka sadgati Dataa Ram.
Who is paramatma Ram.
Who is Dilaram Bap(as mentioned in Vanis)
Who is tretawala Ram.

And which Ram underwent the process of failure and when.
shivsena.

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