new knowledge wrote: If the subtle body is the outcome of the negative Karmic accounts (from the Copper Age), why.....why, Farishtas (फरिश्ता) are viewed in the subtle bodies even though their Karmic accounts have been settled & they have no any Sanskaars of negativity?
Sorry- my explanation was incomplete.
There are two types of corporeal bodies- impure and pure. Similarly subtle bodies also can be of pure and impure. I was talking about impure subtle bodies. So wrote like that.
Pure souls who conquer body consciousness have pure subtle bodies. But once again i say- no one can conquer body consciousness 100%. Hence even faristas (pure souls) have subtle bodies. Murli points cleary say- I alone do not have body. Even BVS have subtle bodies".
Dear Brother mbbhat, animals do not have fully developed subtle bodies, but their consciousness definitely have links with subtle elements i.e., undeveloped subtle bodies.
May be- but since their intellect's capacity is less, they are not likely to get into subtle forms. That is- they cannot realize the practical situation just with subtle body.
For example- One may have some money. But it may be insufficient to purchase the thing. similarly their consciousness may not be enough to form subtle bodies. Of course, animal souls also have sanskaar which take account of those.
This is my belief. I have already said- I am not sure. Also Murli says- do not think of animals. first you become pure. So I do not have enough data. These are just my churning.
Consciousness (of animals or human beings) can’t be awakened only by the link with a gross body, A support of subtle body (developed or undeveloped) is essential.
This may be your belief. I have no problem. But do you have proof?
) I agree that a sinner uses more mind power and intellect; but I can’t accept that the one who conquers sin (for example, a Farishta with higher purity stage) also uses more mind power and intellect as he is in a silent and thoughtless stage, A sinner has less mind power but he consumes it more; and that one who conquers sin has more mind power but consumes it less.
what I mean is stress on intellect and not the usage.
stress = load/capacity.
so stress is lesser and becomes zero even though they use their mind and intellect to the highest extent= powerful thoughts. They become naturally powerful.
new knowledge wrote:3a) If a soul is unconscious in the Paramdham & he cannot awake in his consciousness without entering into a corporeal body, why the corporeal body is termed as the gross body which is inert? How can the gross/inert body be the medium to awake the soul in his conscious stage?
I do not say it is inert(= liveless). there is live- but in the incognito form. There is also a Murli point- Jab tum shantidham may ho toh jaaganti jyoti ho = when you are in Shatidham, you are like awakened souls.
Also there is a Murli point that says- Mutki ko bhi varsaa hee kahenge= Even liberation is also called as property.
My research is going on. Thank you.
something releveant- When you put seed in the water, it begins to sprout. till there it seems to be like inert. in one sense just seed (without contact of water) can be called as liveless. But in another sense it is not so.
mbbhat wrote: Car is definitely jada(inert). As soon as driver enters/uses it become active.
new knowledge replied:- This proves that a driver is essential to activate a car; but this does not prove that the driver becomes active only when he enters a car.
Definitely. But a car conscious person will be like jada when he is out of car. Only those who are not car conscious will be active when they are out of car. Similarly I think Shiv will be conscious (who is 100% soul conscious in reality) even in Paramdham, but other souls fail.
If this is so, does not this logically mean that the more the affinity towards inert/corporeal body, the more the consciousness a soul achieves??
Definitely not- due to the above explanations.
Such type of irrational thinking has led BKWSU to degradation.
I respect your belief as part of drama. I am sorry that I did not see the posts and could not reply at right time
[Since for long time, there was discussion between you and Rudraputra, I did not open this thread].
How do Golden Aged souls awake in their full conscious, 16 degree Sato-pradhaan stage, within no time, when they incarnate on the earth from Paramdham where they are supposed to be complete unconscious ??
Already explained- eg: sprouting of seed. Who said- in no time?
Another eg is- A person having good health will have higher conscious as soon as he awakens. Those whose health is not good, take some minutes to get active. A battery may be idle = no current flows when isolated. but when you connect the load, current starts flowing instantly.
Sprouting of a seed or lightening of a bulb do not occur within no time as the Golden Aged souls (as believed by BKs) awake in their full conscious, 16 degree Sato-pradhaan stage, within no time, when they incarnate on the earth from Paramdham where they are supposed to be complete unconscious. how is that possible?
Who said- Golden Aged souls awaken in no time? In fact, it will be slower than the speed of closing the switch and flow of current.
Even the last final paper is said to be of one second!
Just think what is the necessity of fastness? that too- when BKs believe all the souls in Golden Age enter into womb! - It can be as slow as that of sprouting of seed or even slower.
In fact, when SriKrishn takes birth, he will not be knowing that- I am vishw Maharaj. He knows that later. The thing is- it happens as if it is natural without any effort.
The logic of speed:- The speed of mind should be more than that of effect on body. That is all! When during destruction(final paper), the body is affected by external situations. It will definitely take fraction of a second for the paristhiti (situation) to affect on body which will inturn affect soul, is it not? so the requirement is- the souls should be able to escape from that situation. That is- it should be able to attain bodyless stage within that period. That is all.
In most of the Murlis- Baba says- in a second, sometiems Baba has also said- Ek second se bhi kum samay may apney ko sthith kar saktey ho?= Can you seat yourself in the right stage within less that a second?
Baba has never said- in zero time.