Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

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Roy
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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 11 Feb 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai
shivsena wrote:If the whole knowledge in Murlis was so simple, then it would not be necessary for shiv to say that "you have to read the Murlis 7-8 times to fully understand it." ....and also it is said in Murlis "you must wake at Amrit Vela and churn the points( gems of knowledge) and you will get wonderful touchings from BapDada."

The whole knowledge in Murlis is in a uniquely riddle form and those who just think of themselves as a point of light and their Father shiv as a point also(without knowing the real combined spiritual parents), then i feel that they will completely miss the bus.....BKs also remember point(bindi) and PBKs also remember point(bindi) ...then please do not call yourself as Gyan-marg and BKs as Bhakti-marg.
You are absolutely correct, Father Shiv does tell us to read the Murli 7-8 times to fully understand or realise it. Obviously, points of Knowledge aren't fully imbibed until this has occured, hence why Shiv repeats the same points over and over again in the Murli, especially... "consider yourself a soul and remember Me" :D This doesn't make these points hard to understand per se, it is transforming these points, in the form of points of Knowledge, into points of power, that is achieved through churning on them. And yes, some points are more abstract, like... "attitude is more subtle than karma", i remember enjoying getting to the bottom of that one! :D But this doesn't make the Murli a jumbled code. 80% of knowledge is pretty straight forward imo, as long as you are practising soul conscious remembrance... the other 20% maybe not so, and it is with this 20%, where the divisions start i.e. Advanced Knowledge.

May i ask Shivsena Bhai, do you follow Bhakti marg, or are your teachings Gyan marg??? :D

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 11 Feb 2011

Dear brothers

I urge any one following this thread who hasn't already done so, to go through the whole of the topic below, to help further clarify this matter we are discussing here.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=547&hilit=om+radhe ... r+writings

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by shivsena » 12 Feb 2011

Roy wrote:
May i ask Shivsena Bhai, do you follow Bhakti marg, or are your teachings Gyan marg??? :D
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

As long as brahma ki raat exists in the bk-pbk family in the behad ka drama, no one is in Gyan-marg ..as it is said in Murlis: "Gyan marg ki rasam-rivaz and Bhakti-marg ki rasam-rivaz mein raat din ka farak hai"..(meaning: ''the teachings of Gyan-marg and Bhakti-marg are like day and night and the two can never be similar just as day and night can never be similar'')....as for myself, i am just a seeker of truth who has come to a conclusion that all those who are attached to the Chariot(DL or VD) are definitely in Bhakti-marg, as they do not know who is ALAF (Rachieta BAP)....and i am trying to know who is ALAF(yartharth roop of Shiva)and according to Murlis/Vanis, i have come to a conclusion that Mama Saraswati (in all probability) is ALAF (personified ShivBaba)...a secret which will be known only to 108 souls.

So when the final exam is over in the near future, imo, only 108 will be in Gyan-marg (Gyani-souls ki rudra mala) while 916000 would be in Bhakti-marg....that is why it is said in Vanis: "in the end Bhakti (916000) will bow down to Gyan (108)."

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 12 Feb 2011

shivsena wrote:As long as brahma ki raat exists in the bk-pbk family in the behad ka drama, no one is in Gyan-marg ..as it is said in Murlis: "Gyan marg ki rasam-rivaz and Bhakti-marg ki rasam-rivaz mein raat din ka farak hai"..(meaning: ''the teachings of Gyan-marg and Bhakti-marg are like day and night and the two can never be similar just as day and night can never be similar'')....as for myself, i am just a seeker of truth who has come to a conclusion that all those who are attached to the Chariot(DL or VD) are definitely in Bhakti-marg, as they do not know who is ALAF (Rachieta BAP)....and i am trying to know who is ALAF(yartharth roop of Shiva)and according to Murlis/Vanis, i have come to a conclusion that Mama Saraswati (in all probability) is ALAF (personified ShivBaba)...a secret which will be known only to 108 souls.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Thank you as always for your valuable Murli quotes and translations, these are always most welcome my brother, and very serviceable. As usual though, we differ on our interpretations of theses quotes, but this is Drama of course! :D

I find your use of the word "attached" very significant, in relation to the two chariots, DL and Virendra Dev Dixit... i think you may have accurately defined why there are only 108 top class souls. Imo, it is the 108 who recognise Father Shiv through His actions in the body of Baba Dixit(Shankar), but never become attached to the Chariot itself... their "pure attachment" is only to Father Shiv. Thank you for encouraging me to look at this a little more closely. :D

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by shivsena » 12 Feb 2011

Roy wrote: it is the 108 who recognise Father Shiv through His actions in the body of Baba Dixit(Shankar), but never become attached to the Chariot itself...
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

There is no proof in Murlis (directly or indirectly) that proves that shiv is acting through Baba Dixit.....or ... Do any actions of Baba Dixit prove in any way that Father shiv is acting through his body at present.....in Murlis it is said : " ShivBaba is tower of peace, tower of silence, knowledgeful, blissful, liberator, guide etc, etc"....and it is commonly said: "where there is fire there is heat" ...'' where there is ice there is cooling"....so common sense says that if God shiv is in any body, his qualities should be reflected in that personality.... Are any of above qualities of shiv reflected in Baba Dixit in any way at present.(i do not think so)....i think that any soul who comes closest to shiv is none other than Mama Saraswati (no.1 shivshakti) who was personified ShivBaba in all respects.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by cal » 13 Feb 2011

shivsena wrote:
There is no proof in Murlis (directly or indirectly) that proves that Shiv is acting through Baba Dixit.....or ...shivsena.
Dear Shivsena Bhai:

This is a very interesting point. About three years back Baba Dixit said in one of the discussion CD's that "Aaap yeh keha sakte hai ki iske aander jo hai uske paas Gita ka bahut Gyan hai, lekin aapke paas kohi bhi proof nahi hai ki isme Shiv aaya hai" (You can say that the one inside this has a lot of Gita Knowledge, but you have no proof that the one inside this is Shiv).

There is no doubt that what is happening in BK/PBK is Bhakti (Devotion). I never read Gita. But now I know a lot about Gita and Bhakti after becoming a BK and more after becoming a PBK.

Cal

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 13 Feb 2011

cal wrote:shivsena wrote:

There is no proof in Murlis (directly or indirectly) that proves that Shiv is acting through Baba Dixit.....or ...shivsena.
Dear Cal Bhai

I found this quite amusing... was it intentional to include Shivsena Bhai? :D
shivsena wrote:There is no proof in Murlis (directly or indirectly) that proves that shiv is acting through Baba Dixit.....or ... Do any actions of Baba Dixit prove in any way that Father shiv is acting through his body at present.....in Murlis it is said : " ShivBaba is tower of peace, tower of silence, knowledgeful, blissful, liberator, guide etc, etc"....it is commonly said: "where there is fire there is heat" ...'' where there is ice there is cooling"....so common sense says that if God shiv is in any body, his qualities should be reflected in that personality.... Are any of above qualities of shiv reflected in Baba Dixit in any way at present.(i do not think so)....i think that any soul who comes closest to shiv is none other than Mama Saraswati (no.1 shivshakti) who was personified ShivBaba in all respects
This is a fair point, and i have very little experience of Baba Dixit himself, other than watching a couple of short videos. This however may be an advantage in some respects, because what has attracted me to AK is not Baba Dixit per se, but the teachings of AK. Souls like yourself Shivsena Bhai, have had much more contact with the PBKs and Baba Dixit, and this i believe can be a powerful breeding ground for Maya and doubts; because unless we are constantly soul conscious and detached, we are going to be affected, or coloured by the company, and the perceived or real defects of others. You must must have been attracted by something in AK; something in what was being taught, must have touched your intellect and been accepted as truth. Obviously later, doubts set in... but just because you have doubts, it doesn't prove that what you originally perceived as truth is no longer valid, it has simply become invalid to you. You may be correct in your analysis, or you are just as likely to be under the powerful influence of Maya. Time will reveal the truth of course!
cal wrote:This is a very interesting point. About three years back Baba Dixit said in one of the discussion CD's that "Aaap yeh keha sakte hai ki iske aander jo hai uske paas Gita ka bahut Gyan hai, lekin aapke paas kohi bhi proof nahi hai ki isme Shiv aaya hai" (You can say that the one inside this has a lot of Gita Knowledge, but you have no proof that the one inside this is Shiv).

There is no doubt that what is happening in BK/PBK is Bhakti (Devotion). I never read Gita. But now I know a lot about Gita and Bhakti after becoming a BK and more after becoming a PBK
This is also a fair comment, it is our own experience of AK, that will have to be relied upon, to inform us as to whether we are on the path of truth or not. Presently, i am of the opinion that AK is truth, but that is subject to change of course, and Maya and doubts are something that could play a large part in this process. But i would just like to finish with the following quote...

Nobody knows – when and how ShivBaba comes. [Mu 19.10.05]

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by shivsena » 13 Feb 2011

Dear roy Bhai and pbk brothers.

Just read a interesting point in Vani 10-1-82 (revised on 6-8-2000) on shiv-shakti combined:

"Shakti-sena ko dekh Bap bahut harshit hote hain. Shakti sadaa Bap ke saathi hain issliye gayan hi hai shiv-shakti....Shakti ke saath Bap ka bhi yaadgaar hai, toh combined ho gayee. Shakti shiv se alag nahin hai aur shiv shakti se alag nahin.. combined hain. Ek Ek jagatjeet ho, saare vishwa par jeet patee ho."

[meaning: "The Father becomes very happy to see the shakti-army. Shakti is always Father's(shiv) companion, that is why it is sung shiv-shakti. Along with shakti there is rememberence of shiv as they are both combined. Shakti is not seperate from shiv and shiv is not seperate from shakti (both are combined)....Each shakti is jagatjeet ..ruler of the world"]

The above Vani point about shiv-shakti fully supports the Bhakti-marg view of shiv-shakti combined.

The point also indicates that unless we know who is no. 1 shivshakti(combined) the 108 souls cannot get the title of shakti army (jagatjeet--rulers of the world).

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 13 Feb 2011

shivsena wrote:Just read a interesting point in Vani 10-1-82 (revised on 6-8-2000) on shiv-shakti combined:

"Shakti-sena ko dekh Bap bahut harshit hote hain. Shakti sadaa Bap ke saathi hain issliye gayan hi hai shiv-shakti....Shakti ke saath Bap ka bhi yaadgaar hai, toh combined ho gayee. Shakti shiv se alag nahin hai aur shiv shakti se alag nahin.. combined hain. Ek Ek jagatjeet ho, saare vishwa par jeet patee ho."

[meaning: "The Father becomes very happy to see the shakti-army. Shakti is always Father's(shiv) companion, that is why it is sung shiv-shakti. Along with shakti there is rememberence of shiv as they are both combined. Shakti is not seperate from shiv and shiv is not seperate from shakti (both are combined)....Each shakti is jagatjeet ..ruler of the world"]

The above Vani point about shiv-shakti fully supports the Bhakti-marg view of shiv-shakti combined.

The point also indicates that unless we know who is no. 1 shivshakti(combined) the 108 souls cannot get the title of shakti army (jagatjeet--rulers of the world).
Nice point Shivsena Bhai, but i feel it makes a stronger case for "my" argument, rather than yours. :D Imo, Father Shiv is talking about the shakti-army as a whole, not one shakti combined with Him, as you suggest we should remember.

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by cal » 14 Feb 2011

Roy wrote: I found this quite amusing... was it intentional to include Shivsena Bhai? :D
Dear Brother Roy:
It was NOT INTENTIONAL, a typo.

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by shivsena » 15 Feb 2011

Roy wrote:
Nobody knows – when and how ShivBaba comes. [Mu 19.10.05]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Please note the word "ShivBaba"...it is not said "shiv" but "ShivBaba"....so who is this '' ShivBaba'' whom nobody knows. (when and how HE comes).

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by shivsena » 15 Feb 2011

Roy wrote:
Imo, Father Shiv is talking about the shakti-army as a whole, not one shakti combined with Him, as you suggest we should remember.
Roy
So who is this shakti-army as a whole...is it 16000 or is it 108 ???...and how do they become shakti-army...by remembering shivbindi in Paramdham or by remembering shiv in corporeal Chariot or by remembering shiv as no. 1 shivshakti.(ALAF)

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 16 Feb 2011

shivsena wrote:Please note the word "ShivBaba"...it is not said "shiv" but "ShivBaba"....so who is this '' ShivBaba'' whom nobody knows. (when and how HE comes).
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I know what you are implying, but on scouring some Murli points earler, i noticed that the names Shiv, and ShivBaba, were used seemingly interchangeably; as in, first making a point using the name ShivBaba, and then confirming it using the name Shiv.

Is this not also the same with Brahma Baba? Sometimes he is referred to as Brahma Baba, sometimes Brahma, and then at other times, simply Baba! What is the tradition in India, with regard to the use of the term/name Baba? I was led to believe it is an affectionate word for Father.

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by Roy » 16 Feb 2011

shivsena wrote:So who is this shakti-army as a whole...is it 16000 or is it 108 ???...and how do they become shakti-army...by remembering shivbindi in Paramdham or by remembering shiv in corporeal Chariot or by remembering shiv as no. 1 shivshakti.(ALAF)
Good question Shivsena Bhai, and one i cannot personally answer at this point in time!

Roy

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Re: Who is Maa adi-shakti - feminine side of God Shiva ???

Post by arjun » 16 Feb 2011

Om Shanti. Shiv-shakti army is the army of souls which have a direct connection with Shiv, those who are working to transform the world under His directions. Directions can be given only when Shiv is practically present. Neither BKs nor Shivsena Bhai has a direct connection with Shiv.

Similarly, it has been said in an Avyakt Vani that rivers of knowledge are those which are connected with the ocean. If they are not connected with the Ocean, they are not rivers but simply drains.

OGS,
Arjun

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