Food for thought for all PBKs

DEDICATED to Ex-PBKs.
For those who wish to narrate their experiences about the BKs and PBK 'Advanced Knowledge' and post views about their NEW beliefs.
Locked
andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 07 Jun 2007

Dear brother,

In one quote from a Murli in the Gita collection, or maybe somewhere else, it was mentioned we should not fight. "My children never fight amongst themselves", that. "it is not good that we fight no matter how much we say we love the Father we should not fight", something like this. I mean that we also sometimes become childern of the Father, we have faith we don't fight, then we think of one another as brothers. Then something happens, we forget, we start to fight. We are not children anymore. We don't see one another as souls. We see an enemy.

I have seen Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit to say in one discussion (no - 34?) that when true Father comes in future there will be no need for talking.

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Post by paulkershaw » 07 Jun 2007

andrey wrote:I have seen Baba via Veerendra Dev Dixit to say in one discussion (no - 34?) that when true Father comes in future there will be no need for talking.
So can we then say that the True Father has NOT yet come, because we're still all obvioulsy talking about it. ...??? :?

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 07 Jun 2007

No, we cannot say he has not come. He has come already, but he comes in the form of the mother then in the form of the Father he is revealed in different ways. Like now we say he has come an no one listens. Some souls understand with signals, some have to be told, and some have to be beaten. Like in the Gita Arjun cries, "stop, stop i cannot bear to see", when he showed his real form.

It is said that people are not ready to believe until he assumes a fierceful, expansive form. Then it is said that it cannot be the supreme Father Shiva who assumes this form, because he is only a point, but it is the one in whom he enters, but then it is also said that he is always the Ocean of Love - means even this form is an ocean of love and needs not assume form of Dharamraj. It is said that world is changed through vision. Eyes are higher than the mouth on the face. Maybe even higher than this are teh vibrations from the forehead. Mode of service changes.

Initially the Murli like milk is given, then clarifications like nectar. All of these are still from the Father. To come means to come, to sit in the intellects of human beings, then he will be proved to be omnipresent - his rememberence wil be present to be in each and every soul and even the most atheistic soul will say, "Oh Godfather" for him in corporeal form. Also time, circumstances help. When there is turmoil people run helter-skelter and search for asylum and protection. It is said that mother will not remain mother, Father all will turn out enemies, but don't forget the Father.

new world
Vishnu Party
Posts: 178
Joined: 20 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Prajapita Brahma is not the peak

Post by new world » 31 Jul 2007

Dear PBK brothers & sisters, in Murli it is said 'Saree duniya kay jo bhee manushyamaatra hain unka rachieta Prajapita Brahma hee gaaya jaata hai. Yah chotee nahin hai' (Murli date 2-8-67 P-1) meaning only Prajapita Brahma is revealed as the creator of all the human kind of the whole world. He is not the (highest) peak.

Now the incorporeal Shiv is not considered as highest-lowest & this Murli point says that Prajapita Brahma is not the peak, i.e. the highest. Then who is at the peak, i.e. the hignest?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 01 Aug 2007

Brother new_world,

Om Shanti. I will convey the point raised by you to ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) and convey the reply. But meanwhile if you could quote one or two lines prefixing or suffixing the quoted line, then it would be more convenient for us to answer.

Although God Father Shiv is beyond comparison, if you draw comparison between the Supreme Father Shiv and Prajapita, naturally, Shiv is higher. But if you feel that there is someone higher than Prajapita Brahma and lower than Shiv, i.e. in between both of them, then I hope you would give his clear introduction to everyone.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4325
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Post by shivsena » 06 Nov 2007

A very important query to all PBKs.

In basic knowledge as per the Murlis, we were taught the whole Kalpa is of 5000 years and all the 4 ages viz. Satyug - treta - Dwapur - Kaliyug are all of equal duration (1250 years).
In advance knowledge, we were taught that during the shooting period, the satyugi shooting is 16 years (from 1960 to 1976), the tretayugi shooting is 12 years (from 1976 to 1988), the Dwapur shooting is 8 years (from 1989 to 1997) and the Kaliyugi shooting is of 4 years (from 1997 to 2000); and then it was revised in Advance Course after 2000, that one leap year should be added to every shooting, so that 4 more years were added and that the shooting would end by 2004-5. But we see that the shooting is going on still in the Advance Party. So, i want to know, in which account are these years being added?

Also one more important question: if ShivBap has given us the knowledge of all 4 ages being equal in basic knowledge, then why is He teaching us in advance knowledge, that the shooting period of all the ages are in the ration of 4:3:2:1 -- Why is there discrepancy in the teaching of ShivBap (ocean of knowledge) in basic knowledge and advance knowledge OR -- is the advance knowledge, the teaching of Krishna and ShivBap has no say in Krishna's invention of advance knowledge??

Also the unequal ratio (4:3:2:1) of the 4 ages is mentioned in the Indian mythology (scriptures) which obviously have not been read by ShivBap, as He stays in Paramdham for more than 4900 years. So, obviously, someone (Krishna) who has been reading these scriptures of Bhakti marg in the broad drama, has been giving the explanation of how the shooting of Bhakti-marg is done in Sangamyug. So does this not prove that it is Krishna who has invented the advance knowledge and not ShivBaba who is explaining the Murlis as Bap-teacher-Satguru??

Views and comments are awaited.
shivsena.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 07 Nov 2007

so, I want to know, in which account are these years being added
An old Q&A (of 2006) from my record:

Question: In the Confluence Age, at different times, the shooting of different ages in the drama goes on. Do you know which age's shooting is going on now?
Ans: The fourteen year period from 1936-37 to 1950-51 is being repeated now.
It is the interval period of revelation of the third personality, which continues for at least three and a half years (i.e. from 2005 to 2008)
Also one more important question: if ShivBap has given us the knowledge of all 4 ages being equal in basic knowledge, then why is He teaching us in Advanced Knowledge, that the shooting period of all the ages are in the ration of 4:3:2:1 -- Why is there discrepancy in the teaching of ShivBap (ocean of knowledge) in basic knowledge and Advanced Knowledge OR -- is the Advanced Knowledge, the teaching of Krishna and ShivBap has no say in Krishna's invention of Advanced Knowledge??
By giving the ratio of 4:3:2:1 during the shooting period He is tallying the shooting period with the scriptures.
Also the unequal ratio (4:3:2:1) of the 4 ages is mentioned in the Indian mythology (scriptures) which obviously have not been read by ShivBap, as He stays in Paramdham for more than 4900 years; so obviously someone (Krishna) who has been reading these scriptures of Bhakti marg in the broad drama, has been giving the explanation of how the shooting of Bhakti-marg is done in Sangamyug; So does this not prove that it is Krishna who has invented the Advanced Knowledge and not ShivBaba who is explaining the Murlis as Bap-teacher-Satguru??
Does it mean that God Shiv has no knowledge except that He is a soul and we are all souls and that we have come from the Soul World and we have to go back to the Soul World?

Or are you trying to prove that Shiv does not exist at all?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Post by new knowledge » 08 Nov 2007

Arjun Bhai, some more points for churning in relation to shooting periods -

1) Advance knowledge also talks about the shooting withing shooting, e.g, shooting of 4 ages of equal periods of 4 years for each of ages within the shooting of the Golden Age of 16 years duration (1960-61 to 1976) & similarly, shooting of 4 ages of 3, 2 & 1 years duration respectively within the shooting periods of the Silver, Copper & the iron Age of 12, 8 & 4 years duration respectively. Now if the shooting of 4 ages takes place within the Confluence Aged drama with an unequal ratio of 4:3:2:1, then why the shooting of 4 ages within shooting of each age takes place with an equal ratio?
If shooting of 4 ages takes place with an unequal ratio whthin the Confluence Aged drama, then why the shooting of 4 ages within the shooting of each age takes place with equal ratios, i.e, with equal time durations?? - This a Big Question to all PBKs.

2) If a leap year is added to shooting of every age, then why is there a leap year or at least a leap month
not added to the shooting of each of 4 ages within the shooting of each age? For example, there is a leap year (1977) between the shooting periods of the Goldan Age (from 1960-61 to 1976) & that of the Silver Age (from 1978 to 1989); but why is there no any leap year or at least a leap month in between the shooting of the Golden Age (from 1960-61 to 1964) & Silver Age (from 1965 to 1968) withing the shooting period of the Golden Age (1960-61 to 1976)?

3) If we talk of shooting within shooting, then why not to think about shooting within shooting within shooting & even about shooting within shooting within shooting within shooting???? For example, shooting of the Goldan Age (from 1960-61 to 1964) takes place within the shooting of the Golden Age (1960-61 to 1976), then why not to think about again the shooting of 4 ages within the 4 years of the shooting period (1960-61 to 1964) of the Golden Age?

4) If the shooting takes place in the direction from the Golden Age to the Iron Age in the form of Girti Kalaa (descending degrees) or Utarti Sidi (descending ladder); then why not to think about the shooting in the direction from the Iron Age to the Golden Age in the form of Chadti Kalaa (ascending degrees) or Chadti Sidi (Ascending Ladder)? What about the shooting periods of each of 4 ages during the ascending degrees/Ascending Ladder?

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4325
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Post by shivsena » 08 Nov 2007

arjun wrote: Does it mean that God Shiv has no knowledge except that He is a soul and we are all souls and that we have come from the Soul World and we have to go back to the Soul World? Or are you trying to prove that Shiv does not exist at all?
Dear arjun Bhai.

I am just trying to know why there is ambiguity in advance knowledge and basic knowledge as regards the ages of the yugas; and is it ShivBap(if he is giving advance knowledge) or is it Krishna doing the subtle shooting of Bhakti in the Advance Party.

shivsena.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 08 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:I am just trying to know why there is ambiguity in Advanced Knowledge and basic knowledge as regards the ages of the yugas; and is it ShivBap(if he is giving Advanced Knowledge) or is it Krishna doing the subtle shooting of Bhakti in the Advance Party.
Thanks for the reply.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4325
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Post by shivsena » 09 Nov 2007

arjun wrote: Or are you trying to prove that Shiv does not exist at all?
Dear arjun Bhai.

I have never said that shiv does not exist. i have always maintained that shiv (zero) remains the along with Ram's soul on this earth for 5000 years and sees this whole drama as an observer (''sadda kayam iss shristi par ek ShivBaba hi hai'') and at the right time in 1937 he then gives visions to Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani), to start the Sangamyug; and then enters Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1947 again to narrate the Murlis which give the whole knowledge in code form; this Murlis when read by Ram's soul (NO 1 SOUL) give him a clue to his own part and he starts on his effort to achieve the complete 100% nirakari stage to become like shiv; and those souls who understand this mystery-secret (that only when Ram=shiv, then only the true Gita will come forth from the mouth of Ramshivbaba) they will only come in the rosary of 108 souls.

shivsena.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Post by new knowledge » 10 Nov 2007

shivsena wrote:I have never said that Shiv does not exist.
Then submit proofs to support the logic behind the existance & relevance of such 'Shiv' who is neither God nor the Ocean of peace, bliss, happiness, knowledge & who does not possess any celestial degrees.
I have always maintained that Shiv (zero) remains the along with Ram's soul on this earth for 5000 years and sees this whole drama as an observer(''sadda kayam iss shristi par ek ShivBaba hi hai'') and at the right time in 1937 he then gives visions to Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani), to start the Sangamyug; and then enters Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1947 again to narrate the Murlis which give the whole knowledge in code form;
This part of quotation is full of contradictions. If Bindi Shiv(bap) enters the body of Dada Lekhraj for approximately 22 years from 1947 to 1969, then this clearly means that Bindi Shiv does not stay with soul of Ram during these 22 years. Then how should we accept that Bindi Shiv stays with the soul of Ram for the whole cycle of 5,000 years?

Again how could Bindi Shiv be 'an observer'? You mean that Bindi Shiv observes the drama of 5,000 years (through the body or mind & intellect of Ram??) & retrieves (remembers) all the observed facts & arranges them in the form of Murlis. Now all these processes -
  • 1) to observe the whole drama,
    2) to retrieve particular observed facts at particular date & time &
    3) to express & arrange these observed facts in the form of Murlis
- are intentional, analytical, selective & conscious processes. As the term Bindi ShivBap (as coined by you) does not have any attribute of life & he does not have any attribute of peace, bliss, happiness & knowledge; he could not be selective, intentional, analytical & conscious. Then logically we come to the conclussion that such Bindi Shiv (as believed by you) cannot be 'an observer' & could not compose Murlis, as he could not be selective, intentional, analytical & conscious.

And as Bindi Shiv is not the Ocean of knowledge (according to you) & Lekhraj Brahma could not understand the facts observed by Bindi ShivBap during 5,000 years; then both of Shiv & Lekhraj Brahma could not anayise & interprete the facts observed by Shiv. Then without the ability to analyse & interprete, how could Bindi ShivBap and/or Lekhraj Brahma arrange these facts (observed by Bindi ShivBap during the whole Kalpa of 5,000 years) in particular words & sentences in codified language to constitute Murlis, so that all & all secrets of Godly knowledge should be supposed to be hidden in Murlis???
this Murlis when read by Ram's soul(NO 1 SOUL) give him a clue to his own part and he starts on his effort to achieve the complete 100% nirakari stage to become like Shiv;
The first point of my objection is - how does Ram' s soul get clue to his own part by reading Murlis which are supposed (by you) to be collections of facts observed by Bindi Shiv (who is supposed by you to possess no any knowledge)?
and those souls who understand this mystery-secret (that only when Ram=Shiv, then only the true Gita will come forth from the mouth of Ramshivbaba) they will only come in the rosary of 108 souls.
Ram=Shiv??? But how? The great puzzle! You entitle Shiv as 'zero' & Ram as 'one' & you also refer the interplay of numeric 0 & 1 in digital technology to explain the relationship between Shiv & Ram. But at any level of its development, digital technology is not based on the principle of equality 0 & 1. Then why it's necessary to develop the hypothetical theory of Shiv (zero) = Ram (one)?

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 10 Nov 2007

What I find in this intriguing thread is that everyone is correct.

It is said that Raja Yoga is easy. It is that easy.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: Prajapita Brahma is not the peak

Post by new knowledge » 28 Dec 2007

new world wrote:Dear PBK Brothers & Sisters, in Murli it is said 'Saree duniya kay jo bhee manushyamaatra hain unka rachieta Prajapita Brahma hee gaaya jaata hai. Yah chotee nahin hai' (Murli date 2-8-67 P-1) meaning only Prajapita Brahma is revealed as the creator of all the human kind of the whole world. He is not the (highest) peak.
My dear brother shivsena, according to you, Ram (to whom you do not accept as Prajapita Brahma) is the seed of the human world. And this Murli point clearly mentions that Prajapita Brahma is creator of the human world.

Now what is the difference between 'creator of the human world' & 'seed of the human world'?
Is it possible for Prajapita Brahma to creat the human world though he is not believed (by you) to be the seed of the human world?

What do you mean by 'Manushya'? Do you accept that RudraMala beads may be entitled as 'Manushya' even after achievement of their complete incorporeal stage? Or do you consider only corporeal stage of human beings as 'Manushya'?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 30 Dec 2007

Shivsena wrote:... at the right time in 1937 he then gives visions to Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani), to start the Sangamyug; and then enters Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1947 again to narrate the Murlis which give the whole knowledge in code form; this Murlis when read by Ram's soul (NO 1 SOUL) give him a clue to his own part and he starts on his effort to achieve the complete 100% nirakari stage to become like Shiv ...
How can the above be true if all the words spoken through the personality of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit from 1976 are false according to you???

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests