1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU history

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1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU history

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jan 2012

Hi.

an interesting document for you all, I am sure. Received from a more progressive BK supporter ... the 1st November 1938 Om Mandli Report authored by the Bhaibund Committee. There is another report from 1940, and response to "Is this Justice?", we have not seen yet. If anyone can find it, I would very much appreciate reading it.
Om_Mandli_Report_1938.pdf
(1.99 MiB) Downloaded 243 times
Yagya_Story_Summary_Oct_2011.pdf
(132.2 KiB) Downloaded 220 times
Many interesting insights arise from this. Yes, for once and for all Lekhraj Kirpalani age is confirmed as definitely not being 60 but more interestingly for PBKs are revelations of Lekhraj Kirpalani business and spiritual background. It mentions his partner of 20 to 25 years and states Lekhraj Kirpalani paid 10,000 rupees, the equivalent of about £250 Pounds Sterling in 1938 (about £10,000 at today's rate), to learn spiritualism/hypnotism from a Sadhu in Benares. It also documents the life of luxuries and the physical indulgences, and closeness, that Lekhraj Kirpalani and the girls enjoyed.

The BKs have also released their latest 'work in progress' revised history of the their movement, including mention of Piyu Vanis, dated October 2011 below. Your comments are welcome.

There can be no doubt that these changes have only been provoked by the work of members of this forum and others.

The BKWSU in India appears to be sticking to the Adi Dev story as the "official" history although in Australia, and perhaps elsewhere, it has been withdrawn from the general public.
Bhaibund Committee wrote:
His partner who was with him for 20-25 years informs us that at the time of closing his business he spent Rs 10,000/- in Benares to receive training under a Sadhu in spiritualism for a few weeks which in truth is hypnotism. A person who has spent all his life in business, who has neither made any study of Shastras nor has associated with Sadhus and Mahatmas, who has never shown any leanings towards being spiritual, nor has undergone any spiritual exercises - how can he boast of giving salvation to others? His only method of approach is hypnotism, with the aid of which he easily subjugates weak minds and moulds them to his will.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by Roy » 05 Jan 2012

Very interesting... thank you for sharing fluffy Bhai!

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Jan 2012

Yes, I'll be interested to hear what AIVV headquarters think of it or if they have read it before.

It does challenge what Virendra Dev Dixit teaches a little though, e.g. Lekhraj Kirpalani paying a Sadhu to learn spiritualism/hypnotism in Benares.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2012

Because of the obvious and strong partial view, this document cannot be accepted as very credible, but for Brahma baba it has been said that he used to have 12 gurus. Many things seem exagarated in this document and "hypnotism" is one of them.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Jan 2012

What can you accept of it to be true and what do you find difficult?

I think quite to the contrary Sita. I think you're in psychological denial over its contents because they challenge your faith so deeply.

What surprised me is how reasonable, balanced, and lacking in exaggeration it is. What I have found is that the Bhaibund members were much different from how the BKs have presented them.

We all know that the BKWSU version of the history is false and made up. The finger points at Jagdish Chander for doing so and it is obvious that he just borrowed stories from Bhakti to do so. We have no 'evidence' to suggest Lekhraj Kirpalani had 12 gurus at all. And look how many lies they told us about him and the history! I would not be surprised if the "12 Gurus" story was just borrowed from Christianity at a later date ... it is just too convenient.

Personally, I have spoken to elderly Sindis and what they saw, heard and remembered are inline with what is in this document. Especially regarding the nature of the early seances.

You pounce on the word "hypnosis" but the document actually says he learn "spiritualism". Spiritualism, not spirituality ... that is to say "mediumship", which we know to be true. The mediumship of other spirits which is what happens within the BKWSU. (I have no direct experience of the AIVV and so make no comment). It is no big thing. Just a new word for what is going on.

We 'self-hypnotise' our minds into a calm and relaxed state in which we can experience or (some) channel other spirits. That is spiritualism and that is what goes on in the BKWSU (... or so they say).

I don't see "hypnosis" as a negative thing. Much of Brahma Kumarism is self-hypnosis. Many of the techniques they use are almost identical in words to hypnotic techniques. Another word for it is "mesmerism" and I can see parallels between Lekhraj Kirpalani's effect and Mesmer's. It might surprise you to discover it is not so rare.

BKs lead others in hypnotic calming of their minds. The teacher on the guddhi mesmerises them.


It is like detective work now. What one needs to do is accept what is acceptable and remove the easily verifiable facts. Then work backwards until all that is left are the difficult of unverifiable facts. Then balance up the enormity of anomalies.
Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence.
Perhaps what you might find difficult is that, like "Is this Justice?" in some places it exposes Virendra Dev Dixit as being wrong, and not knowing facts. That is something I find hard to understand as well.

Remember, we have moved a long way from believing that Shiva came in 1936 and when "Shivoham, Shivoham" to realising that no one in the Om Mandli/BKs Yagya mentioned any word about Shiva until at least after 1950.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2012

I admit we lack clear, orderly, step by step revelation of what, how and when happened, but how can we have it. We lack the first hand story. If Brahma Baba was there to tell from first hand it would be best, but would we hold this as credible. You must have watched the film "Roshomon". Same story from different angle. One and the same story appers to be different even if we lack some details about it, hidden behind it, we interpet it wrongly, because of this. If we had Brahma baba and the commitee telling the story from their angle, whom would you believe more? We should also take things into context. You say Brahma Baba pretended to be God, so his acting was because of this, but these people, accepting themselves as some legal authority has seen the activities of Om mandli as threat. I simpathise more to the BKs in this story, when it is said that they were lacking any interest, it is seen that they have been involved in these battles against their wish whilst the commitee was full of enthusiasm to put them down, but finally the BKs had won. The BKs may present the story in romantic, but this is like the yellow press. BKs would always be more credible about the story, because they are the real object of it, they would know better. Like anyone who comes in the forum, where knowledge is discussed and challenges that, so what is his intention.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2012

sita wrote:You say Brahma Baba pretended to be God ..
But here is the point, Sita ... I DON'T say Lekhraj Kripalani pretended to be God.

The original document produced by the Yagya with his knowledge and agreement says HE is God, sermoniser of the Gita and so on. Big difference.

This is where you have to be very careful. I am actually very clear and careful about any interpretation I make. However, it is the Yagya's own documents from the 30s and 40s that say this ... not me.
  • Can I ask you, how many of them have you read closely?
sita wrote:BKs would always be more credible about the story, because they are the real object of it, they would know better. Like anyone who comes in the forum, where knowledge is discussed and challenges that, so what is his intention.
You have to be joking ... have you *no* idea how much the BKs have falsified the history and continue to falsify and re-write the history and Murlis? Do I need to give you examples? Why do you think the BKWSU is Australia at least have removed the Adi Dev from sale to the public ... they have officially stated it does not tell a true story.

I would say the current and recent leadership of the BKWSU have had every incentive to falsify the history because it kept them in power, fed, housed and looked after. It is as simple as that. They created a myth and then lived off it believing they would never get caught out.

The BKs who wrote the story were not even in Gyan when it all happened. The BKs who were in Gyan wanted to cover up all the historical and philosophical revision. There was no God Shiva in 1936, Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 in 36, there was no mention of God Shiva until after 1950, Dadi Janki was not part of the original committee, WWII and 1950 were predicted to be the 'End of the World' ... it goes on and on. Puh-lease ...

There are a few other documents or witness statements which I would like to read; one is the legally "authorised" response to Om Radhe's "Is this Justice?", and the other is the week long record of the proceedings in the Sindi Government. I guess in time I may well be able to. I have also spoken to people in the community who were alive at that time and witnessed it and the reports of the early seances where the same as the reports given here.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by sita » 07 Jan 2012

I would say the current and recent leadership of the BKWSU have had every incentive to falsify the history because it kept them in power, fed, housed and looked after. It is as simple as that. They created a myth and then lived off it believing they would never get caught out.
No, come on. They have not done it to keep the seat, and it is not this that has given them power. Through truth or lies, through some effort they have won respect and followers, and through personal charisma. Even if they care for the followers, and whatever they may tell them, they will accept that, they will not be dissilusioned and dissapointed, whatever revalations may come, because they are strong in their commitment.
I have also spoken to people in the community who were alive at that time and witnessed it and the reports of the early seances where the same as the reports given here.
Because either the community has been turned in favor to the commitee, or because generally the BKs are not well accepted and don't have a good name in society. Maybe this is why they do so much PR in tries to change that, but hardly with any success.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2012

I would say the current and recent leadership of the BKWSU have had every incentive to falsify the history because it kept them in power, fed, housed and looked after. It is as simple as that. They created a myth and then lived off it believing they would never get caught out.
sita wrote:No, come on. They have not done it to keep the seat, and it is not this that has given them power. Through truth or lies, through some effort they have won respect and followers, and through personal charisma. Even if they care for the followers, and whatever they may tell them, they will accept that, they will not be dissilusioned and dissapointed, whatever revalations may come, because they are strong in their commitment.
There is evidence to suggest the opposite. They created a myth, and they stood back and allowed a myth to be created around them. However, I agree with you that pretty much whatever they tell adherents, the adherents will believe. Most people are followers, moreso in Asia (India), I would say. In the West, it is causing problems.

I disagree with you that the BK Elite are not thinking of how to protect their largely falsely gained positions. (This is a point roughly inline with Advanced Knowledge). The BK Elite are respected because they have told their followers they are respectable, or at least their second division have told followers that their first division are respectable ... and one day they will take over the family business.

What else would they have done for a living?

Look, the number one value of the Brahma Kumaris (at least in the West) is not "purity" it is 'deception'. Your position in the organization is based on your willingness to accept and repeat that deception, and how good you are at it.

What the BKWSU leadership is in the process of doing, is working out how wallpaper over the cracks, whitewash why it has come about, and sell a new version ... just a few steps off the old one ... with them remaining at the top of the pyramid. When what the BKs should do is knock them off the top and replace them with people of integrity and ethics.

The word "won", or 'won over' in English, interest me because that is really what it is all about ... winning over minds, and the power and territory that those minds control.

The problem is that what you have are layers and layers of onion skins which have been built up over decades but which are largely or entirely false. The individuals who set out to create a religion of falsehoods are in control, and want to remain in control, falsely believing themselves to be superior.

Any rational person would be asking themselves, "How can an Age of Truth be created out of Lies?" and "How can a leadership, whose religion has been founded on lies, assert themselves as the spiritually highest on earth?"
Because either the community has been turned in favor to the commitee, or because generally the BKs ...
... or because they were right. And I think you will find out they very largely were.

The initial reaction against the Om Mandli was not as the BKs try and portray "Because of Purity", it was because of the outrageous claims and behavior of Lekhraj Kirpalani who at the time, from nowhere, was going about claiming to be God, Krishna etc, insulting everyone and ... as documented ... holding wild seances and living a life of luxury with the young women.

Never mind the bus full of kids crashes and amputations.

I am sorry, you are desperately clinging to the BKWSU Bollywood version. When did come into Gyan and how many of the old documents have you actually seen and read?

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by sita » 07 Jan 2012

living a life of luxury with the young women.
You say community has reacted to protect moral, but in the document there are depicted stories of women refusing to submit to their husbands.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by Roy » 08 Jan 2012

Imo, documents like the one you have posted fluffy Bhai, give us an outside view of what was going on in the early days of the Yagya. As to how much of it is accurate or distortion, i am honestly not sure. But it is definately a contrast to the fairy tale like story, Jagdish Chander weaved in his book, Adi Dev. Imo, both contain truth, and both probably contain some distortion too, based on the biases of the people writing them.

I believe that there was much naivety in the early days, and souls got carried away a little with the euphoria of their experiences at this time; which weren't backed up with the fullness of knowledge we enjoy today. Plus, most of the souls who stuck around, are not what you would call true Gyani souls anyway, as they were in love with Brahma Baba, and are what we call, lap born progeny, rather than true mouth born progeny souls, that are born of understanding accurate knowledge.

I personally do not feel there can me any doubt though, that the BK leadership over the years, have chosen to supress, ignore or distort the truth, whenever it has threatened to undermine their positions of power in the Yagya. These souls are like politicians, who are mainly interested in their seat of power... everything else has become very much secondary.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by arjun » 08 Jan 2012

Om Shanti. The only reference about Brahma Baba's visit to Benares in the Murlis is that after having visions he did not understand their meanings. Then he went to Benares where he used to draw pictures on walls on the banks of the Ganges river. The following extracts are from a revised Murli. The original Murli must have also mentioned the name Benares.

"Swayam Bhagwaan kahtey hain jab Bhakti poori ho tab mai aaun. Aadhakalpa Bhaktimarg chaltaa hai, din aur raat. Shuru may bhi pehley-pehley jab praveshataa hui (Maa ke roop may praveshata hoti thi) toh deevaaron par aisey-aisey chakra nikaaltey rahtey thay, jaisey chotey bachhey hotey hain. Samajh may kuch nahee aata tha. Ham tum sab babies thay, fir dheerey-dheerey buddhi may aata gayaa. Abhi tum padhkar hoshiyaar huay ho toh bilkul sahaj reeti samajha saktey ho. Aisey nahee samajhnaa yah bahut puraaney bachhey hain, isliye hamsey hoshiyaar hain. Ham toh itnaa padh nahee sakengey. Baba kahtey hain – pichaadi may aaney vaaley bahut aagey ja saktey hain. Deri say aaney vaaley aur hee din-raat Yoga may mast ho lag padengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.05.07, pg 3)

“God Himself says – I come when Bhakti completes. For half a Kalpa/cycle the path of devotion (i.e. Bhaktimarg) goes on, day and night. Even in the beginning, initially when there was entry (In the beginning entry used to take place in the form of mother), then he used to draw the pictures of World Cycle like this, just as there are small children. (He) Did not understand anything. You and I were all babies; then gradually it went on entering the intellect. Now you have studied and become intelligent. So, you can explain very easily. Do not think that - "These are very old children, that is why they are more intelligent than us. We will not be able to study to that extent." Baba says – Those who come late can gallop ahead (of others). Those who come late would become even more intoxicated in Yoga day and night.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.05.07, pg 3 published by BKs)

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by Roy » 08 Jan 2012

Here is another point about the early days...

“You children have had the divine visions of the heaven as well as the destruction. Baba also renounced only when he had divine visions, but there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now. There is a difference of day and night between the Knowledge (available at that time and available now). First we were in complete night (i.e. darkness of ignorance); we used to give the Knowledge of omnipresence; every human being is Khuda (God) himself. First of all there was this knowledge worth paai -paise (the smallest unit of Indian currency soon after the independence of India); now we feel that it was wrong.” [Mu 12.12.05]

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by dyavu » 08 Jan 2012

Great...Yes, Brahma baba went to Banares and paid Rs.10000 to his guru. It was mentioned by Shewakram in one of his affidivate to court in 1939. Shewakaram knows Dl from more than 20 years. I saw both sides view, OM mandali's as well as Anti Om mandali's in this Rs.10000 matter. Anti Om Mandali claimed that DL paid Rs.10000 to his Guru to learn Black magic but really what happened was one day His guru called DL and said i need Rs.10000 because one of his follower was great loss in business he needed the money. DL immediately arranged RS.10000 and ready to go to Banares ( When his guru called DL was busy in his grandson's function in his House on that day.)his wife and others asked why are leaving the function? DL told " I need to meet my guru". Guru's call is death's call, i need to go."
I think immediately he went to Banares. I do not remember the exact date but it's around 1935-36.

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Re: 1938 Om Mandli Report & BKs latest revision of BKWSU his

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Jan 2012

sita wrote:You say community has reacted to protect moral, but in the document there are depicted stories of women refusing to submit to their husbands.
Yes, very young women ... girls really, often materially spoilt ones (we have the record of one marriage contract stating that the daughter "must always walk on carpets" and have cars and drivers) ... who were being bought with a life of luxury. Who would not want to leave a husband that might demand the woman do some work and live a more frugal existence?

I am thinking that the entirely portrayal of the early days by the BKWSU is false. Even down to the casting of the Bhaibund as the "Anti-Party". For me, the Anti-Party is within the ranks of the BKWSU and runs the show now. The Bhaibund were acting to their best abilities out of genuine and reasonable concern.
Roy wrote:I believe that there was much naivety in the early days, and souls got carried away a little with the euphoria of their experiences at this time... plus, most of the souls who stuck around, are not what you would call true Gyani souls anyway, as they were in love with Brahma Baba, and are what we call, lap born progeny, rather than true mouth born progeny souls, that are born of understanding accurate knowledge.

I personally do not feel there can me any doubt though, that the BK leadership over the years, have chosen to supress, ignore or distort the truth, whenever it has threatened to undermine their positions of power in the Yagya. These souls are like politicians, who are mainly interested in their seat of power... everything else has become very much secondary
This is basically my position too. Of course, it must have been great fun and so exciting. That does not make it moral, worthy or true. It was a full on personality cult based on Lekhraj Kirpalani and his ego. Janki is still going around telling stories, like a teenie bopper who lived with her 'Elvis Presley'.

I'd call it a utterly dependent love too. The women did not grow to become independent. I do not know if you saw it, but in Dr Wendy Sargent's review she says, "in 1960s when they moved to Pandav Bhavan in Mt Abu there were 40 brothers and sisters". BTW, my memory is not that Lekhraj Kirpalani paid off a guru's follower's business debts ... the story they told was that he paid off his 'gambling debts'. I am not 100% sure we can correlate the to incidents as we also have other stories of Lekhraj Kirpalani and the effect of the Sadhu in Benares, some PBKs saying it refers to their Shewakram, the first medium.

What always strikes me is how opposite to the knowledge so much of it is, and how contradictory so much of it is. The BKs teach the only way to purify the soul is remember Shiva and that they put themselves through the rigor of purification before coming out to the world ... and yet there was no mention of an individual Shiva. There is still to mention of the must be momentous time when they decided there was and changed the philosophy.

Elderly Sindis do mention that the BKs were prone to disappearing from public and reinventing themselves and their religion. What on earth really happened during those long periods?

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