Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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arjun
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Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 23 Oct 2006

Topic was "Lekhraj Kirpalani/Brahma Baba's genuine age"

Om Shanti. Another issue that has been made by controversial by the different versions of BK literature is the age of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj). Most versions say he was 60 in 1936/37. Some versions say fifty/late fifties. PBKs say that it was Sevakram, Brahma Baba's partner who was 60 in 1936 and Brahma Baba attained the age of 60 only around 1947/48. Any details please?
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Oct 2006

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. Another issue that has been made by controversial by the different versions of BK literature is the age of Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj). Most versions say he was 60 in 1936/37. Some versions say fifty/late fifties. PBKs say that it was Sevakram, Brahma Baba's partner who was 60 in 1936 and Brahma Baba attained the age of 60 only around 1947/48.
In India, did the Government keep official records of births and deaths back in the 1890s? I would have thought that the British brought that in and it would have been a simple matter of public records. There must still be some Kirpalani family that have not joined the BKs yet to tell the truth.

If what you are suggesting is that the BKWSU has doctored Lekhraj Kirpalani's date of birth to fit in with the Murlis, that would be amazing ... ! It would utterly condemn them. What are your references for the 1947/48 date?

The thing is, I don't think the BKWSU cares if they lie any more. Their PR is constantly distorting the truth, e.g. self-professed "senior faculty members" stating BK Raja Yoga is "ancient" or "hundreds of years old" when it could only started after 1936 or 7.

My only fear about this is that the BKWSU will use it as an excuse to put the date of Destruction back even further!

End of the World in 2048 anyone?

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Lekhraj Kirpalani/Brahma Baba's genuine age

Post by john » 10 Dec 2006

Is there any proof of Brahma Baba's age?

Is it true that he was 60 in 1937 or was he 60 in 1947.

BKs say he was 60, whilst PBKs say he was 50 in 1937. In the Murlis it says Shiva enters Brahma at the retirement age, which was 60. Which if Brahma was 60 in 1947, could mean Shiva only started using him as a Chariot from 1947.

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Post by arjun » 12 Dec 2006

John wrote:Is there any proof of Brahma Babas age?

Is it true that he was 60 in 1937 or was he 60 in 1947.
Om Shanti. I have a photocopy of an article published in the Hindi BK Magazine 'Gyanamrit' dated February, 1986 wherein it has been mentioned that Brahma Baba's age was 50 years in 1936. I quote:

"Aakhirkaar vah samay bi aa gayaa jab unhay satyataa ka bodh hua. Unhay san 1936 may, jabki unki 50 varsh kee aayu thi, anek divya saakshaatkaar huay jinmay unhonay dekha ki is shataabdi kay ant tak swarnim yug kee sthaapana hogi tatha is say pehley is tamopradhaan Kaliyugi srishti ka mahavinaash hoga."

The approximate English translation is like this:

"Finally that time also arrived when he realized the truth. In 1936, when he was 50 years old, he had many divine visions, wherein he saw that the Golden Age would get established by the end of this century and before that this degraded Iron-Aged world would undergo mega-destruction."

If any BK has the copy of this magazine they can corroborate the above fact before we lose this proof also.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 13 Dec 2006

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. I have a photocopy of an article published in the Hindi BK Magazine 'Gyanamrit' dated February, 1986 wherein it has been mentioned that Brahma Baba's age was 50 years in 1936. I quote:
Thank you ArjunBhai. So the BKs themselves published his age as 50 in 1936.
  • Is it known when they decided to change Lekhraj Kirpalani age to 60 in 1936?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

As seen on one of the BKs Centre Websites
The Founder - Brahma Baba

On a physical level, he was a man of stature, with soft white hair, a well-formed forehead and prominent cheekbones. On a spiritual level, his presence was soothing and gentle, and from his eyes emanated wisdom, understanding, compassion and strength.

Born in 1876 into a humble home, and the son of a village schoolmaster, Brahma Baba was brought up within the disciplines of the Hindu tradition. He, however did not follow in his Father’s footsteps and instead entered the jewelry business, earning a considerable fortune as a diamond trader. As a businessman, he maintained a highly respectable position within the local community and was known for his philanthropic acts.

He had an inherent ability to cope with change. At the age of 60, when most of his colleagues were planning their retirement, Brahma Baba entered into the most active and fascinating phase of his life.

In 1936, over a period of several months, he felt the need to invest more time in quiet reflection and solitude. Then one day, while in a meditative state, he felt a warm flow of energy surrounding him, filling him with light and exposing him to a series of powerful visions. These visions continued periodically over several months giving new insights into the innate qualities of human souls, revealing the mysterious entity of God and describing the process of world transformation. The intensity of the message they conveyed was such that Brahma Baba felt impelled to wind up his business and devote himself to understanding the significance and application of this revealed knowledge. The sound of the words ringing in his mind seemed new, yet they felt so true and real.

60 years have passed since Prajapita Brahma received the series of visions. Who could have guessed -- besides those touched by the same visionary experiences -- that the young women he placed at the fore of the institution would now be on the world stage, sharing platforms with political and religious leaders at the highest level, and leading a lifestyle revolution followed by over 600,000 people from all backgrounds of culture and religion, race and society? Or that millions of others would be taking benefit from the teachings, finding empowerment in the present and hope for the future, when loss of integrity in human hearts and minds has plunged so many into despair?

The living skills that he taught have stood the test of time. The young women that he put to the fore, now in their seventies and eighties, have become beacons of love, peace and happiness, in a world increasingly troubled by disordered relationships, greed, addiction, anger and violence.

Brahma Baba left his body in 1969 at the age of 93. The Tower of Peace s tands as a tribute to the invincible spirit of an ordinary human being who achieved greatness by rising up to the challenge of the deeper truths of life

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Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. I have a photocopy of an article published in the Hindi BK Magazine 'Gyanamrit' dated February, 1986 wherein it has been mentioned that Brahma Baba's age was 50 years in 1936. I quote:
So the BKs themselves published his age as 50 in 1936. Is it known when they decided to change Dada Lekhraj age to 60 in 1936?

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Post by john » 08 Jan 2007

Thank you Abrahma.

There is controversy over whether Brahma Baba was in fact 60 in 1936 as the BKs claim.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Jan 2007

Just found this via: http://www.britain.tv/wikipedia.php?tit ... _beginning

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1937 Dada Lekhraj had a vision of great suffering through war, natural and technological disaster. A later vision revealed the world in a state of paradise, where people and animals lived in a state of abundance, perfection and absolute joy. Dada Lekhraj had a further experience of a being of great power, love and knowledge entering him and speaking through his body. He gradually understood this being to be the Supreme Soul, God. After these life-altering experiences, Dada Lekhraj made the decision to sell his jewellery business and to live a life of purity, simplicity and meditation. ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that something could have gotten lost in translation but one reading of the above is that Dada Lekhraj 'eventually arrived at the understanding' (by his own self??) i.e HE WAS NOT TOLD ... by that being of great power, love and knowledge... .

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Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Jan 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:As seen on one of the BKs Centre Websites

The honest truth is, you cant trust an official BK website, either to state known facts or to tell the truth. Its a terrible shame, or a terrible sham, which ever way you would have it. Its all airbrushed up and out. This is my frustration. On a simple level they skip his start into business at a village level in groceries ... Then, like the story of Jesus, they skip over they huge section part of his life ... Then they go on about "Diamond trader" - woohoo! - which is different from jeweller, was it one or the other?
  • Has no BK ever questioned the ethics of the diamond trade both in the manner diamonds are mined, where the money required to purchase them, the false cartel monopolies, the mostly useless vanity of them? (South Africa, slavery, the Indian's role in Apartheid, De Beers etc). What is so woohoo about diamonds? Oh, I forgot ... it is the money and such famous, important royalty. How did these royalty get their money to spend it on such vanity when their subjects lived in squalor and abject poverty.
BTW, there are pictures of the place where Lekhraj Kirpalani had his shop if no one has ever pointed it out to you before, here. I will leave it to yourself to decide.
  • Ditto, where are the records of all these great acts of philanthropy that he was meant to have done?
I am sorry but it is the usual bullsh** repeated ad nauseum. The truth actually might be more interesting. With those huge movie star sized posters they make now, they are re-marketing Lekhraj Kirpalani as the archetypal saint ...

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Brahma Baba's age at the (alleged) incarnation of Shiva

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Mar 2007

We discussed before the age of Lekhraj Kirapalani on the (alleged) incarnation of Shiva before. I state allegedly because other documentation suggests that the BKWSU history has been largely fabricated as the more original Murlis suggest.

As the Brahmakumaris have entered the world's media, they have had to fix in concrete an "official" version of their history and repeat this ad nauseum, which has then been repeated by so called experts as well. It is not a true history.

One of the main contentions that the PBKs have brought up is that the Murli states that God entered the one who is to be called Prajapita Brahma at the age of 60 years; and that Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60. Well, it seems to be true.

This is from a Brahmakumari book published in a more 'slightly' innocent time, around the 1980s. It states that he was 55, only may be 60. This is a bit strange. Surely they knew. His son and daughter, and may be wife were around.

Not that anyone cares really, his pictures and the made up history seem to have sufficient magical qualities on their own.

Image

I do not have a copy of Adi Dev beside me, and so I can remember how the story is told there, but it goes on to talk about how, "in the garden of a friend in Varanasi, he had a vision of the self-luminous orb of Light, i.e., of Shiva, the Supreme Soul ..." then speaking of his going to meet his partner in Calcutta after which it states, "A few days after the vision was vouchsafe to him ..." without actually saying who vouchsafed it.

This is from "Brahma Baba-The Harbinger of New Age' by PBKIVV Mount Abu.

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Post by john » 21 Mar 2007

Great stuff. Even then they were edging the bets towards 60.
  • "55 .. I know let's round it up to 60".

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OK, I have got it. Dada Lekhraj's age in 1939.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Mar 2007

As published by the Prajapati Brahma-kumaris as attachment to legal proceedings;

Lekhraj Khubchad Kripalani aged 54 in 1938 - date of birth 1884
  • His son Narian as aged 12, he must be about 80 now if still alive.
    His grandsons, Ghanshamdas and Lachmandas were aged 5 and 6 and must now be about 73-74 now. They must be his daughters children and I guess some of them alive to corroborate events.
See other prior discussion here; Sevak Ram and historical details of the original Om Mandli

OK, it is downhill from here ...
  • • Now, if we accept what Om Radhe wrote and the Prajapati Brahma-kumaris published (and we have no reason not to because she was the number two soul in the world, Eve, and it was part of tense legal proceedings that were making new headlines) the satsangs started in 1932 ... when Lekhraj Kirpalani was.

    That means in 1936 when Shiva was meant to have descended upon him, although there is no apparent mention of it to date, he was 52.
Now, It appears that the BKWSU have shaved 10 years of the life of Lekhraj Kirpalani ... and perhaps Janki Kirpalani?

On the list of Unmarried girls of the Om Mandli, there is a "Janki Metharam Kirpalani" aged 13. Can anyone confirm that this is the member of the SS called 'Dadi Janki'?
  • If it is, it opens up another interesting controversy. How and when did she have a child?
One last side note; This makes sense with the 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation myth that would have put Destruction in the mid-1980s. Just as 1976 was thought to be 100 years after Lekhraj Kirpalani's birth, and hence the date for Destruction, 1985/86 would also have been 100 years after Lekhraj Kirpalani's REAL birth.

(I make an allowance for "1 year" of age out here or there as in real terms it could equate to a few months of a difference on the registration of births.)

Has anyone seen Dadi Janki's passport? I suppose we could always ask immigration services ...

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Post by abrahma kumar » 27 Mar 2007

Now, It appears that the BKWSU have shaved 10 years of the life of Dada Lekhraj ... and perhaps Janki Kirpalani?
I wonder if this is so as to piggy-back off the 'sentiments' attached to the much mentioned age of 60 being that of retirement (referring to Lekhraj of course)?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Mar 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:I wonder if this is so as to piggy-back off the 'sentiments' attached to the much mentioned age of 60 being that of retirement (referring to Lekhraj of course)?
As a valiant PBK will I am sure inform you with quotations soon, the Murli states that God enters a Brahma at the age of 60. The question they ask is, "who is Brahma?". I am not a PBK and so I cannot help you any further on this line.

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