"Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jan 2013

Larena wrote:I found this in Calcutta and got the same information from an old Sadhu.
Did you find out any information about the Sadhu that Lekhraj Kirpalani paid a lot of money to in order to learn some kind of hypnotic or psychic art?

I know the PBKs teach that this was the Sevakram character and that the Sevakram character played the part of the "Bengal Sadhu" (approx), however, I disagree with them about this.

I suspect Lekhraj Kirpalani *did* actually go to some sadhu and learn some art or perhaps siddhi and be spiritually opened/developed.

He may well have spoken to his business partner to understand his visions etc later but the court records and other memories about this are too clear and distinct.

Thank you,

Note, the BKs are just as silent about this matter as the PBKs, even though it is there in black and white. It does not suit the BKs "magical" fairy story either but I think if we can find out just who this other sadhu was and what he taught for so much money then we will start to learn much more about Lekhraj Kirpalani and the spirits he became involved with.

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 05 Jan 2013

I did not find anything about Bengalu Sadhu or Guru. The only information I got was an article in Hindi from a PBK student. It was an interview with someone who was in the Anti Party at that time and after years he became a BK. He made a kind of confession. In his recollection he said that together with Dada Lekhraj there was one who they feared a lot. He called that person "Bengali Guru" in that interview. If you are interested in this I could try go find out that article.

Mr Virendra Dev Dixit teaches details from the early history of the Yagya. There are classes which virtually tells you what who tell whom in what time. Acc to his teaching Sevakram, a business partner of Dada, was to be the Bengali Guru, he had two wifes - and official one - Dada Lekhraj's elder sister and another one, unofficial - the previous incarnation of Mrs Kamla DD. A very complicated story tells us that Dada had visions , he was afraid of speaking directly to Sevakram, he told his sisterabout this , that sister told that second wife the same, she told Sevakram, Sevakram explained to her, she to Lekhraj's sister and the sister to Lekhraj. He describes this as a long chain of transmitters.

I found Mrs Virendra Dev Dixit explanations not reliable and changing all the time depending on circumstances. He taught that Dada and Sevakram were business partners. When the first book of Om Radhe came to the light, that book Is this Truth, the name of Sevakram appeared as a name in the Anti Party. Then questions arosed and people asked Mrs Virendra Dev Dixit. He started to explain that Sevakram - Prajapita had to be on the opposite site, he had to be one of them to play a part of an enemy, because this is his role. There were classes which explained in details that that Sevakram from the Anti Party was the true Sevakram - Prajapita. But it also worthy saying that Mrs Virendra Dev Dixit at that time had never read what Om Radhe wrote. He did not understand English, he hardly read English letters. He knew only as much as students told him. Nobody translated to him the entire texts, he did not know the entire context. And I dare to say that he did not read the Anti Party response. Maybe I am wrong, this is only my assumption.

There are thousands classes and thousands discussions. People stop making sense of them,, because hardly anybody is able to listen to all of them. I was a student for 5 years - I dedicated myself so much that I listened to few classes a day - so I could learn and take notes and classify all classes and discussions sinces the beginning till 2010. Absolutely each and everyone. I tracked all changes in explanations, all mis-predictions, all revisions of texts in AIVV official books they made. This is the price I paid.

There were many changes in dates, many predictions which turned out false, many explanations which were change just like this due to circumstances. And till thi end of my life I will raise the same question "Does God do like this indeed?"

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by arjun » 05 Jan 2013

larena wrote:I did not find anything about Bengalu Sadhu or Guru. The only information I got was an article in Hindi from a PBK student. It was an interview with someone who was in the Anti Party at that time and after years he became a BK.
That was me. But you will never admit because you want to hide your identity while attacking AIVV. Anyway, that's your choice.
Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit teaches details from the early history of the Yagya.
Based on what he gathered from Murlis, Avyakt Vanis and BK literature.
There are thousands classes and thousands discussions. People stop making sense of them,, because hardly anybody is able to listen to all of them. I was a student for 5 years - I dedicated myself so much that I listened to few classes a day - so I could learn and take notes and classify all classes and discussions sinces the beginning till 2010. Absolutely each and everyone. I tracked all changes in explanations, all mis-predictions, all revisions of texts in AIVV official books they made. This is the price I paid.
You studied and left, but we continue to study and bring to the notice of the world the texts of each and every discussion CD to the extent possible. You were probably in a hurry to get the entire knowledge in one day or may be something else. But we are in no hurry. ShivBaba will continue to give knowledge till the end of the Confluence Age. And we will continue to present it on this forum. There is nothing to hide.
There were many changes in dates, many predictions which turned out false, many explanations which were change just like this due to circumstances. And till thi end of my life I will raise the same question "Does God do like this indeed?"
You do your job, we will do as directed by God.

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 05 Jan 2013

arjun wrote: That was me. But you will never admit because you want to hide your identity while attacking AIVV. Anyway, that's your choice.
OK, thanks. Now I know who you are.

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 06 Jan 2013

You do your job, we will do as directed by God.
I understand that is God who directed all this:

1. Sevakram was Dada's business partner and was his shop manager.
2. Dada's sister was one of his wife (Sevakram had two wives).
3. Sevakram was a teacher in the Yagya at the beginning.
4. Sevakram was a memember of the Anti Party at the same time.

And all this above compared with facts from the literature from the beginning of the Yagya: Dada's sister was not the wife of Sevakram and Sevakram - Dada's partner - left him much earlier, there is no Sevakram name in the list of Om Mandali members.

I would add to this list more:

5. AIVV teaches that Om Radhe was a 14 year old girl in 1938. Please, check her date of birth and explain to us what was the basis of the claim that she was 14?

Please, go back to the topic - where is the truth?

You call logical thinking "studying in a hurry" or "maybe something else". --- What do you mean by this?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Jan 2013

Let's face it, the entire premise for this part of the Advance Knowledge appears to be a children's comic produced by the BKWSU ... which is probably not the best foundation for a religion.

Larena is correct, historically there is a big mess and it is largely all wrong and, surely, one should expect a god Father to know or get it right?

I do not know the current state of art as far as Virendra Dev Dixit's and the PBKs understanding of the events in question but I am a little disappointed by the response.

It appears the PBKs are pretty much the same as the BKs in this matter, accept the controversies and anomalies, and interpret Virendra Dev Dixit's position in some mystical manner. Or, alternatively, Virendra Dev Dixit is a mystical teacher teaching in a mystical manner ... and knowingly, deliberately, saying nothing.

Of course, what he might be teaching might not be what everyone thinks it is.

Part of it might be, "to not be reliant on other people for what you think".

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3219
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by mbbhat » 06 Jan 2013

Good discussions.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2013

The matter about partner is mentioned in the Murli, living for 10 years. The matter about second wife comes since Calcutta is mentioned to be like brothel in the Murli.

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 06 Jan 2013

sita wrote:The matter about partner is mentioned in the Murli, living for 10 years. The matter about second wife comes since Calcutta is mentioned to be like brothel in the Murli.
SIta, we are not questioning what was mentioned in Murlis. We are discussing facts that Dada's sister wasn't Sevakram's wife (something different from what is taught by Mr Virendra Dev Dixit) and that Dada's partner Sevakram left him long before the Yagya started and that the period mentioned in Murlis - 10 years and the period in historical sources don't match.

We know what Murli mentioned. Some information in Murlis are so general that you can apply them to whatever you want in whatever way you like and you will get a satisfactory result. The information from Murlis that Calcutta was like a brothel doesn't have to mean that Sevakram had two wifes. In brothel it is a woman who has many "husbands" (partners). The system in which a man has many wives is called polygyny and a man is called polygamist.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2013

I am not sure if the idea of second wife is connected with the Calcutta mention as brothel, but i feel it is essential to trace the origin and development of each idea, because there may be ideas in the advanced knowledge, that does not come from the Murli and are mixtures, although they may be popular or accepted. For eg., i don't remember the name Sevakram being mentioned by Baba in VCD or discussion. He says bhagidar.

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 06 Jan 2013

sita wrote:Im not sure if the idea of second wife is connected with the Calcutta mention as brothel, but i feel it is essecial to trace the genesis and development of each idea, because there may be ideas in the advanced knowledge, that does not come from the Murli and are mixtures, although they may be popular or accepted. For eg., i do not remember the name Sevakram being mentioned by Baba in VCD* or discussion. He says bhagidar.

He defenetely mentions the name Sevakram. Many times in Murlis and discussions which I listened to.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2013

Then who is the partner?

Larena
Posts: 72
Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Revealing and sharing personal experience.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by Larena » 06 Jan 2013

sita wrote:Then who is the partner?

Acc to AIVV the partner is the manager of the jewellery shop of Dada Lekhraj in Calcutta. His name was Sevakram. He was the husband of Dada's elder sister, he together with his wife brought up the daughter of Dada - Nirmalshanta Dadi, he had two wives, he was the main teacher at the beginning of the Yagya and he was a member of the Anti Party.

All this was deducted from Murlis and Avyakt Vanis and BK literature and there is no fault in what was deducted. :-?

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by sita » 06 Jan 2013

If he is not the partner, someone must be the partner.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: "Om Mandli", a true and authenticated story 1940

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2013

sita wrote:If he is not the partner, someone must be the partner.
It must be so. There is clear evidence now that he was not.

I don't know who are the driving forces within the PBK group ... but it is time for the PBKs to revise their understanding, withdraw and remove certain teachings, and make sure all PBKs know this.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests