The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 06 Jan 2007

howiemac wrote:Great post sparkal. Inspired by Thursday's full moon perhaps? Your symbolism fits: Shiva as Sun / Father, Brahma as Moon / mother. But how (if at all) does this relate to the Sun dynasty and the Moon dynasty?
Interesting question. If God Shiv were to be the Sun, then He does not come in the Golden Age which is believed to be the Age of the Sun Dynasty. Dynasty begins with a corporeal person and not an incorporeal being.

As per the Advance knowledge given by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) to the PBKs, the Sun corresponds to the Father's role of Shiv being played through Shankar (or Prajapita) and the Moon corresponds to the Mother's role that was played by Shiv through Brahma (Dada Lekhraj). And all His spiritual children are the stars. God Shiv could be compared to the immeasurable Ocean.

Many kinds of worms and insects also get sustenance in the moonlight, whereas they either struggle for life or die in the Sun light.

The above sentence should not be construed to mean that all BKs are bad. What Baba means to say is that due to the gentle motherly nature of Brahma Baba, he could not control the devilish elements within the Brahmin family (especially after the demise of Mama in 1965), who ultimately became a reason for his demise due to heart attack in 1969.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
sparkal
BK supporter
Posts: 462
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK supporter
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: BK supporter
Location: Shivalaya

Post by sparkal » 06 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:Many kinds of worms and insects also get sustenance in the moonlight, whereas they either struggle for life or die in the Sun light.

The above sentence should not be construed to mean that all BKs are bad. What Baba means to say is that due to the gentle motherly nature of Brahma Baba, he could not control the devilish elements within the Brahmin family (especially after the demise of Mama in 1965), who ultimately became a reason for his demise due to heart attack in 1969.
Are you saying that when Mama departed that this caused stress on Brahma Baba in some way? Or that Mama caused stress to Brahma while in a body and gave him a heart attack :D ?

The game is not over, I try to keep an open mind on everything, including rotation of beads/ souls, including Shiva taking birth in the Golden Age. We have yet to understand rosaries and their practical purpose. I am not presenting this as a point, merely using it to show how far we can churn, without fixed belief of course. I was not brought up on Hinduism from my parents, so there is not the need to distance myself from such churning as those from the Hindu tradition. Yet it does not rule out Hindu knowledge emerging from past life recordings. In the same way, hatha Yoga was rejected in an absolute kind of way. Extreme knee jerk measures in the quest to become soul conscious. The basic technique has always been based on stepping away from that which I have been, that which is there already in the hope of uncovering the pure personality which lies beneath the leaves.

We detach from everything, let it all go, then take back the aspects which bring us benefit. Some of the things in religious folklore which have been flamed may turn out to have substance, even if misunderstood by Hindus and BKs at present. We may well be looking at a longer or more absolute cycle yet, of which, the said 5000 your cycle is part of. Cycles within cycles. That is a throw away churning and not "the truth" and one which most will have at some point or other.

The premise is that it is not relevant to being soul conscious and remembering *. Religious scriptures are memorials. Sun / moon dynasty? What do they symbolise? Will think.

Peace

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 06 Jan 2007

sparkal wrote:Are you saying that when Mama departed that this caused stress on Brahma Baba in some way? Or that Mama caused stress to Brahma while in a body and gave him a heart attack ?
No. Mama did not cause any stress to Brahma Baba. In fact it was she, who used to manage most of the problems while she was alive. But after her demise, the devilish elements within the Brahmin family strarted disobeying Brahma Baba and through their violations of Shrimat, they started hurting Brahma Baba from within, which finally ended with the heart attack that he suffered a couple of days after the registration of World Renewal Trust at Bombay, which was not done completely as per his wishes.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:Mama did not cause any stress to Brahma Baba. In fact it was she, who used to manage most of the problems while she was alive. But after her demise, the devilish elements within the Brahmin family strarted disobeying Brahma Baba and through their violations of Shrimat, they started hurting Brahma Baba from within, which finally ended with the heart attack that he suffered a couple of days after the registration of World Renewal Trust at Bombay, which was not done completely as per his wishes.
Could we please have more details about this important chapter in the Yagya's history?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 07 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:Could we please have more details about this important chapter in the Yagya's history?
Om Shanti. Whatever knowledge I have of this chapter is from the clarification Murlis that have been narrated by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) and a few supporting evidences.

It has been told to the PBKs that after the death of Mama, some Brahmin children started disobeying the Shrimat given by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba. For example Baba said in the Murlis that voluminous literature is of no use, but the BKs (led by Late BK Jagdish Bhai) started preparing voluminous books. Baba said in the Murlis that a few important pictures like Trimurti, Cycle, Lakshmi-Narayan, Tree and Ladder were enough to explain the knowledge, but the BKs started preparing numerous pictures. Although this used to cause sorrow to Brahma Baba, he used to keep it all to himself, and giving just love and affection to the Brahmin children like a mother. But finally, when the BK family was to be got registered (under Government pressure I suppose) as a Trust, ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) suggested some names of BKs as the Trustees. The Trust was to be registered in Bombay. But the Brahmin children who were given the charge of getting the BKs registered as a Trust got it registered with a revised list of trustees. This was done in the early days of January, 1969. When this news reached Brahma Baba he was too shocked or sorrowful to bear the same. He died of a heart attack within a couple of days on 18th January, 1969.

I had seen a copy of the deed of registration of World Renewal Trust. And I think we also have a copy of the bulletin that was published in some BK literature in 1969 that said that Brahma Baba died of heart attack.

More investigation may reveal more facts related to the case. It is another matter that BKs may dismiss this story as a work of imagination.

It is pertinent to note that in many Murlis ShivBaba has condemned the Government of India as a Bhrashtachari Government. It has also been clearly directed in the Murlis that the BK family should not be registered with such a corrupt Government. So, it really needs to be ascertained that what circumstances or which people forced Brahma Baba (the corporeal medium of ShivBaba at that time) to take the step of getting the BK family registered as a society or Trust???????

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:I had seen a copy of the deed of registration of World Renewal Trust. And I think we also have a copy of the bulletin that was published in some BK literature in 1969 that said that Brahma Baba died of heart attack.

More investigation may reveal more facts related to the case. It is another matter that BKs may dismiss this story as a work of imagination ...

It has also been clearly directed in the Murlis that the BK family should not be registered with such a corrupt Government. So, it really needs to be ascertained that what circumstances or which people forced Brahma Baba (the corporeal medium of ShivBaba at that time) to take the step of getting the BK family registered as a society or Trust
I very much agree. This must cut to the very essence of the divergence between the current regime.

It would be good if a copy of the original trust document be scanned and shared with us all and those other references.
  • • Is it true that some of the trustees were Brothers or that a brother was key against the guidance that it was and should be sisters?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 07 Jan 2007

It is pertinent to note that in many Murlis ShivBaba has condemned the Government of India as a Bhrashtachari Government. It has also been clearly directed in the Murlis that the BK family should not be registered with such a corrupt Government. So, it really needs to be ascertained that what circumstances or which people forced Brahma Baba (the corporeal medium of ShivBaba at that time) to take the step of getting the BK family registered as a society or Trust???????
Proofs from Murlis in support of the above statement:

“ShivBaba says, ‘What will I do? He says for Brahma Baba also, “What will he do? Whatever he possessed was given by him to ShivBaba. One must become trustee. Here everything is done for the children. Baba gives all the advice to you children only. It is not that this house belongs to ShivBaba or Brahma Baba. Everything is for children. You are Brahmin children. There is no question of dispute in this. It is everybody’s combined property. There are so many children. There cannot be partition. Government also cannot do anything. This belongs to the Brahmin children, everyone is an owner. All are children. Someone is poor and someone is rich. Everyone come and live here. It is nobody’s (personal) property. The children will grow into lakhs. Everything is for you sweet children.”Murli dated 14.12.92, pg.3

• “You will get very big halls for service. As for the rest, you need not purchase halls or houses and get them registered. Father says, Will I take anything free of cost, so that I have to repay them heavily. This lake is created with the Pies of children. As for the rest, everybody’s wealth is going to be destroyed. Why should we take such a loan that we have to pay a huge amount in return.” (but at the Brahma Kumari ashram this Godly direction has been foresaken and they have built/purchased palaces and mansions all over the world) – Murli dated 12.7.70

“This is not a registered school of the Government. Government says, “Register your school. But this is a school, a house as well as a spiritual gathering.”- Murli dtd 11.6.71

“We are establishing our Kingdom with our money. We do not have the right to beg. When we do not take anything from our Government itself to establish Kingdom, then how can we take from outsiders? So many children are sitting. They know that all this is going to be destroyed. That is why they invest their money. When we can invest our money then why should we accept money from the prosperous ones? We deposit money with Baba. Baba also helps. There is no question of Income Tax.” - Mu. Dated 14.6.68

“Even then this is a big Pandava Government. It is not possible for it to get registered with the Shudra Government. Baba says that I am Shiv Bhola Bhandari. What help will this poor Government give us? We transform (even) this Government from a cowrie to a diamond. It is not appropriate for us to get ourselves registered with such a poor Government. How can the Pandava Government exist within the Kaurava Government? One must feel intoxicated. (Even) They (Government) must be explained that we serve India with our body, mind and wealth.” Mu. Dated 21.1.73, pg.1

The above Murli points are English translations done by PBKs. If anyone wants the original quotes in Hindi (in Roman script), it could be reproduced here.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 08 Jan 2007

Om Shanti.

The proof of Brahma Baba having died of some heart ailment could be found in the Autobiography of Dada Vishwa Ratan (a senior BK) which is titled "Ek Anokha Anubhav" in Hindi (Page 65-67). I don't know if the English version of the same is available or not.

It mentions how Brahma Baba did not come to the morning class of 18th January, 1969 due to illness. After completing the night class on that day, despite Dadi Kumarka suggesting him not to take the class due to his illness, he asked Vishwaratan Dada to call a doctor. Vishwaratan Dada saw Brahma Baba sometimes placing his hand on his heart and lying on the bed and then sometimes sitting up. Dada Vishwaratan felt that Baba is experiencing pain and feeling restless. By the time the Doctor arrived, Dada Vishwaratan had kept the Coramine injection ready and placed a syringe in boiling water. He thought the doctor may need it. As soon as the doctor saw Brahma Baba he was frightened. He had checked him in the morning, but the situation was not so serious at that time. Dada Vishwaratan found that Baba's left hand was on his heart and the right hand was in the hands of Dadi Kumarka (Dadi Prakashmani). Dadi Kishani (Dadi Kumarka's sister) was sitting behind Baba holding him because he was experiencing more pain in while lying on the bed. Observing the situation, the doctor immediately gave Baba the Coramine injection. But Baba had already left his body.

This clearly proves that Brahma Baba died of a heart ailment. Now what was the cause of the heart ailment is something to be investigated. If Brahma Baba had attained a stage higher than Dadi Janaki (who is supposed to have the most stable mind in the world), then definitely he should not have died of a heart ailment. The above revelations/questions should not mean that I am expressing disregard for Brahma Baba. I have utmost regard for him and my stage is nowhere near the stage that he might have attained. But if he had to leave his body due to the pain/sorrow caused by some among us Brahmin children, then the truth needs to be investigated.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 08 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:The proof of Brahma Baba having died of some heart ailment could be found in the Autobiography of Dada Vishwa Ratan (a senior BK) which is titled "Ek Anokha Anubhav" in Hindi (Page 65-67). I don't know if the English version of the same is available or not.
Thanks Arjun for digging that out.

Is Dada Vishwa Ratan still alive, do you know when the book was written and published? Is the book still available, I would like to get a copy even if in Hindi.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11520
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Post by arjun » 08 Jan 2007

Dear John Bhai,
Om Shanti. Actually, I do not have the original book with me but only the photocopies of the above mentioned pages (65-67), photocopies of which are available as part of the compilation of photocopies of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis containing proofs of advance knowledge being given by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit).

As far as I know, the book must have been published in late 1990s, because it was not available as long as I was a BK. And if it has been published in late 1990s, then it must be still in circulation. It must contain many more important facts related to BK history.
If you want the details, I can contact the AIVV and find out if they have the original book.
OK, now I must go to sleep.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bansy » 08 Jan 2007

The proof of Brahma Baba having died of some heart ailment could be found in the Autobiography of Dada Vishwa Ratan (a senior BK) which is titled "Ek Anokha Anubhav" in Hindi (Page 65-67). I don't know if the English version of the same is available or not.
The English book is "A Unique Experience. Autobiography of Dada Vishwa Ratan. Chapter Six, page 56-57. You may be able get it at the BK shops and I first learnt of it amongst the library books at a BK centre and got mine in Mt Abu. Time to read it again.

Like most BK books, there is no date of print , but it is published and printed in Mt Abu. The translation was done by Sister Rose of Glasgow and BK Kohli in Gurgaon.

At the bottom it says "no part of this book may be printed without the permission of the publisher".

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 08 Jan 2007

Thanks Bansy. Could you give some more details on the book, like when it was written and published etc?

Has anyone read the D Janki Book 'Companion of God'? I notice there's a recommendation on the front cover by SuperYogi Ruby Wax!

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

:lol:

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by mr green » 08 Jan 2007

John wrote:Has anyone read the D Janki Book 'Companion of God'
I have read Companion of God, it is just the usual nice snippets taken from her classes.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Jan 2007

John wrote:Could you give some more details on the book, like when it was written and published etc? Has anyone read the D Janki Book 'Companion of God'?
There is a fairly good supply of BK stuff on Amazon and eBay. Copies of Companion of God start at £0.01.

Arjun, can someone in India dig out copies of the official trust deed? If it was officially recorded, it must be held in some public archive. It would be good to have copies of all the recent trusts and organizations they have registered and read what they are saying this time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest