On the way to Paramdham

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 09 Feb 2009

O! You mean before minus infinity time period (or before minus infinity years) God or somebody planned the shooting of the world drama!!!
Dear new knowledge soul,
I am not well either in English language or science like you. So I just tried to explain. You just take literal meaning of the words. So it is upto you. My belief is that drama is anadi(no beginning).
If drama is made(word meaning), then I consider it as the one that is done first. That is, nothing existed before the drama.

I did not mean God or somebody planned the shooting of the drama. I mean drama has shooted itself at minus infinity. Drama means inclusive of God, soul, nature and everything.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by new knowledge » 10 Feb 2009

new knowledge wrote:'The Eternal World Drama' is a false concept. Everything in this world drama is perishable, then how should the world drama (as a whole) be eternal? Due to spectacles of Maya, the perishable world drama looks like eternal. The whole Kalpa Tree is subject to final dissolution (Mahaa Pralay). Only Paramdham & divine sports of Paramdham are eternal & practical.
mbbhat wrote:But the entropy in the universe has been continuously increasing. If time is linear this decrease in entropy should not be able to observe in a finite time. But we observe it. Hence the state of the world (corporeal world) must be restored(at least made better every time it comes to its lowest state. Since change in entropy is observable, in finite time the world will come from its best to lowest state(Spiritually we say from Satyug to Kaliyug), so this process should had already happened for infinite number of times and hence will/should continue. Hence time is Cyclic and cannot be linear. HENCE WORLD CANNOT PERISH . CONCEPT OF MAHAPRALAY IS WRONG.
1) I mean the corporeal world drama believed to be 'the Eternal World Drama' is a wrong concept. Only the divine sports (Divya Lilaa) of Paramdham are eternal, i.e, divine blissful drama played in Paramdham is Eternal.
2)
Cyclic nature of time (as hypothised in BKWSU) & the fact of increase or decrease in entropy are not deterministic or sufficient criteria to prove the Eternal nature of the corporeal world drama. Even though the hypothesis of cyclic nature of time is accepted, it does not mean that the entire world drama revolves in the corporeal state through the whole 360 degrees of the time cycle. The entire world drama passess through various strata or levels such as corporeal, subtle, casual, incorporeal etc. So the entire world drama passess through its corporeal, subtle, casual strata through various time intervals of the complete time cycle. But the Paramdham drama revolves through the complete time cyclic. Hence according to my churning of Godly kmowledge, only Paramdham drama is eternal as that drama exists during the whole time cycle & all other dramas (corporeal, subtle, casual etc.) are perishable as they do not exist during the whole time cycle.
3) The corporeal, subtle, casual, incorporeal states could also be viewed as the various energy levels of the universe, i.e, just as the temperture of water changes, it passess through various energy patterns/levels like ice, water & vapour, similarly, as entropy of the universe oscillates through its highest & lowest values, the universe passess through changing energy patterns like corporeal, subtle, casual, incorporeal, etc. So, the corporeal mundane world drama (and all other dramas) does not continue during the full range of oscillation of entropy through its highest & lowest values.
4) Only Paramdham is the constant reservoir of unlimited energy, hence Paramdham drama is not subject to change of entropy or enery level. So, only Paramdham drama is eternal.

mbbhat wrote:If the world is just an illusion:- You have mentioned somewhere that the world could be an illusion. But if this is the case, predictions cannot happen in the world. Scientists predict about solar and lunar eclipses exactly and they happen. There is logic in the world. Definite set of procedures are there to manufacture, use maintain, and repair a product. Hence the world is not an illusion.
1) illusion does not mean 100% wrong. Dream is also an illusion, but, as our everyday real experiences get reflected in our dreams, there is also a sense of reality (though to a very little extent) even in a dreamlike state, so we experience some cause-effect relationship, a set of successive procedures & logic to some entent even in dreams. Similarly, the corporeal world drama is unlimited illusionary dreamlike state of the soul created by Maya. But as some real attributes of the Paramdham drama (bliss, peace, love etc.) get incarnated (though to a very little extent) in the corporeal world drama, there appears a very very little extent of reality even in illusionary corporeal world drama. So we can observe accuracy of scientific predictions (to some extent), some set of procedures & logic in this illusionary corporeal world drama.
2) Truth is One & Unified. At the level of the Absolute Truth, all the logical boundaries of differentiation get merged. It's the job of Maya who differentiates the One & Unified Truth into various illusionary strata like corporeal, subtle, casual, etc.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by new knowledge » 11 Feb 2009

Brother mbbhat, even though the assumption of increase & decrease of entropy is believed to be valid, the continuity of the entire world drama, till the eternity, cannot be accepted unless we get crear understanding of the energy patterns of the universe when the world drama passes through its highest level of entropy, i.e, when the world drama passes through its lowest energy level. Just suppose, X is the value of amount of the total energy remained at that point of time when the world drama passes through the lowest energy level, i.e, the highest entropy level. Then what's the value of X ??

There are two possibilities;
1)If X = 0, it means all energy get consumed at that point of time when the energy level is supposed to be lowest, i e, at that point of time, energy level is 0. And all the activities or dynamics within the world drama get sustained by the consumption of the energy stored in the universe. If X = 0, absolutely no any form of energy remains for consumption for the continuity of activities or dynamics within the world drama; so the world drama cease to exist if X = 0. Under such circumstances, the world drama cannot be assumed as Eternal.
2) If X > 0, i.e, if some energy remains even at the lowest energy level state of the universe, then this means that at least some certain amount of energy (at least equal to X) NEVER get consumed at any point of time during the whole time cycle. Now, if X > 0, even then the process of energy consumption does not take place. Also under such circumstances, the world drama cease to exist as no energy consumption takes place to sustain the activities or dynamics within the world drama.

Thus the hypothesis of increase or decrease of entropy within some highest & lowest values, is not suffhcient criterian to prove the eternity of the world drama. Also,
as the drama has a break, at least at that point of time when the entropy reaches its highest value, the world drama should neither be considerd as circular nor linear; because, to be either circular or linear, the world drama must be eternal without any break. Only the Divine Blissful Drama in Paramdham is Eternal as Paramdham is the constant revervoir of unlimited (unlimited does not mean infinite) energy, there is no change of energy level or entropy in Paramdham.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 12 Feb 2009

Dear New Knowledege soul,
I am not sure that I have followed your every point. But will try to explain the things.

Let me call the best state(lowest entropy) as A=100% energy level(Golden Age what Baba has described in Murlis) and the worst state (highest entropy) as B. There are two cases:- B = 0 and B>0(Say 5%).

Baba has said clearly in Murlis that the battery power of soul does not reach zero. Some charge will remain. So according to Murli, B cannot be equal to zero. So B>0.

Now following things are to be discussed.

1)How entropy gets restored?
2)Why is brought back from the same worst state(B=5%) to the same best state every time?

1)Due to the behaviour/usage of man the natural resources go on diminished(entropy goes on increasing) and we reach from state A to B. Bad character people(sinners) consume maximum from the nature[Also due to natural behaviour of human beings also there is consumption even in Satyug. Hence even Satyug is also a type of Maya]. Hence we can say bodyconsciousness/attachment increases entropy. God comes and gives knowledge to change behaviour of human beings. This change restores entropy of the souls(purifies them). Then the natural calamaties, etc will purify(restore entropy) of the nature. Then the cycle repeats. [Baba has said even power of thought purify the world. My research is still going on in this matter]. So use of RIGHT KNOWLEDGE restores entropy.

2)Since God is neutral, he does not purify any soul by his own power. He gives knowledge and it is the choice of a soul to follow it or not. [Because if God acts according to his wish, then drama could not have run at all and we would not have been like this today. If he acts by his own interest then he should make all the 600 crore souls Kings. Then the population in heaven would be 600 crores and no soul could remain in Paramdham. In that case (if all are Kings) then the society cannot run. So drama cannot run].

Hence it is clear that each and every soul has to put effort to qualify itself and the souls get numberwise status.

So when this selection and election process is completed, destruction takes place and new Kalpa comes. High rank holders descend from Paramdham and enjoy heaven. Slowly other souls come and play their part and again we reach hell.

Assume that we are now in a Kalpa number N. In the next Kalpa(N+1), ShivBaba cannot start this purifying action before Kaliyug, because then some of the souls cannot come to play part in the next Kalpa(N+1). This is as good as ShivBaba putting his personal interest in drama (Which is already explained). Hence God will have to wait until the worst stage comes (B = 5%).
The souls which have come first from Paramdham would get degraded maximum. They will get tired and would have lost their power and they need God’s company to the maximum possible extent. So they get knowledge and put effort. Since those souls have played from Satyug till Kaliyug they have that sanskaar with them. So they will naturally realize God to that extent and refill(recharge) to the same level. In other words they will get recharged to the same extent = what they were before descending from Paramdham. So logically it can easily be proved that each and every soul gets recharged to the same extent what it had been before descending from Paramdham. This is said that every soul has fixed part in it(by anadi itself).

Sanskaar is recorded/filled in soul by its actions and experiences. Soul plays its part in drama stage- That is with the physical body and nature. Since part in soul is same in every Kalpa(as explained above), that soul should get identical bodies in exact sequence as it had got in the previous Kalpa. So we can say that the bodies also repeat as exactly as in the previous Kalpa(‘hu ba hoo’ is the word used in Bk philosophy. I do not know the word meaning of these). So there is no difficulty to come to conclusion that each and every thing in the world repeats as exactly as the previous Kalpa.

Another case:- Let us assume that God take control by himself and distributes property equal to all the souls in the form of like token ring. Let us assume that He makes some 1000 souls as King in this Kalpa. In the next Kalpa these 1000 souls will be prajas and some other different 1000 souls are given king status. In this way each and every soul will play parts of King, praja, servant, etc in Satyug, Tretayug, and other ages. Each soul should become Jesus, Buddha, Bill Gates, Hitler, beggar, handicapped, in one or other Kalpas. After many kalpas(say some 600 crore Kalpas), that is when all these souls play same part (at different kalpas) we can say that all the souls have got equal property.

What is next? Again the repeation, right? So we will have to say that the bigger cycle repeats (once in every smaller 600 cycles). But if this is true(God distributes equal property), then nobody will put effort since every soul is sure to receive same overall property in every 600 crore cycles. Then the unlimited knowledge should be called as WASTE and human beings are like just physical objects. Intelligence becomes meaningless.

So why cannot we come to the judgement that every cycle repeats itself hub a hoo. Soul and drama are eternal. If the fruit in the next Kalpa is going to be the same as in this Kalpa then only soul will put effort. Otherwise(If God created us by his own will, one or the other day all the souls will attain moksha and different theories) why should one put effort? All karma philosophy theories will get zero mark.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by new knowledge » 13 Feb 2009

mbbhat wrote:Let me call the best state(lowest entropy) as A=100% energy level(Golden Age what Baba has described in Murlis) and the worst state (highest entropy) as B. There are two cases:- B=0 and B>0(say 5%). Baba has said ciearly in Murlis that the battery power of soul does not reach zero. Some charge will remain. So according to Murli, B cannot be equal to zero. So B>0.
a) My dear Brother, but you have not explained the nature of energy patterns at that very point of time when entropy achieves its highest state, i e, when energy stored in the universe becomes lowest.

b) If, as according to you, B > 0, it means some energy (equal to B) NEVER get consumed or renewed at any point of time (till eternity) even including that point of time when the world drama passess through the lowest energy level state of the universe. Now due to the usage of natural resources & body consciousness, energy stored in the universe get consumed & it's believed that due to the practise of RajYoga meditation & soul-consciousness, energy storage of the universe gets renewed. And all the dynamics & continuity of the world drama get sustained due to the consumption & renewalisation of the energy storage of the universe (energy stored in nature & souls).. But as just B amount of energy (which is NEVER consumed or renewed) remains at that point of time when energy storage is minimum, the dynamics & continuity of the world drama cannot be sustained as no any additional form of energy is available which could be consumed or used for renewalisation at that point of time. Thus the world drama MUST have a break at, least, at that point of time when energy storage is minimum. Hence the world drama could not be regarded as Eternal. Also as the drama has break, it cannot either be linear or circular.

c) Just suppose, at a given point of time;
B > 0,
D = the total amount of energy of the universe &
C = D - B;
then D has two components;
1) B is that component that always remains constant as it is never consumed &
2) C is that component which is used for consumption or renewalisation.
Thus B is a constant & C is a variable.
Now I've some questions;
1) is it possible that some part of energy (B) out of total energy in the universe (D) is never applied for consumption or renewalisation process & only the other component C is used for consumption & renewalisation ??
2) what's the difference between B & C on thermodynamic & spiritual basis, i e, with respect to what properties, that component of eneqgy storage which is never consumed or renewed is different from that component of energy which is consumed or renewed?
Unless there is valid answers to these questions, it's very hard to accept B >0.

d) If B > 0, what's the use of that B amount of energy as it's neither consumed nor renewed. Such type of energy is dead or inert as it cannot be used for dynamics or continuity of the universe; so that energy cannot be entitled as energy. Hence B must be equal to Absolute Zero, i e, B = 0.
Hence "B > 0" is an invalid statement as there are no any attributes of energy in B amount of energy, it MUST not be count into the total storage of the universe.
And B = 0, the hypothesis of the Eternity of the world drama becomes invalid.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 13 Feb 2009

new knowledge wrote: b) If, as according to you, B>0, But as just B amount of energy (which is NEVER consumed or renewed) remains at that point of time when energy storage is minimum, the dynamics & continuity of the world drama cannot be sustained as no any additional form of energy is available which could be consumed or used for renewalisation at that point of time. Thus the world drama MUST have a break at, least, at that point of time when energy storage is minimum. Hence the world drama could not be regarded as Eternal. Also as the drama has break, it cannot either be linear or circular.

1) is it possible that some part of energy (B) out of total energy in the universe (D) is never applied for consumption or renewalisation process & only the other component C is used for consumption & renewalisation ??
2) what's the difference between B & C on thermodynamic & spiritual basis, i e, with respect to what properties, that component of eneqgy storage which is never consumed or renewed is different from that component of energy which is consumed or renewed?
Unless there is valid answers to these questions, it's very hard to accept B>0.

d) If B>0, what's the use of that B amount of energy as it's neither consumed nor renewed. Such type of energy is dead or inert as it cannot be used for dynamics or continuity of the universe; so that energy cannot be entitled as energy. Hence B must be equal to Absolute Zero, i e, B=0.
Dear soul, Thank You for the discussion.
b)I did not understand. Why drama cannot be sustained according to this theory?
1)I did not say it is NEVER APPLIED. In fact it is the one which gets combined with the new energy(knowledge).
If B= 0, then the soul cannot recharge.
Since B is greater than zero, we are able to sit, stand, work and listen to God's knowledge. Since B>0 every soul is responsible to grasp the truth from the available knowledge in the world.
If B=0, then all the souls would be like mortal and drama should come to end and obviously we would not have been existed today.

2)Plants convert usless manure into food. A rose plant converts bad smelling manure into fragrance. Can you explain this with the help of thermodynamics? Why high calorific foods but hybrid(processed) do not give health similar to natural food?

*Thoughts are capable of regenerating. There is no need of external source always. One thought can create 100 thoughts(if 100 people are listening attentively) or 10 thoughts(if just 10 people are listening). Here the transmission(given= input) is same in both the cases. But the reception(output) is different. How is this? Can thermodynamics explain this?

Science has limitations. A weak though can kill a person or create disease. Can thermodynamics explain this? This is the power of thought.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by bansy » 13 Feb 2009

Dear brothers,

How many thoughts does the Supreme Soul have ?

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 13 Feb 2009

In Murli Baba has said that "I am asochta"= Non thinker. Since God is in sakshi or karmaateet stage it is as good as the thoughts emerge from him automatically. We can say
God really thinks:- Because he speaks.
We can also say God does not think, because he does not feel it at all:- Like an excellent healthy powerful person when lifts a small weight he does not feel at all. If we put a 1 Kg weight on the roof of a building there will not be any strain.

If we analyse God from our view, we can see many different thoughts:- Positive, neutral, waste, thunders and some even lies(or contradicing types) and some giving tempation to do purusharthah and service. God says all are in drama. God only knows.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 16 Feb 2009

New knowledge soul wrote:- Just as, viewed through our limited sense of meaning, we say that dreams are unrealistic, illusionary & our everyday activities in the World Drama are realistic; similarly, through our unlimited sense of meaning, we could argue that the whole World Drama (which is viewed as a Unlimited Dream) is unrealistic, illusionary, Mayavi & only the blissful divine activities/sports in Paramdham are realistic.1)We can enjoy dreams, but would we like to always live in dreams?? Definately not. We would like to enjoy our everyday life instead of passing our valuable time in pseudo joyes in dreams. Then through unlimited sense, why should we waste our valuable time in unlimited illusionary (Mayavi), unrealistic joyes of this mundane world? 2)Is it not better to make spiritual efforts to achieve complete awakened stage from the deep sleep of Maya & enjoy the real unlimited joyes of divine blissful sports (Divya Lila) in Paramdham?
1)I think many people in this world will agree to have life just full of dreams. Because there is full of stress in this world.

2)Usually effects of practical life is reflected in dreams. So can it be said that this world (or whatever we experience now ) is also a result of that Complete awakened stage in Paramdham?

Dear new knowledge soul,
I am a little bit sorry the way I have written here. When writing such a long thread I got some limited emotions. Please excuse me. There was no need of the following sentence too.
mbbhat wrote: So why cannot we come to the judgement that every cycle repeats itself hu ba hoo

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by new knowledge » 16 Feb 2009

mbbhat wrote:I did not say it is NEVER APPLIED. In fact it is the one which gets combined with new energy(knowledge).
My dear brother mbbhat, due to the passage of time, more & more energy get consumed due to body-consciousness & usage of natural resources & this process of consumption of energy stops at that point of time when the world drama passes through the lowest energy level. Then all that consumed energy get renewed (get combined with new energy) within feedback process as the result of proper spiritual practices. But some energy (B) remains unconsumed even at that point of time when the world drama achieves its lowest energy level. And as that B amount of energy is not subject to consumption, it cannot be renewed, i e, it cannot be combine with new energy. Even it cannot be entitled as 'energy'.
If B=0, then the soul cannot recharge. Since B is greater than zero, we are able to sit, stand, work & lhsten to God's knowledge. Since B>0 every soul is responsible to grast the truth from the available knowledge in the world. If B=0, then all the souls would be like mortal and drama should come to end and obviously we would not have been existed today.
What's the source of 'that available knowledge'? Even in a dream-like stage, our subconscious mind is aware (though to a little extent) about our real life. And due to that partial awareness, even in dreamlike stage, we are able to grasp the essence of truth from the knowledge of real life experiences merged in our subconscious mind. We sustain our existence even after our dreams are dissolved, i e, even after we awake from illusionary dreams. We are sustained in this world by the dynamics of this world drama & not by the dynamics in pseudo dreams. Similarly, this world drama is like unlimited dream. And in this unlimited dreamlike world drama, our deep subconscious mind is aware (though to a very little extent) about the past real Sanskaars (संस्कार) of self identity (when we were in Paramdham) even when the world drama is at its highest degraded state at the end of the Kaliyug. And due to this partial awareness, we are able to grasp the essence of truth from the available knowledge of our past Sanskaars of self-identity merged in our deep subconscious mind. We maintain our existence (with full consciousness in Paramdham) even after the world drama is dissolved completely, i e, even after we awake from the illusionary Mayavi dreamlike world drama. Just as we temporarily get sustained in this world by the dynamics of this world drama & not by the dynamics of the pseudo dreams; similarly souls eternally get sustained by the eternal Sanskaars of self identity (when we were in Paramdham) merged in our deep subconscious mind & not by the dynamics of this pseudo world drama.

And when B = 0, the world drama completely dissolves, but souls continue their existence. Even though B = 0, battery power of souls does not discharge & they do not come to the mortal stage as B (and also A, C & D) indicate energy level of the world drama & not that of a soul. Hence even though B = 0, we could maintain better existence.

I think many people in this world will agree to have life just full of dreams. Because there is full of stress in this world.
But unless we awake from the temporary pseudo pleasures of dreams, we could not be able to enjoy the long lasting pleasures of our life; similarly, unless we awake from the unrealistic psudo & perishable pleasures of this Mayavi world drama, we could not be able to enjoy unlimited eternal divine pleasures of Paramdham.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 19 Feb 2009

new knowledge wrote:- And as that B amount of energy is not subject to consumption, it cannot be renewed, i e, it cannot be combine with new energy. Even it cannot be entitled as 'energy'.
You may be right here. I assumed B>0 because even for a secondary cell(rechargeable battery) it is recommended/said that it should be recharged before it becomes dead. You may have experience that our mobile handset automatically switches off when it reaches a threshold level. Its battery does not reach zero. We recharge from that threshold level. Still some energy is left there. Do you say that cannot be entitled as energy?
What's the source of 'that available knowledge'?
Incorporeal, World Almighty Authority, Supreme Soul, Most beloved God Father of all Souls Shiva himself
Even in a dream-like stage, our subconscious mind is aware (though to a little extent) about our real life. ...
I agree with this. That is why even in Bhaktimarg we start remembering God even though there was no name of God for 2500 years.
Similarly, this world drama is like unlimited dream.
I have already explained to my capacity that this world is not a dream. Scientists predict many things. Everyday they predict about weather conditions. Something more:- If we put one litre of petrol to a car we can be sure that it gives a mileage of 15 Kms. If all is dream, then there cannot be any theory. If this world is dream, then the car should give different mileage at different times(there is no definite rule for dreams.
And due to this partial awareness, we are able to grasp the essence of truth from the AVAILABLE KNOWLEDGE....
Do you mean to say we will be able to grasp from the AVAILABLE KNOWLEDGE? If it is from available knowledge(that is not from any external source), then why did we degrade? What was the available knowledge in the beginning? Was the available knowledge more before or today? How does it vary with time(i.e from beginning to end)?
2)And when B = 0, the world drama completely dissolves, but souls continue their existence. Even though B = 0, battery power of souls does not discharge & they do not come to the mortal stage as B (and also A, C & D) indicate energy level of the world drama & not that of a soul. Hence even though B = 0, we could maintain better existence.
How to charge soul?
unless we awake from the unrealistic psudo & perishable pleasures of this Mayavi world drama, we could not be able to enjoy unlimited eternal divine pleasures of Paramdham.
1)Do you believe the unlimited eternal divine pleasures of Paramdham can be enjoyed here or there or both? Which is better?
2)What is the effort needed to awake?
3)Do all the souls go to Paramdham after dissolution of drama? Do all the souls get enjoyment in Paramdham? Do they get same level of enjoyment there?

Some more questions:-
a)Is there God in your theory?
b)Can souls be created?
c)Why population is increasing?
d)If all is dream in this world do you believe karma philosophy? Is there any difference between a sin and punya(opposite of sin)? If it is dream, do you say the souls have got degraded due to dreams?
e)During dream the place need not change. A person in bed may feel that he is in office. We all feel that we are in physical world. If this is dream, where are we now according to you? Are we here or in Paramdham (dreaming in the bed) itself and dreaming this world?
e)What is your idea about creator and creation?


I have mentioned about one of the posibilities in this thread. My research is going on. Something more.
As you said B can be zero. It does not make me any diffrence because energy can neither be created nor be destroyed. Just natural calamaties may restore entropy. Plants have capacity to convert bad smelling, useless manure into fragrance.
But the souls have to be recharged. Because if all the souls are sent to Paramdham then the question arises who should be permitted to come to heaven? Not only that souls should become pure. i.e their character should be made better. Else the heaven created would not remain heaven for half a Kalpa. It will soon become hell.

But thoughts have effect on physical things. Like we all know that everybody's thought has effect on one's own body. Many people do riddhi-siddhi by power of thoughts. So I think thoughts will have effect on the whole universe also. But at present I cannot prove that.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by shivsena » 20 Feb 2009

Dear bhat Bhai and new knowledge Bhai.

I have been following your discussion about proving the existence of Paramdham as a world in outer space, where souls reside after destruction.
I wish to ask you a very simple question: Can you prove the existence of the soul and Supreme Soul with scientific means or scientific discussion. If the answer is yes, then please give the scientific proofs and if the answer is no, then be rest assured that the supreme abode of all souls ie. Paramdham also cannot be proved by any scientific means. I feel that spiritual entities just cannot be proved by any scientific methodology.
In my opinion, the terms saakari, aakari and nirakari duniya are used to denote the stage of souls and not the actual residing place of souls and Supreme Soul. I just do not believe that souls exist as inert points of light in some remote golden-red world somewhere in outer space.

shivsena.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 21 Feb 2009

shivsena wrote: Can you prove the existence of the soul and Supreme Soul with scientific means or scientific discussion.
Dear brother,
This is what I had asked before. Can science explain power of thoughts? Something more:- Can it explain love, fear, bliss?

Dear new knowledge soul,
There is limit to everything in this world. Each has its own nature and capacity. If a cow wishes to get power of elephant it is waste. It is wise to put effort to improve its health. Similarly I feel that I am intelligent if I try to get rid of the vices first. Else talking about high things would be a waste. [God also has said in Murli that even he has limitations].

I sometimes also feel that we human souls will never be able to find Ultimate truth. because we cannot realize it. [Like an animal cannot think in human way]. Baba has clearly said, 'I will not give you key of divadrushti. It is reserved in me'. Another thing is if we reach ultimate truth then we would never fall again.

Good Bye

mbbhat
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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by mbbhat » 23 Feb 2009

mbbhat wrote:[1)Had = limited = Golden Aged world= where less percentage of souls exist in corporeal world.
Behad = unlimited = Iron Aged world = full percentage of souls in corporeal world.
I got one Murli point related to hadh and behad.

SM 21-12-70(1):- Hadh may hain 9 lakh aur ABHI BEHAD may hain 500 crore.

= In Hadh(limited) there are 9 lakhs and in behad(unlimited) there are 500 crores.

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Re: On the way to Paramdham

Post by new knowledge » 03 Mar 2009

mbbhat wrote:I assumed B>0 because even for a secondary cell(rechargeable battery) it is recommended/said that it should be recharged before it becomes dead. You may have experience that our mobile handset automatically switches off when it reaches a threshold level. Its battery does not reach zero. We recharge from that threshold level. Still some energy is left there. Do you say that cannot be entitled as energy.
1) Logic, theory & processes at the middle range situation (such as charging, discharging & threshold level of a battery or that of a mobile handset) cannot be applied to those situations at the extreme level macroscopic or microscopic level (like charghng, discharging power & threshold level of the world drama as a whole).
2) Though a battery or a mobile handset appears to be switched off at the threshold level, their operating system continues to work in an incognito mode, i.e, internal functioning goes on even though the battery or mobile phone is switched off & it is sustained by the consumption of that energy left at the threshold level. And if that battery or mobile phone is not recharged for a long term period, that energy left at the threshold level is also subject to reach zero level due to its consumption to sustain the operating system of that battery or mobile phone. But there no energy is left when the world drama reaches its threshold level, so there is no internal functioning to sustain the world drama.

new knowledge wrote:What's the source of that available knowledge?
mbbhat wrote:Incorporeal, World Almighty Authority, Supreme Soul, Most Beloved God Father of all Souls Shiva himself.
But there is a problem. If God Shiv is the source of that available knowledge when the world drama goes through its threshold level, He must have to incarnate before that threshold point, so that He could get some time to deliver that available knowledge. But, as the recharging process of the world drama starts at that very point of time when God incarnates & starts delivering knowledge, is it possible that the world drama achieves the threshold level even after the incarnation of God? This means that He does not incarnate before that threshold level. And if He incarnates at the threshold point of time, how does immediately He become the source of the energy available at that threshold level of the world drama?

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