Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2007

Dear arjun Bhai and pbk brothers.

If this simple query of "who is BapDada?" cannot be answered accurately, then what is the use of calling oneself a pbk (children of God as aimee says)?

Also i would like to know what is the difference between the 2 Murli points:
  • "Varsa Bapada se milta hai''. (The inheritance is received from BapDada),
    "ShivBaba brahma dwara varsa dete hain", (ShivBaba gives inheritance through Brahma)
Do two points carry the same meaning and are expressed in different ways?? Or they are different??

Also if PBKs believe that Avaykt BapDada means the combination of Ram + Krishna, then where is bindi ShivBap in BapDada?

shivsena.

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Post by pbkdivya » 26 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:"If we have to follow Prajapita Brahma, then how can we attain the aakari stage and nirakari stage, as Prajapita Brahma is always saakari and never aakari and nirakari !!!!!!!! "
Dear shivsena Bhai,

To become Prajapita, one has to attain the nirakari stage. If Prajapita is incapable of attaining the nirakari stage, then the 108 rudramala beads also will not attain the nirakari stage too. To become the Father of humanity, the incorporeal stage is compulsory.

Also it is said in Avyakt Vani - 5/9/74 - "Father also transformed from corporeal to subtle, he will transform from subtle to incorporeal and from incorporeal to corporeal."

So shivsena Bhai, can you inform the avaykt Vani that is above, is referring to which Father since Supreme Soul Shiv is always incorporeal?

Om Shanti, divya

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 26 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote: Also it is said in Avyakt Vani - 5/9/74 - "Father also transformed from corporeal to subtle, he will transform from subtle to incorporeal and from incorporeal to corporeal." So shivsena Bhai, can you inform the avaykt Vani that is above, is referring to which Father since Supreme Soul Shiv is always incorporeal?
Dear divya.

You have just quoted the Vani point but you have not explained who is the Father that BB is describing and which are the time frames in which the Father has achieved the 3 stages.

The above point certainly does not refer to ShivBap (as you have correctly pointed out) who is always incorporeal.

shivsena.

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Post by mitra » 26 Jun 2007

Here Father means Brahma Baba. He is now in the Subtle Region. Then he will go to the Silence world where all his memories will be deleted and then he will come to Golden Age.

IBHA
MITRA

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Post by paulkershaw » 26 Jun 2007

mitra wrote:Here Father means Brahma Baba. He is now in the Subtle Region. Then he will go to the Silence world where all his memories will be deleted and then he will come to Golden Age.
Then I don't understand (again!) - if all his memories are deleted then how will his 'subconcious' bring him around into his role the next time around?

I feel that we re-incanate into our next role due to cellular or soul memory records. Or are only his conscious memories deleted?

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Post by shivsena » 26 Jun 2007

mitra wrote:Here Father means Brahma Baba. He is now in the Subtle Region. Then he will go to the Silence world where all his memories will be deleted and then he will come to Golden Age.
Dear mitra.

Your bk view is fine. This is what we thought when we were in bk school. But i wanted to know the pbk view, as PBKs view things differently than the BKs.

shivsena.

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Post by andrey » 26 Jun 2007

Dear brother shivsena,

This is also correct from PBK point of view.

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Post by shivsena » 27 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:This is also correct from PBK point of view.
Dear andrey.

From your point of view or a pbk point of view??? Please confirm with Baba or senior PBKs.

shivsena.

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Post by andrey » 27 Jun 2007

Dear brother shivsena,

Why is the need for separation of BK, PBK? Just see the information on its own and judge yourself if it is correct or not.

BK knowledge is not incorrect knowledge. There is just the explanation of where is the Subtle Region, what does it mean, where is the silence world. Why do you ask me to adress baba if what he speaks does not hold credit for you? And you are a seniour pbk aren't you?

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit has always said to listen to one only. You like to reap credit just because you have studied a lot of Murlis and spent a lot of years in Gyan. Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that senior and junior here is in knowledge, not the years. How can i know who is senior and junior in this? Those who used to be in the knowledge for a long time have also left. Accept it as personal view.

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Post by pbkdivya » 28 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote:You have just quoted the Vani point but you have not explained who is the Father that Brahma Baba is describing
Dear shivsena Bhai,

It is none other than Rambap whom Brahma Baba is describing. Also it has never been mentioned in any Murlis that one has to attain these 3 stages after leaving their bodies. Moreover brahma baba has mother's sanskars eventhough he had a male body so definitely he can never become a Father. Brahma baba played a mother's role only and never a Father's role.
which are the time frames in which the Father has achieved the 3 stages.
You have asked an intricate question and I am extremely sure that none of us know accurately the time factor in which the Father has achieved these 3 stages. Anyway this is what I can think of.

When SS Shiv entered into Rambap in 1969, then the subtle stage or angelic stage has commenced. After contemplating and churning, Rambap became absolutely sure of his role, i.e. the supreme role and he plays the hero part on the stage of the world drama. So from the angelic stage, Rambap attained the incorporeal stage, but till today he hasn't attained the 100% nirakari stage yet.

Since all us are still in our corporeal stage, then the corporeal Father (i.e. Prajapita - Rambap) has to be present with us. So Rambap who has attained the incorporeal stage (not the complete 100% incorporeal stage) will transform back to corporeal stage when children are present. The role of Prajapita will not be over till the 5 1/2 billion souls recognized and accepted him as the Father of humanity.

Om Shanti, divya

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Post by shivsena » 28 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote: When SS Shiv entered into Rambap in 1969, then the subtle stage or angelic stage has commenced. After contemplating and churning, Rambap became absolutely sure of his role, i.e. the supreme role and he plays the hero part on the stage of the world drama. So from the angelic stage, Rambap attained the incorporeal stage, but till today he hasn't attained the 100% nirakari stage yet.
Dear divya.

If you are saying that Rambap realised his role as Supreme Soul, i.e. paramatma, then where is the question that Ram is playing prajapita? Either Ram has to be paramatma or he has to be prajapita. He cannot be both.

shivsena.

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Post by pbkdivya » 28 Jun 2007

shivsena wrote: If this simple query of "who is BapDada?" cannot be answered accurately, then what is the use of calling oneself a PBK (children of God as aimee says)?
Dear aggressive natured brother,

If every pbk is going to answer accurately, then the king souls which comprises of 108 only will exceed and, if it exceeds, then knowledge is false. What gives you the right to judge the views of the members of this forum. They are trying their best. Instead of encouraging them, you are discouraging them. A wise king will never do that. One should have a balance of the intellect and the heart to become a king who will be loved by his subjects. I am crossing my fingers that you interact with your patients in a sweet manner.
Also I would like to know what is the difference between the 2 Murli points:
"Varsa Bapada se milta hai''. (The inheritance is received from BapDada),
"ShivBaba Brahma dwara varsa dete hain", (ShivBaba gives inheritance through Brahma)
Do two points carry the same meaning and are expressed in different ways?? Or they are different?? Also if PBKs believe that Avaykt BapDada means the combination of Ram + Krishna, then where is bindi ShivBap in BapDada?
Dear shivsena Bhai,

I believe that the term 'BapDada' is the coining of SS Shiv and the soul of Ram. As there is a Murli quote dated 11/2/75, "Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar". Now Father says, "I have entered into this body. Therefore you say BapDada, but they say Shiv - Shankar."

Also in one of your postings, you have stated that the role of BapDada hasn't commenced yet. I see eye to eye to your perspectives. When Rambap attains the stage equal to ShivBaba, then the role of BapDada commences.

The Murli quotes that you have posted have different interpretations. When it is said, "ShivBaba gives inheritance through brahma", then it is construed that we receive subtle inheritance from Jagadhamba brahma. Whether in Gyan or bakti, everything takes place in a subtle form first. So first we receive subtle inheritance from Brahma and then we receive inheritance practically from BapDada.

Your views are awaited

Om Shanti, divya

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shivsena
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Post by shivsena » 28 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote: I believe that the term 'BapDada' is the coining of SS Shiv and the soul of Ram. As there is a Murli quote dated 11/2/75---"Shankar is also a deity. They have then combined Shiva and Shankar. Now Father says, 'I have entered into this body.' Therefore you say BapDada, but they say Shiv - Shankar."
Dear divya.

If 'BapDada' is coining of Supreme Soul Shiva and the soul of Ram, then may i ask what is Supreme Soul Shiva doing in the Subtle Region when the term "Avaykt BapDada" is used; Murlis say that ShivBap cannot enter into anyone in the Subtle Region.

shivsena.
Also in one of your postings, you have stated that the role of BapDada hasn't commenced yet. I see eye to eye to your perspectives. When Rambap attains the stage equal to ShivBaba, then the role of BapDada commences.
So you agree that the role of BapDada or the role of ShivBaba as Bap-teacher-Satguru has still not commenced(unlike other PBKs who feel that the 3 roles are still on in the Advance Party.)
shivsena

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Post by arjun » 28 Jun 2007

Sister PBKDivya wrote:I believe that the term 'BapDada' is the coining of SS Shiv and the soul of Ram.
I think the soul of Krishna is also included in the meaning of BapDada as explained to PBKs. 'Baap' refers to the incorporeal Father Shiv + the Father of humanity, i.e. the soul of Confluence-Aged Ram and 'Dada' refers to the soul of Golden Aged Krishna, i.e. Dada Lekhraj.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by shivsena » 28 Jun 2007

pbkdivya wrote:If this simple query of "who is BapDada?" cannot be answered accurately, then what is the use of calling oneself a PBK (children of God as aimee says)? If every PBK is going to answer accurately, then the king souls which comprises of 108 only will exceed and if it exceeds, then knowledge is false. What gives you the right to judge the views of the members of this forum. They are trying their best. Instead of encouraging them, you are discouraging them. A wise king will never do that. One should have a balance of the intellect and the heart to become a king who will be loved by his subjects. I am crossing my fingers that you interact with your patients in a sweet manner.

Dear divya.

I am not marketing a product that i need to be aggressive. i am just expressing my views on various topics and when i feel strongly about it. I try to be a little emphatic to drive a point home. I have never judged or even tried to judge anyone and i respect everyone who is on this forum and i am being benefitted by their replies (as slammer Bhai has rightly pointed out). It makes me think and churn more on this knowledge.

I have never discouraged anyone (except andreybhai who keeps on butting in with his irrelevant answers and off-tracks the discussion). Yes, sometimes i have been sarcastic (as you have pointed out) but not aggressive. If we claim that we are having a healthy debate on this forum, then one cannot be soft and polite in a debate all the time. Some emphasis, some humour, a lot of respect for others views, and some sarcasm and some comments in lighter vein can be expected. Otherwise it would be a dull affair. i have never seen a soft and polite debate in my life.

Have you seen any king who has been soft and polite with his weapons on the battlefield for 2500 years? So how can you expect any aspiring soul, who wants to be a king in 108 rudrabeads, to remain soft and polite with his weapons of knowledge in this subtle mahabharat war?

BTW, welcome to the forum. I was missing your views and comments.

shivsena.

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