On the way to Paramdham

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RudraPutra
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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

thanx new knowledge for specially inviting me to chat here.....but before jumping into any of the conversations i would like you to make me clear certain things....
first of all i wanna know your concept in short of course although i have gone through this forum....
Secondly i want to know on which source are you trying to discuss:- Murli or religious scripts or applied, non-applied science or something else....
....and last but not the least your purpose of this forum that is are you aware of the thing and want us to know about it or you are asking us to make you know better of it?
untill you reply i would try to answer on my own way.....waiting for your quick reply.....thanx

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RudraPutra
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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: Recently I've got a Murli point which also refers Anhad, i.e, beyond Unlimited sense of meaning. Read the Murli point, "Had aur Behad ke bhee paar jaanaa hai. Kahaa jaataa hai naa 'Had, Behad se paar', to buddhi main yah gyaan rahta hai, Had, Behad se paar jaanaa hai. Baap ke liye bhee kahaa jaataa hai 'Had, Behad se paar', iskaa bhee arth samaznaa chaahiye naa." (Murli date: 7-2-78 Page. 1) meaning "We have to go beyond also the Limited & Unlimited. It is said 'Beyond Limited, Unlimited, so it lies in the intellect that we have to go beyond Limited, Unlimited. It is also said for the Father 'Beyond Limited, Unlimited', the meaning of this also should be understood".

....dear brother Arjun Bhai had answered you about the same meaning words that has lingual differences....behad and anhad...
about the Murli point that is true that we have to go beyond the limited and unlimited....but limitation and unlimitation of what? that's nothing but the knowledge.....see true knowledge of ShivBaba is been categorised in two dimensions had-limited and behad-unlimited.....but the ultimate goal of both the knowledge is to attain the beejroop stage and this beejroop stage is beyond the limited and unlimited knowledge....

In BKWSU, broad drama is referred as 'Had ka drama', i.e, the drama of Limited sense of meaning & the Confluence Age Drama is referred as 'Behad ka drama', i.e, the drama of Unlimited sense of meaning. Then, does not this Murli point indicate that we have to go beyond both Had (broad drama) & Behad (Confluence Age Drama), i.e, we have to go to Anhad, i.e, drama of beyond Unlimited sense of meaning, Paramdham????
'Had ka drama' is the drama where we play our role irrespect of knowing anything that is the broad drama....but the 'Behad ka drama' is the drama played on this Confluence Age where we get the knowledge(numberwise of course)about who,why,when,where,how etc.....now the question is that why we need knowledge-limited or unlimited whatever?...to know the exact role of ShivBaba the bestower of happiness and to attain the highest point of peace and prosperity and for this we have to practice to attain beejroop stage...which is nothing but the concentrated and encapsulated nature of this gyaan.....hence to move ahead than "had and behad"...

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Re: On way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: Why.....why the Supreme Soul think it necessary to take all souls back to the useless inert Paramdham? Pray reply.
....sorry but i have to make something clear.....Shiv comes in this world to transform the patit world to pavan.....even in Murli it has been stated that "Main patit se patit kaami kaante mein pravesh kar kingflower banata hoon"....so when Ram's soul attains the stage of Shiv then there is no requirement of shiv to stay here because he has created shiv swaroop,he had transformed the beej from impure to pure who himself is now able to take care of his children or the whole human tree(Ram attaining Shiva's stage.....aatma so parmatma)....this shivswaroop then takes us to inert Paramdham because he is panda baap, the guide--- who will guide the entire population of this world to Paramdham.....and we are numberwise panda or guide of our groups(as we are also beejroop atmayein or souls) who will follow that shivswaroop.....similarly in same order we all then descend according to our role in this world....

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Re: On way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: What are the uses of such a dead-silence Paramdham?
....it is nothing but home of all souls,you can say it as godown of souls.....these souls comes into act only in this world as soul act's through body which is made up of 5 elements of this world and Soul World or Paramdham has nothing with these elemental stuff....

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: Then, could I guess that the world human population become ZERO during some period in 2036? But the Advanced Knowledge says that the world human population becomes 9,00,000 in 2036.. Does not your reply go in opposition to the Advanced Knowledge?
....advance knowledge never said that in 2036 the human population is 9 lac....yes it is believed in advance knowledge that till the end of first birth of Satyug human population in this world would be 9 lac.....first birth is of Dada Lekhraj as Krishna....and it's end means the ripe age of Krishna and Radhe that is the period of leaving the body....average age of Satyug dieties are at around 150....so probably after 150 years of Satyug the population is 9 lac....

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote:Does God Shiv live in the inert Paramdham for 4,900 years with complete unconscious, i.e, dead-silence stage?
....in Murli it had been said that "Main kal bhi aaya tha.Aaj bhi aaya hoon.Kal phir aaonga."....this is nothing but the depthness of beejroop stage of Shiva....beejroopstage is so wonderful that although experiencing it for 4900+ years at Paramdham and then coming to this corporeal world is like today and tomorrow.....this is why ShivBaba mentioned so and this is what theory of relativity is.....suppose we are talking to some of our beloved ones for 2-3 hours still we feel that we have started our converstion just few minutes ago....sometimes when we sleep at night and when we wakeup at morning it seems for us that we might have slept only for few minutes instead we had good 6-8 hours sleep.....theory of relativity plays here....

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote: This is exactly what i am not able to understand, how can God Shiva whom we call sat-chaitanya-and anand swaroop, be dwelling in some inert Paramdham above and comes down in 1937 to redeem the world. (which is yet to be redeemed)
...sorry shivsena Bhai but 'sat-chaitanya-and anand swaroop' are the titles for ShivBaba and not for SHIV....
This whole concept of Supreme Soul Shiva and 6 billion souls living in some inert Paramdham above and coming on this world stage at specific times to play their part, is beyond any rational thinking, for the simple reason, as to how do the souls know that it is their time to come to earth, when there is no concept of time in Paramdham.
...well don't take it literally but you can consider it as force of attraction, since you are craving for some scientific reasons,....just trying to feast you the same.....for example when soul playing a role of jesus first reaches to the x % of impurity which is relative to the x % purity maintaining power of christ than christ comes to this world and enters the similar power body of jesus(positive comes into negative) and together they are called as (Jesus)christ ...name of the powerful one(of that time of course)...

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: My dear Brother mbbhat, you mean the corporeal world is surrounded by the incorporeal world, i.e, Paramdham of infinite radius. Thus, according to you, Paramdham is like a sphere of infinite radius. Now, what's meant by 'incorporeal'? If we cannot define the geometrical shape of any object, then that object is believed to be incorporeal. Then how could Paramdham, which according to you has spherical shape, be considerded as 'incorporeal'?
....here i just want to say that for example if i stand on arctic and say Paramdham is above me than what if i stand on antarctic? same there....you might be true that we cannot consider or measure Paramdham by any geometrical means but at this moment we can say that it surrounds whole of our corporeal world which is genuinely believed to be like a shape of circle or sphere.....from mathematical point of view it's like concentrated circles( not exactly)....nothing else...

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote: 1) Is this in accordance of Murlis & Avyakt Vanis or Ved-Shashras?
yes of course in Murli it had been said that "Christ aate hi jesus ke sharir mein pravesh karta hai.Pavitra atma hoti hai na."
and then it has been stated that "Krishna aur Radhe ka janm Satyug mein hota hai jaha sukh hi sukh hai."
....actually here we can see that in Satyug(and Tretayug too) souls take birth through womb but in dwaparyug(and Kaliyug too) descending souls,since are in pure stage,they cannot enter the womb which undergoes viscous practices so it enters the human body and enjoys the first so called life without taking the burden of dukh or sorrow.....this is true for all
2) If the subtle body is the outcome of the negative Karmic accounts (from the Copper Age), why.....why, Farishtas (फरिश्ता) are viewed in the subtle bodies even though their Karmic accounts have been settled & they have no any Sanskaars of negativity?
....sorry but who told you that farishta's are having no karmic accounts and no negativity in sanskars?....this is wrong....subtle body is the stage of soul where body consciousness is present not in an elaborate form as what normally is but yes atleast in core form,in concentrated form and you know concentrated things although is less but quite poweful than the diluted ones....
3) If a soul is unscious in the Paramdham & he cannot awake in his consciousness without entering into a corporeal body, why the corporeal body is termed as the gross body which is inert? How can the gross/inert body be the medium to awake the soul in his conscious stage? If this is so, does not this logically mean that the more the affinity towards inert/corporeal body, the more the consciousness a soul achieves?? And as the entrance of a soul into an inert body awakes(?) the consciousness within a soul, why to practise to detach from body-consciousness? Why not to practise to be more & more body-conscious?
...what and how do you define consciousness of soul as?..sodium kept in kerosene remain calm but when comes in contact with water vapour or kept out of kerosene it catches fire.....now you cant say that sodium became conscious with vapour and remained unconscious with kerosene.....soul in Paramdham stays as thoughtless energy point.....these are like viruses which stays like an object without any life but comes to action only with host....similarly soul in Paramdham is ....but when it comes to host that is it's body or any body it comes into activity.....thinking starts at this stage....now you can name it as consciousness or whatever you like but the concept remains the same

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Re: The world drama is not Eternal.

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

new knowledge wrote:According to the Advanced Knowledge (as arjunbhai mentions), at the end of the Kalpa, the soul of Ram (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) goes to the Paramdham at last, he stays there for few seconds & returns from Paramdham before everybody else; so all souls are present in Paramdham & there is no any soul present in the (corporeal) world drama during that period when the soul of Ram is in Paramdham. And, as there is no actor (soul playing his role) present in the world drama for few seconds when the soul of Ram is in Paramdham, does not this recent churning of the Advanced Knowledge logically prove that the world drama gets a break during the period of those few seconds? How could any drama take place without actors? Thus, the world drama is not Eternal, as it has a break, at the end of the Kalpa.

....while cycling we sometimes leave our handle and even stops paddling but still cycle moves ahead.....this is what we do here...beejroop souls together with the help of rajyog covers a safe place in the earth with vibrations so that even neither the prakriti nor any of the outer energy is able to defeat or thrash that vibrational powered area....then when we go to Paramdham our body gets covered with ice....destruction of the body doesn't take place and hence drama is still in process not completed.....if body also perishes we can understand that drama is not eternal but that is not so.....no break nothing ...even in Murli it had been said that "Ek taraf sthaapna hogi aur ek taraf vinash hoga"....so at the same time our body also rejuvenate and when we descend from Paramdham we get rejuvenated body and hence new world new generation starts.....but nothing stopped.....no stoppage of drama....

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 06 Oct 2009

dear brother new knowledge,
well my observation says that although you say that concept of spirituality and especially the concept of Paramdham cannot be explained by any geometrical or any scientific terms but still while debating or when you are trying to keep your views you are usually trying to redefine the things in scientific way.....either you are dual characterised person or trying to be so or whatever ....i want to make something clear in Murli it has been said that "Aage chalkar science fail ho jaayega."...so better to stick with something that won't fail and that is ShivBaba's knowledge....
Here i am not asking you to leave the topic or trying to demotivate you but just requesting you to take part in healthy discussion in spiritual way rather than enforcing it with some scientific thesis like entropy or something like that.....hope you understand what i want to say and hope you don't take it negatively....

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by shivsena » 07 Oct 2009

...sorry shivsena Bhai but 'sat-chaitanya-and anand swaroop' are the titles for ShivBaba and not for Shiv....
And who and where is this ShivBaba???
BKs feel it is bindi shiv and PBKs believe that it is shiv in Ram's body.(ShivBaba)
Has anyone in bk or pbk experienced complete and everlasting bliss while having Yoga with the supreme blissfull ShivBaba ???

shivsena.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 08 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote:And who and where is this ShivBaba???
BKs feel it is bindi Shiv and PBKs believe that it is Shiv in Ram's body.(ShivBaba)
Has anyone in BK or PBK experienced complete and everlasting bliss while having Yoga with the supreme blissfull ShivBaba ???
....if blind person sees black everywhere it doesn't means that he is true in his vision.....same applies here....if children are not able to feel anything that is their problem.....teacher had shown us the path and now we have to do purusharth to reach there and if we are not able to do so it's our negative point...but instead you are criticising the teacher for not teaching you good enough to complete the aim.....in Hindi it is called as "Ulta chor kotwal ko daante"
"Baap aakar sirf gyaan dete hai baaki toh purusharth bachchon ko karna hai"
"Father comes and give knowledge but the remaining purusharth has to be done by children."
and
"Koi virle bachche hai jo baap ko pehchaanenge"
"Some rare students are there who will recognize the Father."
...

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by shivsena » 08 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote: and
"Koi virle bachche hai jo baap ko pehchaanenge"
"Some rare students are there who will recognize the Father."
...
And who are these rare virle bacche who will recognise Father....is it 9,00,000 BKs or is it 16000 PBKs or is it the 108 rudrabeads???

shivsena.

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RudraPutra
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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by RudraPutra » 08 Oct 2009

shivsena wrote:And who are these rare virle bacche who will recognise Father....is it 9,00,000 BKs or is it 16000 PBKs or is it the 108 rudrabeads???
....this depends on the percentage of how much soul recognizes Father and how much faith he keeps on him....depending on these percent differences categories are made whether it is 9 lac or 16k or 108....

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