Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by arjun » 12 Jul 2011

BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli -397

“परमात्मा को मात-पिता भी भारतवासी कहते हैं। बाहरवाले कहते हैं ओ गॉड फादर। अच्छा, फादर है तो साथ में मदर भी होनी चाहिए। ईव कहते हैं परन्तु वह कौन है? ईव किसको कहा जाए? मम्मा को ईव नहीं कहेंगे। मम्मा तो जगदम्बा है। ईव इनको (ब्रह्मा) ही कहेंगे क्योंकि इनके मुख द्वारा रचे, तब तो तुम मात-पिता सिद्ध हो। एक को ही मात-पिता कहा जाता है। जगत अम्बा की भी माँ होनी चाहिए। वह भी ह्यूमन है। यह सब बातें धारण तब हों, जब निरन्तर देही-अभिमानी बनने का पुरुषार्थ करे।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ०९.०६.०८, पृ. ३ एवं ४)

“It is the Indians who call the Supreme Soul as the Mother and the Father. The outsiders (i.e. foreigners) say – O God Father. OK, if there is a Father, then there should also be a Mother. People say ‘Eve’, but who is she? Who can be called as Eve? Mama will not be called Eve. Mama is Jagdamba. This one (Brahma) will only be called Eve because creation was done through the mouth of this one; only then are you proved to be the Mother and the Father. Only one is called the Mother and the Father. There should be a mother of Jagdamba also. She is also a human being. All these matters can be inculcated when you make efforts to become constantly soul conscious.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 09.06.08, pg 3 & 4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli-156
तो क्राइस्ट हुआ फादर। माँ कहाँ से लावे। फिर मेरी को मदर बना दिया है। दिखाते हैं मेरी कुमारी थी उनसे क्राइस्ट पैदा हुआ। अब कुमारी से बच्चा पैदा हो यह बिल्कुल बेकायदे है। यह सब शास्त्रों से उठाया है। दिखाया है ना कुन्ती कन्या थी उनसे कर्ण पैदा हुआ। अब यह दिव्य दृष्टि की बात है। परन्तु उन्होंने फिर कापी किया है। तो जैसे यह ब्रह्मा मदर है। मुख द्वारा बच्चे पैदा कर फिर सम्भालने के लिए मम्मा को दिया। तो क्राइस्ट का भी ऐसे है। क्राइस्ट ने प्रवेश कर धर्म की स्थापना की। उनको कहेंगे क्राइस्ट की मुख वंशावली भाई और बहन। क्रिश्चियन का प्रजापिता हो गया क्राइस्ट। जिसमें प्रवेश कर बच्चे पैदा किये वह हो गई माता। फिर सम्भालने लिये दिया मेरी को, उन्होंने मेरी को मदर समझ लिया है। यहाँ तो बाप कहते हैं मैं इनमें प्रवेश कर मुख सन्तान रचता हूँ। तो उसमें यह मम्मा भी मुख सन्तान ठहरी। यह हैं डिटेल में समझने की बातें।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ०१.०१.०८, पृ.२)
“So, Christ happens to be the Father (of Christians). From where should he get the mother! So, Mary has been made the mother. It is shown that Mary was a virgin. Christ was born from her. Well, a virgin giving birth to a child is completely against the rules. All this has been lifted (i.e. copied) from (Hindu) scriptures. It has been shown (in Mahabharata) that Kunti was a virgin. Karna was born from her. Well this is a matter of divine vision. But they have then copied it. So, just as this Brahma is a mother. He gave birth to children through the mouth and then entrusted them to Mama for taking care of them. So, the case of Christ is also similar. Christ entered (in a body) and established a religion. They will be called the mouthborn progeny of Christ, i.e. brothers and sisters. The Prajapita of Christians is Christ. The one in whom he entered and gave birth to children happens to be the mother. Then they were entrusted to Mary for taking care of them; they (i.e. the Christians) have considered Mary to be the mother. Here, the Father says – I enter and create mouth born children. So, among them this Mama is also a mouthborn child. These are matters to be understood in detail.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.01.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli -185
अगर कोई रन्ज (नाराज) होता है तो बाप से आकर पूछो – बाबा इस बात से हमारे से यह नाराज रहते हैं, तो बाबा समझायेंगे। कोई भी बात पहले मन्सा में आती है। वाचा भी कर्मणा ही हो गया। अगर बच्चों को माँ-बाप की आशीर्वाद लेनी है तो श्रीमत पर चलना है। यह बड़ी गुह्य बात है जो एक को ही माता पिता कहते हैं। यह ब्रह्मा बाप भी है तो बड़ी माँ भी है। अब यह बाबा किसको माँ कहे? यह माता (ब्रह्मा) अब किसको माँ कहे? इस माँ की तो माँ कोई हो नहीं सकती। जैसे शिवबाबा का कोई बाप नहीं, ऐसे इन्हें अपनी कोई माँ नहीं।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ३१.०१.०८, पृ.२)

“If anyone becomes displeased (with you), then come to the Father and ask – Baba this one remains displeased with me on this matter; then Baba would explain. Anything first comes in the mind. Speech is also an action only. If the children are to obtain the good wishes of the Mother and the Father, then one should follow the Shrimat. This is a very secret matter that only ‘one’ is called the Mother and the Father. This one is Father Brahma as well as a senior mother. Well whom should this Baba call as Mother? Now whom should this mother (Brahma) call as Mother? This mother cannot have any Mother. Just as ShivBaba does not have any Father, this one does not have any mother.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 31.01.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli -501
“तुम बुढ़ियायें इतना ज्ञान उठा नहीं सकती। यह दादा बूढ़ा तो बहुत अच्छा पढ़ता है। तुम समझती हो – जवान सरस्वती माँ अच्छा पढ़ती है। अरे, यह तो ब्रह्मपुत्रा नदी है। यह तो जरूर जास्ती पढ़ते होंगे ना। यह बूढ़ा सबसे तीखा है। वह तो फिर भी बेटी हो गई। बुढ़ियों के लिए भी है बहुत सहज। बाबा को याद करते रहो। ओहो, शिवबाबा कुर्बान जाऊं, आप तो सुखधाम ले जाते हो। बस, ऐसे खुशी में रहो तो भी बेड़ा पार है। हमेशा समझो – शिवबाबा समझाते हैं। इनको छोड़ दो। ऐसे ही समझो शिवबाबा सुनाते हैं तो बुद्धियोग शिवबाबा पास जाने से विकर्म विनाश होंगे। मम्मा भी शिवबाबा से सुनकर सुनाती है। सदैव एक शिवबाबा की ही याद रहे तो विकर्म विनाश होते रहेंगे।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २९.०७.०८, पृ. ४)
“You old women cannot grasp knowledge to that extent. This old Dada studies very well. You feel – young mother Saraswati studies well. Arey, this is river Brahmaputra. These might definitely be studying more, will they not? This old man is the sharpest one. She is even then a daughter. For the old women also it is very easy. Keep remembering Baba. Oho! ShivBaba I shall sacrifice myself on you; you take me to the abode of happiness. That is all, remain in such joy, even then the ship shall sail across. Always think – ShivBaba explains. Leave this one. Think that it is ShivBaba who narrates; then, the sins will get burnt because the intellect goes towards ShivBaba. Mama also listens from ShivBaba and narrates. If there is the remembrance of only one ShivBaba, the sins will go on burning.”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.07.08, pg 4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli-56
"ब्रह्मा शिव की मुख वंशावली नहीं है। शिवबाबा तो आकर इनमें प्रवेश कर अपना बनाते हैं। यह भी क्रियेशन है। पहले ब्रह्मा को रचते हैं, विष्णु को नहीं रचते। गाया भी जाता है ब्रह्मा, विष्णु और शंकर। विष्णु, शंकर और ब्रह्मा नहीं कहा जाता है। पहले ब्रह्मा को रचते हैं। ब्रह्मा का आक्यूपेशन अलग है। यह हर एक बात समझने की है। इनको त्वमेव माताश्च पिता....कहा जाता है। तो वह निराकार है ना। तो साकार में मात-पिता चाहिए, तब पूछते हैं – मम्मा को माँ है? कहेंगे हाँ। ब्रह्मा, मम्मा की भी माँ है। ब्रह्मा की कोई माँ नहीं। यह माँ (ब्रह्मा) फीमेल ना होने कारण सरस्वती को मम्मा कहते हैं। बाप पढ़ाते हैं तो यह भी पढ़ाते हैं। जैसे तुम स्टूडेन्ट हो वैसे यह भी है। शिवबाबा कोई स्टूडेन्ट नहीं है।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २६.१०.०७, पृ. १)

"Brahma is not the mouthborn progeny of Shiv. ShivBaba comes and enters in this one and makes him His own. This one is also a creation. First He creates Brahma and not Vishnu. It is even sung – Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. It is not said – Vishnu, Shankar and Brahma. Fir Brahma is created. Brahma’s occupation is different. All these matters are to be understood. He is called – You are my mother and Father. So He is incorporeal isn’t He? So, mother and Father are required in corporeal form; only then do they ask – Is there a mother of Mama? It will be said – Yes. Brahma is Mama’s mother as well. Brahma does not have any mother. Since this mother (Brahma) is not a female, Saraswati is called Mama. The Father teaches; so this one also studies. Just as you are students, this one is also a student. ShivBaba is not a student." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.10.07, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)
BKInfo-Revised Sakar Murli -500
“विचार किया जाए – बरोबर हमको किसने रचा? कहते हैं – अल्लाह ने रचा। तो जरूर अल्लाह की कोई फीमेल भी होगी? अल्लाह तो निराकार है, उनकी फीमेल फिर कहाँ से आई? तुम गॉड फादर कहते हो तो फादर हमेशा रचता होता है। मदर ही न हो तो उनको फादर कैसे कहेंगे? बच्चा पैदा होता है तब ही फादर कहते हैं ना। यह किसको पता नहीं गॉड फादर की फीमेल कौन है? यह है सबसे गुह्य बातें। आदम बीबी दोनों हैं। आदम उनको कहेंगे तो फिर सरस्वती को बीबी नहीं कह सकते। वह बीबी हो तो फिर उनकी माँ कौन? यह बड़ी समझने की बातें हैं। बाप ही बैठ समझाते हैं। इस हिसाब से यह (ब्रह्मा) मेरी सजनी हुई। इसके मुख द्वारा रचता हूँ तुम बच्चों को। ब्रह्मा तन में प्रवेश करता हूँ। उन्हों को सम्भालने लिए फिर जगत अम्बा निमित्त बनी हुई है। आदि देव ब्रह्मा और जगत अम्बा सरस्वती यह कौन है? विवेक कहता है ब्रह्मा की बेटी है। तो रचना कैसे रची? ब्रह्मा द्वारा रची तो यह है बड़ी माँ। फिर सम्भालने के लिए मम्मा भी है, बाबा भी है।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २९.०७.०८, पृ. ३)

“If you think – Actually who created us? They say – Allah has created. So, certainly there must be Allah’s female too? Allah is incorporeal; then, from where did His female emerge? You say ‘God Father’; so the Father is always the creator. If there is no mother at all, then how can he be called a Father? Someone is called a Father only when a child is born, isn’t it? Nobody knows as to who is the female (i.e. wife) of God Father? These are the deepest matters. There is Aadam as well as Bibi (Eve/wife). If he is called Aadam, then Saraswati cannot be called Bibi. If she is Bibi, then who is her mother? These are matters to be understood deeply. Only the Father sits and explains. In this way, this (Brahma) is my wife. I create you children through the mouth of this one. I enter in the body of Brahma. Then Jagdamba is instrumental in taking care of them. Aadi Dev Brahma; and who is Jagat Amba Saraswati? Conscience says that she is Brahma’s daughter. So, how was the creation created? It was created through Brahma. So, this one is the senior mother. Then there is Mama as well as Baba to take care (of the children).”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 29.07.08, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by arjun » 12 Jul 2011

Om Shanti. The above Murli points (which were posted on this forum in the past) prove that Om Radhey Mama is neither number one soul nor the actual Jagdamba. The role of Jagdamba is played by the soul of Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) but through another female Brahmin (who is revealed to the world as Jagdamba in future).
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by shivsena » 13 Jul 2011

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. The above Murli points (which were posted on this forum in the past) prove that Om Radhey Mama is neither number one soul nor the actual Jagdamba. The role of Jagdamba is played by the soul of Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) but through another female Brahmin (who is revealed to the world as Jagdamba in future).
OGS,
Arjun
What is the proof that DL Brahma enters VD and kamla devi (to be revealed as jagdamba)....are there any Murli points to support this theory of Ak !!
Also if a male body has played the role of jagdamba, then why a male body is not worshipped in Bhakti-marg as jagdamba.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Also if a male body has played the role of jagdamba, then why a male body is not worshipped in Bhakti-marg as jagdamba.
My understanding of this point, is that the soul playing the part, has to be in their own body when they become complete, in order to be worshipped in Bhakti-marg. Brahma Baba is not in his own costume playing the role, when he eventually becomes complete. However; Kamla devi will be, and she also belongs to the Sun Dynasty, because she recognises and acknowledges the part of Father(via Ram-Baba Dixit), whilst still in her body.

Roy

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

Thank you for the great Murli points Arjun Bhai; and thank you Sita Bhen, for your interesting and informative post!

Roy

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by shivsena » 13 Jul 2011

Roy wrote: My understanding of this point, is that the soul playing the part, has to be in their own body when they become complete, in order to be worshipped in Bhakti-marg. Brahma Baba is not in his own costume playing the role, when he eventually becomes complete. However; Kamla devi will be, and she also belongs to the Sun Dynasty, because she recognises and acknowledges the part of Father(via Ram-Baba Dixit), whilst still in her body.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

If she acknowledges the part of Father(via Baba Dixit) then why did she return back to lokik life??...she ought to have stayed with the Father and children till the very end.

shivsena.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:If she acknowledges the part of Father(via Baba Dixit) then why did she return back to lokik life??...she ought to have stayed with the Father and children till the very end.
This is your opinion Bhai, but may well not be the way this great Drama plays out. Do not be suprised to see her returning to the Yagya at some point, in order to play her most important role, of leading the mothers out of their subordinate roles(attitudes), and opening the gates of Heaven in the process!

Roy

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by arjun » 13 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:What is the proof that DL Brahma enters VD and kamla devi (to be revealed as jagdamba)....are there any Murli points to support this theory of Ak !!
Ample Murli proofs have already been provided on this forum (including the Murli points that I have quoted above). However ShivBaba will never say directly that either He or Dada Lekhraj Brahma enters in Baba Virendra Dev Dixit or Kamla Devi (by name). He gives ample hints and ShivBaba's direct children recognize Him on the basis of these hints. If other PBKs have time, they can provide Murli proofs that shivsena Bhai has sought above.
shivsena wrote:Also if a male body has played the role of jagdamba, then why a male body is not worshipped in Bhakti-marg as jagdamba.
It is not the male body but the soul of Dada Lekhraj which played the role of the mother. Since he had a male body, his soul is worshipped as Jagdamba when his soul is revealed through the body of Kamala Devi as Jagdamba.
roy wrote:My understanding of this point, is that the soul playing the part, has to be in their own body when they become complete, in order to be worshipped in Bhakti-marg. Brahma Baba is not in his own costume playing the role, when he eventually becomes complete. However; Kamla devi will be, and she also belongs to the Sun Dynasty, because she recognises and acknowledges the part of Father(via Ram-Baba Dixit), whilst still in her body.
I would like to correct that Jagdamba (Kamala Devi) is believed to belong to the Moon Dynasty and not the Sun Dynasty because she does not maintain the relationship with the Father throughout the Confluence Age and is influenced by the Moon of knowledge (i.e. the soul of Brahma) who enters into her.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by sita » 13 Jul 2011

What is the proof that DL Brahma enters VD and kamla devi (to be revealed as jagdamba)....are there any Murli points to support this theory of Ak !!

I don't have a quote, but there is a whole conception about the Subtle Region in the Ak, that is supported with the Murlis, that the Subtle Region is nothing. The new idea in the advanced knowledge is that subtle stage is achived whilst in a body. When a soul leaves a body, it either takes rebirth or enters others with its subtle body. If we take this idea, we should seek what has happened with Brahma Baba after he left the body in 69. If he has taken rebirth this must be his form of Krishna and up to now he must have sat on the throne. We don't see that, so we cannot confirm it. If he takes a subtle body, that we can see entering into Dadi Gulzar, we have to seek where he resides, when he does not come in Dadi Gulzar.

In the Murlis and AV there are hints that Bap and Dada are combined and cannot be separated, you will separate them and they will again come together. If we find the Father then we would have found the Dada also. Also, if we take the comparison of Gandi and Brahma Baba and apply the unlimited sense, it is said in the Murli that Gandhi has taken birth in a royal house. Royal house has been revealed in 76, according to the Murlis, that is the birth date of Lakshmi and Narayan.

I think shivena tries to follow Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in this matter that he has studied Murlis and has recognized his role, but i believe this has never come with some initial intention, as is in the case with Brahma Baba. I believe he had not seek for divine visions etc, and had not dreamt of becoming Krishna etc, but as it is said in the Murlis, we receive whatever we have not even dreamt about. In the same way, i believe, Baba Virendra Dev Dixit had not started study with some initial itention to find or prove something, but with a pure intention of a student and a follower, but matters had just fallen into places, even to his astonishment. This last paragraph is a bit apart, so if it bothers someone it may be edited.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by shivsena » 13 Jul 2011

Roy wrote: This is your opinion Bhai, but may well not be the way this great Drama plays out. Do not be suprised to see her returning to the Yagya at some point, in order to play her most important role, of leading the mothers out of their subordinate roles(attitudes), and opening the gates of Heaven in the process!Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

This is what we all are waiting for....who is going to open the gates of heaven...will it be world mother avaykt Mama(Brahma) or will it be the two mothers(kamla devi and sister Vedanti), PBKs are waiting for.

shivsena.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

arjun wrote:I would like to correct that Jagdamba (Kamala Devi) is believed to belong to the Moon Dynasty and not the Sun Dynasty because she does not maintain the relationship with the Father throughout the Confluence Age and is influenced by the Moon of knowledge (i.e. the soul of Brahma) who enters into her.
Thank you Bhai, for correcting my error here... i still have much to learn in AK! :D

Roy

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by shivsena » 13 Jul 2011

sita wrote:I don't have a quote, but there is a whole conception about the Subtle Region in the Ak, that is supported with the Murlis, that the Subtle Region is nothing.
40 yeas of avaykt Vanis continously teaching the students to attain avaykt stage and become farishtas in sukhma-vatan and PBKs are still saying that sukhma-vatan is nothing.....I agree that many Murlis say that sukhma-vatan is nothing and it is there only for sak-shat-saar (visions)...but unless we become the dwellers of Subtle Region we cannot become angels and cannot give visions to others.....so for praja souls Subtle Region is nothing but for 108 king souls the subtle angelic stage is the last stage purusharth to be attained as per Vanis....this also explains what is said in Murlis: "jaisi dhristi, vaisi shristi." ....meaning as you interpret the knowledge ie. Murli and Vani points, so will be your end-stage."(whether king or praja)....praja will be receivers(levtaa) of visions and kings will be givers(dataa) of visions.....this is how Ak takes you away from the farishta king stage and makes one praja....and each soul has to decide whether one wishes to become raja or praja.

shivsena.

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:This is what we all are waiting for....who is going to open the gates of heaven...will it be world mother avaykt Mama(Brahma) or will it be the two mothers(kamla devi and sister Vedanti), PBKs are waiting for.
It's fascinating stuff, is not it! :D

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by Roy » 13 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:praja will be receivers(levtaa) of visions and kings will be givers(dataa) of visions
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Have you got a Murli or Vani point that states this?.. as i was under the impression, that only Father Shiv was capable of giving visions.

Roy

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Brahma: Karmatit or not in 1969!!

Post by sita » 13 Jul 2011

Dear brother shivsena,

You say we achieve farista stage, remembering a farista. You also say Mama attained farista stage. How did she achieve this? Which farista did she remember?

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