BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

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BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 23 Jan 2011

BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

According to laws of natural science, Sun and the sun-rays cannot seperated.

According to laws of physical science, the power-house and electricity cannot be seperated.

According to laws of digital technology, the integers "zero" and "one" cannot be seperated.

According to chinese beliefs, Yin(female principle) and Yang (male principle) are interdependent and cannot be seperated.

According to Hindu religious beliefs, Shiva(static supreme pure consciousness) and shakti(dynamic) cannot be seperated.

All of the above are considered as one single entity... but BKs-PBKs, by propagating Shiva as a point of light, have seperated Shiva (static eternal pure consciousness) from his shakti (dynamic or kinetic energy) and by doing so they have ignored all existing laws of Nature.

BKs are propagating the theory that Shiva(supreme consciousness) is a point of light which remains in some very distant Paramdham in outer space and that HE comes to redeem mother earth and souls at the fag end of Kaliyug in 1937, and that HE has been carrying on his work through the BK org. from 1937 onwards.

PBKs are also propagating the same theory, except that Shiva could not complete the task of world-transformation through the first Chariot DL(Krishna) and has taken a new Chariot in 1969 in the form of VD(Ram) and the revelation of the Chariot occured in 1976 to few PBKs and will occur in the whole BK-PBK world sometime in the future.

Both philosophies stress of the bindi or point (nirakar)form of Shiva and lay utmost importance on their respective chariots, but they have not yet clearly elucidated how Shiva(powerhouse) is giving the energy to the souls required for individual transformation.....they just keep on harping that just remember Shiva and he will set everything right in the end.....so I feel that both orgs. are preaching the omnipresence of GOD(sarva-vyapi ka Gyan) in a subtle sense during the shooting period.

shivsena.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by cal » 23 Jan 2011

shivsena wrote: According to laws of natural science, Sun and the sun-rays cannot seperated.
According to laws of physical science, the power-house and electricity cannot be seperated.
According to laws of digital technology, the integers "zero" and "one" cannot be seperated.
Dear Shiv Sena Bhai:

Thanks for opening this thread. Also thanks for your contribution on this forum.
Since I have never come across these LAWS in the field of science, please provide reference(s) where I can read more about these LAWS.

Cal

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 23 Jan 2011

cal wrote: Dear Shiv Sena Bhai:
Thanks for opening this thread. Also thanks for your contribution on this forum.
Since I have never come across these LAWS in the field of science, please provide reference(s) where I can read more about these LAWS.
Cal
Dear cal Bhai.

The first two natural laws are very obvious laws and they need no references...even a common can understand.....for laws of digital technology you can find them on google search by typing "what is digital technology" and you can read everything about the same.

For Hindu religious beliefs, you can go to site www.adi-shakti.org or you can simply type '' Who is shivshakti'' in google search and again you will find many websites describing the relation between Shiva and shakti.

shivsena.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2011

shivsena wrote:Both philosophies stress of the bindi or point (nirakar)form of Shiva and lay utmost importance on their respective chariots, but they have not yet clearly elucidated how Shiva(powerhouse) is giving the energy to the souls required for individual transformation.....they just keep on harping that just remember Shiva and he will set everything right in the end.....so I feel that both orgs. are preaching the omnipresence of GOD(sarva-vyapi ka Gyan) in a subtle sense during the shooting period.
A person who does not provide any information as to who and where exactly God is present (and keeps changing his philosophies every now and then) is claiming that others teach the omnipresence of God!!!! He should first peep into his own intellect before leveling false charges against others.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 23 Jan 2011

arjun wrote: A person who does not provide any information as to who and where exactly God is present (and keeps changing his philosophies every now and then) is claiming that others teach the omnipresence of God!!!! He should first peep into his own intellect before leveling false charges against others.
In the pursuit of truth, a true seeker has to change his perceptions as the intellect matures, and as he keeps on reading the Murlis and Vanis, churning of new points reveal something which have never unfolded in past.....so one has to keep on changing his beliefs till the final destination.... Murli says: "jab tak jeena hai tab tak padna hai"( " till we live, we have to study" )....BKs-PBKs are not ready to change their perceptions and are satisfied with what they have found (even though they agree that their knowledge is incomplete)....i find that the first two levels in the spiritual pyramid(refer to picture below) is basic and advance levels.....but i feel that there is yet a third level understanding which will lead souls to the top of the summit(choti)....if you are satisfied with your level of understanding, then nobody is forcing you to change, but why are you preventing others from seeking and sharing a third level of understanding of Godly knowledge.
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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2011

but i feel that there is yet a third level understanding which will lead souls to the top of the summit(choti)
Top of summit is 'one' and not '108'.
but why are you preventing others from seeking and sharing a third level of understanding of Godly knowledge.
I have not prevented anyone from pursuing any path.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 24 Jan 2011

arjun wrote:He should first peep into his own intellect before leveling false charges against others.
Every soul has to peep into himself and see what he is preaching....and this is more so applicable in case of PBKs, who are now accepting that advance knowledge is a mixture of knowledge of 3 souls (Shiva-Ram-Krishna), but still they continue to propagate Ak as truth(sacchi Gita) to new PBKs who are taken for a ride in the name of God.

I have just given my views on the forum, whether they are true or false will be decided in the end.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by Roy » 30 Jan 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai
shivsena wrote:but BKs-PBKs, by propagating Shiva as a point of light, have seperated Shiva (static eternal pure consciousness) from his shakti (dynamic or kinetic energy) and by doing so they have ignored all existing laws of Nature
Imo, with your belief, you have made Father Shiv less than human. He is no more than a store of Knowledge with no will of His own, just like a soul in the seed stage in Paramdham(Soul World). When we human souls enter this physical universe, we need a corporeal(physical) body to express ourselves, otherwise we are nothing but wandering ghosts. So the same law applies to Father Shiv... when He comes into the physical world, He also needs to take the support of the physical in order to undertake His task... but He is no less than any of us, in that He doesn't need another soul to work through, He simply needs a body, in order to communicate with His children. Father Shiv is the Supreme Soul, you take this title away from Him, by saying he needs to combine with another soul(not body) in order to even communicate with us. Human beings can communicate with one another via bodies, to say that Shiv cannot do this alone, is imo, a big mistake.

Father Shiv has Himself said in the SM... "I take the support of this body and purify the sinful ones"... he Has never said, I take the support of this soul and purify the sinful ones, as far as i know. The fact Shiv has to take the support of matter, in itself disproves the claim of your topic, that the omnipresence of God is being taught, He has to expresses Himself through one body at a time... one has to hear or read His teachings, that come via one body, one instrument, this is the opposite of omnipresence imo.

Father Shiv enters the physical world, and in order to accomplish anything, He has to take the support of matter(a body), not the support of any one particular soul. Yes, He needs the cooperation of souls, to accomplish his task, and for this He has His shakti army, who are like dynamic energy or electricity, getting things(work) done... but imo, He doesn't need another soul, to function on a level, we human souls simply take for granted.

Roy

P.S. You give the example of Yin and Yang. I once read somewhere, that Jesus Christ was the perfect example of Yin and Yang in balance. If this can be said of him, then surely the Sumpreme Father Shiv, is the ultimate example of Yin and Yang in balance. He has no need of a second party to complete Him, He is innately complete, by His very nature and role. The main aim in Raj Yoga, is to become bap-samaan... are we to aim to become inert vaults of knowledge, incapable of funtioning without a second party involved. The very idea, completely goes against all we are taught in knowledge, and to my mind, also goes against logic!

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by Roy » 30 Jan 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I believe the article below, makes a lot more sense than the idea you are proposing....

http://www.ShivBaba.Copper Age/point9.htm

Baba says that Spiritual Godly knowledge as given by the Supreme Soul Shiva is perfect knowledge and we-Brahmins should tally it by modern scientific methods. So let us take a close look at spiritual mathematics.

Integers in Numerology ----0 — 1— 2— 3 — 4 — 5 — 6 — 7— 8 — 9…............. etc. etc.

Zero— 0 is the only integer which is neither negative or positive. There is no such thing as +0 or –0. (zero is always neutral). Hence we can easily say that Supreme Soul Shiva is zero--bindi--dot-( who neither plays a positive role or negative role in this world drama but remains neutral and unattached throughout the Kalpa). The rest of the integers 1- 2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9….etc (representing the souls numberwise) can be positive or negative and can be represented as +1, +2, +3, etc. (when the soul is 100% pure and divine) and likewise as –1, –2, –3, etc.(when the soul becomes vicious and impure).

Zero and 1 are the most important integers in numerology.
There is no integer between zero and 1.
Any integer if multiplied by 1 remains the same and if multiplied by zero is reduced to zero.
No.1 is a part and parcel of every integer except zero.
Now when any integer – say no. 7 is expressed in relation to no.1 or zero—we get the following results.

7 x 1 = 7 ------- 7/1 = 7
7 x 0 = 0 ------- 7/0 = infinity
1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 7
0+0+0+0+0+0+0 = 0

It means that all integers if they want to retain their individual identity then they have to relate to No.1 and not to zero—any integer relating to zero is reduced to zero.

So when simple mathematics is applied to spirituality—it means that all souls from no. 2 onwards have to relate to No.1 and not to zero. If they relate to zero, then as seen above they loose their individual identity and become zero-- dot-- bindi-- a point of light –which has no identity of its own ( a soul has identity and value only when it is in connection with the body). You may have plenty of zeros in your bank account but if no.1 is missing in front of the zeros – then the end balance is a big zero.

So when one meditates on the Supreme Soul Shiva only—he is destined to become a zero ie. attain a state of mukti only in Paramdham (like sanyasis). But our goal as Brahmins is to attain mukti and jeevan-mukti in one second –and not mukti alone.

So the important question : ----- HOW TO MEDITATE ?

Baba says that you should remember the Incorporeal Father (zero) in the body of the Corporeal Father (hero) – no.1 soul – Father of Humanity--Adam. But where is the Corporeal Father?----BK Brahmins believe that Dada Lekhraj (Krishna’s soul) is Father of Humanity—but he has left his body in 1969—hence he cannot be no.1 soul (hero), who has to be on this world stage right upto the climax. So who is this no.1 soul in whose body we have to remember Supreme Soul Shiva and get inheritance of mukti and jeevanmukti in one second in this birth and not after death.

All souls from no. 2 onwards, have to first recognise No.1 soul (Ram’s soul—Adam) through Advance knowledge and relate to him—but at the same time remembering that Supreme Soul Shiva is using that body as His immortal Chariot (in short—Remember the Zero in Hero).

DO NOT CONSIDER ADAM AS GOD—HE IS ONLY THE Chariot OF GOD.
BUT BOTH OF THEM CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM ONE AND ANOTHER.
(Adam ko khuda mat samjho-adam khuda nahin hai.
Lekin adam khuda ke noor se jhuda bhi nahin hai).

Roy

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 30 Jan 2011

Roy wrote:Imo, with your belief, you have made Father Shiv less than human. He is no more than a store of Knowledge with no will of His own, just like a soul in the seed stage in Paramdham(Soul World). When we human souls enter this physical universe, we need a corporeal(physical) body to express ourselves, otherwise we are nothing but wandering ghosts. So the same law applies to Father Shiv... when He comes into the physical world, He also needs to take the support of the physical in order to undertake His task... but He is no less than any of us, in that He doesn't need another soul to work through, He simply needs a body, in order to communicate with His children. Father Shiv is the Supreme Soul, you take this title away from Him, by saying he needs to combine with another soul(not body) in order to even communicate with us. Human beings can communicate with one another via bodies, to say that Shiv cannot do this alone, is imo, a big mistake.
Dear roy Bhai.

Thanks for your views.
i can just round up by saying that in Bhakti-marg scriptures it is said : "Shiva is shakti and shakti is Shiva" ....and ..."Shiva without shakti is shava(corpse) and shakti without Shiva is expressionless"....and ..."Rememberence of shakti is rememberence of Shiva"....so imo, shakti(Mama) is embodied Shiva and i find it very easy to relate to no. 1 Shiv-shakti (not the Chariot) as my spiritual parents.

For me, the Chariot is not important at present, because i believe that those who will rely on some bodily Chariot (DL or VD) to remember Shiva(Father) will never be able to become avaykt farishta(angel) and for me, the aim is to become avaykt farishta(16 * +) like avaykt Brahma(Mama) and not a Deity (16*) ....in Murlis it is said: "Deities(would-be) do not have the third eye to recognise the Father"(yartharth-roop).

shivsena.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by shivsena » 30 Jan 2011

Roy wrote:Dear Shivsena Bhai

I believe the article below, makes a lot more sense than the idea you are proposing....
http://www.ShivBaba.Copper Age/point9.htm
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The article above was written way back in 1998-99, when the advance site was first made and i had full faith in Baba Dixit being Ram's soul and bindi Shiv playing part through him and my individual churning and study of Murlis/Vanis and study of Bhakti-scriptures had not yet begun.....but as the years passed and my intellect matured, coupled with the girti-kalaa of PBKs and mother leaving the Yagya in 2003, forced me to change my beliefs about Baba Dixit's part.

So now, when i believe that Baba Dixit is not Ram's soul but Krishna(rachna) and Mama jagdamba is Ram parampita paramatma(rachieta--shivshakti combined), then the whole article has to be re-viewed in different light.

shivsena.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by arjun » 30 Jan 2011

roy wrote:So when one meditates on the Supreme Soul Shiva only—he is destined to become a zero ie. attain a state of mukti only in Paramdham (like sanyasis). But our goal as Brahmins is to attain mukti and jeevan-mukti in one second –and not mukti alone.

So the important question : ----- HOW TO MEDITATE ?

Baba says that you should remember the Incorporeal Father (zero) in the body of the Corporeal Father (hero) – no.1 soul – Father of Humanity--Adam. But where is the Corporeal Father?----BK Brahmins believe that Dada Lekhraj (Krishna’s soul) is Father of Humanity—but he has left his body in 1969—hence he cannot be no.1 soul (hero), who has to be on this world stage right upto the climax. So who is this no.1 soul in whose body we have to remember Supreme Soul Shiva and get inheritance of mukti and jeevanmukti in one second in this birth and not after death.

All souls from no. 2 onwards, have to first recognise No.1 soul (Ram’s soul—Adam) through Advanced Knowledge and relate to him—but at the same time remembering that Supreme Soul Shiva is using that body as His immortal Chariot (in short—Remember the Zero in Hero).
I agree.

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by Roy » 30 Jan 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai
shivsena wrote:i can just round up by saying that in Bhakti-marg scriptures it is said : "Shiva is shakti and shakti is Shiva" ....and ..."Shiva without shakti is shava(corpse) and shakti without Shiva is expressionless"....and ..."Rememberence of shakti is rememberence of Shiva
I can go along with this up to a certain point, as indeed without His shaktis, Shiv would not be able to complete His task. But we have to remember, although Bhakti is a remembrance of the truth, its reflection may not always be perfect, due the muddied waters of 2500 years of Drama. This is a remembrance of the truth, not truth itself. It doesn't mean Father Shiv is some inert being, that needs another soul to complete Him. True enough, like human souls, Shiv is inactive and inert while He rests in Paramdham, and true enough, He is like a corpse without the shakti energy of matter, in the form of a corporeal body, to express His part through; i don't think anyone would disagree with that. But this is some way off saying, that without a shakti counterpart soul, Shiv has no power of His own to express Himself. When i was taught about Father Shiv in the 7 days course, i was told that by having the knowledge of the soul, i had the blueprint for understanding the form of God, that He too is a pinpoint of light, only He is Supreme, in that there is only benefit in His sanskars, and that within Him is all the Knowledge of the Drama, and all the ingredients a soul needs, available via one's mental connection with Him. My point is, God Shiv, functions exactly the same as any other soul... the only difference is, He has a perfect intellect and sanskars, and because He never takes a body of His own, He nevers succumbs to the duality experienced by human souls living in this physical world. So just like us, He simply needs a body in order to have a relationship with other souls, He doesn't need another soul as a conduit, in order to express His part... this concept truly diminishes the magnificence of who Shiv is imo; but more importantly, it is contrary to the knowledge given in the Murli.
shivsena wrote:"Deities(would-be) do not have the third eye to recognise the Father"
I think this can be interpreted to mean, that the deities of the Golden Age, are "sweet fools", with no Knowledge of Father Shiv or the Drama!

Roy

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by Roy » 30 Jan 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai
shivsena wrote:The article above was written way back in 1998-99, when the advance site was first made and i had full faith in Baba Dixit being Ram's soul and bindi Shiv playing part through him and my individual churning and study of Murlis/Vanis and study of Bhakti-scriptures had not yet begun.....but as the years passed and my intellect matured, coupled with the girti-kalaa of PBKs and mother leaving the Yagya in 2003, forced me to change my beliefs about Baba Dixit's part.

So now, when i believe that Baba Dixit is not Ram's soul but Krishna(rachna) and Mama jagdamba is Ram parampita paramatma(rachieta--shivshakti combined), then the whole article has to be re-viewed in different light.
I am okay with the fact you believe another soul plays the part of Ram, and that you don't believe this is Baba Dixit... my problem with your theory, is that when you talk about the combined form of Shiv(0) and shakti(1), you use the Bhakti understanding, that they cannot function in their own right i.e. without one another. You propose Shiv is completely static, or inert, and shakti(Mama) is the dynamic expression of His consciousness. We are taught via the Murli, that Shiv(0) is the Supreme Soul, and that He takes the support of anothers(1) body(shakti energy according to Bhakti), in order to have a relationship with His children(the pandav and shakti armies according to Shrimat). There is a huge gulf between this concept, and the one you propose, as neither soul in your scenario, has a true identity without the other. You propose that Shiv(0) is absolutely reliant on Mama(1) the soul, in order to simply exert His will; let alone taking on a body, in order to begin the task of establishing Heaven.

Roy

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Re: BKWSU and AIVV teach omnipresence of God.

Post by Sach_Khand » 31 Jan 2011

Roy wrote:... let us take a close look at spiritual mathematics.

Integers in Numerology ----0 — 1— 2— 3 — 4 — 5 — 6 — 7— 8 — 9…... etc. etc.

Zero— 0 is the only integer which is neither negative or positive. There is no such thing as +0 or –0. (zero is always neutral). Hence we can easily say that Supreme Soul Shiva is zero--bindi--dot-( who neither plays a positive role or negative role in this world drama but remains neutral and unattached throughout the Kalpa). The rest of the integers 1- 2- 3- 4- 5- 6- 7- 8- 9….etc (representing the souls numberwise) can be positive or negative and can be represented as +1, +2, +3, etc. (when the soul is 100% pure and divine) and likewise as –1, –2, –3, etc.(when the soul becomes vicious and impure).

Zero and 1 are the most important integers in numerology.
There is no integer between zero and 1.
Any integer if multiplied by 1 remains the same and if multiplied by zero is reduced to zero.
No.1 is a part and parcel of every integer except zero.
Now when any integer – say no. 7 is expressed in relation to no.1 or zero—we get the following results.

7 x 1 = 7 ------- 7/1 = 7
7 x 0 = 0 ------- 7/0 = infinity

1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 7
0+0+0+0+0+0+0 = 0

It means that all integers if they want to retain their individual identity then they have to relate to No.1 and not to zero—any integer relating to zero is reduced to zero.
Any Integer (soul) combined with One (Prajapita Brahma) or served by One (Prajapita Brahma) makes no difference to the integer. The integer (soul) does not change.

Any integer (soul) combined with zero (0, Supreme Soul) makes the integer to lose it's identity and the integer too becomes Zero (luvleen in Zero).

Any integer when served by Zero (0, Supreme Soul, the most obedient servant) makes the integer infinite (Master Sarva Shaktimaan).

Any integer (soul) combined with another integer (soul) changes the integer taking it away from Zero (SS) and One (PB).

Any integer (soul) served by another integer (soul) changes the integer bringing it closer to Zero (SS) and One (PB).

One and Zero are special. In Sangamyug, One is always combined with Zero and hence is also always served by Zero thence One is SarvaShaktimaan. And not Master SarvaShaktimaan like other integers which are not always combined and hence not always served by Zero.

Spiritual Mathematics is little different. Here an integer when becomes Zero automatically also becomes infinite.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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