The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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arjun
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Post by arjun » 10 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:• Is it true that some of the trustees were Brothers or that a Brother was key against the guidance that it was and should be Sisters?
As far as I know, yes, brother(s) is included in the list of trustees.
Arjun, can someone in India dig out copies of the official trust deed? If it was officially recorded, it must be held in some public archive. It would be good to have copies of all the recent trusts and organizations they have registered and read what they are saying this time.
A right to information Act has been enacted by the Indian Government to enable citizens to access information from Government departments. But I am not aware if BKWSU is also bound to provide information under the Act or not. And I am also not sure if the Registrar of Societies, Bombay, who might have registered the World Renewal Trust would provide a copy of the deed. If any member is living in Bombay, they could enquire from the Registrar of Societies if they would be ready to provide this piece of information. It would cost very little to obtain the piece of information.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 11 Jan 2007

This clearly proves that Brahma Baba died of a heart ailment. Now what was the cause of the heart ailment is something to be investigated. If Brahma Baba had attained a stage higher than Dadi Janaki (who is supposed to have the most stable mind in the world), then definitely he should not have died of a heart ailment. The above revelations/questions should not mean that I am expressing disregard for Brahma Baba. I have utmost regard for him and my stage is nowhere near the stage that he might have attained. But if he had to leave his body due to the pain/sorrow caused by some among us Brahmin children, then the truth needs to be investigated.
Om Shanti. My BK friends may be upset with this thread. They may be upset at the Seniors being put in the dock. They may say that Baba has repeatedly said in the Avyakt Vanis that 'past is past', so why dig out the past?

I wish to clarify that the aim of my comments made in this thread is not to put any senior BK in the dock, but to confirm whether any such incident actually happened in the Yagya and whether Brahma Baba died of the pain inflicted upon by some Brahmin children. If that is true it would only prove that ShivBaba played only a mother's role through Brahma Baba and that the Father's role is to be/being played through someone else.

As for putting some one in the dock, I don't believe in maligning anyone. Baba Himself does not criticize anyone by name in the Murlis. So how can we take names? Moreover everyone is responsible for his/her own actions. But truth should not and cannot remain hidden for long. Everything about all the parties that have emerged in the Brahmin family including the PBKs would come out in open some day.

We can at the most prove that Brahma Baba died of a heart ailment or present the details of the deed of the World Renewal Trust, but the actual facts of the case can come out only if any of the BKs wish to do so.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by tinydot » 11 Jan 2007

Proofs from Murlis in support of the above statement:
  • Murli dated 14.12.92, pg.3
    Murli dated 12.7.70
    Murli dtd 11.6.71
    Mu. Dated 14.6.68
    Mu. Dated 21.1.73, pg.1
I strongly agree with all these strategies of running God's government as told in the Murli posted by Arjun.

It's too bad, either the leaders of the BKs did not know how to follow instructions and did not know the long term effects of becoming part of the corrupt government; or they simply intentionally did it as the vicious tendencies crept in.

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Post by arjun » 15 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:It would be good if a copy of the original trust document be scanned and shared with us all and those other references.
• Is it true that some of the trustees were Brothers or that a Brother was key against the guidance that it was and should be Sisters?
Pl. refer the last line of the Avyakt Vani dated 31.10.06, pg.8. While speaking to Dadi Shantamani BapDada says that ''Dadi Shantamani is also among the five birds (one of the original ones from the Trust), and is also in this Trimurti."

The above line proves that there were originally five souls in the Trust, among whom one is Dadi Shantamani. Scanning through the history books of BKs would definitely reveal the remaining names.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

PS: The portion in blue above is also part of the Avyakt Vani, probably added by BKs to make the sentence more clear.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by sreevani » 08 Sep 2011

Om Shanti!

B.K's Registration copy...

http://www.archive.org/details/Brahma_K ... Trust_Deed

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by arjun » 12 Sep 2011

Sister Sreevani,
Om Shanti and thanks for uploading the World Renewal Trust Deed. But are you sure that it consists of just two pages? I assume it must have contained some more pages. Or may be many more changes/pages were added later on to the same.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by sreevani » 20 Sep 2011

Om Shanti Arhun Bhai,
I am not sure.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by T.K » 16 May 2012

is not a sum of Rs. 2000 that was used to create the World Renewal Spiritual Trust, surprisingly small? Also it appears the money was fronted by Ramesh Shah - wasn't as if all BK holdings were put into this trust.
Kind of makes it look benign.
Am I mistaken?

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by fluffy bunny » 16 May 2012

T.K wrote:Kind of makes it look benign. Am I mistaken?
Why would 2000 rupees look benign ... or malevolent for that matter?

Please correct my estimates. In 1969, on rupee was worth 13 British Pence, therefore 2,000 rupees was worth approx £250, which by relative value of £250 would be £3,000 to £7,000.00 today.

Because I don't know your background with regards the BKs, how much you have studied them, nor what you are looking to achieve it is a little difficult for me to know how or what to answer.

The issues that are normally raises are the date 16th Jan 1969 and that news of its establishment would have just reached Lekhraj Kirpalani the day before he died. The PBKs will say it brought upon the heart condition that killed him.

Was Ramesh acting on Lekhraj Kirpalani's instructions ... was his clique usurping power ... or did they sincerely believe they were doing the right thing and taking care of the cult and the small group of women dependent on him?

Yes, the second issue you raise is more poignant ... and perhaps you are stepping towards the greater mysterious of the BKWSU ... were the assets of the Lekhraj Kirpalani/the BKWSU ever assigned over to the trust (and who holds them now)?

I suspect not and, if so, this could be the first second fraud of the organization (the first being the historical revision surrounding the introduction of Shiva post-1950).

In what or whose name were the buildings and donations put and in what or whose name have the buildings and property been put since?

It seems that the financial structure of the BKWSU is an anarchic shambles run on whim and fuelled by unaccounted for cash-cash donations.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by T.K » 17 May 2012

I know a little bit about BKs, but certainly nowhere as much as many on this forum. I am interested in learning about their early history.

When BKs moved to India, their trust from the early days was perhaps still operational. I presume they owned some property in Mt. Abu by 1968. The trust that Ramesh Shah started may have been created to pool in "new" money. I doubt someone may have had the temerity to go against God's directions. That he was a trustee was probably not odd, but it is strange that no Karachi-timers are on it. Other trustees probably were Ramesh's mother, a new BK from Bombay who had joined in 1952 and I don't know who Sheel Indra was. Maybe the seed money was put by these 4 people.
A new trust with a partly amount of Rs. 2000 wasn't exactly questioning Lekhraj Kirpalani's authority - it would seem to me.

Yes, cash donations are always subject to "mismanagement". I have heard some grumblings on that front and also about their subtle "demands" for more. But I am not aware of any criminal activity.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by sita » 17 May 2012

Often on registration it is used the minimum initial amount, prescribed by the law for registration or some minimum amount, because it does not matter and it does not represent the actual amount the trust possesses.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 May 2012

Yes, of course Sita, one would just put a minimum amount into founding such a trust.

It makes not one iota of a difference whether there was 1 rupee in the trust or 100 million dollars, was it instructed by Lekhraj Kirpalani (in accordance with Shrimat) or not?
T.K wrote:When BKs moved to India, their trust from the early days was perhaps still operational.

I presume ... I doubt ... probably ... probably ... not aware ...
For an "academic historian", you make a lot of positive or dismissive assumptions where you should be asking to see proof or evidence in order to 'know', e.g.
  • Was there actually a genuine and operational trust from the early days?
    Did its trustees hand over its assets and wealth to the new trust?
    Did "God" or Lekhraj Kirpalani instruct Ramesh Shah and these others to start this trust?
Is there is a registered entity called the "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University" if not who processes all the various donations (which come in internationally, especially as Dadi Janki travels around) and through which registered entity?

The way is seems to work is they say, "Oh, we're not a religion, we're a university" (but there is not a university) ... then "there is this trust and that trust (e.g. WRST & The RajYoga Education and Research Foundation) ... but we're not a charity, we operate as a family" which means they don't do proper accounts and not everything goes through the books.

Really your starting point should be the BKWSU to see what they have on paper. Sure, there has been property since the 50s ... so whose name is it in?

Dr Nirmala Kajaria is/was the head of the BKWSU in Australia, is not she? You could start by asking her and Ramesh. We would be grateful if you report back their answers here.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by T.K » 17 May 2012

sita wrote:Often on registration it is used the minimum initial amount, prescribed by the law for registration or some minimum amount, because it does not matter and it does not represent the actual amount the trust possesses.
Indeed.
But it is not as if all or any BK holdings were put in it (at most it was Rs 2000 of BK money, if that in the first place).
All I am saying is that on Jan 16, 1969 the formation of this trust, whether with or without the knowledge of Lekhraj Kirpalani, does not seem to be a big enough event to have brought on his heart attack.
Surely he had withstood much bigger upheavals in the past.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by T.K » 17 May 2012

T.K wrote:When BKs moved to India, their trust from the early days was perhaps still operational.
fluffy bunny wrote:I presume ... I doubt ... probably ... probably ... not aware ...
For an "academic historian", you make a lot of positive or dismissive assumptions where you should be asking to see proof or evidence in order to 'know', e.g.
You have inaccurately portrayed my posts. I am not making "assumptions", I am making "conjectures".
Based on the "evidence" I have seen here and elsewhere I am unable to make claims. Further, there is no guarantee that with more evidence I will be able to make claims. I am only able to make conjectures, and hence the language, "..presume, ..doubt, .. perhaps.., probably, .. likely, ..unlikely..", which I take pains to use.
And yes, I am making conjectures based on the data, the data which I cite, BTW. Absolutely!
It is my job to make conjectures and pursue further evidence until they can be proven true or false.
Pursuing history when data is incomplete is seldom precise. But I do it for the thrill of having to extrapolate from data that is available.

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Re: The Founding of the World Renewal Trust

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 May 2012

[quote="T.K"]You have inaccurately portrayed my posts. I am not making "assumptions", I am making "conjectures".
Let me see ...
  • an assumption is a proposition which is being taken for granted ( ... to put it simply "accepted as true without proof")
    a conjecture is a proposition that is thought to be true despite being based on inconclusive evidence.
Gosh ... that is such a hugely different.

No, from my point of view, you are making assumptions (... although, to be fair, I tend to an archaic use of English so you might say "presumption". Presumptions and presumptive).


Why don't you tell us who you are and what you are really doing for whom?

By that I don't mean that I need to know your name, but why you are doing this?

I tend to think a real historian would come across in a more neutral fashion and be far more cautious given the lack of material you have looked at.

But please report back to us once you have spoken to the BKWSU and got their version of events.

Thank you

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