Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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john
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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by john » 27 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:As published by the Prajapati Brahma-Kumaris as attachment to legal proceedings;

Lekhraj Khubchad Kripalani aged 54 in 1939 - date of birth 1885.
Well well here it shows Lekhraj Kirpalani was not at retirement age in 1936, which would mean Shiva entered much later 1945-47.

Lekhraj Kirpalani was given the name Brahma through a trance messenger, who got the name from Avyakt Brahma (time travel). It would be interesting to be able to pin an accurate date as to when the trance messenger got this information.

On a side note, I am steering towards the thinking that the, "red eyes, I am Shiva" episode was a vision received by the person who saw it at the time. I think it was a daughter or daughter-in-law of Brahma that saw it and gave the account.

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Post by bansy » 27 Mar 2007

Some prior discussions about Brahma Baba's age here : Brahma Baba's age

May want to merge the threads.

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Mar 2007

John wrote:On a side note, I am steering towards the thinking that the, "red eyes, I am Shiva" episode was a vision received by the person who saw it at the time. I think it was a daughter or daughter-in-law of Brahma that saw it and gave the account.
Or it is completely fictional, based on some other saintly or Bhakti story a bit. My guess the story of Lekhraj Kirpalani having "Arjun on the field of Kurukshetra-type" visions to keep the Vaishnavites (Krishna worshippers) happy is suspect. Certainly we have blown the published dating right out of the window.

If you can give me names from Adi Dev, I can probably come back with ages and street numbers?
  • Was it Radhka Kishinchand ... number 8 on the "committee" (I do not see mention of a trust anywhere) or Surya Kumari?

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Post by arjun » 27 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:As published by the Prajapati Brahma-Kumaris as attachment to legal proceedings; Lekhraj Khubchad Kripalani aged 54 in 1939 - date of birth 1885
Congratulations for the excellent research. This again vindicates to a great extent the advance knowledge given by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) which says that Brahma Baba was not 60 years old in 1936/37 and that he attained the age of 60 in 1947/48.

It is also believed by the PBKs that Shiv started entering into Dada Lekhraj since 1947/48.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by john » 27 Mar 2007

If you can give me names from Adi Dev, I can probably come back with ages and street numbers? Was it Radhka Kishinchand ... number 8 on the "committee" (I do not see mention of a trust anywhere) or Surya Kumari?
BK Dadi Brijindraji

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Mar 2007

arjun wrote:It is also believed by the PBKs that Shiv started entering into Dada Lekhraj since 1947/48.
I just want to make it clear that I did not actually have re-knowledge of that claim and all facts that I have presented were published by the BKWSU or its pre-cusors.
John wrote:BK Dadi Brijindraji
Brijindra (-ji means great) was a Dada, wasn't he? See; Master pictures
Bansy wrote:Brahma Baba then told Dada to draw the following 8 next to Brahma Baba and Mama : Didi Man Mohini, Dadi Prakashmani, Dada BrijIndra, Dadi Dhyani, Dadi Shantamani, Dadi Brijshanta, Dada Vishwa Kishore, and Dada Vishwa Ratan. 3 Dadis and 1 Dada on each side.

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by john » 27 Mar 2007

Brijindra (-ji means great) was a Dada, wasn't he?
The book says Dadi, I assumed it was female.

I am sure I've read somewhere it was a female relative of Brahma Baba. Soon as I find the relevent bits I'll post them.

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Post by bansy » 27 Mar 2007

Sorry, my typo error it is Dadi Brijshanta.

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Mar 2007

John wrote:Dada Lekhraj was given the name Brahma through a trance messenger, who got the name from Avyakt Brahma (time travel). It would be interesting to be able to pin an accurate date as to when the trance messenger got this information.
This is interesting. I am taking no more in good faith until I see dated evidence but the name Brahma arises very early. Prajapati not Prajapita Brahma though.

I have had no juck with either a 22/3 year old Janki or a Brijshanta. Could it have been a spiritual name? The only daughter-in-law listed is Radhka Kishinchand and no Brijshantas

Can we confirm this Rama Gopaldas Hathiramani is a boy? He is on the Om Mandli management committe of 9. Usual moving target, some BKWSU sources say 8, some say 9; this one lists 9 plus 9 co-opted, equals 18.

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Re: OK, I have got it. Dada Lekraj's age in 1939.

Post by john » 28 Mar 2007

John wrote:BK Dadi Brijindraji
Dadi Brijindra is a given BK name her actual name was Radhika, one of Lekhraj Kirpalani's daughter in law's. In charge of the Brahma Kumaris centre in Bombay.

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Post by freedom » 28 Mar 2007

To ex-l: your posts are so deep and interesting that I am so happy you have so much free time ... They are also funny, and my 'theory' is that they are all true !! Keep posting !! 8)

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Post by mr green » 29 Mar 2007

I am quite sure the name you mention is not Janki, as she did not join at the beginning. She was married and had a child and as far as I know was 21 when she joined up,

Do you not recall all the stories about how she read and re-read the Murlis under the streetlights all night so she could catch up?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Mar 2007

freedom wrote:To ex-l: your posts are so deep and interesting that I am so happy you have so much free time ...
I do not have any free time. My time is very valuable and this is costing me dearly but equally so are these precious revellations. It would be great if others would join and help.
Mr Green wrote:I am quite sure the name you mention is not Janki, as she did not join at the begininng. She was married and had a child and as far as I know was 21 when she joined up,

In 2003, the Brahma Kumaris Information Services Ltd said she was 90. That makes her 94 now. 2007 less 73 means she was 21 in 1934.

The Janki Foundation say their President is 91. Born in 1916. 2007 less 70 equals 1937.
Janki Foundation wrote:Serving for 14 years as the appointed nurse to a 300-strong spiritual community, from 1937-1951, she observed the impact of mental, emotional and spiritual factors on recovering from illness.
Bearing in mind, Om Radhe says the beginning was 1932, this is a legal list is dated 1938/39 and she is apparently not on it.
  • • So when did Janki arrive? Do we have a middle name for her?
There is only one married Janki, aged 37; and then a 15 year old, 13 year old and a 10 year old. The community was around 325, down from the approximately 500, but not everyone stayed at the Mandli. Some came from Hyderabad to Karachi.

So we have another fudge ... Dadi Janki was not "a founding member" nor was it an "enclosed community" as reported elsewhere, which makes it sound like a monastery.

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Lekhraj Kripalani Brahma Baba's genuine age

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Apr 2007

Here is clear evidence of Lekhraj Kripalani Brahma Baba's genuine age

It is from the book published in Om Radhe's name dated 1939. The date of the list of members is 4th July 1938. That means his date of birth was 1884 NOT the 1876 the BKWSU currently state. He was 52 when Shiva allegedly incarnated into him in 1936 ... however there is NO evidence to show that he did and no sense why 1936 was important when the statsangs and retirement started in 1932. It obviously means that his age in 1969 was not 90 as stated either.

I am astounded by this. If the leadership of the BKWSU can lie about this ... lie about the whole Prajapti God Brahma bit ... fudge the difference and cover it all up ... what else are they capable of!?! How can BKs blank this from their minds?

I mean, it is not like fiddling taxes, faking up a false visa, extorting cash from Dadi Janki's bhagats or something. This is meant to be the incarnation of God, the birth of Adam, the Father of Humanity, the Alpha and Omega of Creation etc, the single most important event onthe planet ... How much else can I stress this!?!

If they are not just dishonest and not to be trusted with such heritage, then they are also the most incompetent fudgers (as in Chander writing later, "55 ... let's round that up to 60 to fit the Murli predictions" quoted else where). The one thing about starting to lie is that if you start, you have to be very, very good and intelligent at it, if you want to get away with it.


Image

My other wonder is that if there was also all this perfectly written English from between 1939 to 1949 approximately ... and we are yet to find all the published "Divine Decress" also in English ... then how come it all disappeared and when God Shiva and the Murli finally arrive they are suddenly only in Hindi? Who wrote this stuff and how much else was there in English?

My feeling is that the Murli was originally posted to the Western World in Hindi so that the Senior Sisters could edit and interpret them "on the hoof". My evidence for this is conversation with original Western (and now ex- as they mostly are) BKs who described the early days where the sisters would sit on the Guddhi, read the Murli silently, and then go, "What baba is saying here is ... blah blah blah." That is, not translate but interpreting and cover up.

Especially as the time I am speaking about here is just after the failed 1976 End of the World scenario.

Just as we were never told about the 1976 incident, none of them were told about the failed 1950 End of the World scenario. All the current BKWSU leadership do is bleat out the party line, "God has never given a specific date etc etc etc". Well, I am sorry, he has to within a couple of years.

The Brahma-kumaris believed World Ward II was Destruction too ... and there is no mention of Nuclear Bombs then. That too is a later revision.

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More external proof of BKWSU lies and historical re-writes

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jul 2007

Of course, it also proves other good elements as sound but that old "Lekhraj Kirpalani date of birth issue" and the "Chariot" (medium) not being 60 years old keeps cropping up to haunt the BKWSU ...

This is from; "Struggles and Sorrows The Personal Testimony of a Chief Justice", p 37 to 39. Vikas Publishing House PVT LTD 1984 (IBSN 0-7069-2563-7) by Justice Hardayal Hardy - a leader of the Delhi Bar, Judge then Chief Justice of the High Court. Interestingly enough, also a member of the Theososphical Society in Karachi

I am left wondering if we have found our mysterious scribe, the ghost writer of "Is This Justice"? ... if for no reason other that he is mysteriously not mentioned in the book despite being used to defend Lekhraj Kirpalani for numerous court cases. It turns out that there were numerous court cases not just the one we have all heard about.
A Chief Justice of India wrote:Another case I did involved Dada Lekhraj Kripalani of Hyderabad who owned a jewellery shop in Calcutta. He sold his shop and returned to Hyderabad with approximately Rs 10 lakhs as his assets. He bought a house and settled there. Dada Lekhraj was about 54 years old.

He believed that like Lord Krishna he has a message for humanity. He belonged to the Bhai bund comunity among Hindus in Sind. The Hindus in Sind were divided into two classes, the amils and the Bhai Bunds. The Amils were highly educated, the D.J. Sind College, a co-educational institution belonged to them. In Hyderabad too they had a co-educational college. Most of them resided in Hyderabad and Karachi. A majority of them were in Government service and occupied high posts or were professionals. The Amils in Sind reminded me of Kayasthas in India - highly cultured, polished and educated holding high offices.

The Bhai Bunds did business and were not greatly educated. One hardly found a Bhai bund boy or girl who could matriculate. They were scattered all over the world. They had their parent offices in Hyderabad but they had branches in Singapore, Hong Kong and Bangkok. While the men lived in the branch offices abroad, their women lived in Hyderabad. Once in two years the men would return to Hyderabad and bring a lot of gold and foreign gadgets from abroad. They would not stay for more than a month. The men had their mistresses aboard but their women were expected to live a chaste and moral life.

Dada Lekhraj felt he must do something for these unfortunate women. He founded Om Mandli and surrendered his wealth to the institution. Scores of women joined the Om Mandli and contributed their wealth to this institution. Dada Lekhraj preached the Bhagavad Gita and preformed Ras Lila with them. The Ras Lila became very popular. Dada's house became the headquarters of Om Mandli. Many women left their homes and resided there along with Dada Lekhraj's family. Dada Lekhraj, his wife and grown son and daughter lived in the same house, which indicated that Lekhraj could not have any immoral relations with the women living in that hosue. Soon many cases of kidnapping and abduction were filed against Lekhraj by the families of these women.

The magistrates in Hyderabad issued summons against him. Parmanand Kundanmal asked me to go to Hyderabad, meet Dada Lekhraj and appear for him in the cases. I went and stayed with Dada Lekhraj. I could have stayed in a hotel or in the house of Hiranand Kundanmal, but I wanted to meet Dada Lekhraj and see things for myself. Om Radhe, young unmarried woman was in charge of the organisation. She was a talented girl and I have seldom seen so much wisdom and virtue as I found in her.

My contacts with Dada Lekhraj were equaly profitable. His face indicated his character - a man like him could not be lecherous. His knowledge of the religion was not very deep - even his grasp of the Bhagvad Gita was not something that would impress many educated and intelligent men but he knew the basic teachings and could explain them to the uneducated Bania women.

I appeared for him in one of the cases where the charge was of kidnapping and abduction. I requested the magistrate that he should visit the premises of Om Mandli and if he did not agree with the way I summed up the conduct of Dada Lekhraj, he could summon the accused and take steps against him. The magistrate agreed and was fully convinced. Dada Lekhraj did not appear in any case and in course of time all the cases were dropped.

I remember the case of Sadhuram Tolani, a rich merchant doing business in Nigeria. His wife had become a follower of Dada Lekhraj. He came to see me when I was appearing in another case at Hyderabad and complained to me. I asked him to go to Dada Lekhraj and meet his wife. He came in contact with Dada Lekhraj and thereafter was a changed man. Like his wife he too became a follower of Dada Lekhraj.

When people found that criminal cases were not going to help them they approached Mukhi Manghamal, who was on friendly terms with Sir Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah. The Government of Sind issued a directive under the criminal law amendment act declaring Om Mandli to be an unlawful association. Parmanand Kundanmal and I made a representation to the Government of Sind. Sir Ghulam told Parmanand that if Dada Lekhraj left Hyderabad no action would be taken against Om Mandli, Dada Lekhraj and his followers in the institution.

Dada Lekhraj left Hyderabad, took up ahouse on rent at Clifton where he carried on the activities of the institution. It was said that every night after twelve Dada Lekhraj and the inmates of the house performed Ras Lila on the sea-beach.

After partition the instution shifted to Mount Abu in Rajasthan. Apparently it changed its name, and is no longer called Om Mandli. I lost contact with the institution after the partition.

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