Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

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xpbk
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Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 11 Sep 2019

Whatsapp dvara mile huwe Murli ke points jisse hi main xpbk bana..
'Murli points observed through Whatsapp through which I became an Ex-PBK.'

18.3.63 पु.1 के मध्य में, "प्रजापिता नाम सिर्फ ब्रह्मा का है| विष्णु को व शंकर को प्रजापिता नहीं कहेंगे"|
'The name Prajapita is ONLY of Brahma. Vishnu, or Shankar, would NOT be called Prajapita.'

4.8.64 पु.1 के अंत में, "ब्रह्मा एक ही बच्चा है शिव का|... प्रजापिता, शंकर को व विष्णु को नहीं कहेंगे| प्रजापिता एक ही ब्रह्मा को ही कहा जाता है|... "
'Brahma is the ONLY ONE child of Shiva. ... Shankar or Vishnu would NOT be called Prajapita. ONLY ONE Brahma is called Prajapita. ...'
पु.2 के मध्य में "ब्र.वि.शं है सूक्ष्मवतनवासी| उसमें भी ब्रह्मा को प्रजापिता कहते| सूक्ष्मवतन में तो मनुष्य सृष्टि नहीं रची जाती| शंकर को, विष्णु को प्रजापिता नहीं कह सकते| प्रजापिता तो जरूर यहाँ होगा"|
'BVS are residents of the Subtle Region. Among them, ONLY Brahma is called Prajapita. A human world is not created in the Subtle Region. Shankar or Vishnu CANNOT be called Prajapita. Prajapita has definitely to be here.'

20.6.64 पु.2 के आदि में, "वास्तव में शिव लिंग तो है नहीं| वह तो स्टार है| शेप ऐसे होने से समझते है माताओं को शिवलिंग की पूजा नहीं करनी चाइए| इनकी पूजा तो बहुत करनी चाइए"|
'In fact, He (Shiva) is not a Shivling. He is a Star. Because of such a shape (of Shivling) they believe that mothers should not worship a Shivling. This one (Shiva) should be worshiped the most.'

30.6.64 पु.2 के आदि में, "शिव और शंकर को मिलाना मूर्खता है"| आगे आता है "अब राम कहाँ और नारायण कहाँ"!
'To mix Shiva with Shankar is stupidity.' ... 'Now, where is Rama, and where is Narayan'!

xpbk
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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 13 Sep 2019

Important point:
Sorry if someone had already shared this.

29.6.68 AM, at the end of page 1,

जब 60 (?) वर्ष के होते हैं उस अवस्था में बच्चा पैदा होता है|(?) यह भी विचार उठते हैं ना| जरूर वहां का क़ायदा होगा बच्चा किस आयु में आवेगा| वहाँ तो सभी रेगुलर चलता है ना| वह तो आगे चलकर मालूम पड़ेगा| ऐसे तो नहीं 15/20 वर्ष में कोई बच्चा होगा जैसे कि यहाँ होता रहता है| नहीं| हाँ आयु ही 150 वर्ष होती है तो बच्चा कब आवेगा| जब फुल जवानी होती है| आधा लाइफ से थोड़ा आगे (75-80 ?)| उस समय बच्चा आता है; क्योंकि वहाँ आयु बड़ी होती है| एक ही तो बच्चा आना है| फिर बच्ची भी आनी है| कायदा होगा| पहले बच्चा या बच्ची की आत्मा आती है? विवेक कहते है पहले बच्चे की ही आत्मा आनी चाइए| पहले मेल पीछे फीमेल| 8/10 वर्ष का फर्क भी होता होगा| दोनों की आयु बड़ी है तो आने में भी जरूर फर्क रहेगा| 8/10 वर्ष देरी से आवेंगे|

A son is born at the time when they are 60 (?) years old.(?) Such thoughts also arise. Surely there will be a system there, at which age a son will be born. There, everything occurs systematically, which you will come to know as you progress. It is not that a son will be born at the age of 15/20, just as it takes place here. No. The total age itself is 150 years there, so when will the child come? When they are fully grown up. A little ahead of half of the life (75-80 ?). At that time, the son arrives, because there is a long life there. Only one son has to come. Then a daughter also has to come. There will be a system. Boy's soul will come first, or girl's soul? Wisdom says that the soul of the boy should come first. First Male, then female. There will also be a difference of 8/10 years. As they both live longer, there will definitely be a difference in their arrival. There will be a difference of 8/10 years.


NOTE added by SAT:

Above SM has been revised on 19.06.2019 - see attachment below -
1. The sentence, ‘जब 60 वर्ष के होते हैं उस अवस्था में बच्चा पैदा होता है|’ / ‘A son is born at the time when they are 60 years old.’ is MISSING, or has been intentionally OMITTED by BK Org, in the SAME Version revised on 19.06.2019.
2. The sentence, ‘आधा लाइफ से थोड़ा आगे| उस समय बच्चा आता है|’ is rather ambiguous, and could mean, EITHER, ‘they have a son when they are just BEFORE/UNDER half way through their lifespan.’; OR, it could ALSO mean, ‘they have a son when they are just AFTER/OVER half way through their lifespan.’
3. If the sentence in point 1 is retained, and is correct, and IF it is a statement, and NOT a question, then, although same has been OMITTED in the SAME Version revised on 19.06.2019 by BK Org, then, the correct interpretation would be, ‘they have a son when they are just BEFORE/UNDER half way through their lifespan.’ i.e. FIRST a son, when they are around 60 years old, and THEN a daughter, when they are around 70 years old - during Golden Age.
4. If the sentence in point 1 is retained, and is correct, and IF it is NOT a statement, but only a question, due to which same may have been intentionally OMITTED in the SAME Version revised on 19.06.2019 by BK Org; in this case, the correct interpretation would be, ‘they have a son when they are just AROUND half way through their lifespan.’ i.e. FIRST a son, when they are around 70 years old, and THEN a daughter, when they are around 80 years old - during Golden Age.
5. Some other sentences have ALSO been OMITTED, and the ORIGINAL Version has been edited by BK Org. While this is acceptable, the OMISSION of the sentence in point 1 would be CONSEQUENTIAL, ONLY IF same is a statement!

Following is a presentation of the above Version, as it appears in the revised SM of 19.06.2019, in Official Madhuban Murli Website https://madhubanmurli.org/#hi+2019-06-19 & https://madhubanmurli.org/#en+2019-06-19 -

पहले-पहले सूर्यवंशी-चन्द्रवंशी ही आते हैं। जो बाप से अच्छी रीति पढ़ते हैं, वही नम्बरवार सूर्यवंशी, चन्द्रवंशी में शरीर लेते हैं। वहाँ विकार की तो बात नहीं। योगबल से आत्मा आकर गर्भ में प्रवेश करती है। उससे समझेंगे कि मेरी आत्मा इस शरीर में जाकर प्रवेश करेगी। बुढ़े समझते हैं - हमारी आत्मा योगबल से जाकर यह शरीर लेगी। मेरी आत्मा अब पुनर्जन्म लेती है। वह बाप भी समझते हैं - हमारे पास बच्चा आया है। बच्चे की आत्मा आ रही है, जिसका साक्षात्कार होता है। वह अपने लिए समझते हैं हम जाकर दूसरे शरीर में प्रवेश करते हैं। यह भी विचार उठते हैं ना। जरूर वहाँ का कायदा होगा। बच्चा किस आयु में आयेगा, वहाँ तो सब रेग्युलर चलता है ना। वह तो आगे चल महसूस होगा। सब मालूम पड़ेगा, ऐसे तो नहीं 15-20 वर्ष में कोई बच्चा होगा, जैसे यहाँ होता है। नहीं, वहाँ आयु 150 वर्ष की होती है, तो बच्चा तब आयेगा जब आधा लाइफ से थोड़ा आगे होंगे, उस समय बच्चा आता है क्योंकि वहाँ आयु बड़ी होती है, एक ही तो बच्चा आना होता है। फिर बच्ची भी आनी है, कायदा होगा। पहले बच्चे की फिर बच्ची की आत्मा आती है। विवेक कहता है पहले बच्चा आना चाहिए। पहले मेल, पीछे फीमेल। 8-10 वर्ष देरी से आयेंगे। आगे चल तुम बच्चों को सब साक्षात्कार होना है। कैसे वहाँ की रस्म-रिवाज है, यह सब बातें नई दुनिया की बाप बैठ समझाते हैं। बाप ही नई दुनिया स्थापन करने वाला है। रस्म-रिवाज भी जरूर सुनाते जायेंगे। आगे चल बहुत सुनायेंगे और तब साक्षात्कार होते रहेंगे। बच्चे कैसे पैदा होंगे, कोई नई बात नहीं।
“At first, it is only those of the sun and moon dynasties who come down. Those who study very well with the Father are the ones who come, number-wise, into the sun and moon dynasties and adopt bodies. There is no question of vice there. A soul comes and enters a womb through the power of Yoga. From this you would understand that you, the soul, will go and enter a body. Old people understand: Our souls will go and take other bodies through the power of Yoga. I, the soul, will now take rebirth. A father also understands: A child has come to me. The soul of the child is coming and they have a vision of that. The soul understands that he will go and enter another body. These thoughts arise. There will definitely be laws there regarding the age that they have a child. Everything there works on a very regular basis. You will know all about that as you progress further; you will know everything. There, it is not like it is here where children of 15 to 20 years of age give birth to children. No, there, the lifespan is 150 years, so they have children when they are just under half way through their lifespan. They have children at that time because the lifespan there is long. They have only one son anyway, and then they have one daughter; that is the law. First the soul of the son comes and then the soul of the daughter comes. Reason says that the son has to come first. First the male and then the female who would come eight to ten years later. As you children progress further, you will have visions of everything. The Father sits here and explains to you what all the systems and customs of the new world will be. It is only the Father who establishes the new world. He will definitely continue to tell you about the customs and systems. As you progress further, He will tell you many things and you will then continue to have visions. How children are born there is not a new thing.”

SM 19.06.2019.docx
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xpbk
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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 13 Sep 2019

Which part of India is referred to as Magadh in the Murlis?

Proof 1: 30.6.1964.AM, in the middle of page 4
बाबा का बर्थ प्लेस कहते ही है, भारत में ही आते हैं| इसको मगध देश कहते हैं| सिंध में मगरमच्छ होते हैं तो नाम ही मगध देश पड़ा है| सरस्वती भी वहां से निकली है| शिवबाबा भी वहां आते हैं| ब्रह्मा भी वहां से निकला है| तुम जानते हो बाबा कहाँ आए| बाबा की प्रवेशता हुई| ध्यान में चले जाते थे| समझते थे यह जादूगर है|
It is said about Baba’s birth place that he comes in Bharat only. It is called Magadh country. There are lot of crocodiles in Sindh, hence the name Magadh is given. Saraswati has also come from there. Shiv Baba also comes there. Brahma also came from there. You know where Baba comes. (When Shiv) Baba entered, people used to go into trance. They thought that he (Brahma Baba) is a magician.

Proof 2: 5.12.68.PM, at the end of page 1
सिंध में यह सब बहुत है; क्योंकि बाप भी सिंध में आते हैं| मगध देश में आते हैं|
There is a lot of this in Sindh; Because the Father also comes in Sindh. He comes in Magadh country (Sindh).

Proof 3: 6.10.68.AM, in the middle of page 3
इसलिए बाप समझाते हैं यह जरूर सभी को मालूम होना चाहिए कि भारत बड़े ते बड़ा तीर्थ है जहाँ बेहद का बाप आते हैं| ऐसे नहीं कि सारे भारत में विराजमान है| शास्त्रों में तो मगध देश लिखा हुआ है; परन्तु नॉलेज कहाँ सुनाई, आबू में कैसे आया| दिलवाला मंदिर भी यहाँ पूरा यादगार है| जिन्होंने यह बनाया है| उन्हों की बुद्धि में आया और बनाया| एक्यूरेट मॉडल तो बना न सके| बाप यहां ही आकर सर्व की सद्गति करते हैं| मगध देश में नहीं| वह तो पाकिस्तान हो गया| यह फिर है नापाकिस्तान|
Therefore, the Father explains that everyone must definitely know that Bharat is the biggest pilgrimage place where the unlimited Father comes. It is not that He is present all over India. Magadh is the name written in the scriptures; But where did he impart the knowledge, how did he come to Abu? The Dilwala temple is also complete memorial here. Whoever had built same, it just came to their mind and they built it. They could not create an accurate model. The Father only comes here and grants salvation to all. Not in Magad (Sindh - He does not grant salvation in Sindh, but at Abu). That is Pakistan now. Then this one is Na-Pakistan.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 13 Sep 2019

8.10.65.AM, in the beginning of page 1,

स्वयं ब्रह्मा को मुखवंशावली नहीं कहेंगे| ब्राह्मण ब्रह्मा मुखवंशावली हैं| ब्रह्मा शिव की मुखवंशावली नहीं है| शिवबाबा तो आकर इनमें प्रवेश करते हैं, अपना बनाते हैं| यह भी क्रिएशन है| पहले ब्रह्मा को रचते हैं| विष्णु को पहले नहीं रचते| गाया भी जाता है ब्रह्मा, विष्णु और शंकर| विष्णु, शंकर और ब्रह्मा नहीं गाया जाता| पहले ब्रह्मा को रचते हैं| ... (बीच में समझाया कि ब्रह्मा को मात-पिता कहा जाता है)... तभी पूछते हैं मम्मा को मम्मा हैं? कहेंगे, हाँ| ब्रह्मा मम्मा की भी मम्मा है| ब्रह्मा की कोई मम्मा नहीं| यह मम्मा (ब्रह्मा) फीमेल न होने के कारण माता रूप में मम्मा चाहिए| तो ब्रह्मा की पुत्री सरस्वती| ब्रह्मा खुद मम्मा होते हुए, सरस्वती को मम्मा कहते हैं|

Brahma himself would not be called Mouth-born progeny. Brahmins are Brahma’s Mouth-born progeny. Brahma is not Mouth-born progeny of Shiv. ShivBaba comes and enters him, and makes him His own. He is also a creation. Brahma is created first. Vishnu is not created first. It is also sung: Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. It is not sung: Vishnu, Shankar and Brahma. Brahma is created first ... (in the middle it is explained that Brahma is called the Mother-Father) ... So we ask: Does Mama (Om Radhe) have a Mother? You will say, yes. Brahma is also the (Alokik) Mother of Mama (Om Radhe). There is no (Alokik) Mother of Brahma. Because this Mama (Brahma) is not female, Mama is needed in the form of (Alokik) Mother. So Saraswati is the daughter of Brahma. Brahma himself being Mama, calls Saraswati as Mama.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 14 Sep 2019

This post may be moved to an appropriate topic, if required.

S.M.24.5.64.AM, in the middle of page 1
भल 25 वर्ष से रहते हैं; परन्तु बहुत हैं इन गंभीर बातों समझते नहीं हैं| रोज नया सुनाते रहते हैं| कराची से लेकर मुरली निकलती आई है| कराची से लेकर पहले बाबा मुरली चलाते नहीं थे, रात को 2 बजे उठकर 15-20 पेज लिखते थे, बाप लिखवाते थे| फिर उसकी कॉपियाँ निकलती थीं| भक्तिमार्ग में तो शास्त्र आदि के कागज़ संभालते हैं| दिन-प्रतिदिन बड़े किताब बनाते जाते हैं| कितनी बायोग्राफी बनाते जाते हैं| वह फिर पढ़कर रखते हैं| तुम तो मुरली पढ़कर फेंक देते हो; नहीं तो यह वर्शन्स रखने चाहिए हमेशा के लिए; परन्तु नहीं जानते हैं| (आगे बताया गया कि विनाश में यह सब दब जाएंगे, जिसकी वजह से कुछ लोग समझते कि यही मुरली शास्त्र बनेंगे, ऐसा हो सकता कि नहीं यह तो आप खुद सोच लीजिए|)

Although many have been staying here for 25 years, but there are many who do not understand these serious things. Baba keeps teaching new things every day. Murlis started coming out from Karachi. Baba did not speak Murli before in Karachi (directly), he used to get up at 2 in the night and write 15-20 pages, the Father (Shiva) would have him write. Then it’s copies used to come out. On the path of devotion, they preserve the documents of scriptures, etc. They keep on making larger books every day. How many biographies are made! They then read and keep them. You read and throw away the Murli; otherwise, these versions should be kept forever; But you do not know. (It was further told “all this will be submerged during destruction”, on the basis of which, some think that these Murlis become scriptures in the Copper Age. Is that possible or not is something that you should think and understand by yourselves).

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 14 Sep 2019

This post may be moved to an appropriate topic, if required.

S.M.7.1.69.PM, in the middle of page 1,
उस समय तो लाखों, करोडो समझते जावेंगे| वायुमंडल ही ऐसी होगी| ...घुटका खाने का समय न रहेगा| बहुत सजाएँ भी होगी| कोई मर (भी) जावेंगे| होंगे वही जो कल्प कल्प होते हैं| (यह काफी इंटरेस्टिंग मुरली है विनाश के बारे में| ख़ास आखरी आधी मुरली| एक दिन ट्रांसलेट करेंगे, या पीबीके में किया होगा तो मिल जायेगा उधर से ही|)

At that time, lacs, crores of people will understand. The atmosphere itself will be like that ... There will be no time to doubt. There will be lot of punishments too. Some will die (too). Only those will survive, who survive every Cycle.
(This is an interesting Murli on destruction. Especially, the last half of the Murli/page. We will try and translate one day, or check if this is already available with PBKs).

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 14 Sep 2019

This post may be moved to an appropriate topic later, if required.

This is more related to 'When does Golden ERA actually commence?' topic or that related to Radha-Krishna's birth and their parents.

S.M.8.12.67.AM, in the middle of page 3
तुम जानते हो पुरानी दुनियां विनाश हो जावेगा। नई दुनियां की स्थापना हो जावेगी। तो बचेंगे वह देखेंगे और वर्णन भी कर सकेंगे। बाकी हम बचे हैं। कुछ रावण सम्प्रदाय के और कुछ राम सम्प्रदाय के होंगे। रावण सम्प्रदाय के तो फिर आवेंगे नहीं। वह तो फिर बिल्कुल पिछाडी़ में आवेंगे। तुम बिल्कुल नये और वह बिल्कुल पुराने। नये यहां रहेंगे बाकी सब चले जावेंगे। सतयुग-त्रेता में आवेंगे नहीं| कमाई ही नहीं की। यह सब बातें आगे चलकर समझते रहेंगे। अभी टाइम पडा़ है। बाबा और भी प्वाइंट्स बताते रहेंगे। अभी तुम समझते हो स्वर्ग फिर कैसे होगा। हीरे-जवाहर आदि कहां से आवेंगे। सतयुग में थे तो जरूर ना। जैसे थे वैसे ही फिर होंगे। अभी यह खयाल नहीं करते। इतने जवाहर-हीरे आदि कहां से आवेंगे? नई दुनियां में सब कुछ होगा जरूर। आगे चलकर यह भी सब पिछाडी़ की बातें तुम समझते जावेंगे। दुनियां कसै बदलती है। सोना,हीरे,जवाहर आदि सब कहां से आते हैं? आगे चल तुम समझ लेंगे।

You know that the old world will be destroyed. The new world will be established. So those who survive, they will see and can also describe, that the rest of us have survived. Some will belong to the Ravana community, and some will belong to the Rama community. Ravan community will not come again (after Lakshmi and Narayan ascend the throne). They will then come at the very end. You are completely new, and they are completely old. The new ones will stay here, and everyone else will go back. They will not come in the golden and silver ages. They did not earn. We will continue to understand all these things later. We still have time. Baba will continue to tell you more points. You now understand how heaven will be. Where will diamonds, jewels etc. come from? They were definitely present in the Golden Age. It will happen again as it was. Do not consider this now. Where will so many jewels and diamonds come from? Everything will definitely happen in the new world. As you progress, you will understand all these things of the last period. How the world changes. Where do gold, diamonds, jewels etc. come from? You will understand as you progress.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 14 Sep 2019

This post may be moved to a relevant topic.

S.M.25.5.68.AM, at the end of page 2,
“बाप अपनी बच्ची को भी स्त्री बनाकर गंदा कर देते हैं। एक ऐसा केस चला था, बच्ची को खराब किया था। जब कोर्ट में उनसे पूछा गया तो बोला यह तो हमारा ही पैदा किया हुआ फूल है”।
“The (corporeal) father also makes his daughter dirty by making her his wife. One such case went on, (father) spoiled the child (daughter). When he was asked in the court, he said that this is my own flower, born out of me”.

इस पॉइंट को जब ऑडियो में देखेंगे तो ऐसा लगता कि कागज की मुरली ठीक से टाइप नहीं किये गए| काफी बातें तो स्किप होती ही हैं जो बहुत ही कॉमन हैं| 50% भी टाइप नहीं किया गया कोई भी वाणी को| लेकिन आश्चर्य की बात यह रही की कुछ अलग बातें कागज़ में टाइप किया जाता है जो कि ऑडियो में बाबा ने कभी बोला ही नहीं| जैसे कि यह ऊपर वाला पॉइंट तो अलग ही तरह से बताया और शायद किसी बच्ची की पोतामेल की बात हो रही है| कागज़ की मुरली में कोई कोर्ट में चलाया गया केस की बात लिखी है, जैसे कि यह ब्रह्मा बाबा की लौकिक जीवन में घटित हुई हो, और वह इस मुरली में बता रहे है|

ऑडियो में बरोबर @19.40 मिन. से 20.15 मिन. तक सुनो और कागज़ से वेरीफाई करो|

When you listen to this point in the audio recording of Brahma Baba, it seems that the Murlis were not typed properly. Many things are skipped in the paper version, which is very common. Even 50% was not typed in any of the Murlis. But the most astonishing thing is that some entirely different things are typed in the paper versions, which were never spoken by Baba in the audio. For example, this above point is told in a completely different manner in the audio; and maybe there is talk on some daughter’s potamail (chart). But in the paper version, it is written about a case that went on in a court, as if this is something that happened in Brahma baba's laukik life, and he is sharing the same in the Murli.

Listen to this audio carefully, exactly between @ 19.30 mins and 20.15 mins. And verify with the paper version as mentioned in the above point. Sorry, we have not translated the audio yet.

Link for the audio: http://www.PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/1968/45.mp3

In continuation to above, pls refer to the scanned version as well, which is not computer typed.
http://PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/orgl ... 5-5-68.pdf
Same mistake again.


NOTE added by SAT:

The above SM has been revised on 27.05.2019,
Official Madhuban Murli Website -
https://madhubanmurli.org/#hi+2019-05-27 & https://madhubanmurli.org/#en+2019-05-27

Copy attached below -
SM 27.05.2019.docx
(75.84 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

The above point is missing in the revision dated 27.05.2019.
And SEVERAL SENTENCES have been INTENTIONALLY omitted by the BK Organization.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 15 Sep 2019

Sorry for making this post a little long.

S.M.1.3.68.A.M, from the end of page 2 to end of page 3 :
1.3.68.A.M.पु.2 के अंत से पु.3 के अंत तक और ऑडियो में 18.15 मिन. से शुरू होता है| इसको पूरा वेरीफाई करेंगे तो काफी बातें समझ में आएँगी|

कागज में पु.2 के अंत में "बाप भल यहीं बैठे हैं"| यह ऑडियो में आया ही नहीं| इसके बाद काफी बातें कागज़ में स्किप हुई, हमेशा होता है| कभी 40-50% तक भी टाइप नहीं कर पाए यह लोग| जैसे कि ऑडियो में आया "जब तक खुद बाप बन जाए"| यह सब कागज में नहीं मिलते| अभी यह उदाहरण क्यों लिया? क्यों कि यह बात "जब तक खुद बाप बन जाए... बाप अपुन को बच्चा समझते नहीं... खुद ही बाप बन जाते .. दुनिया है नहीं कुछ भी ... हम, तुम बच्चों को ही देखते रहते हैं....मै तुमको भी नहीं देखता हूँ" वगैरा जो ऑडियो में 18.40 मिन. से लगभग 19.35 मिन. तक यह आता है| जो यहाँ कागज़ में नहीं है| लेकिन यही बातें दूसरी कागज़ की मुरली में मिलते हैं| जैसे कि 29.3.68. A.M. पेज 3 में शुरू के 12-13 लाइन छोड़के आगे पढ़ते जाओ पूरा पेज| इसमें काफी बातें मिलेंगी जो 1.3.68.A.M की ऑडियो में बाबा बता रहे हैं| जो उसी दिन की कागज़ की मुरली में नहीं हैं| इसके अलावा इसी तरह की बातें 16.3.68.A.M पेज 1 के मध्य में, 17.3.68.A.M पेज 3 के आदि में, 9.3.68.A.M पेज 3 के आदि में (सर्च लाइट देने की बातें) आई हैं| जब कि यह सब वाणियां बाद में चली हैं या लिखी गई है , इनसे पहले तो यह ऑडियो 1.3.68.A.M चल चुका था| यह ऐसे आगे पीछे क्यों टाइप किया जा रहा है?

1.3.68.A.M. from the end of page 2 to the end of page 3 and in the audio, it starts from 18.15 mins. If you verify this thoroughly- paper v/s audio recording, you will understand a lot of things.

"Though the Father (Shiv) is sitting right here", comes at the end of page 2 in the paper. The same is not present in the audio. After this a lot of things were skipped in the paper version, which happens very often. These people (BKs) were never able to type even 40-50%. Like, in the audio it comes "until one becomes the Father Himself". You will not find this in the paper version of Murli. But why am I taking this example particularly? Because these, "until one becomes the Father Himself ... the Father does not consider Himself to be a child ... they, themselves, become the Father .. (as if) the world doesn’t exist at all ... I keep watching only you children….I don't even see you", etc etc which you may find in the audio between 18.40 mins and 19.35 mins, all are not present in the paper Murli, but the same things are found in many other paper Murlis. Such as 29.3.68. A.M, page 3, skip the first 12-13 lines and read rest of the page. A lot of things will be found here in this, which Baba is telling in the audio of 1.3.68.A.M. And the same is not present in the paper Murli of the SAME day (1.3.68.AM). Apart from this, similar things have come up in some other Murlis- in the middle of 16.3.68.A.M page 1, in the beginning of 17.3.68.A.M page 3, in the beginning of 9.3.68.A.M page 3 (about giving search light). While all these were spoken or typed later, between 9.3.68 and 29.3.68 and this audio was already played before, on 1.3.68.A.M. Why is it being typed back and forth like this?


इसमें सोचने और मंथन के लिए काफी जगह है जो हर एक खुद करें| मैं कुछ बातें रखता हूँ,
1. BKs ने सीधा सीधा वाणी सुनते सुनते टाइप नहीं किया| बाद में शॉर्ट में, अच्छे व्याकरण के साथ टाइप किया| भले, टाइपराइटर से भी किया हो या हाथ से भी लिखा हो|| यह कागज़ की बातें अच्छे फॉर्मेट में तो है ही, साथ में, काफी कुछ बातें ऊपर से डाल दिया गया है|
2. PBKs में बताया जाता था कि पहले मुरली 10-12 पेज की होती थी जो BKs शार्ट करते करते अब 3-4 पेज तक आगया है| मैं ऐसा बिलकुल नहीं मानता हूँ | यह मुरलियाँ शुरू से ही 4-5 पेज में टाइप किये गए हैं|

नोट:
जब यह ऑडियो मुरली हाथ लगे, करीबन 2012-13 में, तो PBKs ने यह सब सुनके इनको टाइप किया और अपने website में अपलोड किया| जहाँ mp3 फाइल है, उसके बाजु में, text और pdf का लिंक भी है जो टाइप किया गया मुरली है|
लगभग पिछले 1.5 - 2 साल से इनका ही माना 10-12 पेज की जो मुरली हैं, क्लैरिफिकेशन दिया जारहा है बाबा दीक्षित जी द्वारा| फिर एक दिन ऐसा हुआ कि, अचानक से, उस दिन जो मुरली चल रही थी (कोई 67 की ), उसको और उसके आगे की सारी मुरलियो का pdf और text हठा दिया गया| मतलब उस दिन से लेके 1967 के बाकी सब, फिर 1968 और 1969 के भी सब| ऑडियो है, text और pdf नहीं| फिर धीरे धीरे जैसे जैसे क्लैरिफिकेशन पूरा हुआ कोई मुरली का, तो कुछ दिन बाद फिर उसे upload करते है, जो अब ओरिजिनल नहीं रहा| वैसे ही चल रहा है आज भी|

There is a plenty of room for thinking and churning on this, which each one of us should do ourselves. I want to present few issues,
1. BKs did not type these Murlis, as they were listening to direct speech (immediately). They typed them later keeping them short, with good grammar. Though they used typewriter or written it by their own hands. These paper Murlis are in good format, but many extra things have been added which were not spoken by Baba, in that particular Murli.
2. Earlier it was said in PBKs that Murli used to be 10-12 pages, which has become 3-4 pages over the period of time as BKs kept removing points in between. I do not believe that at all. These Muralis have been typed in 4-5 pages since the beginning.

Note:
When these audios were accessed during about 2012-13, the PBKs, (their NS group may be), typed these audios by listening to them and uploaded on their website. Next to where the mp3 file is, there is also a link to text and pdf, which are typed Murli versions of the audio.
For almost, the last 1.5 - 2 years, Baba Dixit ji is giving clarifications on these typed Murlis which are 10-12 pages (typed versions of audio). Then one fine day, all of a sudden, all such text and pdf formats were removed from the PBK website, starting from that Murli, of which Baba Dixit was was giving clarification on that day (some of 67's). Audio was still available, but the pdfs and text of all the Murlis were removed. That means everything from that day to rest of the 1967, then all of 1968 and 1969 too were removed. Then slowly, as soon as the clarification was completed for a Murli, it was uploaded back after few days, which is no longer original. The same is going on even today.

Link for paper Murli: http://PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/scan/535.pdf

Link for scanned version: http://PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/orgl ... 1-3-68.pdf

Link for audio: http://www.PBKs.info/Streaming/MP3/bma/1968/24.mp3

If possible, I will come up with another post soon, on Mama leaving her body.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 15 Sep 2019

PBKs समझते कि वही एडवांस पार्टी हैं जो राधा-कृष्ण जैसे बच्चों को जन्म देंगे| जो मेरे हिसाब से ठीक नहीं है| कुछ मुरलियो में हमने देखा कि उनके माप-बाप रावण सम्प्रदाय के होंगे, स्वर्ग में नहीं आएंगे| BKs भी खुद ऐसे मानते थे पहले कि कोई पतित आत्माएं होंगी जो जन्म देंगे, यह भी मुरली अनुसार सही है| मुरली में बताया है, जो जन्म देने वाले हैं, वह खुद विकार से पैदा हुए होंगे| लेकिन श्री कृष्ण का जन्म योगबल से होगा|
आजकल फिर BKs भी PBKs की तरह बता रहे थे, कुछ समय पहले की बात है जैसे इस वीडियो में| BKs शायद यह भी मानते है कि मम्मा का जन्म हुआ है| फिर राधा-कृष्ण तो जन्म लेने वाले हैं ना| न कि देनेवाले| क्योंकि BKs शायद यह भी समझते कि मम्मा एडवांस पार्टी में गई है| यह अलग बात है कि पहले एडवांस पार्टी का डेफिनिशन उनके लिए अलग था जो अभी बदल गया|

PBKs think that they are Advance Party, who give birth to children like Radha-Krishna. Which according to me is not correct. In some Murlis, we saw that parents of Radha-Krishna would belong to the community of Ravan and would not come to heaven. The BKs themselves used to believe so before, there would be some impure souls who would give birth and this is true according to Murli also. It is said in the Murlis that those who would give birth (to R-K), would have been born through vice, themselves. But Shri Krishna will be born with the power of Yoga.
But now-a-days, BKs also started believing the PBKs theory, this was some time ago, like in this video. May be, BKs also believe that Mama was re-born. But Radha and Krishna are supposed to take birth and not give birth to someone. Because, BKs also think that Mama is in Advance Party. It is a different issue, that they (BKs) had a different definition (understanding) of Advance Party earlier, and now they have changed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ7AN4ww8eg

लेकिन कुछ मुरलियों से यह जरूर साबित होता कि मम्मा का जन्म तुरंत उसी समय हो गया था जब शरीर छोड़ा था|

S.M.31.5.68.AM, in the beginning of page 4,
“इसलिए ग़रीब बहुत आते हैं। जो दो कणा भी देते हैं तो भी मिलता बहुत है। मम्मा का मिसाल है। जल्दी ही चले जाते हैं; क्योंकि योग नहीं है। कर्मातीत अवस्था न बनी। बाकी जो कमाई की है चली नहीं जाती। जन्म हुआ है तो भी बहुत ऊँच घर में। जहां सर्विस कर रही है। इनके चरित्र ही ऐसे हैं। फिर भी बहुत ताकत ले गई है ना। बेहद की बाप की ताकत ली। आत्मा में ताकत होगी तो चरित्र भी ऐसे ही चलेंगे। कृष्ण में ताकत थी। तब तो चरित्र दिखाते थे। कैसे फर्स्ट क्लास बच्चे होंगे। कब रोयेंगे नहीं। तो माँ-बाप क्या समझेंगे। कहेंगे यह तो दवेता है। देवतायें कब रोते नहीं हैं। ज़रूर कोई दैवी गुणों वाला बिछुड़ कर आया है। गुण साथ में ले आये हैं। तो जाकर सर्विस करते हैं ना। तुम शरीर छोड़ते हो तो भी सर्विसएबुल हो। जितना पहले गये हैं बड़े होकर फिर आवेंगे। आधा में छोडा़ हुआ फिर लेने आवेंगे। आगे चलकर यह भी बाबा बता देंगे कि तुम्हारा आगे वाला फलाना नाम बाला है। यह भी बतावेंगे। फिर तुमको खुशी होगी। जबकि बाप इतना सृष्टि के आदि-मध्य-अंत का राज़ समझाते हैं तो यह क्यों नहीं बतावेंगे। ड्रामा में पार्ट है”।
(गुलज़ार दादी उस वीडियो में शायद कुछ इस तरह की बातें ही कर रही है| बाकि उन्होंने सब मिक्स उप कर दिया|)

But based on some Murli points, we can very well prove that Mama was re-born right after she left her body.

(S.M.31.5.68.AM)
“That's why many poor people come. Even those who give little, still get a lot. Mama is an example (of being poor, but who still went far ahead). They leave soon (refers to such poor people - NOT to Mama), because they lack Yoga (Mama did NOT lack Yoga). They did not achieve the karmateet stage (Mama was close to her karmateet stage when she left her body in 1965). However, whatever is earned does not go away (on leaving the body). She is born in a very affluent family (this refers to Mama), where she is doing service. Her character is such. Still, she took away a lot of power. She took the power from the unlimited Father. If a soul has power, the character also will be like that. There was (Spiritual) power in Krishna, which is why he was able to display that character (even through his impure body, just before he left the body in 1969). How first class children they will be (refers to those who have left their bodies earlier)! They will never cry. So what will parents think? They will say that this one is a deity. Deities never cry. (They will think) Surely someone with divine qualities is separated from somewhere and is born. He/she has brought divine qualities with him. So they go and do service. Even if you leave the body, you are still serviceable. However early they left (their corporeal body), they will grow up again and come back. Whatever they left in the middle, they will then come to take again. Later on, Baba will also tell you that you were worthy with so-and-so name in the last birth. Baba will also tell that. You will then feel happy. When the Father explains the secrets of the beginning, middle and end of the world, why won't he tell you this? There is a part in the drama”.

(Gulzar Dadi is talking something similar to this point in that video. But she has mixed up everything)

There are some more points which talk about Mama's rebirth. I will share them tomorrow in this post itself at the end.


NOTE:
Clarification comments within brackets, which are in colour, have been added by SAT.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by admin » 15 Sep 2019

Viewers may like to review the NOTE added by SAT in the posts of ‘Brother’ xpbk -

in his first post dated 13 Sep 19 in viewtopic.php?f=37&p=54297#p54294

and also in his last post dated 14 Sep 19 in viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2720&p=54307#p54307

SAT

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 16 Sep 2019

Except for the original Murli points, I will stick to English,

Some more points on Mama’s re-birth:
1. S.M.17.3.68.AM, at the end of page 2 and in the beginning of page 3
(इससे थोड़ा पहले बाबा समझा रहें कि सब ड्रामा की भावी है| अनन्य बच्चों को भी बचा न सकें|)

"मम्मा सरस्वती कितनी अच्छी थी। साक्षात् लक्ष्मी बनने वाली, उनको भी दुःख से बचा न सके। बाप कुछ भी कर नहीं सकते। इसको कहा जाता है ड्रामा की भावी। ड्रामा का अक्षर तुम ही जानते हो। जो होना था ,सो हुआ। फिक्र काहे का। तुमको भी बेफिक्र बनाते हैं। सेकंड व सेकेंड जो कुछ होता है ड्रामा समझो। शरीर छोड़ कर जाय दूसरा पार्ट बजाया। अनादि पार्ट को तुम कैसे फेर सकते हो। भल अभी थोड़ी कच्ची अवस्था है। थोड़ा बहुत आता है। बाबा मिसाल देते हैं मम्मा की। उनको जाने का नहीं था। कहते थे पिछाड़ी में वह रहेगी। यह बूढा़ चला जावेगा ; मम्मा चली गई। भावी। कुछ कर नहीं सकते और लोग भल क्या2 भी कहे ;परंतु हमारे बुद्धि में ड्रामा का राज है। चक्र का भी मालूम है। पार्ट बजाना है। फिक्र की बात नहीं। जब तब कच्ची अवस्था है लहर थोडी़ आवेगी। बाबा कहते हैं यह भी कच्चा है"।

[Just before this point, Baba is explaining that everything is in accordance with drama, (and is not in Baba’s hands). Even the special (ananya) children could not be saved (by Baba).]

"Mama Saraswati was so good. Who actually becomes Lakshmi, even she could not be saved from sorrow. The Father cannot do anything. It is called the ‘bhavi of drama’ (it is fixed in the drama). Only you know the word ‘Drama’. Whatever was to happen, it happened. Why worry about it. The Father makes you also carefree. Whatever happens second by second, think of it as drama. (They) Left the body and played another part. How can you change the eternal part. Though the stage (of the children) is little weak as yet. So you get little disturbed. Baba gives the example of Mama. She was not supposed to go. We used to say that she would stay till the end. This old man (Brahma baba) will go away; (But) Mama is gone. Bhavi (fixed in Drama). cannot do anything, whatever other people may say; but the secret of drama is in our intellects. The cycle is also known. We have to play the part. Not to worry. When the stage (of soul consciousness) is weak then the waves (of disturbance) will come a little. Baba says he (Brahma baba) is also weak (not complete yet)".

2. S.M.7.5.68.PM, at the end of page 1 ((This point is not about Mama in particular)
“तुम संस्कार ले जाते हो राजयोग की; इसलिए तुम जितना-2 याद में रह आप समान बनाते हो उतना ऊँच जन्म। जो बच्चे जल्दी गये हैं सो कर्मातीत अवस्था में नहीं गये; क्योंकि योग में कमी थी। भल अनन्य बच्चे जाते हैं, क्यों गये, योग की कमी ड्रामा में थी। हो सकता है आत्मा में संस्कार... है। एक तो जन्म अच्छा और फिर आत्मा में संस्कार गई तो आत्मा की एक्टिविटी ऊँच होगी। जहां भी जावेंगे प्रभाव रहता है। ताकत भी रहती है ज्ञान और योग की"।

“You carry the sanskars of Rajyog; Therefore, the more you remain in remembrance and make others equal to the Father (Bapsaman), more superior the birth. The children who have gone early have not gone into a karmateet state; because Yoga was lacking. Although the special (ananya) children go, why did they go, the lack of Yoga was in the drama. It is possible that the soul carried the sanskars…. (So) Firstly the soul is good and then it carried the sanskars, hence the activity of the soul will be superior (in the next birth). Wherever they go they will have their impact. They also possess the power of knowledge and Yoga ".

3. S.M.1.5.68.PM, in the beginning of page 1
"जो सपूत बच्चे सविर्सएबुल हैं उनको जास्ती याद करते हैं। यूँ तो सभी बच्चे हैं, उनमें जो जास्ती सर्विस करते हैं। जैसे मम्मा की आत्मा गई। मम्मा कहने से शरीर पहले याद आता है। फिर समझा जाता है आत्मा चली गई। तुम अनुभव सुनाते हो, बाप भी सुनाते हैं। बाप जब आते हैं तो मम्मा की आत्मा को याद करेंगे। बहुत अच्छी सर्विस करती थी। बहुतों का कल्याण किया। ड्रामा अनुसार उनको शरीर छोड़ना था। जहाँ भी होगी वहाँ अच्छा ही पार्ट बजाती होगी"।

"The Father remembers the most those children who are worthy and serviceable. Although, all are children (of Baba), (he remembers) those who do more service. Like, the soul of Mama is gone. When we say Mama, first the body comes into mind. Then we understand that the soul is gone. You share your experiences and the Father also shares. When the Father comes (in the class), he remembers the soul of Mama. She used to do very good service. She benefitted many people. According to the drama, she had to leave her body. Wherever she is, she must be definitely playing a good role".

4. S.M.5.6.68.AM, in the middle of page 3 (This point is not particularly on Mama)
“जो योग में रह आयु बढ़ाते होंगे उनकी आयु ज़रूर बढ़ेगी। तुम कहेंगे, फलानी क्यों गई? बाबा कहेंगे, योग की ताकत न थी; इसलिए आयु नहीं बढी़। योगबल हो, तो आयु भी बढ़ती रहे। अकाले मृत्यु क्यों होना चाहिए। योगबल वाले अपनी आयु को बढ़ाते रहेंगे| अपनी खुशी से शरीर छोड़ेंगे”।

“Those who stay in remembrance would increase their lifespan, their lifespan will definitely increase. You will ask, why did so-and-so (or she) left (the body)? Baba would say, there was no power of Yoga; Therefore, the age did not increase. If you have the power of Yoga, then your age also increases. Why should there be untimely death. Those with Yoga power will continue to increase their lifespan. (They) Will leave their body happily”.

Let’s see some more Murli points briefly:

5. S.M.24.10.66, at the end of page 3,
“जैसे मम्मा सूक्ष्मवतन में प्युअर फरिश्ता है ना“|
“Like Mama is a pure angel in the Subtle Region”.
--You should read the second half of page 3 of this Murli. Baba is talking about single taaz(crown), but in a different sense. Here, the soul is pure, but not the body, or there is no body. So how do we depict the single taaz which is of purity of the soul, when there is no body? Because, the taaz, whether it is single or double is always shown on the body. So, the above Murli point applies in that way.

6. S.M.8.11.66.PM, at the extreme end of page 1,
“बाबा बच्चों को बहुत मदद करते हैं।बच्चों को पता नहीं पड़ता है। मम्मा भी कितनी सविर्स कर रही है।जैसे बाबा वैसे मम्मा करती है”|
“Baba helps children a lot (during service). Children do not come to know about it. Mama is also doing so much service. Just like Baba does, Mama does in the same way”.
----Mama left her corporeal body in June 1965. This is may be related to Subtle Region.

7. S.M.5.1.67.A.M, at the extreme end of page 3
"इस समय इनका यह पार्ट है। मम्मा भी कोई के तन में जाकर सर्विस कर सकती है"।
" This is his (Shiv’s) part at this time. Mama also can enter in someone's body and do service ".
---Same as the last point

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 16 Sep 2019

8. S.M.8.1.67.A.M, at the end of page 2,
"मैं इस तन में प्रवेश करता हू।यह मुकर्रर तन है। दूसरे कोई में कभी आते ही नहीं हैं। हां, इन बच्चों में कब मम्मा बाबा आ सकते हैं मदद करने। कब अनन्य बच्चे भी आ सकते हैं"।
"I enter this body. This is a fixed body (Chariot). He NEVER comes in anyone else at all (in 'Sakar'). But yes, Mama, Baba can enter in the children to help (in service). Sometimes, even the special (ananya) children may come (enter)".
---If you read this Murli further (end of page 2 and the beginning of page 3), Baba then talks about trance, Bhog and all. Here the context is also important to understand this point. This is an important point for PBKs also.

9. S.M.18.8.65.AM, in the middle of page 3
"मम्मा सूक्ष्मवतन में सर्विस कर रही है"।
"Mama is doing service in the Subtle Region".
---Again Subtle Region.

There are many such points on Mama and the special (ananya) children. There is one such point which says that Mama is good in knowledge, but Baba is good in Yoga and hence his lifespan increases. Another point which talks about Mama in the Subtle Region in little detail. I will share them if I find.

Finally some notes and questions:
*I don’t agree with PBKs on their belief that Mama is playing her role by entering in Sister Vedanti and their Jagadamba (Kamla Devi Dixit, now Sharma)
*Mama had taken re-birth, but that doesn’t mean she will give birth through the present body to someone else, or that she enters heaven with this present body. She will complete her purusharth, leave the body and take birth as Radha.
*Now the question is, what about the rest of those who left their corporeal body? BKs even offer Bhog. It is also possible to call a soul and offer Bhog after it leaves the body but not forever. How many of them have taken re-birth?
*Why Brahma baba has not taken re-birth? It was said in most of the Murlis that even Brahma is not karmatit. It is said even in the last Murli i.e 18.1.69.P.M, in the middle of page 1.
*What about that Advance Party, which Avyakt BapDada used to get emerged in the Subtle Region and even have discussions. Even with Mama. Do you remember those trance messages? What was that all about? What about that Advance Party? I don’t know anything on this yet.
*What Avyakt Vanis speak on Mama and the special (ananya) children who left their body?
* What about that trance message which says that Mama took birth in Nepal?
We need to find out these and verify. For Eg: Just go to http://www.bkdrluhar.com/00-Htm-Avyakt% ... nglish.htm
then select some file and start searching for some keywords like ‘Mama’, ’Subtle Region’, etc
*Is it possible that those who left their body including Mama, took birth after few months or years and not immediately? Of course, a soul must stay for 4-5 months in the womb and I am not talking about that.
*it was mostly said in the Murlis that Subtle Region doesn’t actually exist, there is nothing as such. I don’t believe in pbk’s version of Subtle Region. Then Avyakt BapDada clarified (in some Avyakt Vani of Jan 1969, may be 1st or 2nd Vani) that it actually exists, and also given clarification on whatever was said in the Murlis on Subtle Region.
*Some think, Om Radhe Mama only is ShivBaba and she is playing her role somewhere, may be in Subtle Region.
*What Pankaj Bhai and other Vishnu parties have to say on this? I am not sure.
*It is important to understand what is Subtle Region and Advance Party based on the Murlis available. It was said in many Murlis that Mama, Baba would also go in advance, the special children will also go. I don’t think it is somewhere above up there. Also, how is it possible that Baba is up there, and Mama is somewhere down here? Both should be in advance.

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Re: Murli points which influenced a PBK to become an Ex-PBK

Post by xpbk » 16 Sep 2019

// Subtle Region // Karmatit Stage // Angels //

We should draw a graph of ‘is Subtle Region real’- two values here, Yes and No v/s Year. Starting from the beginning till around 1950s (let’s assume), until it was not clarified in the Murlis, the answer was ‘Yes’. From around 1950s till 1969, the answer was ‘No’, as clarified in the Murlis. Then from 1969 till 2018 or so, the answer was again ‘Yes’ as re-clarified by Avyakt BapDada. Then from 2018 onwards, as we have seen Gulzar Dadi speaking, the answer is again almost ‘No’.
In most of the Murlis, it was told that there is no Subtle Region in reality. It was also explained what exactly is Subtle Region and why is that required, especially on the path of knowledge. Then there are three important terms which are co-related or synonyms- Karmateet, Angel stage, the dweller of Subtle Region and this is the last stage of purusharth after which destruction should begin. Which actually means that no one has become karmateet so far. it was also told, if the karmateet state is achieved, then this body should no longer exist, because it is impure. New body is required. Examples of Christ and others are given in the Murli. When Christ entered he was in karmatit stage, did not have his own body as it was already a vicious world. I will share the related Murli points later, they are too many. For now, you may refer the below,

(S.M.18.9.67.AM, at the end of page 3) (S.M.18.6.65.AM, in the beginning or middle of page 2) (S.M.20.7.67.PM, in the middle of page 1) (11.1.69.A.M, second half of page 3) (12.1.69.AM, in the middle of page 2) (S.M.22.11.66.A.M, in the beginning of page 2)

There are also some Murlis where it is said, once you become karmatit, you will do great service or you will be very happy and so on. So Karmatit stage, angelic stage and becoming the dweller of Subtle Region are all same or at least related. And Advance Party is different.
But there are also some Murli points which will sometimes make us feel that the Subtle Region is real, which is of course, as I understand is not right. Let’s see few such points:

S.M.30.9.67.AM, in the middle of page 3,
"कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जाए तो फिर यह शरीर न रहे। फिर नया शरीर चाहिए। जब तक नया शरीर न मिले तो सूक्ष्मवतन में ठहर जाते हैं ;परन्तु कर्मातीत अवस्था नहीं पाय सकते। फिर उनको सतयुगी शरीर चाहिए"।
"If the karmateet stage is attained, then this body will no longer be there. Then a new body is required. Until one gets new body, they stay in the Subtle Region; but (yet) they cannot attain karmateet stage. Then they need a Golden Age body."

S.M. 7.3.67.AM, at the end of page 2 (VERY IMPORTANT POINT)
"कर्मातीत अवस्था हो जावेगी तो फिर तुम सदैव हर्षित रहेंगे| तब तक कुछ ना कुछ होता ही रहेगा। ... विनाश होना है। तुम फरिश्ते बनते हो। बाकी तो थोड़े ही दिन इस दुनियां में हो। फिर तुम बच्चों को यह स्थूल वतन भासेगा ही नहीं। सूक्ष्मवतन और मूलवतन ही भासेगा। सूक्ष्मवतनवासी को कहा जाता है फरिश्ता। वो तो बहुत कम समय बनते हो जबकि तुम कर्मातीत अवस्था को पाते हो। सूक्ष्मवतन में हड्डी-मांस होता ही नहीं है। हड्डी-मासं ही नहीं है तो बाकी क्या रहा? सिर्फ सूक्ष्म शरीर ही होता है"।
"Once you attain karmateet stage, then you will always be happy. Until then something (that makes you unhappy) will keep happening.... Destruction has to happen. You become angels. You are in this world for only a few days. Then you children will not even like (or feel) this physical world. You will feel only the Subtle Region and incorporeal world. The dweller of Subtle Region is called Angel. But it’s for a very short period of time after you attain a karmateet stage. There is no bone-flesh in the Subtle Region. What else is left, if there is no bone-flesh? Only the subtle body ".
----Remember this, 'only the subtle body' and 'this stage is for only a short period time'.

S.M.28.1.67.P.M, at the end of page 1,
"ब्राह्मण फिर बनते हैं फरिश्ता। फिर बनते हैं देवता। तुम सब फरिश्ते बनते हो, फिर देवता बनते हो। फरिश्ता नाम भी है ना। सूक्ष्मवतनवासी फरिश्ते हैं। जगदम्बा ब्राह्मण है फिर फरिश्ता बन पीछे देवता बनती है"।
"Brahmins then become angels. Then they become deities. You all would become angels (first), then you become deities. The word ‘Angel’ is also famous. The dwellers of Subtle Region are angels. Jagdamba (Mama) is (also) a Brahmin (first) and then becomes an angel and finally a deity".

S.M. 2.1.66.AM, in the beginning of page 3
"आगे तुम बच्चों को यह प्रैक्टिस कराई जाती थी एकदम सूक्ष्मवतन बनाओ। आवाज़ बहुत कम। कोई भी आवे तो समझे कितना शातं में रहते हैं। हम जैसे सूक्ष्मवतन में हैं। फिर मूलवतन में चले जावेंगे। आवाज़ कम। इसको रॉयल्टी कहा जाता है। तुम विश्व के रॉयल मालिक बनते हो ना"।
"In the earlier days, you children were given this practice, make it (the atmosphere) completely a Subtle Region. The voice is very low (as in Subtle Region). If someone comes should understand how peaceful you are. Like we are in the Subtle Region. Then you will go into the corporeal world. The voice is less. This is called royalty. You become the royal owner of the world, don't you?”

S.M.18.2.68.A.M, a little before the end of page 3
"अभी तो कोई की कर्मातीत अवस्था हो न सके। वापस कोई जा न सके। जब तक विनाश न हो स्वर्ग में कैसे जावेंगे। जरूर या तो सूक्ष्मवतन में या यहां ही जन्म लेंगे। बाकी जो रहे, खड़े हुए होंगे उनका पुरुषार्थ करेंगे| बाकी वह भी जब बडे़ हो तो। यह भी ड्रामा में सारी नूँध है। तुम्हारी एकरस अवस्था तो पिछाडी़ में होगी"।
"Nobody could attain a karmateet stage now (this early). Nobody can go back. How will you go to heaven until the destruction is not happened. (Whoever leaves the body) They will definitely stay in the Subtle Region or take birth here (in this world). The rest, those who are present here and active (in their purusharth), will do their Purusharth. They also (who have left their body, will continue their purusharth ), once they (take birth and) grow up. This too is all fixed in the drama. You will attain the constant state (of soul consciousness) at the end”.

**Also refer the first half of page 2 of S.M.31.3.68.A.M and the first half of page 4 of S.M.19.3.68.A.M

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