History of the term Advance Party

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 13 Oct 2012

एडवांस पार्टी का क्या कार्य चल रहा है? आप लोगों के लिए आज सारी फ़ील्ड तैयार कर रहे हैं। उनके परिवार में जाओ, न जाओ; लेकिन जो स्थापना का कार्य होना है, उसके लिए वह निमित्त बनेंगे। कोई पावरफुल स्टेज लेकर निमित्त बनेंगे। ऐसे पावर्स लेंगे जिससे स्थापना के कार्य में मददगार बनेंगे। आजकल आप देखेंगे दिन-प्रतिदिन न्यू ब्लड का रिगार्ड ज़्यादा है। जितना आगे बढ़ेंगे उतना छोटों की बुद्धि काम करेगी, जो कि बड़ों की नहीं। बड़ी आयु की तुलना में फिर भी छोटेपन में सतोप्रधानता रहती है। कुछ न कुछ प्यूरिटी की पावर होने के कारण उनकी बुद्धि जो काम करेगी वह बड़ों की नहीं करेगी। यह चेन्ज होगी। बड़े भी बच्चों की राय को रिगार्ड देंगे। अब भी जो बड़े हैं वह समझते हैं कि हम तो पुराने ज़माने के हैं, यह आजकल के हैं। उनको रिगार्ड न देंगे और उन्हें बड़ा समझ नहीं चलावेंगे तो काम नहीं चलेगा। पहले बच्चों को रोब से चलाते थे। अभी ऐसे नहीं। ... छोटे ही कमाल कर दिखावेंगे। एडवांस पार्टी का तो अपना कार्य चल रहा है; लेकिन वह भी आपकी स्थिति एडवांस में जाने के लिए रुके हुए हैं। उनका कार्य भी आपके कनेक्शन से चलना है।"[/color] (अ.वा.2.8.73 पृ.151 म, 152 आ.)
"What is the work being done by the Advance Party? They will prepare the field for you all. Whether you go to their family or not, but they will be instrumental for the task of establishment which has to take place. They will become instrumental with a powerful stage. They will gain such powers as to become helpful in the task of establishment. Now a days you see that there's so much respect for the new blood. The more they move forward the intellect of the elders will not work as much as the intellect of the young ones. When compared to the elders there's more purity (satopradhanata) in the childhood. Because of the power of purity their intellect will work more than that of the elders. This change will be noticed. Elders will also give due respect to the advice of the children. Even now, those who are old, think that they belong to the bygone age. These belong to the present generation. If we don't give respect or deal with them as important persons then our work will not proceed. Earlier the children used to be dealt with egoistically. Now it's not so.... The young ones will only do wonders. Advance Party's work is going on but they are also waiting for the advancement of your stage. Their work is also connected with you."


The above Murli point clearly says- the Advance Party is about of those who die and take next birth. Because , their intellect will be pure.

So- what Baba says is- do good effort. Else, be ready to die and go to Advance Party. There is no point in just time passing in braahmin life. And even doing good effort means be in the state of ever ready.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 13 Oct 2012

If you rely on single Murli points then you are liable to extract the wrong meaning...

"Advance Party is doing service by transforming the corporeal body (nar to Narayan in this very birth), but the role of some (souls) continues till the end through the corporeal and also the subtle form. What is your role? Does anyone have a role in the Advance Party? Does anyone have a role of service through the subtle body (Antahvaahak sharir)? Both have different importance (corporeal and subtle bodied souls). It's not a question of first or second. It's the importance of variety role (as both are required). The task of the Advance Party is also not less important. I had told that they are preparing their own plans zestfully. They are well known even there (in Farrukhabad, UP)." [Av 25.01.80]

"Although Mama(Radhe) doesn’t possess a (corporeal) body, she continues to make efforts (through her subtle body). She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the path to the sinful to become pure." [Mu 22.07.72]

"If Mama(Radhe) and Baba(Baba Krishna) enter into someone (in their subtle bodies), then they can sit there itself and study through them." [Mu 27.08.05]

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by jooool » 27 Oct 2012

Just to prove what the Brahma Kumaris are like

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 25 Dec 2012

mbbhat wrote:SM 14-11-78(3):- Yahaan toh amma marey toh bhi halvaa khaavo, beebi marey toh bhi halvaa khaavo. Royenge, peetenge nahin. Drama par mazbooth rahnaa chaahiye. Mama, Baba BHI JAAVENGE, ANANY BACHCHE BHI ADVANCE MAY JAAVENGE. Part toh bajaanaa hee hai. Ismey fikar ki kyaa baath hai? Saakshi hokar hum khel dekhte hain.

= ...Mama, Baba also will go, Anany (usually indicated to the very best) children also will go in advance...
The above Murli point says- the best children will go to Advance Party.

But, according to pbk philosophy, there are devilish children in their Advance Party. And Kdixit left Advance Party for at least 14 years so satisfy selfish desire of the devilish children.

They also believe that the sanskaar of PBKs is more devilish than BKs. More clearly written here- below as
Arjun soul wrote:- 2. The seeds of other religions among PBKs have devilish sanskars, more than the roots of those religions among BKs.
3. The world mother can also get influenced by children when she loses faith on the Father. Leaving the Father fulfils the desires of devilish children.
http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... 130#p44130 -see post on 24th December

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 26 Dec 2012

The monkey army of Ram(ShivBaba) is full of impure vicious souls... the oldest souls in the drama with the greatest karmas. But their speciality is of recognising the Father in his true form; and it these souls Father Shiv has come to give the direct inheritance to, by making them deities in this very birth... nar to Narayan.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 26 Dec 2012

Another logic is (open secret):- Murli point says- the very best children go to Advance Party. Then it is likely sure that- such souls are never going to lose faith , means their path will be in Godly service only - (types of services are as mentioned in the Murli point).

But, in AIVV, some lost faith, became ex PBK, some Vishnu parties, some still went on splitting and splitting and then they still say- (as below)
Roy soul wrote:- the monkey army of Ram(ShivBaba) is full of impure vicious souls... the oldest souls in the drama with the greatest karmas. But their speciality is of recognising the Father in his true form; and it these souls Father Shiv has come to give the direct inheritance to, by making them deities in this very birth... nar to Narayan.
Wonderful, is it not?!

So- PBKs believe even those who have got split form AIVV into other splinter groups also will become direct nar se Narayan?

When their own Jagadamba was out of Yagya for 14 years, is that also part recognizing Father in true form?


Now- what are greatest karma of PBKs in their behad drama (in Confluence Age)? Can anyone explain?

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 26 Dec 2012

So- PBKs believe even those who have got split form AIVV into other splinter groups also will become direct nar se Narayan?
No.
Now- what are greatest karma of PBKs in their behad drama (in Confluence Age)? Can anyone explain?
Already answered by roy Bhai.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 26 Dec 2012

So- from the above, it seems that PBKs believe PBKs are more vicious than BKs.

Now, does it mean when a BK (lesser impure soul) moves from BKWSU to AIVV, he becomes more impure? If so- Is purpose of AIVV is to make one more impure? Terrible is it not?

Great and wonderful philosophy!
Already answered by roy Bhai
I had asked what great karma PBKs do in Confluence Age ? Roy did not reply to that.

Because PBKs believe that- something should have been done in conf Age (unlimited drama) to reflect in limited drama (5000 yrs), is it not? so- i had asked what great wrong karma they have done in Confluence Age to be called as monkeys (or assume any name you like)?
-----
And- whose rank is better in these?

1) BKs not in the group of 2.25 lakh souls

2) Those who have left AIVV and joined Vishnu Party, etc.

And - who are more eligible for heavenly property?

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 26 Dec 2012

So- from the above, it seems that PBKs believe PBKs are more vicious than BKs.

Now, does it mean when a BK (lesser impure soul) moves from BKWSU to AIVV, he becomes more impure? If so- Is purpose of AIVV is to make one more impure? Terrible is it not?

Great and wonderful philosophy!
Again an example of a childish and compulsive response. I had just said that the seeds of other religions among PBKs are more impure than the roots of the same religions among the BKs.

But even if we take mbbhat's defamation to be true, it means that since PBKs are more impure than the BKs, they will become more pure than the BKs in the end. :D
I had asked what great karma PBKs do in Confluence Age ? Roy did not reply to that.
Please get your eyesight checked brother. Roy Bhai has already answered that the greatness of PBKs lies in recognizing the practical part of ShivBaba in this Confluence Age.
And- whose rank is better in these?

1) BKs not in the group of 2.25 lakh souls

2) Those who have left AIVV and joined Vishnu Party, etc.
I cannot say, but I suppose BKs (like Brahma Baba, Mama, etc.) who are not in the group of 2.25 lakh are better than those who joined Vishnu Party.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 27 Dec 2012

A few of points on the monkey army and the recognition of the Father...

"I (Shiv) come (in the form of Father Ram) in a gathering of monkeys(the corporeal Advance Party of impure souls, who recognise the part of Father). I never come in a gathering of deities. Wherever wealth is available, 36 varieties of dishes are available, I never come there (in the form of Father Ram). Where the children do not even get roti, I take them in my lap and make them my (true) children. I do not take rich people(those in Mount Abu) in my lap (after 1969, in the form of Ram)." [Mu 15.08.76]

"Now(from 1976, the beginning of the Purushottam Confluence Age) you (true Brahmin) souls(PBKs or Pandavas), are following the Shrimat of (the true Father) Ram ShivBaba." [Mu 02.03.78]

“Now(from 1976) Ram ShivBaba gives you directions. There is victory in the faith itself.” [Mu 08.12.74]

“If you want to go to the kingdom of Ram, follow the directions of Ram(ShivBaba, from 1976).” [Mu 12.05.77]

“The human beings(BKs) do not know that Ram has come (in the form of Ram ShivBaba, in 1976, the year of Revelation of the Father). He will come in a secret form (be incognito). The Father says, those (BKs) who didn’t recognise in the last cycle, will never recognise.” [Mu 01.02.71]

"Do you think that I do not have any specialty, any virtue? This cannot be possible. The biggest specialty is to become a (true) Brahmin. The biggest specialty is to recognize (the role of) Father (Ram, being played in corporeal form, through Prajapita-Ram)." [Av 26.11.81]

"First of all the main thing is this only... Understand the creator Father (Prajapita-Ram) and then understand the secret of the creation (of the first class child Brahma Baba Krishna, in 1936/7, through the mother and Father, Jagatmata-Gita Mata and Jagatpita-Ram). The main thing is that who is the God of the Gita(Shiv Shankar Bholenath - Brahma Baba Krishna himself, does not become Vishnu at the end, until this point sits firmly in his intellect)? Your victory also lies in this... As soon as one knows the Father(i.e. has complete faith that the part of Father is played through Father Shiv's permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Ram aka Shankar); one becomes entitled to the inheritance (nar to Narayan in this very birth)." [Mu 12.09.05]

"By listening to true Gita(advance knowldge) from the Father(Ram ShivBaba, from 1976) one attains true salvation. So, first of all one should give the introduction of the Father(in his practical corporeal form) to anyone. This is the main issue, but it does not fit into anyone(in the Brahmin family)’s intellect. That is why Baba has got this poster printed that – is the God of Gita the child Krishna(Brahma Baba aka Pitashri - the name placed in front of ShivBaba's in the Murli after Mama's death),or the Supreme Father Supreme Soul(in the body of Shankar - i.e Shiv Shankar Bholenath)?" [Mu 10.10.07]

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 27 Dec 2012

arjun wrote:I had just said that the seeds of other religions among PBKs are more impure than the roots of the same religions among the BKs.
So- does this concept apply only to seed and root souls and not for other souls? So- generally, are majority of pbk souls are more pure than BK souls?
Please get your eyesight checked Brother. Roy Bhai has already answered that the greatness of PBKs lies in recognizing the practical part of ShivBaba in this Confluence Age.
I had asked what great BAD karma they have done in Conf. age? Because Roy soul had wrote as
Roy soul wrote:- the ?monkey army of Ram(ShivBaba) is full of impure vicious souls... the oldest souls in the drama with the greatest karmas. But their speciality is of recognising the Father in his true form; and it these souls Father Shiv has come to give the direct inheritance to, by making them deities in this very birth... nar to Narayan.
Can you see the words- "greatest karma" linked with "oldest souls" and called them as "monkeys?" So- I thought that the karma he mentioned here was about "bad". Of course, we know that due to many births, more impurity will be there in us. So- I had asked (since PBKs believe for every 5000 yrs drama, they should have something done in their behad ka drama of Conf. Age), what great BAD karma they do in Conf. Age?

The word "But" in the next sentence indicates that - in spite of due to great (bad) karma, their speciality is to recognize Father.

And, is it through "karma" one recognizes Father or by "intellect?" [just trying to make clear that the karma in the above sentence is meant for bad karma and not for good]-

Roy soul can say whether he meant it as good or bad.
I cannot say, but I suppose BKs (like Brahma Baba, Mama, etc.) who are not in the group of 2.25 lakh are better than those who joined Vishnu Party.
Here, again it is out of logic (similarities). Means, even if a person becomes ex BK, BKs still believe that they are fortunate than lowkik people who have not taken BK knowledge, since he has at least recognized Father at least once.

Now, according to PBKs, the Vishnu Party souls, or any ex PBK had taken sustenance from direct real Father at least for some period, is it not? Then how can they be lower than the BK souls who have not got taken AK at all? [forget the sustenance].

BKs believe there is a remarkable difference between lowkik scripture and Murli. So- do PBKs feel there is remarkable difference between Murlis and teachings that comes through Dixit?

So- when a lowkik person becomes BK, the level of rise seems to be much more than what rise that can happen when a BK turns to be PBK. If so-

Then what is the real greatness in AK?

So- here, I am just adding to my previous arguments that- When PBKs support their many claims - such as- ShivBaba had said so in Murlis (eg- harsh words for lowkik gurus), hence dixit is also speaking so, BKs explain lowkik scriptures, differently, hence we also interpret Murlis according to our ways, etc, etc, but the main points/theory do not get tally.

Else- how can a person get rise from nearly 0 degrees to 15.75 degrees without taking advance knowledge at all! , that too when Murli says Bhaktimarg is for downfall! [So- when a new BK who is at around 0 level, should degrade further as he follows BK principles, is it not? - Like after beginning to follow scriptures from Copper Age, one begins to degrade from 8 degrees to nearly zero by the end.]

I am not asking to reply. You are free to reply or ignore.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 28 Dec 2012

mbbhat wrote:So- does this concept apply only to seed and root souls and not for other souls? So- generally, are majority of pbk souls are more pure than BK souls?
Not by the end of drama no. The PBK souls start higher, but fall lower. I used to do a bit of diving as a teenager from quite high boards. When i dived from the highest board, i would end up right at the bottom of the 12 foot deep diving pool. When i dived from lower platforms or boards, i did not get so close to the bottom.
mbbhat wrote:I had asked what great BAD karma they have done in Conf. age? Because Roy soul had wrote as
The PBK souls are particularly lustful or viscious, as they spend the most time in male costumes throughout the drama. Lust is the no 1 sin.
mbbhat wrote:Here, again it is out of logic (similarities). Means, even if a person becomes ex BK, BKs still believe that they are fortunate than lowkik people who have not taken BK knowledge, since he has at least recognized Father at least once.
Good point. I think it depends on whom you are comparing with whom. As a generalisation, an ex-PBK who had faith in Virendra Dev Dixit ji as the true alokik Father, but then lost this faith, will probably be higher than the majority of BKs, who never have this faith at all, before the end.
mbbhat wrote:BKs believe there is a remarkable difference between lowkik scripture and Murli. So- do PBKs feel there is remarkable difference between Murlis and teachings that comes through Dixit?So- when a lowkik person becomes BK, the level of rise seems to be much more than what rise that can happen when a BK turns to be PBK. If so-Then what is the real greatness in AK?
There is a powerful difference from my experience... it really is like day and night for me. I felt enlightened by my shallow understanding of the Murli... but when i came across the versions of ShivBaba, in which He unlocks the secrets of these same Murlis, it was/is a wonderful experience... just like walking into sunlight after spending time in moonlight. The moonlight was beautiful and very pleasant, but the sunlight is more wonderful... more vibrant, energising and exciting. This is the greatness of AK as compared to basic knowledge for me. My intellect has been switched on by AK, in a way basic knowledge simply couldn't. I feel even more enlightened and much happier.
mbbhat wrote:how can a person get rise from nearly 0 degrees to 15.75 degrees without taking advance knowledge at all! , that too when Murli says Bhaktimarg is for downfall!
Once an opposing soul like Dadi Prakashmani leaves the body, her bodily ego no longer gets in the way, and her purusharth improves... She becomes co-operative rather than opposing, of Ram ShivBaba.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 28 Dec 2012

So- does this concept apply only to seed and root souls and not for other souls? So- generally, are majority of PBK souls are more pure than BK souls?
Now all BKs and PBKs are effortmakers. In the end PBKs will be purer than the BKs because they are in direct contact with the ever pure Father while the BKs remember either the incorporeal Shiv or the corporeal Brahma and other bodily beings which is the wrong way to remember Him.
I had asked what great BAD karma they have done in Conf. age? Because Roy soul had wrote as
Answered by Roy Bhai.
Can you see the words- "greatest karma" linked with "oldest souls" and called them as "monkeys?"
The karma that Roy Bhai mentioned was karmic accounts (karmabandhan) and not 'highest actions' as you are thinking. In the West karma refers to karmic accounts.
Here, again it is out of logic (similarities). Means, even if a person becomes ex BK, BKs still believe that they are fortunate than lowkik people who have not taken BK knowledge, since he has at least recognized Father at least once.

Now, according to PBKs, the Vishnu Party souls, or any ex PBK had taken sustenance from direct real Father at least for some period, is it not? Then how can they be lower than the BK souls who have not got taken AK at all? [forget the sustenance].
I told you that I don't know and I expressed my personal opinion. And it was based on the fact that although ex-PBKs have recognized the Father once, yet they defame Him more than they cooperate. So, for most part of the Copper Age and Iron Age, they remain away from the Father and hardly enjoy any kingship. But those BKs (not all) who do not defame the Father (mostly from the Chandravanshi group) at least become queens and enjoy comforts of palaces for most part of the Copper Age and Iron Age. But even those ex-PBKs do get returns/fruits for whatever help they have rendered as PBKs in the Confluence Age.
BKs believe there is a remarkable difference between lowkik scripture and Murli. So- do PBKs feel there is remarkable difference between Murlis and teachings that comes through Dixit?
When ShivBaba gives advance knowledge through Shankar, it is such a great knowledge that it tallies not only with the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis but also with the scriptures of the path of Bhakti of every religion and all other kinds of knowledge.
So- when a lowkik person becomes BK, the level of rise seems to be much more than what rise that can happen when a BK turns to be PBK. If so-

Then what is the real greatness in AK?
No. The above statement is completely false. There can be no comparison between the achievements of a soul turning from non-BK to BK and from a BK to PBK. When a non-BK becomes a BK he does not come in direct contact with God. He gets only sustenance of bodily beings whereas when a BK becomes a PBK he gets direct sustenance from God.

The real greatness of becoming a PBK is not the kingship or the worship that they get, but the real greatness lies in becoming the direct child of God. In the Murlis it is said that the real greatness lies in becoming the beads of the rosary of the Father, i.e. becoming serviceable children whom God Himself remembers. And God will remember only those who follow His directions, remember Him as He is and do Godly service. Non-BKs and most BKs do not come in direct contact with God at all.
Else- how can a person get rise from nearly 0 degrees to 15.75 degrees without taking Advanced Knowledge at all!
I have already replied several times that becoming kings in the Golden Age is not a big achievement as the kings and subjects are equally happy and there is no history of Golden Age or Silver Age. Please don't discuss the same topic again and again in different sections of this forum and waste others' energy and time.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 18 Dec 2015

From posts on 30th Sept and 1st Oct 2012 in the same topic- page No. 01:-
Roy wrote:"If Mama and Baba enter into someone (in their subtle bodies), then they can sit there itself and study through them." [Mu 27.08.05]
fluffy bunny wrote:Whether one believes and accepts what the PBKs say or not, one has to respect their dedicated interest in The Knowledge and for raising interesting points like that of Mama entering the body of BK followers to study and do service, etc. Whoever felt that?

I follow the BKs' forum and they don't bring up anything a fraction interesting as all this.
No Murli point says- Mama and Baba enter into someone to study. [Regarding service, it is well known in BKWSU that both the souls are doing great service in unique ways]. It is a great blunder done by PBKs - put here - Error No. 01 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

Most of the Murli points quoted by PBKs, where some feel they have done a great research, are nothing but just PLAIN BLUNDERS. And, PBKs never hesitate to write totally contradictory interpretations within brackets, while translating the Murli points, which convey opposite meanings of what ShivBaba has ACTUALLY said or meant. PBKs CANNOT be blamed, since they DO NOT 'REAL-EYES' their blunders, and fully (confidently, although DELUSIVELY) believe that 'ShivBaba' is now giving them the correct interpretations of the Knowledge already delivered earlier in SMs and AVs, and what the SMs and AVs convey per se are only the basic understanding of the BKs, and not the ACTUAL intention of ShivBaba, who is now giving the advanced clarifications to them, without REAL-EYESing or RE-Cognizing Ravan's or Maya's involvement in this process AT ALL ! Thus, due to this CLEVEREST TRICK of Ravan or Maya, who MASQUERADES as 'ShivBaba' in Confluence Age, and makes them believe that the MISINTERPRETATIONS and MISAPPROPRIATIONS are ACTUALLY the correct advanced clarifications, they get TOTALLY TRAPPED in Ravan's bog of DECEPTION, owing to their BLIND FAITH - as pre-ordained within this eternal world drama to facilitate the determination of the number-wise status of souls!

Anyhow, that is also accurate within drama, hence nothing new at all!

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fluffy bunny
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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Dec 2015

Well, if only the BKWSU would invest a tiny fraction of its multi-millions dollars worth of savings, and 100,000s of followers, into publishing the original, unedited, un-revised Murlis in a single, easily searchable database ... then we could all tell what they really say.

Unfortunately, as they refuse to do so and continue to re-write and re-edit them, we will never know what they originally said.

Who can tell if they did once say that ... or that the BKs just removed it to discredit the PBKs, in the same manner as they removed and confused so many other lines?

Unfortunately, your translations are not trustworthy.

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