Sevakram name in PBK literature

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Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 22 Jan 2013

Some time ago Arjun asked me to prove that the name Sevakram was used in the official literature in AIVV. He had doubts that I gave true info about this in this forum.

This is the evidence:

Book: The Trimurti - the advanced knowledge

Chapter:
The place of the subtle birth

Baba has said in the Murlis that the rehearsals of the drama, which takes place in the path of the religious devotion, take place in the Confluence Age. The establishment of the Somnath Temple through King Vikramaditiya takes place in the path of the religious devotion, in the beginning of the Copper Age. The soul of King Vikramaditiya – Brahma makes its does the rehearsal of this [scene] – (the clause between two –dashes- is meant to be independent grammatically. It is used to add some information to the main sentence.) shooting in the Confluence Age (“The soul of King Vikramaditiya shooting in the Confluence Age” does not make sense). In the life of Brahma Baba one beautiful centre of service (of the Copper Age shooting) was opened by him from with the money of the Yagya. It was the service centre of Ahamdabad, – the Paldi Service Center, the memorial of ‘He Prabhu pār karo’ , located in the Prabhu Park. It is proved to be the Somnath Temple on the shore of the ocean in the path of the religious devotion. The Ocean of Knowledge was Madhuban (Mount Abu) and its shore was the mentioned Paldi Service Center of Ahamdabad – the closest service centre. Baba has said in Murlis “They must receive some reward from the one for whom they build a temple.” Similarly here, Baba built the service centre in the form of the Somnath Temple, so definitely he must have received many rewards from the mentioned person Somnath. It was said in the Avyakt Vani of 4.03.75 in the end of page 2: “The name Somnath has been given, because He gives the nectar (somras) to drink, He gives the wealth of knowledge, doesn’t He? Then, when they become worshippers, they spent so much to build His temple, because He has given the nectar, hasn’t He? Somnathini will be along with Somnath.” In the beginning of the Yagya Brahma received the responsibility of the entire Yagya (the kingdom) from his partner Sevakram (Somnath). Baba said in the Murli dated 25.04.90: “How will work be carried on without Alaf? One Alaf is unknown. The others are points. There is a benefit from putting a point along with Alaf.” Alaf and Be were mentioned in Murlis many times. Then who is Alaf? And who is Be?


Apart from this, the name Sevakram was mentioned in those pieces of AIVV literature which I listed in the topic Om Mandali -True and authentic...

All the literature in AIVV is being verified and approved by Baba himself. So how can we speak of mistakes, slipes of tongue and so on?

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 22 Jan 2013

Larena wrote:All the literature in AIVV is being verified and approved by Baba himself. So how can we speak of mistakes, slipes of tongue and so on?
When human being are involved in anything, there will be mistakes from time to time. If we look for mistakes at the expense of the majority of the knowledge, we will soon find ourselves becoming negative, and eventually lose faith. I believe i have found mistakes in the AIVV literature too; but this doesn't make me doubt Father Shiv and go looking for more mistakes. If all the knowledge made no sense, i too would be questioning the validity of the AIVV... but the mistakes such as they are, are imo, tiny in comparison to what is going on around them... If you look for absolute perfection you won't find it; and when you do at the end, when Shiv Shankar Bholenath is revealed to us; it will be a bit too late.

I am not saying these things shouldn't be pointed out, and questions asked; i have done the same thing myself... but i am of the belief, that if you have patience and keep studying; the answers more often than not, come in front of you when you're not expecting them. Although this study is about knowledge, our faith will also be tested along the way... If some mistakes appear from time to time, and this throws us off the path... then this may say more about us, than it does about the knowledge.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 23 Jan 2013

Good going.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2013

larena wrote:Some time ago Arjun asked me to prove that the name Sevakram was used in the official literature in AIVV. He had doubts that I gave true info about this in this forum.
This is the evidence:
larena, you might have produced evidence just to prove your point, but as roy Bhai has pointed out, if the word Sevakram has appeared once in hundreds of pages, then it should be treated as an inadvertent mistake and not a deliberate attempt. I have already told you that although ShivBaba does not use the word Sevakram, but most PBKs use this word again and again because BKWSU has published the name of Brahma Baba's partner as Sevakram and it has become a part of their sub-conscious and if hundreds of students are using this word in their conversation with the teacher, then I think if the teacher uses this word once in a year inadvertently, then it should not be treated as an unpardonable mistake as you are trying to present it. You should understand that after all three souls are working through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 23 Jan 2013

larena, you might have produced evidence just to prove your point,
This is what people may expect from AIVV. If you provide the evidence which might show AIVV in a bad light, you might have produced it.
but most PBKs use this word again and again because BKWSU has published the name of Brahma Baba's partner as Sevakram and it has become a part of their sub-conscious and if hundreds of students are using this word in their conversation with the teacher, then I think if the teacher uses this word once in a year inadvertently,
Please listen to Murlis clarifications dedicated only to the Trimurti. They are classes in the form of monologue not discussions. The teacher uses the name "Sevakram", and descriptions like --- "the husband of Dada's elder sister". If this is an inadvertent usage, then I should take the entire explanation as accidental, not reliable.

Don't accuse me of producing false evidence. Go and check in the Hindi book (attached) - received from the Head Office. I can also scan the original book which I bought. Will you keep accusing me of lies?
Attachments
Trimurty Adv total.pdf
(347.04 KiB) Downloaded 182 times

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2013

Don't accuse me of producing false evidence.
I never said that. It is your assumption.
I just said that using that name just once in many months does not make someone a demon as you are trying to project him to be. I have also given the reason why that name became popular as it was widely circulated by BKWSU. Well, if you still want to defame AIVV for the rare use of the word Sevakram you are free to do so.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 23 Jan 2013

As usual, PBKs call showing evidence as defamation. When someone shows contradictions, inconsistencies in their theory, he defames. What a logic! Now, when a huge amount of facts show that the "Sevakram theory built and spread by AIVV" is not consistent, AIVV tries to diminish the importance of the name Sevakram (by saying: "it was only used a few times").

I can only expect that in the near future AIVV will remove the name completely from all their books and Murlis and will say that the name Sevakram did not mean Sevakram, who was supposed to be the husband of Dada's sister, but it was an unlimited meaning of something else!

Look how inconsitent you are -
you wrote: "larena, you might have produced evidence just to prove your point", -
and after you write a response to my reaction -
(Larena: "Don't accuse me of producing false evidence.") -
Arjun: "I never said that. It is your assumption."

Come on, if the first is not an accusation of producing false evidence, than what is it?

You asked me to show you a proof that AIVV used the name Sevakram in their publication. I gave it to you. Now, you don't respond any more to the questions discussed earlier concerning the usage of the name Sevakram, but you focus on the point that I defame AIVV. What a logic! Can you not simply admit that AIVV made serious mistakes and misinformed students?

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 23 Jan 2013

Dear Larena, i feel you may be making a wrong assumption that Father Shiv Himself oversees all of these matters; i don't believe He does... or if He does, He knows what to correct and not to, at any given time. He has said in the Murli, that if there are any mistakes due to the Chariot, He will make them right. I suspect Virendra Dev Dixit ji doesn't know the accurate historical facts of the beginning, any more than we do... he also waits for the complete evidence to surface. If the name Sevak Ram is being used, it is because this is the name everyone has become familiar with, and associates with the role of Prajapita at the beginning of the Yagya. It appears that you expect everything to be wrapped up nice and perfectly, and laid at your feet; but it doesn't work like that. These things will come to be known at the correct time in the drama; and so we have to wait for the results of the researchers' evidence(or do some ourselves if we are able), and/or the confessions of some old BKs, who were there and know what happened. It may turn out that the name wasn't Sevak Ram after all... but that doesn't make Father Shiv's teachings through Virendra Dev Dixit ji, about Prajapita clarifying the visions of Dada Lekhraj, untrue... it just means we haven't yet found the true name and details, of Prajapita at this time.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jan 2013

This raise one of issues involved in the revision of information ... how does one do it?

Firstly, there is a fault on behalf of the leaders of both the BKs and PBKs of not keeping proper records and admitting up to failures etc, then there is the problem of the followers' faith and refusal to develop. Lastly, there is a lack of accuracy in the use of language that one might expect of a "university" or someone claiming to speak for or as God.

OK, it is clear that Virendra Dev Dixit has used the name. It should be "the person we are refering to at present as Shevakram", "code name: Shevakram" or "the partner" ... but how does Virendra Dev Dixit, or even the BKWSU for that matter, change all their references and get their followers to follow?

The BKWSU uses the Murli noticeboard to circulate new information, how does the AIVV circulate official corrections?

I believe that there is sufficient evidence now to 'officially' remove the name Sevakram/Shewakram or to correct it ... when will it happen?

Should Virendra Dev Dixit and the BKWSU not also publish official apologies when false predictions and information are circulated?

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 24 Jan 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:OK, it is clear that Virendra Dev Dixit has used the name. It should be "the person we are refering to at present as Shevakram", "code name: Shevakram" or "the partner" ... but how does Virendra Dev Dixit, or even the BKWSU for that matter, change all their references and get their followers to follow?
I know the AIVV literature is updated on the official site from time to time; and the rest probably comes through the discussion classes. But Arjun Bhai will have the accurate details about this.
fluffy bunny wrote:I believe that there is sufficient evidence now to 'officially' remove the name Sevakram/Shewakram or to correct it ... when will it happen?

Is this the consensus?... I believe we have ruled out 2 Sevak Rams now haven't we? Could there still be a third, or is this unlikely?
fluffy bunny wrote:Should Virendra Dev Dixit and the BKWSU not also publish official apologies when false predictions and information are circulated?
Putting the BKWSU aside for the moment; i am not aware of any false predictions made by the AIVV... As i have said before about this topic; any so called predictions are comments about things that will be a happening on a subtle level, within the minds of the main actors or children, as was the case in 1976; which referred to subtle changes in both Bharat Pita(Virendra Dev Dixit ji) and Bhart Mata(Vedanti behn ji). There was of course no practical destruction in 1976, which would have totally contradicted the points about the Confluence Age lasting for 100 years. This is all a puzzle, which before 1976, we had no idea of the answers. As for the BKSWU, there will of course be no apologies.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 24 Jan 2013

if the word Sevakram has appeared once in hundreds of pages, then it should be treated as an inadvertent mistake and not a deliberate attempt.
"Sevakram" cannot be treated as an inadvertent mistake. The case of Sevakram is the pillar of the whole Trimurti clarification and the pillar of the entire AIVV theory. The class of the Trimurti is the gateway to the Advance Gyan --- you are not allowed to get any more Gyan unless you accept the entire Trimurti class and sign the letter of faith.

I signed the letter after accepting the Trimurti class containing the info: "the name Sevakram, who was the business partner of Dada (he was a manager in Dada's shop) and the husband of Dada's sister".
What is the value of that information today? Do I defame AIVV? Or does AIVV defame themselves?

I think that they deceived people.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jan 2013

arjun wrote:larena, you might have produced evidence just to prove your point, but as roy Bhai has pointed out, if the word Sevakram has appeared once in hundreds of pages, then it should be treated as an inadvertent mistake and not a deliberate attempt. I have already told you that although ShivBaba does not use the word Sevakram, but most PBKs use this word again and again because BKWSU has published the name of Brahma Baba's partner as Sevakram and it has become a part of their sub-conscious and if hundreds of students are using this word in their conversation with the teacher, then I think if the teacher uses this word once in a year inadvertently, then it should not be treated as an unpardonable mistake as you are trying to present it. You should understand that after all three souls are working through the body of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit.
So- what does AIVV/Chariot say now? Should the word Sevakram be removed?

And- if PBKs use this word again and again (just due to the reason that BKWSU has put that word in its literature), who had pointed it first? the Chariot or anyone else? [Also- so- can we say PBKs have tendency to adopt/use blindly what BKWSU does/has?]

And, PBKs say that their Father is strict. So- how can children use that word without permission from dixit? And, they believe srimath is at the organization level and dharna is at the individual level. so- if PBKs use this word without getting ceritifed from their Father, is this not violation of srimath?

Also- if Arjun soul believes that the teacher might have done inadvertent mistake by saying the word Sevakram once in a year, but Mr. dixit would be hearing those words from his children/PBKs many times during the conversation. So- is it not his responsibility to tell them- "Do not use that word", or "It is not Sevakram, we do not know his real name, etc"- that too being strict?!

But, PBKs believe soul of Dixit keeps quiet during giving clarifications.They believe it is Brahma Baba who reads and soul of shiv who clarifies through body of dixit. So- then according to pbk philosophy, the mistake should be from Shiv himself is it not? Or, do they say- while giving clarification of Murlis , soul of dixit remains quiet , but while during other discussions with PBKs, he also speaks? [If so- then during other discussions, do all the three souls have tendency/freedom to speak?]

Still - PBKs have no hesitation to say- "Oh, yes, it could be Brahma Baba who used the word Sevakram" and put all blames on him. - But, in this case, it is not likely to fit, since Mr. Dixit or ShivBaba through Dixit would be listening many times that word from their children/PBKs. So- it becomes responsibility of the Chariot to correct the children then and there itself, is it not?

And- PBKs usually claim/say that they are able to point mistakes in Sakar Murlis . For example, they say - such and such point is said by childish intellect BBaba, and such and such point is said by ShivBaba, etc.

So- if the above word is said by Brahma Baba, did it take so much time for PBKs to realize this? and, if BBaba is still misusing body/mouth of dixit, then how can PBKs get right knowledge? Is this (mixture) what they have got even after getting ADVANCED knowledge?

And, if that word is used by childish intellect brahma Baba, why does he use it just once a year? Since the intellect is childish, he should have done it more number of times, is it not?

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 25 Jan 2013

Roy soul wrote:- Dear Larena, i feel you may be making a wrong assumption that Father Shiv Himself oversees all of these matters; i don't believe He does... or if He does, He knows what to correct and not to, at any given time. He has said in the Murli, that if there are any mistakes due to the Chariot, He will make them right.
But, then PBKs keep on accusing Brahma Baba for something said in Murlis. And also they claim that they know meaning of every Murli point. They also say- how can god speak dual? It should be true. It should have unlimited sense, blah, blah, blah.

So- when the ball lies in their court, they can defend in any way. Double standards! Good.
I suspect Veerendra Dev Dixit ji doesn't know the accurate historical facts of the beginning, any more than we do... he also waits for the complete evidence to surface.
Great - the so called head of gyaani tu atmas!
If the name Sevak Ram is being used, it is because this is the name everyone has become familiar with, and associates with the role of Prajapita at the beginning of the Yagya.
Who gave importance to that word first? Is not Mr. dixit or ShivBaba of PBKs through dixit? In BKWSU this word is not used much.

Even though i had read that book- mulaanche Baba, i had not noticed that word. I came to know that word only after the pbk showed me that page- "see (in Bk literature) the word Sevakram is there"
It appears that you expect everything to be wrapped up nice and perfectly, and laid at your feet; but it doesn't work like that. These things will come to be known at the correct time in the drama; and so we have to wait for the results of the researchers' evidence(or do some ourselves if we are able), and/or the confessions of some old BKs, who were there and know what happened.
So- PBKs also are expected to do research to find these facts. Their god Father is not going to disclose these details! And, they depend on others even kouravas/BKs, while God Father being with them for all these years!
It may turn out that the name wasn't Sevak Ram after all... but that doesn't make Father Shiv's teachings through Veerendra Dev Dixit ji, about Prajapita clarifying the visions of Dada Lekhraj, untrue... it just means we haven't yet found the true name and details, of Prajapita at this time
Good. So- finally they are ready to take U turn at least in some issues/matters.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 25 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:So- PBKs also are expected to do research to find these facts. Their god Father is not going to disclose these details! And, they depend on others even kouravas/BKs, while God Father being with them for all these years!
Yes, and won't it be powerful when the final truth is uncovered, with actual proof.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:Double standards! Good.
Mbbhat, saying "Good" everytime after you have made an insulted someone makes you look like a real dickhead. Good.

You got your answer. It was reasonable enough. We don't know the context for any such conversation, e.g. did he say "Sevakram" or did he say, "this Sevakram which you have mentioned". The name came for a kids comic the BKs produced and the research is still ongoing.

Of course, if the BKWSU really wanted the truth to be know, they could do so at the snap of a finger ... but they don't, they hold the truth back and spread lies instead, so it take longer for we that actually do the work than you who just insults.


Meanwhile, I just noticed that the in Brahma Kumaris official Youth Newsletter, the BKWSU have published the same old lies about Lekhraj Kirpalani being 60 years in 1936 and God descending down into him and so on.

Now the BKs *know* that is a lie. They *know* is it not true ... they know Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 years old. Is it not a greater crime for them to indocrinate children into falsehoods being such a large, official and well funded organization ... how long will it take them to start telling the truth? By comparison, the AIVV is just a cornershop run by amateurs with no funding.

And how long with it take to unpick the BK lies from all the minds they have filled with them?
  • We say, "People in glass house should not throw stones" (meaning you should not criticize other people for bad qualities in their character that you have yourself) or, from the Bible, "Hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

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